Am I right to believe that God is also a vengeful god?

Originally Posted by Dr Spaceman

So if you live your life in some isolated tribe unspoiled by the outside world, but you lived a loving and caring life, you will be banished to hell?
Basically, the only ones that are excused are the mentally ill
 
Originally Posted by Stevenzsofly

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Question for everybody in here:

How can GOD be all-knowing, yet people claim that we still have free-will? If GOD knows what's going to happen, then our choices have already been made, somebody explain please
You're trying to relate two very different things here.

Yes GOD is all knowing but what makes you think he is actively influencing our decisions. Our choices have been made by us, not him--YES He's cognizant of them but he has no part in that decision making process--That's free will working...

...
All-knowing meaning that he knows the past, present, and future. If he already knows the future, he already knows what each one of us will do throughout our lives. 20 years ago he knew that we would be having this discussion on Nike Talk. Meaning we already have a set path, meaning we have no free-will. We're just following the path god has already seen.
And this what I think some of y'all are confusing. Sure there's a path--a fate, a destiny--but what makes you think God laid it out foryou...Just because he can see you traversing this path, fate, destiny, doesn't mean He created it...

...
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by kiuyt856

I also have a question for everyone in here, and I'm not trying to troll, I'd really like to know what you think.


I'm assuming we all know a little bit about Ghandi and his philosophy. He practiced non-violence, and through that he was able to help gain Indian Independence and civil rights for his people. He was all about peace and was a genuinely good soul, right? Now do you, most specifically Christians, believe that at this very moment and for the rest of eternity, Ghandi is burning and suffering in hell, right beside people like Hitler, Stalin, and Idi Amin? Regardless of the way he lived his life, do you believe Ghandi deserves that fate because he practiced Hinduism, and never accepted Jesus Christ as his savior?
The real question that should be asked is whether Ghandi got the opportunity to get to know Jesus Christ and develop and affinity for him, clearly not being literal, like he did Hinduism...
He did have an opportunity to know Jesus Christ. He was once quoted as saying "[font=arial,helvetica][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=arial,helvetica]If it weren't for Christians, I'd be a Christian.-- Mahatma Ghandi."

But for the question, if he went to heaven or hell, no christian can answer because we simply aren't God. I cant tell you "OOO, he's in heaven forsure" or " He's in hell. U serious??"
Its all up to God. Only God knows his heart and his true intentions.[/font][/font]
[/font] Who knows, Ghandi could havelived that way for the glory of the world. "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in thesight of God" (Luke 16:15).[font=arial,helvetica][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=arial,helvetica]
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[/font]
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Stevenzsofly

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Question for everybody in here:

How can GOD be all-knowing, yet people claim that we still have free-will? If GOD knows what's going to happen, then our choices have already been made, somebody explain please
You're trying to relate two very different things here.

Yes GOD is all knowing but what makes you think he is actively influencing our decisions. Our choices have been made by us, not him--YES He's cognizant of them but he has no part in that decision making process--That's free will working...

...
All-knowing meaning that he knows the past, present, and future. If he already knows the future, he already knows what each one of us will do throughout our lives. 20 years ago he knew that we would be having this discussion on Nike Talk. Meaning we already have a set path, meaning we have no free-will. We're just following the path god has already seen.
And this what I think some of y'all are confusing. Sure there's a path--a fate, a destiny--but what makes you think God laid it out for you...Just because he can see you traversing this path, fate, destiny, doesn't mean He created it...

...
then who created it...
 
Originally Posted by OGJumpman

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by kiuyt856

I also have a question for everyone in here, and I'm not trying to troll, I'd really like to know what you think.


