sometimes Mos Def should just keep his mouth shut..

Originally Posted by puffishurr

I don't how to quote but SIRIUS, Mos Def said he doesn't follow media's coverage because he doesn't trust them. He's seen the media lie, and he's seen the government take the "guilty til proven innocent mentality." All he asked for was for Hitchens to clarify a point that he was unclear of. In turn, Hitchens began to exploit Mos Def's ignorance to the topic, which Mos Def had already admitted to because he did not follow media's representation of the events.

So instead of politely assisting in Def's understanding, Hitchens decided to verbally assault someone on the show, who happened to be African-American. So yes, I was watching the same thing other rational people saw. I just took a rational approach instead of being a Hitchen's D-Rider like so much of America...and you.

Now to clarify, I don't think that Hitchens did this to suppress Black people, but I do believe that he approached the situation as, "great, we have another ignorant Black man on our panel." So instead of cultivating an environment of learning and knowledge sharing, he decided to press his agenda of almighty knowledge and superiority.
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That's because you're one of those people who, whenever a black person is being criticized, you cry racism.

If you don't follow the news because you don't "trust it", how are you supposed to be informed of world events? Only the most paranoid wouldnot trust any news sources on what they report.
Mos Def was borderline saying that he doesn't even believe that the Taliban has any kind of ill intents, and that he needed to have their videos ofbeheadings translated by a "trustworthy" source for him to understand what they actually represent.
 
not really apropos but all of this reminded me of this quote by Richard Dawkins:

"If you are a religious apologist invited to debate Christopher Hitchens, decline. "
 
Mos Def is a great artist...but why he is ona political debate show. I didn't even watch the video but dude made a fool of himself when he was with CornelWest. I swore he was blazed out his mind or something.
 
Mos Def gets a thumbs up in my book dude is like me I dont believe whatever the media feeds me and his simple question never really got answered and dude justkinda went off on him..........Dudes got my respect
 
Originally Posted by puffishurr

I don't how to quote but SIRIUS, Mos Def said he doesn't follow media's coverage because he doesn't trust them. He's seen the media lie, and he's seen the government take the "guilty til proven innocent mentality." All he asked for was for Hitchens to clarify a point that he was unclear of. In turn, Hitchens began to exploit Mos Def's ignorance to the topic, which Mos Def had already admitted to because he did not follow media's representation of the events.

So instead of politely assisting in Def's understanding, Hitchens decided to verbally assault someone on the show, who happened to be African-American. So yes, I was watching the same thing other rational people saw. I just took a rational approach instead of being a Hitchen's D-Rider like so much of America...and you.

Now to clarify, I don't think that Hitchens did this to suppress Black people, but I do believe that he approached the situation as, "great, we have another ignorant Black man on our panel." So instead of cultivating an environment of learning and knowledge sharing, he decided to press his agenda of almighty knowledge and superiority.
Click to expand...
Great reply. I'm hardly a "Hitchens D-Rider" as you so eloquently stated. His politics are very different from the ones I hold, butI do acknowledge that he has earned his position as an intellectual and political analyst throughout his entire life of being involved in this apect ofliterary journalism. If you can't acknowledge the same, then it simply places you in the equally dumbfounded category as Mos Def belongs to during thisshow.

Let me put it in simpler terms that perhaps might be easier for someone like you to comprehend, ok?

A) Mos Def asks a question
B) Christopher Hitchens answers it
C) Mos Def becomes irrationally deifant and resorts to "Why should I believe it? Just because you said so?"
D) Christopher Hitchens further reinforces his point with more authority
E) Mos Def gets his ego hurt

Now the whole racial aspect that you're bringing up is a totally separate topic that really doesn't apply here unless you're looking to cry wolffor every time someone who happens to be black or otherwise gets told they have no idea what they're talking about by someone who happens to be white.That's just coincidental in this case, but not the driving force or the "agenda" that you're making it to be.

I suggest you try doing some reading first. Pick up some of his books or read some of his articles before you give an opinion about what he may or may notrepresent. Start off with Letters to a Young Contrarian.

Dismissing the behavior and reasoning of Mos Def in this type of setting as benign or something that doesn't play any part in the elevation of the argumentonly makes you look as credible as he did in the video.
 
Chris went at it the wrong way. Def didn't speak his mind CLEARLY.

Bill Mauhr > ___
 
Originally Posted by Methedy24

- He was on (Real Time with Bill Maher) before with Cornell West a few years ago; I thought he was high on something
nerd.gif
, dude had NOOOO self control.



- gotta check this out.
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Yeah I saw that episode..... I was like (gucci) HUH? (gucci)
 
Quite clearly a set-up, and completely unfair. Mos Def, a Muslim, is pitted against two 'intellectual' anti-Islamists.

