the infamous is better than illmatic

Master Zik · Apr 7, 2009

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Average or just good songs for me were:
Give Up The Goods
Up North Trip
Q.U. -- Hectic
Right Back At You
Cradle To The Grave

That's five from me leaving 8 great/classic songs imo. Hell I even count Just Step Prelude as some classic shhh. I overall just don't see this album being better than Illmatic. I find myself bumping it way more.

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Do you smoke crack by any chance?

These tracks get skipped when I bump this album. Thenagain I was never the biggest Mob fan, more so of Hav's beats.

Originally Posted by Harlem On The Rise

Whaddup BhuddaBless... Where the %$@$ you been @ my 'G??... I was thinkin of doin another list...IWW is just the prime example of Nas fans acting like Jay fans... Biggin up an average product only because the name/face on the cover...

Yea man I been on them other sites postin I lurk hereevery now and then just to see how some %%# fell off and these new comedians. No reason for Nas fans to do this(me being one) even w/o this dud you can stillsay he got 3 classics(counting the Lost Tapes). Thing that gets me though is ppl really try to sell this as a wildely accepted classic, that wasn't thecase when it dropped or now.

luigitheking · Apr 7, 2009

Originally Posted by M16

Song for song Illmatic would win, even beat for beat, and no doubt lyrically.

This pretty much sums up why Illmatic is better, regardless of your reasoning for The Infamous being better that stament.

When you compare albums, and you can clearly tell one of the albums has better songs, beats and lyrics, it's the better album.

m16 · Apr 7, 2009

An album has to do more than be a group of individually stand-out songs to be complete. It has to tie-together and create a mood, with each elementcomplementing the other for the big picture to work. So once again, as a COMPLETE album, The Infamous > Illmatic.

luigitheking · Apr 7, 2009

Originally Posted by M16

An album has to do more than be a group of individually stand-out songs to be complete. It has to tie-together and create a mood, with each element complementing the other for the big picture to work. So once again, as a COMPLETE album, The Infamous > Illmatic.

Yeah I get what you're saying and it's not that far fetched of an opinion. I don't know if it's just because I've listened toIllmatic so much but I feel that it blends together brilliantly, with different moods and stories. The overall theme isn't as prevalent as in The Infamous,but to me Illmatic just beats it at everything else.

Illmatic>Infamous in my opinion, but I'm not gonna knock you for this.

m16 · Apr 7, 2009

We can agree to disagree, I have no problem with people calling Illmatic the GOAT; I did too for a long time, and I might again tommorow. I only have a problemwith dudes who refuse to even consider any other point of view when it comes to it.

*puts on It Ain't Hard to Tell*

luigitheking · Apr 7, 2009

Originally Posted by M16

We can agree to disagree, I have no problem with people calling Illmatic the GOAT; I did too for a long time, and I might again tommorow. I only have a problem with dudes who refuse to even consider any other point of view when it comes to it.

*puts on It Ain't Hard to Tell*

Agreed.

My #1 album opinion can never stay the same but Illmatic is most often it. I don't mind if people disagree with my opinions as long as they have validarguments.

No two people can ever agree on everything in music but people just should learn to respect great albums and artists even if they don't like them.

the natural mystic · Apr 7, 2009

Illmatic is the only album better than the Infamous. I can respect that opinion but nah.

illphillip · Apr 8, 2009

Originally Posted by M16

Originally Posted by Dapper D

illphillip wrote:

M16 wrote:
Nas's stories on it are completely unbelievable and he came off as the dude that chilled at his crib getting high just focusing on his rhymes. P and Havoc came off as the grimey dudes they portrayed in their rhymes, the type of dudes you pass by and see chilling in the hood lobby at 3am getting rocks off'; and that's just a testament to how great of an album The Infamous is.

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I disagree with so much of this, I don't know where to begin......but the part quoted above was the most comical. It's so funny how passionate you are about how authentic and believeable Infamous "is" or "sounds" when believeable is the last word I'd use to describe it.

To each his own though. Only on NT is this album worshipped the way it is (kind of goes back to my theory about this being some "fantasy" #!+% for frail dudes). Look at any "intelligent" top album list (if there is such a thing) and you won't see The Infamous anywhere near the top. Great album. Not what y'all make it out to be. Rae + Ghost did it better. Nas. G Rap. Wu. Eric and Ra.

But again, to me it's how dudes who don't live it get to live out their superthug dreams.

Because the dudes that actually do live it don't take that album seriously IMO. How you gon' have halfway crooks talking 'bout "ain't no such thing as halfway crooks". It makes me laugh more than anything.

P talking about "Give Up The Goods"? How many stories have y'all heard about P himself having to give up the goods?