I'm assuming we all know a little bit about Ghandi and his philosophy. He practiced non-violence, and through that he was able to help gain Indian Independence and civil rights for his people. He was all about peace and was a genuinely good soul, right? Now do you, most specifically Christians, believe that at this very moment and for the rest of eternity, Ghandi is burning and suffering in hell, right beside people like Hitler, Stalin, and Idi Amin? Regardless of the way he lived his life, do you believe Ghandi deserves that fate because he practiced Hinduism, and never accepted Jesus Christ as his savior?
The real question that should be asked is whether Ghandi got the opportunity to get to know Jesus Christ and develop and affinity for him, clearly not being literal, like he did Hinduism...
He did have an opportunity to know Jesus Christ. He was once quoted as saying "[font=arial,helvetica][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=arial,helvetica]If it weren't for Christians, I'd be a Christian.-- Mahatma Ghandi."

But for the question, if he went to heaven or hell, no christian can answer because we simply aren't God. I cant tell you "OOO, he's in heaven for sure" or " He's in hell. U serious??"
Its all up to God. Only God knows his heart and his true intentions.[/font][/font]
[/font] Who knows, Ghandi could have lived that way for the glory of the world. "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15). [font=arial,helvetica][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=arial,helvetica]
[/font][/font]
[/font]

Well actually, he got the opportunity to get to know Christians and the history of man-made Christianity, not necessarily Jesus Christ and what he stood for.

But besides that, everything you said was def. on point in my book. We cant know for sure...no one will but God.

...
 
there is so much more reward in believing.


BUT THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC!!!


I just want to know if God is vengeful.
 
^^ I really doubt that Ghandi did what he did for glory, seeing as he was jailed and harmed many times but continued to protest, but this is all hypotheticalso its hard to say.
But if I'm not mistaken, if someone doesn't accept Jesus Christ, they are doomed to hell. So according to the bible, Ghandi is without a doubt in hellright now. I don't think we can argue about that. My point is, do you believe he deserves that?
 
Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Stevenzsofly

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Question for everybody in here:

How can GOD be all-knowing, yet people claim that we still have free-will? If GOD knows what's going to happen, then our choices have already been made, somebody explain please
You're trying to relate two very different things here.

Yes GOD is all knowing but what makes you think he is actively influencing our decisions. Our choices have been made by us, not him--YES He's cognizant of them but he has no part in that decision making process--That's free will working...

...
All-knowing meaning that he knows the past, present, and future. If he already knows the future, he already knows what each one of us will do throughout our lives. 20 years ago he knew that we would be having this discussion on Nike Talk. Meaning we already have a set path, meaning we have no free-will. We're just following the path god has already seen.
And this what I think some of y'all are confusing. Sure there's a path--a fate, a destiny--but what makes you think God laid it out for you...Just because he can see you traversing this path, fate, destiny, doesn't mean He created it...

...
then who created it...
Maybe Satan...

Heck, maybe, God is in fact, some super advanced human, most likely of a higher yet to be derived species like H0m0superious.

And the only reason he's omniscient and omnipotent is because he has the benefit of all of history behind him and consequently, at his fingertips, sothat's how He know what will happen and if need be, can travel to any point in time to change things...

It's possible...

The real truth--I don't know. And neither will you. You're a 20something year old dude in Miami tryna figure out the grand design of the physical andmetaphysical Universe by questioning a 22 year old student at Uconn...
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
...

There are no real answers in our human world. All you can do is buy some tickets for the final judgment, and hope you get a good seat for the end of theworld...MAYBE that's where and when answers will be provided...

...
 
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by Stevenzsofly

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Question for everybody in here:

How can GOD be all-knowing, yet people claim that we still have free-will? If GOD knows what's going to happen, then our choices have already been made, somebody explain please
You're trying to relate two very different things here.

Yes GOD is all knowing but what makes you think he is actively influencing our decisions. Our choices have been made by us, not him--YES He's cognizant of them but he has no part in that decision making process--That's free will working...

...
All-knowing meaning that he knows the past, present, and future. If he already knows the future, he already knows what each one of us will do throughout our lives. 20 years ago he knew that we would be having this discussion on Nike Talk. Meaning we already have a set path, meaning we have no free-will. We're just following the path god has already seen.
And this what I think some of y'all are confusing. Sure there's a path--a fate, a destiny--but what makes you think God laid it out for you...Just because he can see you traversing this path, fate, destiny, doesn't mean He created it...