If producers wanted parity, they would've booked an Islamic political scholar of some sort, not an extremely opinionated music artist.
 
Originally Posted by SIRIUS LEE HANDSOME

Originally Posted by puffishurr

I don't how to quote but SIRIUS, Mos Def said he doesn't follow media's coverage because he doesn't trust them. He's seen the media lie, and he's seen the government take the "guilty til proven innocent mentality." All he asked for was for Hitchens to clarify a point that he was unclear of. In turn, Hitchens began to exploit Mos Def's ignorance to the topic, which Mos Def had already admitted to because he did not follow media's representation of the events.

So instead of politely assisting in Def's understanding, Hitchens decided to verbally assault someone on the show, who happened to be African-American. So yes, I was watching the same thing other rational people saw. I just took a rational approach instead of being a Hitchen's D-Rider like so much of America...and you.

Now to clarify, I don't think that Hitchens did this to suppress Black people, but I do believe that he approached the situation as, "great, we have another ignorant Black man on our panel." So instead of cultivating an environment of learning and knowledge sharing, he decided to press his agenda of almighty knowledge and superiority.
Click to expand...
Great reply. I'm hardly a "Hitchens D-Rider" as you so eloquently stated. His politics are very different from the ones I hold, but I do acknowledge that he has earned his position as an intellectual and political analyst throughout his entire life of being involved in this apect of literary journalism. If you can't acknowledge the same, then it simply places you in the equally dumbfounded category as Mos Def belongs to during this show.

Let me put it in simpler terms that perhaps might be easier for someone like you to comprehend, ok?

A) Mos Def asks a question
B) Christopher Hitchens answers it
C) Mos Def becomes irrationally deifant and resorts to "Why should I believe it? Just because you said so?"
D) Christopher Hitchens further reinforces his point with more authority
E) Mos Def gets his ego hurt

Now the whole racial aspect that you're bringing up is a totally separate topic that really doesn't apply here unless you're looking to cry wolf for every time someone who happens to be black or otherwise gets told they have no idea what they're talking about by someone who happens to be white. That's just coincidental in this case, but not the driving force or the "agenda" that you're making it to be.

I suggest you try doing some reading first. Pick up some of his books or read some of his articles before you give an opinion about what he may or may not represent. Start off with Letters to a Young Contrarian.

Dismissing the behavior and reasoning of Mos Def in this type of setting as benign or something that doesn't play any part in the elevation of the argument only makes you look as credible as he did in the video.
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I don't know about all that. I feel like Hitchens started goin' in on Mos for no reason. Mos was admittedly uneducated on the topic athand and Hitchens kept pressing on that.

BTW, I don't know anything about any of these people outside of Mos Def's discography.

In the end though, I think they both acted foolish because nobody really got to express anything and all it ended up being was people talking too much.
 
Originally Posted by MoeMZA

Quite clearly a set-up, and completely unfair. Mos Def, a Muslim, is pitted against two 'intellectual' anti-Islamists.

If producers wanted parity, they would've booked an Islamic political scholar of some sort, not an extremely opinionated music artist.
Click to expand...
indifferent.gif


1. Mos Def is on there because he has a few projects in the works right now. It was more a publicity venture FOR HIM than anyone.

2. He's been on Maher's show before. He knew what the deal was.

3. His being a muslim has nothing to do with anything here, what are you even talking about? He asked a question. It was answered. He asked the samequestion again, this time stating that he was a misinformed on the subject because he didn't trust the news or any of the panelists opinions on thesetopics but rather chose to come to conclusions himself.

...

3a. Hitchens then jumped on him, and you know what? Rightfully so.
 
So if I haven't seen any of osama's video that makes me what?
Chris is straight ignorant.


That isn't the point here, the point is that Mos Def was on a panel that was to discuss current politics, world affairs, and terrorism (meaning Al-Qaeda inthis discussion) and did not have any opinion on the subject because he has no knowledge of it. If that is the case (which I believe is unacceptable as anAmerican), he should not have said anything, and specifically should not have voiced his conspiracy-based opinion regarding news media, and informationavailable regarding Al-Qaeda. What makes this even more laughable is that Mos was asking a question that after 8 years, he should have already had an answerto. You can't go on such a panel, with one of the most influential and knowledgeable writers/journalists of our time (Hitchens) and ask such a fundamentalquestion that you should have and could have answered on your own if you cared at all about current world affairs. It is one thing to distrust the media anddevelop your own opinions on a subject based on research, it is another to complain about the media and NOT seek an answer because you are too lazy to searchfor it yourself. This is clearly apparent in this video as Mos continues to complain that "he was not told about Al Qaeda's political/religious/etc.goals".


i don' see what Def did wrong. he asked a simple question that he needed for clarification purposes. and then that tool jumped down his throat because Def didn't know any and everything about Al-Qaeda/Taliban/Bin Laden. Not everyone can dedicate their life to researching what's happening in the world. Hence, news programs and newspeople should be their for clarification purposes, not holding the Black Man down.
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The problem is that when Mos asked that question, he was given a couple of answers that, albeit were quite general, were still answers. He combated these because he "doesn't believe the news or people like Hitchens or Rushdie". How can his question be satisfied if one, he does not trust people who are well educated and knowledgeable of the topic, and two, he does not attempt to do his own research into this (if Mos doesn't trust the news, he has had about 8 years to figure out what Al Qaeda is "all about"...
grin.gif
).

