school me on the stimulus plan...vol.they just reached an agreement

Originally Posted by Crumbs

Originally Posted by Barack 0drama

Originally Posted by MILLION DOLLAR STACKS

WHEN WE GETTIN DAT MONAAAAY!?
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I think blink said we ain't gettin no check...
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nope no checks for us
sick.gif
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Nelson confirmed that tax breaks for workers that had been set at $1,000 per family or $500 per individual would be scaled back to $800 per family and $400per individual.

Uh yeah we are....
eyes.gif
 
With all due respect to the "economists" on NT, taking what y'all say as law would be just asludicrous as taking mental health advice from an NT'er that graduated with a degree in psychology. I mean yeah they'd probably have some interestinginsights to ponder, but not an end all be all as far as information goes.
 
Well we could have a great thread on FDR and his policies. I'll just say that it wasn't smooth sailing in the beginning, and II really helped out withjumpstarting the economy and getting things rolling
 
Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

free market capitalism + limited govt ftw

it worked perfectly. would have prevented this crisis.

the checks and balances are gone.
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You can't tell this to Democrats.

We know Free Market Capitalism works, it's proven, they know it too. Even as recently with the Bush Tax Cuts in 2003, in which the Gov't was collecting big revenues until the end of Fiscal Year 2007.


They just want to control the money and peoples lives, it's that simple.
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I'm not a virtuoso in all this technical and financial stuff, but i do know a bit about "cycles" and "balances" sothat's how I will try and explain things.

Everything in our world runs in cycles. This is simply because, cycles establish and maintain "dynamics of equilibrium" which serve to balance andmaintain a peaceful and functional order of things.

Even the human body, at every structural level, depends on this equilibrium. You know what happens when the equilibrium is in flux--you get sick.
That's all "sickness" is--the deregulation of your internal and external equilibrium by some biological deviant.

The point is, there NEEDS to be an equilibrium or things will ALWAYS go bad. Always!!

Now think of the human body as a country, and government as the equilibrium. Or if you want to look at things on a global scale, think of the "world"as the body and each individual country as organs within this body. The biggest organs (Europe, US, Japan...etc) play much more of a vital role in this bodythan the minor organs (3rd world countries) in the body. Ultimately however, each organ is a necessary part of the functional whole. The government in each ofthese countries (organs) is still the equilibrium that serves to keep things going...functioning smoothly.

Now focusing in on the US (big important organ), our government is made up of two polar factions--the DEMOCRATS and the REPUBLICANS. These two groups are trulypolar in the sense that they are founded on very different beliefs and ruling styles. Among the differences, but only those pertaining to this crisis,Democrats believe that the government must have an active hand in the regulation of market, whereas Republicans feel that the government should have less of arole in the regulation of the government.

This dynamic is cool because each ruling party serves to balance the other out--they essentially create the equilibrium that is needed for a properlyfunctioning country (body/organ).

Guess what though, the US is bloated with Cancer. This country is bloated with a foul miasma because of the bad credit it's produced. And do you know whythe US (this body/this organ) is sick--look no further than the stupid government.

The stupid conservatives and the idiotic liberals, rather than working together to maintain a healthy equilibrium, which results in a healthy organ/body, theyhave spent the last several election cycles dismembering and deregulating the equilibrium.

Stupid republicans (no offense to anyone in here) claim that "free market capitalism" in conjunction with limited government is the key.NOOOOOOOO...that's actually horribly wrong. Believe it or not, free market capitalism is what got us into this mess. Capitalism is all about MONEY, andguess what, the capitalistic vultures will always explore any means that ensures the maximization of profits and cashlow, with no regard to anything else.THAT'S capitalism--it's all about money.

With this kind of a system, you need to have significant government oversight to make sure things dont run a mock. Free market capitalism must be inconjunction with increased, but not interferring, government oversight in order for the right equilibrium to be reached and maintained.

Of course, this now brings us back to our incompetent DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICANS because each tries to outdo each other with ever more risque policy additionsand subtractions. Like Yayo said, the checks and balances are gone, and it's the Republicans fault considering their style of "limitedgovernment" was antithetical to the measures that were necesary to keep the Financial (Credit) markets in check, just as it's the Democrats faultbecause now, Obama's and his cronies will overregulate the entire system with a fake remedies (stupid bailout funds) further impeding recovery of thecountry, and arguably, making things worse...

