*Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf* Appreciation (Formerly Chris Jackson)

Originally Posted by Juan Baller

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



No it's not. But it's amazing how you can put such a positive spin on a 23 year-old averaging 21 and 7 and such a negative spin on a 26 year-old
averaging 19 and 7 as if they're from different planets. And this is in no way to downgrade Penny, just your flawed logic.
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They are certainly from differently planets.

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf had loads of talent, but he wasn't able to put it together in the NBA to ever be a productive player. Yes, he got buckets, but he did so at the cost of his team by scoring in an highly inefficient manner.

In Abdul-Rauf's best season, when he averaged 19.2 pts and 6.8 ast, he attempted 16.8 FG per game to get those 19.2 pts. That equates to 1.10 pts per FG attempt, which is very inefficient. As a point of reference, the NBA average was 1.24 pts per FG attempt in 1995-96. In the league today, Raymond Felton would be the closest comparison in terms of inefficient scoring.

Conversely, Penny Hardaway put up 21.7 pts that same year on only 14.8 FG attempts per game. That's 1.47 pts per FG attempt, which is way above average.

So yes, Penny's and Abdul-Rauf's lines are very different. One was remarkly efficient and one was very inefficent. Another measure of efficiency is PER (Player Efficiency Rating which measures per-minute production standardized so the league average is 15). In 1995-96, Penny had a 24.6 PER to Abdul-Rauf's 18.6 PER (and going back to my original argument, Barros had a higher PER than Abdul-Rauf over his career). The correlation between scoring efficiently and winning games in the NBA is very strong.
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Oh, you're one of those PER ignoramuses? Well, why didn't you say so? I can see how there is no way that a player averaging 19 and 7 on 1.1 points perFGA attempt could have a better PER than Penny Hardaway.. Except TERRELL BRANDON who happened to have those same averages the same year Penny had thatextremely efficient season yet he had a better PER than Penny (25.2). Well, I guess it's settled then, Terrell Brandon was better than Penny Hardaway. Youlearn something new every day. Career PER? Guess who has a career PER that is higher than Penny Hardaway's:

Peja Stojakovic
Brad Miller
Andre Miller
Corey Maggette
Terrell Brandon (has higher PER both in Penny's best season AND a higher career PER? Now I guess there's really no discussion between who ofthe two is better)
Andrei Kirilenko
Zach Randolph
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Antawn Jamison
Rik Smits
Jeff Hornacek
Glenn Robinson

Man, I never knew that all these players were better than Penny Hardaway. But thanks to you, now I know.

My personal favorite example of PER's brilliance and why it should be used in every argument possible about who is a better basketball player is when in2001-02, Jason Kidd, who finished second in MVP voting and who many think was the right MVP of that season had a PER of 19.1 - not even remotely close to thePER leaders that year. Thankfully, he didn't win the MVP with such a lousy PER. All hail PER.
 
Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by Juan Baller

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl



No it's not. But it's amazing how you can put such a positive spin on a 23 year-old averaging 21 and 7 and such a negative spin on a 26 year-old
averaging 19 and 7 as if they're from different planets. And this is in no way to downgrade Penny, just your flawed logic.
Click to expand...

They are certainly from differently planets.

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf had loads of talent, but he wasn't able to put it together in the NBA to ever be a productive player. Yes, he got buckets, but he did so at the cost of his team by scoring in an highly inefficient manner.

In Abdul-Rauf's best season, when he averaged 19.2 pts and 6.8 ast, he attempted 16.8 FG per game to get those 19.2 pts. That equates to 1.10 pts per FG attempt, which is very inefficient. As a point of reference, the NBA average was 1.24 pts per FG attempt in 1995-96. In the league today, Raymond Felton would be the closest comparison in terms of inefficient scoring.

Conversely, Penny Hardaway put up 21.7 pts that same year on only 14.8 FG attempts per game. That's 1.47 pts per FG attempt, which is way above average.

So yes, Penny's and Abdul-Rauf's lines are very different. One was remarkly efficient and one was very inefficent. Another measure of efficiency is PER (Player Efficiency Rating which measures per-minute production standardized so the league average is 15). In 1995-96, Penny had a 24.6 PER to Abdul-Rauf's 18.6 PER (and going back to my original argument, Barros had a higher PER than Abdul-Rauf over his career). The correlation between scoring efficiently and winning games in the NBA is very strong.
Click to expand...


Oh, you're one of those PER ignoramuses? Well, why didn't you say so? I can see how there is no way that a player averaging 19 and 7 on 1.1 points per FGA attempt could have a better PER than Penny Hardaway.. Except TERRELL BRANDON who happened to have those same averages the same year Penny had that extremely efficient season yet he had a better PER than Penny (25.2). Well, I guess it's settled then, Terrell Brandon was better than Penny Hardaway. You learn something new every day. Career PER? Guess who has a career PER that is higher than Penny Hardaway's:

Peja Stojakovic
Brad Miller
Andre Miller
Corey Maggette
Terrell Brandon (has higher PER both in Penny's best season AND a higher career PER? Now I guess there's really no discussion between who of the two is better)
Andrei Kirilenko
Zach Randolph
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Antawn Jamison
Rik Smits
Jeff Hornacek
Glenn Robinson

Man, I never knew that all these players were better than Penny Hardaway. But thanks to you, now I know.