There is no need to dedicate your life to researching what's happening in the world (although this isn't a bad idea), but having some idea of world affairs, especially as an American (one of the, if not the most major, targets of Al Qaeda) is crucial.


Mos Def gets a thumbs up in my book dude is like me I dont believe whatever the media feeds me and his simple question never really got answered and dude just kinda went off on him..........Dudes got my respect
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I don't have a problem with people who distrust the media and choose not to believe the news, but simply proclaiming yourself to be such a person will not garner you any respect (or add to your intelligence/knowledge of a subject) unless you yourself decide to understand a specific event without the help of the media.

I am not going to respect a person who comes on such a panel and asks "what are Al Qaeda's political goals?" in 2009, 8 years after 9/11. If you ask such a question, that means you care about the subject and answer, Mos proved to me that he has no interest in this subject as he could have answered this (and a multitude of other related questions) on his own in the last eight years.
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Yall have to see the whole episode to understand how awkard Mos Def was on the show...he talks too much w/o saying anything (and trying too hard to be funny)


me and my girl were frustrated watching it
 
mos def was definitely out of league on this one
he asked, hitchens answers, questions hims and gets upset when hitchens answers him
mos def acted like he never heard of al qaeda

that is what happens when you invite someone that doesnt know much on a particular topic and isnt willing to listen
you know he lost his cool when he said "im from brooklyn"
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by MoeMZA

Quite clearly a set-up, and completely unfair. Mos Def, a Muslim, is pitted against two 'intellectual' anti-Islamists.

If producers wanted parity, they would've booked an Islamic political scholar of some sort, not an extremely opinionated music artist.
Click to expand...
indifferent.gif


1. Mos Def is on there because he has a few projects in the works right now. It was more a publicity venture FOR HIM than anyone.

2. He's been on Maher's show before. He knew what the deal was.

3. His being a muslim has nothing to do with anything here, what are you even talking about? He asked a question. It was answered. He asked the same question again, this time stating that he was a misinformed on the subject because he didn't trust the news or any of the panelists opinions on these topics but rather chose to come to conclusions himself.

...

3a. Hitchens then jumped on him, and you know what? Rightfully so.
Click to expand...

Uh yeah, still was unfair set-up. Were you trying to prove otherwise?

The show's platform is political discourse with a hint of comedy. Where's the entertainment and intellectual value gained when you put MOS DEF withCHRISTOPHER HITCHENS knowing full well that they have completely opposite viewpoints, and more imortantly, completely opposite levels of intellect.

Guests weren't selected by way of raffle bag. Producers knew full well what would eventually take place, and it did.
 
Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

not really apropos but all of this reminded me of this quote by Richard Dawkins:

"If you are a religious apologist invited to debate Christopher Hitchens, decline. "
Click to expand...


Especially if you're trying to defend Islam on an anti-religious (especially anti-Islamic) show hosted by an anti-religious person (who is half-Jewish andtherefore extra anti-Islamic).
 
Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

not really apropos but all of this reminded me of this quote by Richard Dawkins:

"If you are a religious apologist invited to debate Christopher Hitchens, decline. "
Click to expand...


Especially if you're trying to defend Islam on an anti-religious (especially anti-Islamic) show hosted by an anti-religious person (who is half-Jewish and therefore extra anti-Islamic).
Click to expand...
actually, I was thinking more along the lines of "bringing a knife to a gunfight."
 
My take on it was, first off he wasnt listening to what bill or the other two panelists were saying. He had his own thought process and wanted to state what hehad goen on. He just wasnt on point and shoulda sat and listened. On top of that Ive seen boogeyman live 4 times... 3 of times he Was higher then the stars.Man would perform one song for like 13 mins, dance around, start talken to the vip or blacony people he had with him. So he does do a bit extra. is what it is.
 
Originally Posted by MoeMZA

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by MoeMZA

Quite clearly a set-up, and completely unfair. Mos Def, a Muslim, is pitted against two 'intellectual' anti-Islamists.

If producers wanted parity, they would've booked an Islamic political scholar of some sort, not an extremely opinionated music artist.
Click to expand...
indifferent.gif


1. Mos Def is on there because he has a few projects in the works right now. It was more a publicity venture FOR HIM than anyone.

