Seriously Would Drug Legalization Benefit the underclass??

The part about ppl being released from prison for drug related crimes is out there. The U.S. criminal justice system does not work like that. At the most theycould hope for is time reduced when they appeal or something along those lines. Some ppl may be released not all. Lets not act like the drug lord shoot outs,unchecked drug distribution and usage haven't caused many deaths in our society.
 
the money spent on the war on drugs doesn't compare to the money spent on the war for oil.
 
The laws most frequently enforced via jail time in the U.S. are those which members of the lower class most commonly break. As someone said above, the penalsystem is full of nonviolent drug offenders, the majority of whom come from the lower economic classes in our society. Moreover, there is a tendency on thepart of the courts to let middle and upper class offenders off with probation and a differed judgment when they do commit a crime common to the lower class.

The crimes most often committed by middle and upper class citizens (think white collar crime) are not punished with jail time nearly as often as crimes commonto the lower class (drugs, petty theft, etc...). Instead, those middle and upper class offenders avoid jail by paying fines and performing community service.

The U.S. legal system attaches tags to lower class citizens that follow them for the rest of their lives; they are labeled as criminals and have to list theiroffenses on every job application they fill out. Middle and upper class citizens often avoid this fate when they break the law. In a sense, the lower classoffender is punished for the rest of his life due to being labeled a criminal while the middle or upper class offender's punishment is momentary andinvolves the least amount of pain (no incarceration, just the outlay of money and a little time spent working at a shelter or Good Will).

Legalizing drugs would take away from the courts the ability to control the bodies of so many of our lower class citizens. Read your Foucault.
 
if drugs were legal, my boys would still sell them illegally.

why go all the way to the store when u can just walk to the corner?
 
Making drugs legalized in this country will make is more expensive for the Underclass.

With Gov't regulation and the taxation the Underclass will be spending more on the drugs than if it wasn't legal.



Just look at the cigarette tax, who is that hurting Low-Income, Low Middle-Income classes. Why because they don't make as much money so they spend more oftheir money on the cigarettes.

Just because it is legal doesn't mean its going to be legal to grow.



I would love to see drugs legalized in the country, but WITHOUT regulation. Unfortunately there would be HUGE power grab on how to regulate it. So by sayingthat its better off not being legal.
 
We are in a recession, and with a progressive policy like legalization you would see an immediate stimulation to the economy. Not to mention that hundreds of thousands of people would be released from prison, and have their records expunged, which would give men and women with records a chance to return to work. Crime would be reduced because the black market would be abolished. Also, those who wish to use drugs would be able to have a decent supply because the prices would go down, so that would also decrease crime.


Records expunged? These people knowingly broke laws, what difference does it make that it's all of a sudden not a crime anymore?

Return to work? Seriously? The US has stifling unemployment and you think that if more jobless people were thrown onto the street it would help things?

Black market abolished? No one smuggles guns, people and all kinds of other illegal stuff? C'mon this is the most ridiculous one.

Price of drugs will go down? After heavy taxes? Please, drugs couldn't get much cheaper right now, if they were ever legalized the prices would be insanelyhigh to keep kids from being able to afford it.

If drugs were legalized these people would have no business in jail and we wouldn't have to worry about building more jails to hold them in.


If they weren't in jail they'd most likely be homeless on the street and looking for welfare.


I think you're severely underestimating how much of our Americas love this plant. That coupled with ending the ridiculous amount of money spent on this war on drug would be some serious amount of revenue that at least deserves consideration.


Plant? Marijuana is the least of your worries, it's addictive qualities are debatable. Cocaine, heroine, amphetamines and a dozen other things are what youneed to be worried about. Plus, all those 'drug lords' would be unemployed.

Exactly... If anything a lot of people especially young americans are more attracted to drugs because it feels as if there doing some "illegal" or "risky, many do it to revolt or show how "bad" they are. Legalizing will definitively put a damper on this kind of logic.