Album is cool on some "Terminator" steez. But as far as authenticity? I mean seriously, how much of what's talked about on The Infamous can y'all relate to? I know there's cats out there living that life for real. But it's like 1% of the population. And even those dudes like to get laid once in a while. All that "killer" %@@* was OD IMO and was done more for entertainment purposes than any realism or authenticity. Gangster $!!# sells. Y'all eat it up.

Hindsight is crasy

...
See u can say that now because everyone and their mother knows that P is soft and took more L's then anyone in history...
But people weren't believing that in 95...
Just take away the image for a minute...
These dudes being fake doesn't stop the infamous from being the most accurate description of street life...
It just tells me that even though they weren't street...they had street $$*@@$ around them...
Hell I bet u if Cormega and Lake made that album and spit the exact same lyrics u would be in here talking about how realistic the album is...

Thank you. This dude is on crack talking about "Rae + Ghost did it better. Nas. G Rap. Wu. Eric and Ra. "

I mean, these are some of my favorite rappers and albums he's talking about, but dude has to lay off the pipe talking about any of these being more realistic or more dark/grimey than The Infamous. Maybe it's just something us NYC 90's heads can better understand.

All those cats did it better. Period. It is why for the most part all of those albums are held in higher regard.

Dog, I'm NY to the fullest. Those projects were far more realistic than The Infamous. Most of those artists were being truer to themselves. Or were atleast pioneers of the whole "tough guy" rap movement. MD were not.

I could give a #%%% about an album being "dark/grimey". Why would I care about that? That's not what I seek in my music. When you actually livein those conditions, you don't need to hear cats rap about it. Especially when they're not even living it. You want to hear about some other %!!#. Onthe flip, if you live in the Burbs, you probably are entranced by all that tough talk.

See, dudes in NY who were up on Hip Hop already knew MD. They were called Poetical Prophets before that. Plus they had already done Juvenile Hell. "PeerPressure" was some real %!!#. Even "Hit It From The Back" was some real %!!#.

So Dapper D, it ain't no "hindsight is crasy". We already knew these cats weren't what they portrayed. You clearly were not aware of this atthe time. So maybe you were buying that whole act. But many of us knew better. These dudes were career rappers, not career criminals. Maybe they didn'tteach that in the class where dudes are getting their "PHD in Hip Hop".

And I don't see it as an accurate description of street life. Street dudes like girls. They still party in the club. They got Baby Mother problems. Cats inthe hood +$+! more than ANYBODY. THAT'S real %!!#. What Mobb did on The Infamous was OD on the killer %!!#. Straight theatrics. Even "rock you in yourface stab your brain with your nose bone" is from a movie. And how y'all even talking about accurate descriptions of street life? M16, what streetsyou be in? What streets you get your "PHD in Hip Hop" from. What street dude would even say such a thing? %!!# is looking more like a GED to meanyway.

Fact is, I rarely see Infamous discussed as a GOAT album. Because it's not. M16, you can say whatever about all your buddies having it up there. Cool. Youcan think you're one of the most knowledgeable rap heads on NT. Cool. But fact is, it's not really in that league. There was a thread on here a whileback about WHY The Infamous wasn't discussed as a GOAT album. That thread was made for a reason. Because it really isn't.

But hey, if you think it is, do you. Maybe Vinnie Paz agrees. And I'm going to quote what LESfamilia said, because the #@*# was dead-on......

But that's the thing, man: Life itself is not that tragic, no matter who you are. I could never take an album (outside of concept albums) seriously without a girl song, or a club song, or some kind of uplifting or nostalgic song on it. That's why I totally agree with illphillip here: The more I think about it, the album sounds like a kid who was an accomplished ballet dancer of diminuitive stature in high school and his withdrawn, bookish counterpart put it together. And they did so in the hopes of evading their seemingly less-than-sordid pasts. I can't really take much of what I hear on the album seriously.

krispacinla · Apr 8, 2009

ILLMATIC > ____________

*Exits thread*

kempattack400 · Apr 8, 2009

illmatic is better BUT......infamous is an underrated album and a lot of people sleep on it when they talk about top 10 rap albums. and to the guy above me, 36Chambers > Illmatic.

daytona 5000 · Apr 8, 2009

They are both equal. I wouldn't take one over the other.

no escapin this · Apr 8, 2009

MB and Infamous Mobb were grimey cats ...

It was the mentality back then anyway .

That album portrayed an attitude that was occuring on the streets of NY @ the time. During the Dinkins Era and during Guilliani`s 1st term .

It represented that time period . Can you take everything literally on an album ? NO , but dudes were crime riddled in their hood .

illphillip · Apr 8, 2009

I had to come back and get this off my chest. I hate the idea of coming off like I'm hating an album that I actually do very much love. Plus P's lockedup, so I shouldn't even be on these rants out of respect.