...
then who created it...
Maybe Satan...

Heck, maybe, God is in fact, some super advanced human, most likely of a higher yet to be derived species like +$## superious.

And the only reason he's omniscient and omnipotent is because he has the benefit of all of history behind him and consequently, at his fingertips, so that's how He know what will happen and if need be, can travel to any point in time to change things...

It's possible...

The real truth--I don't know. And neither will you. You're a 20something year old dude in Miami tryna figure out the grand design of the physical and metaphysical Universe by questioning a 22 year old student at Uconn...
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
...

There are no real answers in our human world. All you can do is buy some tickets for the final judgment, and hope you get a good seat for the end of the world...MAYBE that's where and when answers will be provided...

...
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
aint that the truth... but i can sort of get a handle on the whole free will& all knowing part... But what really gets me is that i honestly cant imagine God denying someone entry into heaven just because they were of a differentfaith. I just cant rock with that at all, but i had a thought about that:

Im pretty sure that we agree that the majority of religions pray to the same being, God/Allah/whatever else he's called... I personally think that there isonly one heaven & it is for all religions, not just any one specific religion... there are just many different religions that can get you there if practiceproperly & regularly
 
Of course, the God in the monotheistic faiths is vengeful. If you read the Old Testament, you can find tons of references to vengeful acts by God. Then, withthe New Testament it was made seem like it was more about a loving and compassionate type of God. In Islam, you can read a lot of vengeful type of referencesin there too when reffering to God. With these three faiths, there are certain characteristics acquired to God and why he evolved to be that way all due to theway the people created him to be and portrayed him at the time.
 
Christianity was the first religion to really go that love and compassion route (ironically). The rest, god been vengeful.
 
Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Question for everybody in here:

How can GOD be all-knowing, yet people claim that we still have free-will? If GOD knows what's going to happen, then our choices have already been made, somebody explain please
You're trying to relate two very different things here.

Yes GOD is all knowing but what makes you think he is actively influencing our decisions. Our choices have been made by us, not him--YES He's cognizant of them but he has no part in that decision making process--That's free will working...

...
So god knows everything that is going to happen, he knows exactly what choice we are going to make everytime we are presented with a decision... But you say we still have free will.

If he knows how every aspect of one's life is going to turn out before it all happens... then that person's life is already mapped out for them & they are going along with that plan no matter what... where's the free will

Exactly...If God is omniprescent and omniscient and he is all-knowing....Then He knows your every move, what you are thinking, your choices in the future andthe decisions you will take and make in your life. So using this logic, our so-called free will cannot override God's omniscience. Everything we think anddo is already known to Him and has been known to him for all eternity past. So let's say then that you believe in the power of prayer...What is prayersupposed to change really?You will pray if God already knows you will and you won't do it if he already knows you won't. He's known forever whetheror not you'll repent. You can't change that. The decision is not yours to make, because using the logic that God is omniprescent and all-knowing, thenthe prophecy overrides everything unless the Bible, and therefore God, is wrong. Do we really have the free will as God's follower suggest we do?Let megive an analogy to compare this to...It is like a skilled magician asking someone to choose a card from a stacked deck, at first it appears to be a freechoice, but the magician knows the outcome before he even offers the deck. Do we really have the free will?

So, then technically, if he does know about our future choices, then we aren't really making choices nor do we have free will, we're just following apredestined plan.
 
As far as I understand the whole Omnicent thing(not what I believe) It's like watching a cartoon on demand for God. The actors still make their own choiceshe just sees what choices they make. To him we don't have free will, much in the same way the characters in a television show don't have free will(thecharacters not the actors). They do what they "want" to do and we just watch, no matter how many times we watch it it doesn't change. Would yousay they have free will? Idk but atleast they would say they have free will. It's a perspective thing, to him we don't but to us we do.
 
It saddens my heart to see the reactions and thoughts of some people on this board, but it only strengthens my faith.

God is a jealous God. He is a perfect judge. Punishment comes from Sin. Many aspects of life we do not understand are not for us to understand. Deuteronomy29:29 states that God knows secrets men will never be able to know, ever (paraphrasing, but still).