2. He's been on Maher's show before. He knew what the deal was.

3. His being a muslim has nothing to do with anything here, what are you even talking about? He asked a question. It was answered. He asked the same question again, this time stating that he was a misinformed on the subject because he didn't trust the news or any of the panelists opinions on these topics but rather chose to come to conclusions himself.

...

3a. Hitchens then jumped on him, and you know what? Rightfully so.
Click to expand...

Uh yeah, still was unfair set-up. Were you trying to prove otherwise?

The show's platform is political discourse with a hint of comedy. Where's the entertainment and intellectual value gained when you put MOS DEF with CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS knowing full well that they have completely opposite viewpoints, and more imortantly, completely opposite levels of intellect.

Guests weren't selected by way of raffle bag. Producers knew full well what would eventually take place, and it did.
Click to expand...
Ok now i know you didn't watch the episode. mos def had NO viewpoint. I don't know what you're contending...

And again, Mos Def has been on the show before! He knows exactly what goes on there! He knows what the shows guests typically are like. He could havedeclined. No one blindsided him.


Who the @#*% goes on a political show to speak on a topic they know absolutely nothing about. And now you want sympathy for him??
 
Originally Posted by puffishurr

I don't how to quote but SIRIUS, Mos Def said he doesn't follow media's coverage because he doesn't trust them. He's seen the media lie, and he's seen the government take the "guilty til proven innocent mentality." All he asked for was for Hitchens to clarify a point that he was unclear of. In turn, Hitchens began to exploit Mos Def's ignorance to the topic, which Mos Def had already admitted to because he did not follow media's representation of the events.

So instead of politely assisting in Def's understanding, Hitchens decided to verbally assault someone on the show, who happened to be African-American. So yes, I was watching the same thing other rational people saw. I just took a rational approach instead of being a Hitchen's D-Rider like so much of America...and you.

Now to clarify, I don't think that Hitchens did this to suppress Black people, but I do believe that he approached the situation as, "great, we have another ignorant Black man on our panel." So instead of cultivating an environment of learning and knowledge sharing, he decided to press his agenda of almighty knowledge and superiority.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY, you can tell that when he was speaking in that last segment when he said "...let me start" as he rudely interrupted mos def he was thinkng"let me shut this n-word up" and let me start using big words and going into detail that only i would know since its my job to research such thingsand lay it on him and make him feel like he doesnt know jack. mos def >>>>>>>>>>>>>>. chris hitchens

and let the man believe what he wants... people dont go around calling every scientologist "dumb, and stupid" because they believe aliens wil comeand rescue them one day... so dont sit here and tell mos def that he is "stupid" for believing osama is like a mytical FIGURE (which i believe sotoo) since the news has him as this untouchable, unfindable mystery man that releases tapes every few years... sounds like a #+%+%!% comedy movie if you ask me
 
Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by MoeMZA

Originally Posted by Nako XL

Originally Posted by MoeMZA

Quite clearly a set-up, and completely unfair. Mos Def, a Muslim, is pitted against two 'intellectual' anti-Islamists.

If producers wanted parity, they would've booked an Islamic political scholar of some sort, not an extremely opinionated music artist.
Click to expand...
indifferent.gif


1. Mos Def is on there because he has a few projects in the works right now. It was more a publicity venture FOR HIM than anyone.

2. He's been on Maher's show before. He knew what the deal was.

3. His being a muslim has nothing to do with anything here, what are you even talking about? He asked a question. It was answered. He asked the same question again, this time stating that he was a misinformed on the subject because he didn't trust the news or any of the panelists opinions on these topics but rather chose to come to conclusions himself.

...

3a. Hitchens then jumped on him, and you know what? Rightfully so.
Click to expand...

Uh yeah, still was unfair set-up. Were you trying to prove otherwise?

The show's platform is political discourse with a hint of comedy. Where's the entertainment and intellectual value gained when you put MOS DEF with CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS knowing full well that they have completely opposite viewpoints, and more imortantly, completely opposite levels of intellect.

Guests weren't selected by way of raffle bag. Producers knew full well what would eventually take place, and it did.
Click to expand...
Ok now i know you didn't watch the episode. mos def had NO viewpoint. I don't know what you're contending...

And again, Mos Def has been on the show before! He knows exactly what goes on there! He knows what the shows guests typically are like. He could have declined. No one blindsided him.


Who the @#*% goes on a political show to speak on a topic they know absolutely nothing about. And now you want sympathy for him??
Click to expand...

Oh boy.....Not arguing whether MOS DEF presented a viewpoint or not. But the fact that, as you say, Mos Def had NO viewpoint, strenghthens my real argumentthat this is a partial/unfair set-up.

Who cares what Mos Def is expecting by coming on the show, not my point.

Please read carefully.
 
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