2nd best Designer behind Tinker Hatfield? Opinions?

I agree...I think the story is everything! Maybe not everything, but its a huge component. Like you said, some people see a shoe and a pricepoint, but when you give them background on it, it makes a sort of connection.

I think thats why those shows how its made or pimp my ride or the motorcycle building shows etc do well. its one thing to see a sooped up bike with a huge pricetag. but when you see the concept and work that went into it, it gives you a different perception of it

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Taking it a step further.. the way Jordan use to have a Video of himself and a commercial playing at FNL or FTL why not have a video playing of the Design Process and story of that shoe going so Consumers can feel more connected to that shoe?

I think it would go a long way.. We always talk about a story being told.. but how many people actually know or see that story? They just see a shoe and a pricepoint. They have no knowledge of its story.

Theres always a story behind the shoe....if there's not.. its probably not meant for Retail anyway.

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Call me a cynic, but the way some shoes are being reproduced rather short of the original, the way they're mashing several shoes into something 'new',
i sometimes think Nike are quite happy to tell a revisionist version of their history, if they really want to tell anything at all.

Admittedly, when it was suggested this thread turn a little more towards 'who designed what', i expected a less positive response than the one that resulted, but it's still a tiny tiny
fraction of the membership of NT.

Maybe the majority of people just don't care, or maybe a lot of them don't care because they're just used to Nike pushing a shoe without highlighting how it came about.

Hey Swing... believe me. The Designers HATE that whole Mashup business.. but it IS a business and they are being paid to do it. Your're right. Nike probably isn't interested but the people putting the work in wouldn't mind. Thats for sure.

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

tokes99 wrote:

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emmanuelabor wrote:

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never wear them wrote:

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Sneaker art wouldve evolved eventually..... That simple... We would not be stuck in a world of chucks.... Tinker was the first to step up... That's it. His view on shoe designs were ahead of his time tho.

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we might not be stuck in a world of Chucks, but we might be stuck in a world of Dada or Reebok.

what Im saying is that I kinda feel like alot of what Nike is today was built off Tinker's design process.  Sure others MAY have surpassed him now, but there is the distinct possiblity that his design style made them look at shoes differently, and thus influence what theyre coming out with now
  


1. what makes nike what it is today & really separates nike from the other brands is primarily that they market, promote, & tell their story better than everyone else...and they stay consistent with the message, that they make innovative product(s) for athletes; so they always have a connection to sport/sport lifestyle...it was a confluence of factors that built the empire, the designs while influential, were not the main factor(s) as much as the philosophy that nike seems to have about the product(s) they make...

2. rockdeep's point is one i always bring up when i have these discussions about favorite designers, the fact that tinker had the blessing of designing for the most influential athlete in the modern era (at least when it comes to selling product) always gives me pause, because despite all that tinker (just look at all those patents!) has done for nike, the reason we know his name is because of jordan

3. a world of dada or reebok? would that be a bad thing?...those places have designers too, that work just as hard

granted we are talking about nike, but there have been plenty of influential designers @ nike (& with other brands as well, who aren't as well known, whose names we don't & will prolly never know like the aforementioned E. Scott Morris, Bruce Kilgore, Scott Hewett, Kyle Pulli, Jon Morris, etc)...man i wish kicksology was still around...

i can't really put one in front on the other....but if i had to choose, i'd rock with avar as my#1...with tinker 1a
1. I guess you could say that, but would you agree that the whole visible air concept really helped Nike along?  Wasnt Tinker responsible for that?  I mean Im not dicussing who made Nike what it is on a business level, Im speaking strictly on the level of designers and potential influences.

2. is designing for Jordan really a blessing?  I'd say its a gift and a curse.  if anything, I could argue that Tinker is as important to Jordans sneaker legacy as Jordan is himself. Look at the popularity of the Jordan shoes NOT designed by Tinker vs. shoes he did design, and consider the large percentage of sneaker consumers doesnt have a clue nor care who Tinker is. Look at Lebron and Kobe.  theyre both huge stars, yet their shoes dont sell nearly as well as Jordan in his playing days.  that could be attributed to a number of things, but to assume that just because a person is designing for the flagship player(s) of the company is a blessing is a stretch in my opinion.  

3. would it be a bad thing?  Maybe.  how many pairs of Dada's and Reebok do you own compared to Nike? Are you saying that Dada and Reebok have designs that are consistantly comparable to Nike?  I never said they dont have designers that work just as hard, so Im not sure why you even took that angle and I really dont see what work ethic has to do with it.    


1. no doubt visible air pushed the sneaker game to a new place...but like i mentioned, the designs are part of a philosophy that made them influential; parts of the whole. we can't really talk about design influence in isolation, because the way they told the whole story made it influential...the main is a reason we don't know who the designer/creator of the L.A. Gear light shoes is, or up until the 20th anniv of the pump who paul litchfield was is those companies did not traditionally celebrate design...