I just think the perpetuation of violence got too crazy in hip hop. I know it's a violent world. But it's a complex world. And I just felt like themusic focused too much on the violence after a while. To me this album was kind of the epitome of that.

Especially knowing where they came from as longtime rappers. That doesn't mean they were rich and they weren't in the hood. But I didn't believethey were shooters, or stick up kids etc.

I know QB and Infamous Mobb is nothing sweet. And some of those dudes even made records that I dug. Noyd as well. I know it was a violent time. I had a bladeon me 24/7 back then. Box cutters. All that good stuff.

And I get the whole deal that they're representing their hood and their crew. But it just didn't feel like it was them. Like Nore does. Thugged butstill buggin' and having fun. Or even a Mega, who I feel has more balance. Or The Beatnuts, who I know ain't from QB, and could be OD violent but thenbe on some party !%%%. Wu and their Kung Fu !%%%.

As much as I love The Infamous sonically, that always bothered me. How over the top it was. You know the violence in our society perpetuates the violence inthe music, but I do believe it goes both ways. Look how influential rappers are. Kids worship these dudes. Some more than others. But influential nonetheless.Chuck D influenced me in many ways. For a bit there, it was actually cool to be smart, and informed.

I honestly believe that listening to violent music, maybe combined with alcohol etc., can lead to violent behavior. You may think people ain't thatdumb......but they are. So I'm real touchy about excessive violence in music. All the gang !%%% in the music. Violence is not a fun thing. It's tragicby definition. When violence hits close to home, be you agressor or victim, the ending is rarely positive. One dude goes to jail. One goes to the hospital. Orthe morgue. Who won?

If a dude wants to talk about his genuine struggles, in the street, in the pen, I'm all about it. Funny thing is those are the dudes that want to makeparty records. Maino. I dig Saigon. In their own way, they're trying to be positive though. They have that balance. Of positive and negative. Just like anyof us. And I never really got that from MD. Then after a while I just stopped listening.

And when you feel like that's not really them......and they're pushing this image.....to me that can be a dangerous thing. But hey, that's just myhang up.

Incredible album nonetheless. I prefer Illmatic (and several other albums). Even though it's mad short and has maybe one average record. But probablybecause I could relate to Nas more. "World Is Yours" was positive in it's own way. "Memory Lane" and "One Love" wereincredible. He didn't go crazy on the thug !%%%. And if I remember correctly his crew was setting it off at most of their early shows. Again, balance.

I get into this !%%% everytime this album comes up. I need to stop that bull !%%%. Never again. Here endeth the rant.

lesfamilia · Apr 8, 2009

Originally Posted by illphillip

I had to come back and get this off my chest. I hate the idea of coming off like I'm hating an album that I actually do very much love. Plus P's locked up, so I shouldn't even be on these rants out of respect.

I just think the perpetuation of violence got too crazy in hip hop. I know it's a violent world. But it's a complex world. And I just felt like the music focused too much on the violence after a while. To me this album was kind of the epitome of that.

Especially knowing where they came from as longtime rappers. That doesn't mean they were rich and they weren't in the hood. But I didn't believe they were shooters, or stick up kids etc.

I know QB and Infamous Mobb is nothing sweet. And some of those dudes even made records that I dug. Noyd as well. I know it was a violent time. I had a blade on me 24/7 back then. Box cutters. All that good stuff.

And I get the whole deal that they're representing their hood and their crew. But it just didn't feel like it was them. Like Nore does. Thugged but still buggin' and having fun. Or even a Mega, who I feel has more balance. Or The Beatnuts, who I know ain't from QB, and could be OD violent but then be on some party !%%%. Wu and their Kung Fu !%%%.

As much as I love The Infamous sonically, that always bothered me. How over the top it was. You know the violence in our society perpetuates the violence in the music, but I do believe it goes both ways. Look how influential rappers are. Kids worship these dudes. Some more than others. But influential nonetheless. Chuck D influenced me in many ways. For a bit there, it was actually cool to be smart, and informed.

I honestly believe that listening to violent music, maybe combined with alcohol etc., can lead to violent behavior. You may think people ain't that dumb......but they are. So I'm real touchy about excessive violence in music. All the gang !%%% in the music. Violence is not a fun thing. It's tragic by definition. When violence hits close to home, be you agressor or victim, the ending is rarely positive. One dude goes to jail. One goes to the hospital. Or the morgue. Who won?