So let me get this straight you are saying that children are less likely to use drugs if they are legal? Well first of all if they were legal it'd be forpeople over 18 or 21 (so I'd hope) and there will still be a market of "risk-takers", and they would likely be defying their parents and stillsee that thrill that you're talking about.

Data shows that drug use is steadily declining year by year and that the biggest problems are alcohol and marijuana.

Reported drug and alcohol use by high school seniors, 2007

Used within the last:

Drugs 12 months* 30 days
Alcohol 66.4 % 44.4 %
Marijuana 31.7 18.8
Other opiates 9.2 3.8
Stimulants 7.5 3.7
Sedatives 6.2 2.7
Tranquilizers 6.2 2.6
Cocaine 5.2 2.0
Hallucinogens 5.4 1.7
Inhalants 3.7 1.2
Steroids 1.4 1.0
Heroin 0.9 0.4
*Including the last month.
Source: Press release: Overall, illicit drug use by American teens continues gradual decline in 2007, University of Michigan News and Information Services, December 11, 2007. (Acrobat file 63.66 KB)
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That's despite these numbers which are disturbingly high

Percent of high school seniors reporting they could obtain drugs fairly easily or very easily, 2007

Marijuana 83.9 %
Amphetamines 49.6
Cocaine 47.1
Barbiturates 41.7
Crack 37.5
LSD 28.7
Heroin 29.7
Crystal methamphetamine 25.1
Tranquilizers 23.6
PCP 21.0
Amyl/butyl nitrites 18.1
Source: Press release: Overall, illicit drug use by American teens continues gradual decline in 2007, University of Michigan News and Information Services, December 11, 2007. (Acrobat file 63.66 KB)
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But the fact remains, 18-25 is the most prevalent age group for marijuana/cocaine:

Age of respondent, 2006

Drug use 12-17 18-25 26 or older
Marijuana
Last month 6.7 % 16.3 % 4.2 %
Last year 13.2 28.0 6.8
Cocaine
Last month 0.4 % 2.2 % 0.8 %
Last year 1.6 6.9 1.8

Source: SAMHSA, Office of Applied Studies, 2006 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: National Findings, September 2007.




So don't worry about the high school kids, that part of the "war on drugs" is being relatively effective. The college-aged kids are the ones whoare on the most amount of drugs. Those kids are hoping to just experiment and then let it go so I doubt that the numbers would reduce if marijuana/cocaine waslegal. If anything those numbers would significantly increase since it's now legal and they won't get kicked out of school for using (just likealcohol, undoubtedly the college student's most preferred drug).

Get it straight, I'm not saying alcohol should even be legal but that doesn't mean that opening the flood gates is a good idea.


Source:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/du.htm
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There really is no valid reason why marijuana is illegal. Even alcohol causes more societal negatives than marijuana.

I'm not sure about narcotics, but weed, legalize it.
 
Records expunged? These people knowingly broke laws, what difference does it make that it's all of a sudden not a crime anymore?

Return to work? Seriously? The US has stifling unemployment and you think that if more jobless people were thrown onto the street it would help things?

Black market abolished? No one smuggles guns, people and all kinds of other illegal stuff? C'mon this is the most ridiculous one.

Price of drugs will go down? After heavy taxes? Please, drugs couldn't get much cheaper right now, if they were ever legalized the prices would be insanely high to keep kids from being able to afford it.
1)Your talking as if were releasing known killers. I'm strictly talking about people who are stuck in jail off of pure drug sentences. Thereare guys doing 5-10 years for simply selling a couple of grams. It cost on average 40-50 thousand a year to hold one of these drug offenders. Add to the factthat he/she is gonna be released and have almost zero probability of even working at MC'D there gonna go right back to drug dealing and waste more taxmoney on Jail, court, Police Force, meanwhile by the time that person is in jail 3 new people have taken there place.