Republicans need to understand that you need government oversight to establish and maintain an equilibrium, just as Democrats need to understand that thecancer must be purged from the system, naturally (which will rightfully take years), than trying to pump in a fuax cure in the form of bailouts which willdefinitely present newer problems in the future.

This problem was caused by BOTH political groups and the sooner y'all realize that, and hopefully they as well, the quicker this country will purge itselfof the foul miasma that is the credit crises. It's that simple. Stop the blame game because seriously, the state of USA gov't is horrible...

It's quite funny when you think about it--Thomas Jefferson (I believe), one of this country's founding fathers, warned about the dangers associatedwith political groups and government almost as though he could foresee this event. Dude definitely knew what he was talking about...

...
 
It's quite funny when you think about it--Thomas Jefferson (I believe), one of this country's founding fathers, warned about the dangers associated with political groups and government almost as though he could foresee this event. Dude definitely knew what he was talking about...


It was Washington, talked about it during his presidency and warned again in his farewell address. Nobody listened, but man George was the best by far. Wewill never see someone with his character, restraint, and influence ever again
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Terrible bill.

Well Obama is certainly sealing his fate.....

Either....

A. It SOMEHOW works........ and he'll be elected again in 2012

or

B. It fails........ and a Republican is back in office in 2012
 
Originally Posted by dmxfury

It's quite funny when you think about it--Thomas Jefferson (I believe), one of this country's founding fathers, warned about the dangers associated with political groups and government almost as though he could foresee this event. Dude definitely knew what he was talking about...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It was Washington, talked about it during his presidency and warned again in his farewell address. Nobody listened, but man George was the best by far. We will never see someone with his character, restraint, and influence ever again

Ohh my bad...but yeah, those guys def. knew what a country was about.

A democracy (
eyes.gif
) was always about serving the people--helping each otherout because that's what being human is all about. That's why we established societies and that's what makes us "higher" organisms.

But noooo, not these dudes running about in D.C nowadays. These cats aint about none of that. It' all about getting ahead and getting more money...fick thenext man...

smh.gif
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by Dey Know Yayo

free market capitalism + limited govt ftw

it worked perfectly. would have prevented this crisis.

the checks and balances are gone.
Click to expand...


You can't tell this to Democrats.

We know Free Market Capitalism works, it's proven, they know it too. Even as recently with the Bush Tax Cuts in 2003, in which the Gov't was collecting big revenues until the end of Fiscal Year 2007.


They just want to control the money and peoples lives, it's that simple.
Click to expand...
I'm not a virtuoso in all this technical and financial stuff, but i do know a bit about "cycles" and "balances" so that's how I will try and explain things.

Everything in our world runs in cycles. This is simply because, cycles establish and maintain "dynamics of equilibrium" which serve to balance and maintain a peaceful and functional order of things.

Even the human body, at every structural level, depends on this equilibrium. You know what happens when the equilibrium is in flux--you get sick.
That's all "sickness" is--the deregulation of your internal and external equilibrium by some biological deviant.

The point is, there NEEDS to be an equilibrium or things will ALWAYS go bad. Always!!

Now think of the human body as a country, and government as the equilibrium. Or if you want to look at things on a global scale, think of the "world" as the body and each individual country as organs within this body. The biggest organs (Europe, US, Japan...etc) play much more of a vital role in this body than the minor organs (3rd world countries) in the body. Ultimately however, each organ is a necessary part of the functional whole. The government in each of these countries (organs) is still the equilibrium that serves to keep things going...functioning smoothly.

Now focusing in on the US (big important organ), our government is made up of two polar factions--the DEMOCRATS and the REPUBLICANS. These two groups are truly polar in the sense that they are founded on very different beliefs and ruling styles. Among the differences, but only those pertaining to this crisis, Democrats believe that the government must have an active hand in the regulation of market, whereas Republicans feel that the government should have less of a role in the regulation of the government.