When you say vengeful, I believe you are correct, but only in justice. God is a perfect judge and any action that he takes is justified; but it is not in ourability to know what is justifiable.

In one aspect, you could say that yes he is. But you must remember that also, we (people) killed his one an only son! He could eliminate ALL of humanity andstart the whole world over! If you were a father and someone killed your son, don't you think you would be vengeful? But he did not kill us. He gave usgrace and mercy since we are yet sinners.

I believe the nature of God is shown to be probably not vengeful, but it is not up to me to decide.
 
Originally Posted by CoolGrayGrey

It saddens my heart to see the reactions and thoughts of some people on this board, but it only strengthens my faith.

God is a jealous God. He is a perfect judge. Punishment comes from Sin. Many aspects of life we do not understand are not for us to understand. Deuteronomy 29:29 states that God knows secrets men will never be able to know, ever (paraphrasing, but still).

When you say vengeful, I believe you are correct, but only in justice. God is a perfect judge and any action that he takes is justified; but it is not in our ability to know what is justifiable.

In one aspect, you could say that yes he is. But you must remember that also, we (people) killed his one an only son! He could eliminate ALL of humanity and start the whole world over! If you were a father and someone killed your son, don't you think you would be vengeful? But he did not kill us. He gave us grace and mercy since we are yet sinners.

I believe the nature of God is shown to be probably not vengeful, but it is not up to me to decide.
didnt the Noah's Ark Flood, the destruction of Sodom & Gmorrah, the 10 plagues happen before Jesus was killed? What is your explanaitonfrom that
 
Allah has created all that we call the universe as a test for us. This is not our final destination. What we might consider to be"bad" or "good" could actually be quite the opposite. As regards oppression, this is something that Allah forbids for Himself to do toanyone and He hates it when anyone oppresses someone else. Allah does have absolute power over everything. Allah allows sickness, disease, death and evenoppression so that we can all be tested in what we do.
 
Originally Posted by HangTight

Allah has created all that we call the universe as a test for us. This is not our final destination. What we might consider to be "bad" or "good" could actually be quite the opposite. As regards oppression, this is something that Allah forbids for Himself to do to anyone and He hates it when anyone oppresses someone else. He does have absolute power over everything. He allows sickness, disease, death and even oppression so that we can all be tested in what we do.
Then again, how are we being tested? Isn't God all knowing? Doesn't he already know who will obey him or not who is going to Heaven orHell? So then, it is justifiable for God to put some innocent humans through suffrance and misery just to test them? Rape, murder,torture,etc.?
 
Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by HangTight

Allah has created all that we call the universe as a test for us. This is not our final destination. What we might consider to be "bad" or "good" could actually be quite the opposite. As regards oppression, this is something that Allah forbids for Himself to do to anyone and He hates it when anyone oppresses someone else. He does have absolute power over everything. He allows sickness, disease, death and even oppression so that we can all be tested in what we do.
Then again, how are we being tested? Isn't God all knowing? Doesn't he already know who will obey him or not who is going to Heaven or Hell? So then, it is justifiable for God to put some innocent humans through suffrance and misery just to test them? Rape, murder,torture,etc.?
i get the feeling from just about every religion that God could be described as an "the ends justify the means" type of being
 
Originally Posted by Stevenzsofly

Originally Posted by Dr Spaceman

So if you live your life in some isolated tribe unspoiled by the outside world, but you lived a loving and caring life, you will be banished to hell?
Basically, the only ones that are excused are the mentally ill
That's FAR from true, I feel dumber even for readingsomething your inane statement. Obviously your knowledge of the Bible is far from expansive. It says near the end of the New Testament that those who acceptChrist as their savior go to heaven, but those who did not/have not will be judged by God according to their actions.
 
I suppose that's why He sent the ten commandments. He won't "override" our free will but leave it up to us.
 
Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by CoolGrayGrey

It saddens my heart to see the reactions and thoughts of some people on this board, but it only strengthens my faith.