2) I understand where your coming from but im willing to bet that a large majority of the unemployed comes from the lower class citizens. These are people whohave been in minor legal trouble & uneducated, so with those two traits it becomes nearly impossible for them to get jobs. Why not invest in job trainingand mandatory rehab, to actually give these people a shot at a real income.

3) of course if it's legalized people are still going to sell illegally, but to say it won't put a large slow down on the black market is porpostrous.With Drugs comes violence largely incorparated. Whether it's shooting over territory or business done wrong 9/10 it wouldn't have been a problem if itwasn't for the drugs. U legalize it and a large portion of the violence crimes are down especially in inner city areas. if it's now being taxed andcontrolled in actual stores you no longer have people killing eachother on every other corner.
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Originally Posted by GUILLERMO GUTIEREZ

if drugs were legal, my boys would still sell them illegally.

why go all the way to the store when u can just walk to the corner?
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So I can buy regulated marijuana without getting punishedby the law. No way in hell would your boy still have a market to sell to if drugs were legal. People are not gonna buy drugs from a back alley when they canlegally buy them in the supermarket.
Black market abolished? No one smuggles guns, people and all kinds of other illegal stuff? C'mon this is the most ridiculous one.
Black Market for drugs will be abolished. Answer me this, what is making the majority of cartels profit? People, guns, or drugs? We have historyas an example to tell us when you take away the means (legalization) cartels fall through.
Price of drugs will go down? After heavy taxes? Please, drugs couldn't get much cheaper right now, if they were ever legalized the prices would be insanely high to keep kids from being able to afford it.

Government taxes are nothing compared to cartel taxes for risking their life and freedom to get us this drug. Your argument is completelyunwarranted. Since when do we raise prices to keep things away from kids? Compare medical marijuana prices and they are alot cheaper than street prices (unlessyou're from Cali). Trust me, I'm from Texas and I know prices very well.

If drugs were legalized these people would have no business in jail and we wouldn't have to worry about building more jails to hold them in.


If they weren't in jail they'd most likely be homeless on the street and looking for welfare.
Whoa
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How you got to your stance is becoming more apparent.So according to you, all the people in jail for drug charges would otherwise be homeless or on welfare? There really is no room for assertions like this in anintellectual converstation. That statement is completely baseless and out of scope.



I think you're severely underestimating how much of our Americas love this plant. That coupled with ending the ridiculous amount of money spent on this war on drug would be some serious amount of revenue that at least deserves consideration.


Plant? Marijuana is the least of your worries, it's addictive qualities are debatable. Cocaine, heroine, amphetamines and a dozen other things are what you need to be worried about. Plus, all those 'drug lords' would be unemployed.
Again your response is out of scope. My main point is there are MILLIONS of Americans ready and willing to spend their money on marijuana. Youcan't deny that.
Data shows that drug use is steadily declining year by year and that the biggest problems are alcohol and marijuana.
So don't worry about the high school kids, that part of the "war on drugs" is being relatively effective.
The decline on drugs is not a product of legislation, it's a product of education. This is supported by the fact that cigarettes remain llegalbut still use is steady declining. How can you explain that? Decline in use while legal.

Ok. I want to understand your stance so correct me if I'm wrong.

Drugs = Bad for society because ? > Prohibited to prevent society from accessing and using drugs and being bad > Prohibition = billions in governmentspending > thousands of arrests/diminished rights/drug cartels = thousands of murders = murderous have more money than we can fight > But at least peoplearen't using drugs....even though as stated by you

  • 83% of high schoolers can easily access weed
  • 49.6 Amphetamines
  • 47.1 Cocaine
  • 41.7 Barbiturates
  • 37.5 Crack
  • 28.7 LSD
  • 29.7 Heroin
  • 25.1 Crystal methamphetamine
  • 23.6 Tranquilizers
  • 21.0 PCP
  • 18.1 Amyl/butyl nitrites
So if Prohibition is so high schoolers (bc I'm assuming you're trying to protect the children who aren't yet grown to be responsible for theiractions) can't have access to drugs.