This dynamic is cool because each ruling party serves to balance the other out--they essentially create the equilibrium that is needed for a properly functioning country (body/organ).

Guess what though, the US is bloated with Cancer. This country is bloated with a foul miasma because of the bad credit it's produced. And do you know why the US (this body/this organ) is sick--look no further than the stupid government.

The stupid conservatives and the idiotic liberals, rather than working together to maintain a healthy equilibrium, which results in a healthy organ/body, they have spent the last several election cycles dismembering and deregulating the equilibrium.

Stupid republicans (no offense to anyone in here) claim that "free market capitalism" in conjunction with limited government is the key. NOOOOOOOO...that's actually horribly wrong. Believe it or not, free market capitalism is what got us into this mess. Capitalism is all about MONEY, and guess what, the capitalistic vultures will always explore any means that ensures the maximization of profits and cashlow, with no regard to anything else. THAT'S capitalism--it's all about money.

With this kind of a system, you need to have significant government oversight to make sure things dont run a mock. Free market capitalism must be in conjunction with increased, but not interferring, government oversight in order for the right equilibrium to be reached and maintained.

Of course, this now brings us back to our incompetent DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICANS because each tries to outdo each other with ever more risque policy additions and subtractions. Like Yayo said, the checks and balances are gone, and it's the Republicans fault considering their style of "limited government" was antithetical to the measures that were necesary to keep the Financial (Credit) markets in check, just as it's the Democrats fault because now, Obama's and his cronies will overregulate the entire system with a fake remedies (stupid bailout funds) further impeding recovery of the country, and arguably, making things worse...

Republicans need to understand that you need government oversight to establish and maintain an equilibrium, just as Democrats need to understand that the cancer must be purged from the system, naturally (which will rightfully take years), than trying to pump in a fuax cure in the form of bailouts which will definitely present newer problems in the future.

This problem was caused by BOTH political groups and the sooner y'all realize that, and hopefully they as well, the quicker this country will purge itself of the foul miasma that is the credit crises. It's that simple. Stop the blame game because seriously, the state of USA gov't is horrible...

It's quite funny when you think about it--Thomas Jefferson (I believe), one of this country's founding fathers, warned about the dangers associated with political groups and government almost as though he could foresee this event. Dude definitely knew what he was talking about...

...
Click to expand...

Very well put, sir. A prime example of why we would probably be much better off with an independant or libertarian in power. The fact that there are nolonger checks and balances is right on. The government in this country is a complete embarassment to everyone who lives here. I am deathly afraid of whatwill eventually happen when social security , medicare, etc. go completely bankrupt because you can bet the idiots that run the country will not even attemptto do anything until its already too late.
 
A democracy (
eyes.gif
) was always about serving the people--helping each other out because that's what being human is all about. That's why we established societies and that's what makes us "higher" organisms.

But noooo, not these dudes running about in D.C nowadays. These cats aint about none of that. It' all about getting ahead and getting more money...fick the next man...
Exactly, hence why I won't ever associate with a political party. They all suck
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Originally Posted by TBONE95860

Terrible bill.

Well Obama is certainly sealing his fate.....

Either....

A. It SOMEHOW works........ and he'll be elected again in 2012

or

B. It fails........ and a Republican is back in office in 2012
Click to expand...

indifferent.gif
.. please explain why its terrible.


Stimulus bill : injecting money into economy in a bottom up direction, creates jobs and businesses will thrive.

Well i think it a really good bill. anybody else agree?
 
Originally Posted by dmxfury

A democracy (
eyes.gif
) was always about serving the people--helping each other out because that's what being human is all about. That's why we established societies and that's what makes us "higher" organisms.

But noooo, not these dudes running about in D.C nowadays. These cats aint about none of that. It' all about getting ahead and getting more money...fick the next man...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Exactly, hence why I won't ever associate with a political party. They all suck

AMEN to that...I'll vote when a "regular" American runs for office--one who actually cares about me, and is truly a representative of the"proletariat"...
 