God is a jealous God. He is a perfect judge. Punishment comes from Sin. Many aspects of life we do not understand are not for us to understand. Deuteronomy 29:29 states that God knows secrets men will never be able to know, ever (paraphrasing, but still).

When you say vengeful, I believe you are correct, but only in justice. God is a perfect judge and any action that he takes is justified; but it is not in our ability to know what is justifiable.

In one aspect, you could say that yes he is. But you must remember that also, we (people) killed his one an only son! He could eliminate ALL of humanity and start the whole world over! If you were a father and someone killed your son, don't you think you would be vengeful? But he did not kill us. He gave us grace and mercy since we are yet sinners.

I believe the nature of God is shown to be probably not vengeful, but it is not up to me to decide.
didnt the Noah's Ark Flood, the destruction of Sodom & Gmorrah, the 10 plagues happen before Jesus was killed? What is your explanaiton from that

What about the passages where God ordered the killing of infants, woman, and whole peoples by certain Israelite tribes, Kings, or prophets, because they were"idolators" and did not worship Him? For example, in Deuteronomy, there is a passage about the Lord instructing Israel to kill anyone who worships adifferent god or who worships the Lord differently.Even in the New Testament, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children asprescribed by Old Testament Law. In Luke, there is a passage where Jesus orders the killing of anyone who refuses to be ruled by him. Again, quite violent,intolerant, and vengeful, but then people seem to overlook all those stories and passages.
 
Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by HangTight

Allah has created all that we call the universe as a test for us. This is not our final destination. What we might consider to be "bad" or "good" could actually be quite the opposite. As regards oppression, this is something that Allah forbids for Himself to do to anyone and He hates it when anyone oppresses someone else. He does have absolute power over everything. He allows sickness, disease, death and even oppression so that we can all be tested in what we do.
Then again, how are we being tested? Isn't God all knowing? Doesn't he already know who will obey him or not who is going to Heaven or Hell? So then, it is justifiable for God to put some innocent humans through suffrance and misery just to test them? Rape, murder,torture,etc.?
i get the feeling from just about every religion that God could be described as an "the ends justify the means" type of being

To be witness on our own actions.
 
Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by CoolGrayGrey

It saddens my heart to see the reactions and thoughts of some people on this board, but it only strengthens my faith.

God is a jealous God. He is a perfect judge. Punishment comes from Sin. Many aspects of life we do not understand are not for us to understand. Deuteronomy 29:29 states that God knows secrets men will never be able to know, ever (paraphrasing, but still).

When you say vengeful, I believe you are correct, but only in justice. God is a perfect judge and any action that he takes is justified; but it is not in our ability to know what is justifiable.

In one aspect, you could say that yes he is. But you must remember that also, we (people) killed his one an only son! He could eliminate ALL of humanity and start the whole world over! If you were a father and someone killed your son, don't you think you would be vengeful? But he did not kill us. He gave us grace and mercy since we are yet sinners.

I believe the nature of God is shown to be probably not vengeful, but it is not up to me to decide.
didnt the Noah's Ark Flood, the destruction of Sodom & Gmorrah, the 10 plagues happen before Jesus was killed? What is your explanaiton from that
Sodom & Gomorrah is not applicable because Abraham reasoned with and pleaded with him to NOT destroy Sodom & Gomorrah. Abraham says thatif he finds 50 righteous people, will God not save the city? He eventually brings God down to 10 righteous people, if found, will save the city totally. Thentwo angels come to Sodom & Gomorrah, as men in form, and the citizens want to have sex with the men (angels)! So obviously there was not ONE righteous orGod-Fearing or "Christian" person inside of that town, so it must be destroyed for the sake of humanity.

The 10 plagues occured because God wanted the people of Egypt to understand the power and the might of God and not turn to Pharaoh for their authority. Godalways hardened Pharaohs heart so that the people of Egypt would listen to Moses and turn away from the Pharaoh. Basically, they followed pharaoh and believedhim to be their authority and with the plagues came the knowledge that pharaoh was not the leader of everything. God wanted the people of Egypt to worshiphim.