My personal favorite example of PER's brilliance and why it should be used in every argument possible about who is a better basketball player is when in 2001-02, Jason Kidd, who finished second in MVP voting and who many think was the right MVP of that season had a PER of 19.1 - not even remotely close to the PER leaders that year. Thankfully, he didn't win the MVP with such a lousy PER. All hail PER.
Click to expand...
We argue a lot when it comes to a certain other player and team, but in this thread I am right with you. I remember him lighting folks up. Hisproblem like someone said he needed that extra 3-4 inches in height. He also needed dedicated strength training. It's sad what happened to him but I feelhis thoughts on the "American Dream." This guy was a beast but wasn't a quality pg and tried to be an undersized scorer but settled for too manyjumpers. Who knows what he could have been under better guidence. I say him > AI if you use the Tmac "what if" clause.
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and
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for those using numbers to hate. Dude was ridiculous.
 
Mahmoud Abdul Rauf...great player...electric scorer..lightning speed...money from 3..perfect from the stripe...superior court vision..and was not scared tospeak his mind..

its obvious money didnt drive him..he knew that it couldnt take him to heaven...mahmoud sees the big picture..he saw the light

there is only one god..and muhammad is the messenger

allah hu akbar..
 
Originally Posted by SN Souljah

Mahmoud Abdul Rauf...great player...electric scorer..lightning speed...money from 3..perfect from the stripe...superior court vision..and was not scared to speak his mind..

its obvious money didnt drive him..he knew that it couldnt take him to heaven...mahmoud sees the big picture..he saw the light

there is only one god..and muhammad is the messenger

allah hu akbar..
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QFT
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Originally Posted by Menacin Methods

Originally Posted by SN Souljah

Mahmoud Abdul Rauf...great player...electric scorer..lightning speed...money from 3..perfect from the stripe...superior court vision..and was not scared to speak his mind..

its obvious money didnt drive him..he knew that it couldnt take him to heaven...mahmoud sees the big picture..he saw the light

there is only one god..and muhammad is the messenger

allah hu akbar..
Click to expand...
QFT
pimp.gif
Click to expand...


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great college player.
he was a solid shooter and a good nba player
 
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He came in the wrong era.  You see how Curry takes advantage of the current rule book and exploits it with his skills.  With his quick release jumper and the way he would launch the 3...I think he would have beasted in today's NBA.  
 
DMVisRNB said:
He came in the wrong era.  You see how Curry takes advantage of the current rule book and exploits it with his skills.  With his quick release jumper and the way he would launch the 3...I think he would have beasted in today's NBA.  
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agreed bro!
 
ESPN First Take Phil Jackson Compares Stephen Curry to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf - YouTube

Chris Jackson High School Interviews 1988 - YouTube
 
I remember in the mid 90s i Wanted to Buy bis Denver Nuggets Jersey. Couldn't find it so i grabbed the Mutombo one instead.
 
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dmvisrnb said:
He came in the wrong era. You see how Curry takes advantage of the current rule book and exploits it with his skills. With his quick release jumper and the way he would launch the 3...I think he would have beasted in today's NBA.
Click to expand...
Preach

Which is why I didn't understand the grief Phil Jackson got for making a similar statement
 
I was gonna say 'I hope whoever bumped this did it mention something about Big3.'

Honestly, he had some dimes that weren't even included in that package that should have been.
 
dcallamerican said:
Makes no sense. He is probably 10 years older than the next oldest person in the league. He inspires me. Growing up it was him and Mark Price for me, small SHOOTING PGs.
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No doubt! I'm 100% with you, Mark Price was so dope to me but my favorite was Mahmoud. I'm from Denver so as a kid me and my friend would bus it to the arena for the shoot around in the daytime. When it was at DU, we could actually sit in and watch the shoot arounds, it was so dope. There would literally only be a small handful of folks there. When it was at McNichols Arena we couldn't watch but we would hang out in the parking lot to see if we could get players to give us comps for the game, but also would get stuff signed, both for our own collections but also to make some bread (one of my first hustles as a child).

Mahmoud was super cool, he would sign everything we had and talk to us about basketball. He also hooked us up with tickets probably 5 or 6 times.

What he's doing now is incredible, super inspiring, as he's always been to me. I remember the Tourettes, both watching it in games, but also when we were rapping to him before games, I didn't notice it in any of the Big3 clips. Wonder if it calmed down? If thats even possible.

Amazing player and a really dope human.

Couple years ago I had to go back and cop the Mahmoud Champion jersey of ebay lol
 
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