To Summarize:
Is 17% of high schoolers not being able to easily access weed and 50%+ of high schoolers not being able to accessamphetimines/crack/coke worth billions in government spending, thousands of arrests/diminished rights/drug cartels = thousands of murders = murderous havemore money than we can fight

Even if the percentage of those who don't have access could easily ask those who do have access if they ever wanted some.

Your self-righteous way of choosing to "protect" others from their decisions is flat out wrong. While you pat yourself on the shoulder for decidingwhats better for us thanks to your stance in prohibition respectively 83%, 49%, and 47% of high schoolers still have access to these drugs.

Yet you shed no tears to the thousands killed as a direct result of your prohibition. Thank god that 17% of high schoolers IF THEY WANTED TO couldn'taccess weed. Its definitely worth all the violence.


EDUCATION IS THE ANSWER NOT PROHIBITION.
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Originally Posted by Executive76

People would still commit crimes to get money to buy them...
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Things people commit crimes to buy under prohibition.

  • Drugs
  • Food
  • Clothes
  • Electronics
  • Sex (as in things to impress women to have sex with you [cars, jewelery, etc.]
Things people commit crimes to buy under legalization

  • Drugs
  • Food
  • Clothes
  • Electronics
  • Sex (as in things to impress women to have sex with you [cars, jewelery, etc.]
We have laws to punish the crimes. We don't need laws to punish buying something that could make you commit a crime to get money for.

So in order for prohibtion to be upheld due to this reason; there would need to be a significant rise in users afterdecrimilization/legalization (netherlands tells us this doesn't happen, followed by an increase in crime of only the small percentage of user who need tocommit crime to get their drugs. And most importantly this increase in crime would need to outweight the crime caused by drug cartels that would beabolished.

All this is very highly doubtful.
 
Originally Posted by Executive76

People would still commit crimes to get money to buy them...
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illegal or not, people would commit another crime just to get their fix
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Originally Posted by secretzofwar

There really is no valid reason why marijuana is illegal. Even alcohol causes more societal negatives than marijuana.
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That's not a fact.
 
How I got to my stance is very clear: narcotics do no good in society. Cigarettes and alcohol either.

If you want to make a case for marijuana, to some extent it's there to make for medicinal and a few other reasons. It might even be less harmfulthan alcohol, but that doesn't mean it should be legal. Give me something to vote on that would outlaw alcohol and I'll vote for it.

But beyond marijuana what good would drugs bring to America? It will only bring more problems, even if all your economic blabbering somehow worked and theblack market magically disappeared.
 
Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by secretzofwar

There really is no valid reason why marijuana is illegal. Even alcohol causes more societal negatives than marijuana.
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That's not a fact.
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Which one isn't? If not explain why your countering evidence.
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That alcohol causes more societal negatives. You may show me stats, but at the end of the day its subjective and no clear cut evidence. Reason being is becausealcohol is more accesisble than marijuan is. Plus, people act differently to both.


There isnt a valid reason why Cocaine or any other opium product isnt legal, either. It has medicinal values to it as well.
 
Originally Posted by infamousod

How I got to my stance is very clear: narcotics do no good in society. Cigarettes and alcohol either.

If you want to make a case for marijuana, to some extent it's there to make for medicinal and a few other reasons. It might even be less harmful than alcohol, but that doesn't mean it should be legal. Give me something to vote on that would outlaw alcohol and I'll vote for it.

But beyond marijuana what good would drugs bring to America? It will only bring more problems, even if all your economic blabbering somehow worked and the black market magically disappeared.
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We aren't arguing whether or not drugs are good.
Do you honestly think my stance is "yay everyone do heroin! Heroin hurts nobody!"? Besides LSD, Mushrooms, and marijuana I'm pretty sure you andI have the same views on other drugs. Our views are more in common than you think.