Originally Posted by kidUFC

since we arent getting any checks.. how will we get paid?

less tax cuts on our check? if so how much less?
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From Yahoo
The president's signature tax cut was preserved - a break for millions of lower- and middle-income taxpayers of $400 per individual and$800 per couple. That's less than the $500 and $1,000 the White House originally sought, although officials said it would mean an estimated $13 perweek extra per paycheck
 
indifferent.gif
.. please explain why its terrible.


Stimulus bill : injecting money into economy in a bottom up direction, creates jobs and businesses will thrive.

Well i think it a really good bill. anybody else agree?
See earlier responses and search original stimulus post. Hey, I hope it works, I would love for us to pull out of this downturn quickly. I justhave serious doubts about this course of action. But we shall see
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it's impossible for it to work. unless the government produced $700 billion worth of something and decided to sell it all for the money to give to thepeople, it cant work.
 
Stimulus will work, the new bailout won't (SMH @ the bailout)... But Super you are on the ball on alot. I don't believe in deregulation or overregulation of the market I also think there should be an equilibrium. But out of the two regulation is more necessary and what Obama has proposed isn'tover regulation of the financial sector.. People were complaining about the pay caps of executives, you know why it isn't over regulation because we ownthe companies now until they pay us off. In business when you become a principle investor you are in part the owner and get say in how the company is run,unless you invest and cede your authority to someone else.. It is not as if we are telling companies who are not asking for money and are doing fine to imposepay caps.. Also take into account these executives ran companies into the ground..

But anyways we cannot let the market heal itself at this point. If it was a bump in the road we could let it heal itself but this is like a big pothole that weran over and popped two tires we have got to act if we don't it will get worse and to the point it will be so bad it will be bedlum for this country.Letting markets heal takes closer to a decade than it doesn't so imagine if we let it heal with hardly any action or just tax cuts as a certain partysuggested we would be absolutely done for within a few years..Not our country but our people would...

Also those who say in 3 weeks Obama ruined his presidency (Fede) we know you want Obama to fail but based on public perception he is 3x more liked than Bush,so in the country perception he is doing very well. Also TBone you may be right if we are not any more well off as a country a Republican could win in 2012 butpeople are watching the republicans devalue theirselves quicker than you in your own perception think Obama is.. Polls have stated Dems in the Senate are 2xmore popular than Republicans and are 2x better handling the economy. Where as Obama is almost 2x better popularity and helping the economy as Dems in Senate..

Also regardless of if it is just political ploy, Bush or McCain would have never done this and he actually looks to be helping the peopleand listening to what they have to say, how many politicians are doing this. This is what democracy is about person states their grivences and politicianlistens. Also he is giving people hope (may be overboard hope) but it is needed considering the gloom of the country


He is trying to actually help and listen to people and it has all been cheap political gain to see him fall apart and fail.. Stop bickering and be glad someoneis trying to help. He isn't just trying to fix now he is trying to make the future set. With all Obama has set forth he has also indicated that when thestimulus starts to show effects he will restructure his policy to economics again so we have another plan because he knows just as much as everyone thestimulus is just a band aid to a gunshot wound.. But to heal a gunshot wound 1. You must clear the blood first and 2. you can't let the gunshot wound healitself because it will get worse and you will die.
 
Originally Posted by dmxfury

A democracy (
eyes.gif
) was always about serving the people--helping each other out because that's what being human is all about. That's why we established societies and that's what makes us "higher" organisms.

But noooo, not these dudes running about in D.C nowadays. These cats aint about none of that. It' all about getting ahead and getting more money...fick the next man...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Exactly, hence why I won't ever associate with a political party. They all suck

so just out of curiosity who did you vote for
 
if the american government wanted to actually help, it would massively cut govt spending and slash tax rates across the board and allow for controlleddeflation. but of course it spends exponentially more, financed by taxpayers through inflation, the hidden tax. obama is no different than every otherpolitician as far as his policies go, self-serving, irrational, and contrary to the founding fathers' ideals.
 
its funny how bad this is gonna turn out ... hopefully, america wakes up and sees the mistake they made in electing not only someone who is inexperienced, butall these idiots in the house and senate as well ...

there hasnt been one person on ANY media outlet that believes this bill will work ... even tim doesnt know if it will lol ... but everyones hiding behind theidea that we "need something NOW" ...

SMMFH!
 
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