The flood occured because "the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all thepeople on earth had corrupted their ways. So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people for the earth is filled with violence because ofthem. I am surely going to destory both them and the earth" (Genesis 6:11-13). He was smiting the land because of their horrendous demeanor towards him.

Vengeful carries negative tendancies. As I said, God is a perfect judge so his choices are justified because of his complete knowledge of justice and what istruely correct. The Holy Spirit, part of the triune God, is known as "The Spirit of Truth." God is truth and he knows what deserves what.
 
Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

Originally Posted by ericberry14

Question for everybody in here:

How can GOD be all-knowing, yet people claim that we still have free-will? If GOD knows what's going to happen, then our choices have already been made, somebody explain please
You're trying to relate two very different things here.

Yes GOD is all knowing but what makes you think he is actively influencing our decisions. Our choices have been made by us, not him--YES He's cognizant of them but he has no part in that decision making process--That's free will working...

...
So god knows everything that is going to happen, he knows exactly what choice we are going to make everytime we are presented with a decision... But you say we still have free will.

If he knows how every aspect of one's life is going to turn out before it all happens... then that person's life is already mapped out for them & they are going along with that plan no matter what... where's the free will

Exactly...If God is omniprescent and omniscient and he is all-knowing....Then He knows your every move, what you are thinking, your choices in the future and the decisions you will take and make in your life. So using this logic, our so-called free will cannot override God's omniscience. Everything we think and do is already known to Him and has been known to him for all eternity past. So let's say then that you believe in the power of prayer...What is prayer supposed to change really?You will pray if God already knows you will and you won't do it if he already knows you won't. He's known forever whether or not you'll repent. You can't change that. The decision is not yours to make, because using the logic that God is omniprescent and all-knowing, then the prophecy overrides everything unless the Bible, and therefore God, is wrong. Do we really have the free will as God's follower suggest we do?Let me give an analogy to compare this to...It is like a skilled magician asking someone to choose a card from a stacked deck, at first it appears to be a free choice, but the magician knows the outcome before he even offers the deck. Do we really have the free will?

So, then technically, if he does know about our future choices, then we aren't really making choices nor do we have free will, we're just following a predestined plan.

Once again, God knowing our "future choices" and our "free will" are mutually exclusive. You're also basing your argument on therational that HE has actively influenced us in our decisions and thus, this entity we call free will is a ruse...which is false--imo, granted I realize myopinion is just as hypothetical as yours because we cannot know anything for sure...

Just because he knows our path and our future choices doesn't mean free will in an inconsequential concept. Using your magician analogy. If you reallythink about it...the person that picked the card did so under free-will. They chose the card they wanted, not what the magician wanted. Granted, the magicianknows all the cards in his deck just as God knows all the mysteries of the Universe. If anything is certain, it's that the magician has a greater awarenessof his deck than the chooser just as God has a greater awareness of the Universe. But even so, he didn't take the chooser's hand and direct him/her toone of 54 cards in the deck...instead, the chooser--using their free will--made an unhindered decision as to which card to pick...

Just because our future choices are visible to Him, doesn't mean he constructed the path through which we traverse in life...

...
 
Originally Posted by ericberry14

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by HangTight

Allah has created all that we call the universe as a test for us. This is not our final destination. What we might consider to be "bad" or "good" could actually be quite the opposite. As regards oppression, this is something that Allah forbids for Himself to do to anyone and He hates it when anyone oppresses someone else. He does have absolute power over everything. He allows sickness, disease, death and even oppression so that we can all be tested in what we do.
Then again, how are we being tested? Isn't God all knowing? Doesn't he already know who will obey him or not who is going to Heaven or Hell? So then, it is justifiable for God to put some innocent humans through suffrance and misery just to test them? Rape, murder,torture,etc.?
i get the feeling from just about every religion that God could be described as an "the ends justify the means" type of being
Basically, it's frightening and yet ironic at the same time when it comes to all the ppl who have seen glory or have been persecuted forfollowing a "ends justify the means" lifestyle.
 
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