My stance is legalization OBVIOUSLY isn't working. It's failing more miserable than I could ever imagine a public policy to fail.

You're not alone in your stance that drugs have some inherently bad qualities about them.



I know that your stance is drugs, bad for society, therefore legalization good. But truthfully ask yourself using the numbers you posted. How well is thisworking. Is it worth the consequences?

As we have seen, prohibition does not = no more drugs.

I know you know this. You posted the rates of accessibility of drugs for high schoolers. You yourself went to high school. You know that illicit drugs pushersdidn't card or ask for id.

I know you are completely aware that drugs are still easy to get. How can legalization bring more problems if the problem already exists in full force? Drugscouldn't get more available, even if they do get more avaliable an increase in education paid for by drug revenues will mean less users. \


Men will always be willing to risk it all to make an unheard amount of money selling these drugs. o

How many more of our citizens will be jailed for public health issues?
How many more victims need to die on our borders?
How many more addicts need to get and spread STDs thanks to our needle ban?


In the whole wall of text I posted I'm just begging you to read through it with your defenses down and try to work with me on some of the points I made. Ifthis prohibition isn't working we need to take other steps and people need to be open to this. Again I will state. We're not aruging on removing drugsfrom our soceity. That is not what we're arguing about.

DON'T BASE YOUR ARGUMENTS ON WANTING TO REMOVE DRUGS FROM OUR SOCIETY. We both understand this is the goal which has been utterly impossible. Base yourargument on the efficacy of prohibition.

I'm really talking specifically to you because Fede is competely devout of logic reasoning skills.
 
My thing is the potential horrors of legalization outweigh the benefits.

I mostly fear the unforeseen consequences than the ones we know about. I admit I'm not an expert on the subject but the dynamics of legalized (ordecriminalized) narcotics in Amsterdam and their effects, I think, would be very different than in the US.

I gotta go take a final
 
Originally Posted by infamousod

My thing is the potential horrors of legalization outweigh the benefits.

I mostly fear the unforeseen consequences than the ones we know about. I admit I'm not an expert on the subject but the dynamics of legalized (or decriminalized) narcotics in Amsterdam and their effects, I think, would be very different than in the US.

I gotta go take a final
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Perfectly understandable. Goodluck.
 
if the US were to go the legalization route (note, not decriminalization).... the laws for abuse of would need to be set up way before you'd get themajority of america(including me) to buy into it
 
To clarify...I have a friend who is always in financial trouble and is usually just scraping by. He's a great guy and will give you the shirt off his backbut he can never get his life in order. I bring this up because despite his financial troubles, every time he's in a slightly stressful situation (whichnormal people go through) with a girl or with anything, he will run to the store and buy a pack of ciggs because he claims it calms him down. He always swearshe'll quit right away but he ends up on them for a couple weeks. Keep in mind he needs that money to pay bills and even to eat.

I'm not saying he would turn to worse drugs if they were legal, hell I'm pretty sure he uses marijuana on occasions, but there are inherently a lot ofpeople like this and there will always be. What happens 20-30 years from now if drugs are legal. Kids (years from now with no knowledge of what it was likewhen drugs were illegal) will have grown up looking at coke and dope the same way we grew up looking at cigarettes: a stress reliever you can't use untilyour 18/21 unless someone buys it for you. Just like my friend, some will think it's a quick escape that they can drop right away.

I understand this goes on today but truth be told a lot of people put trust in the government to ban things that are bad. The majority of people will usethings unless the FDA approves it, and if the FDA approves it they will take it without thinking twice. Not that the FDA hasn't approved bad things ordenied perfectly healthy things. But when kids grow up with a different perspective than us, seeing coke and dope as something you shouldn't use but canuse when you're older, I think it would significantly increase drug use. And I'm talking about perfectly legit people like your average cigg smoker,not kids trying to rebel.

Legalizing would increase drug use and I don't mind paying a significant portion of my taxes to locking up law breakers and trying to keep the streetsclean.
 
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