If a dude wants to talk about his genuine struggles, in the street, in the pen, I'm all about it. Funny thing is those are the dudes that want to make party records. Maino. I dig Saigon. In their own way, they're trying to be positive though. They have that balance. Of positive and negative. Just like any of us. And I never really got that from MD. Then after a while I just stopped listening.

And when you feel like that's not really them......and they're pushing this image.....to me that can be a dangerous thing. But hey, that's just my hang up.

Incredible album nonetheless. I prefer Illmatic (and several other albums). Even though it's mad short and has maybe one average record. But probably because I could relate to Nas more. "World Is Yours" was positive in it's own way. "Memory Lane" and "One Love" were incredible. He didn't go crazy on the thug !%%%. And if I remember correctly his crew was setting it off at most of their early shows. Again, balance.

I get into this !%%% everytime this album comes up. I need to stop that bull !%%%. Never again. Here endeth the rant.

I'm glad somebody that was right there when all of this "doom-and-gloom" in hip-hop was the move can actually tell the truth aboutthe album and where its place in hip-hop, and the overall big picture, is.

Like Phil said, the album was no musical fluke. It was a very calculated collection of some timeless beats and rhymes. Other than that, people shouldn'tbe touting this as one of the greatest hip-hop albums ever. With all due respect to a locked-up P and M.I.A. Havoc, their stories on the album were as real asa two-headed penny.

m16 · Apr 9, 2009

This guy writing essays but making 0 good points at all.

First he says the album isn't good because P and Havoc didn't live it, then he gets his Dr. Phil/Al Sharpton on and says it isn't good because"it's projecting a negative image onto the community"; then he talks about early MD like I'm clueless about it saying "well they alreadyhad 2 good songs!"

Just stop typing, dude thinks throwing in as much garbage to make his response longer will make it look like he has a point.

The Infamous is more cohesive and realistic than anything Nas has ever done in his career. When it comes to the same topics, no other album is even seeing it.

crossisom · Apr 9, 2009

Originally Posted by M16

This guy writing essays but making 0 good points at all.

First he says the album isn't good because P and Havoc didn't live it, then he gets his Dr. Phil/Al Sharpton on and says it isn't good because "it's projecting a negative image onto the community"; then he talks about early MD like I'm clueless about it saying "well they already had 2 good songs!"

Just stop typing, dude thinks throwing in as much garbage to make his response longer will make it look like he has a point.

The Infamous is more cohesive and realistic than anything Nas has ever done in his career. When it comes to the same topics, no other album is even seeing it.

"See now you're being condescending."

If you made this topic to explain the impact of the album instead of comparing it to another, you would have done fine.

m16 · Apr 9, 2009

If you wanna judge albums by really living it than another rapper from QB is the GOAT: Tragedy Khadafi.

I'm his biggest fan on NT, and just about every line he has ever spit has been straight from his experiences, but that's definitely not true.

You think Nas actually lived any of his violent stories on any of his albums ? Using that to judge anything is just ******ed, as long as they don't go sofar as to claim false gang membership like some of these sad excuses for rappers are now.

If anything, the fact that 2 art school students put together something this real makes it even more impressive.

mossman75 · Apr 11, 2009

Man i been listening to this album for the pass couple of days, this album can compete with The Infamous. Nobody ever talks about this album, mad slept on

m16 · Apr 11, 2009

That's one of my favorite albums but nah, it still lacks the overall feel of The Infamous. Dah Shinin' did the idea well but The Infamous took it andran with it till it was perfection.

The Infamous >>>>> The Sun Rises in the East > Dah Shinin'

mossman75 · Apr 11, 2009

^I can respect that, i hate the fact The Source rated Dah Shinin' 3 mics. Since then i never took them serious anymore

m16 · Apr 11, 2009

Yeah the source is a joke. Dah Shinin' isn't 5 mics but blueprint is

noodles · Apr 11, 2009

I've watched from the sidelines for far too long in this thread. M16 said it best, the Ingfamous maintains one mood through out the whole album. An artpainting with more than one theme or mood to it would have to be on two separate canvases. Obviously, while in a cipher meeting with the sensi, at the end ofthe day The Infamous album is responsible for 47.382% of young teens becoming Juvies. The album affected the mind in more ways than the movie Scarface.

unkleluke · Apr 11, 2009

Not far off, but nah. Ill can`t really be touched IMO

ihust1e · Apr 11, 2009

Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan415

Originally Posted by 6 rings MJ

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lol

uter zorker · Apr 11, 2009

M16 - Do you like Nas > Jay ?

If so, we've probably got similar taste...

Illmatic is the complete album, 10 tracks or not...but The Infamous' feel is Top 5...The Purple Tape has that feel, but the rhyme's are too complex forEVERYONE to grab (unlike The Infamous album - which I saw someone mention 47.5958% of youth was affected by

)

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