2. designing for a transcendental athlete named jordan (in his prime) is pretty much ALL blessing...look no doubt there is a TON of pressure if you are the one designing, but it isn't a coincidence that the of the least liked jays are the ones mj DID NOT wear (including tinkers ix, x[?], & xv) and while there a whole lot of people that like the design of jordans, i'd wager they are outnumbered by those whose just consider jordans status symbols or just associate the brand to quality...& and while lebron & kobe are superstars, they are NOWHERE IN THE VICINITY of mike, plus hoop shoes aren't nearly as popular nor is the culture where it was in the 90s, not to mention how saturated the footwear market is...to be clear, i'm not saying its easy to design for a marquee name, but on the whole it is a net positive because you get more room to move with marquee product...

3. c'mon son...your answer kinda it implies that nike designs are somehow better by default. suffice it to say that my point was just those companies have designers too and while nike makes great designs, they do not have a monopoly on such (besides marketshare)...imagine the hyperdunk dropping without the lightweight story, without explaining what flywire was; the buzz & curiosity wouldn't be there because it be just another in the sea of shoes out here...which is what i imagine what people prolly think when seeing most of these shoes that show up in the marketplace year after year thinking why should i pay attention to, much less, buy all these shoes...

I too often thought putting a Placard about the original Design Concept and story of a shoe being put into the Box was something some folks would love. Taking it a step further.. the way Jordan use to have a Video of himself and a commercial playing at FNL or FTL why not have a video playing of the Design Process and story of that shoe going so Consumers can feel more connected to that shoe?

I think it would go a long way.. We always talk about a story being told.. but how many people actually know or see that story? They just see a shoe and a pricepoint. They have no knowledge of its story.

Theres always a story behind the shoe....if there's not.. its probably not meant for Retail anyway.


definitely! though, the reality is sometimes the story may not be at all compelling or something that could/should be shared...

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I like Eric Avar and Aaron Cooper. When I started getting into shoe design, those 2 were the ones that I tried to style myself after. Jason Petrie is also def up there as his early early work on NT inspired me to get into shoe design.

after tinker, there is none.

Its a toss up. Tinker and Avar. They both shocked the shoe industry with something unseen.
EA set JB up with a great design from the get go.

OG
  

Probably one of the more productive and interesting threads I've seen on here in a while.

Great info. I didn't realize Avar has so many classics! Wow. Great stuff.

Originally Posted by RhInoSpOrt

EA set JB up with a great design from the get go.

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Now that i never knew, but when you think about it, it does have a few characteristics of some of his other shoes.

VER VERY VER VERY VERY Good Thread Tinker and AVAR Get my VOTES

Timeless designs and the most revered designer ever= Tinker Hatfield

Best designer in the game now= Eric Avar

Up and coming talent= Jason Petrie

This thread did much better than those Lebron vs. Kobe threads.

Nice to see all the much deserved appreciation for all the designers. Hard to pick just one, that's for sure!

I'll say one thing. Tinker Hatfield has really mentored only a few of the designers and have taken them "under his wing" and been involved in their design processes throughout the years. Eric Avar and Aaron Cooper, in particular, have been beneficiary "students" of Tinker's tutelage since the beginning. Tinker has had the advantage of having a background in Architectural Design, which pretty much is the platform for all his designs/concepts. The other stuff just comes from flat-out creativity and brainstorming. So he basically combines problem-solving formulas with how to make something aesthetically bold. You can pretty much say he's "part genius, part mad man".

Also keep in mind folks that sometimes a design can be from a collaboration of people involved in the design process, like from a Footwear Developer to a Materials Developer to a PLM and so on and so forth. But the original designer is publicized for the initial conceptual design/drawing.

DAMN i've been missing out on this thread!!

Originally Posted by AirUpHere23

Timeless designs and the most revered designer ever= Tinker Hatfield

Best designer in the game now= Eric Avar

Up and coming talent= Jason Petrie

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Thing is it seems like in the 90s, Nike were a lot more prepared to take risks than they are now.

I hope Petrie gets the freedom to prove himself.

Originally Posted by swingshot

Thing is it seems like in the 90s, Nike were a lot more prepared to take risks than they are now.

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Unfortunately, designers and their design teams have A LOT more restrictions nowadays. Tighter rules, regulations, and policies(both global and industry-wide) pretty much dictate the process along with strict timelines and stiffer competition from others, and sometimes have a stranglehold on the industry as a whole. In addition, the economy is way more complicated then it once was, which limits a good amount of "possibilities" that can be put out in the market. It is definitely getting harder to stay on top year by year.

We try to shift and shuffle people/designers around into other categories to try and stir up the "creative juices" and get "new blood" in to hopefully create a new energy for that category. Sometimes it blends in well right off-the-bat, and other times it takes some time for everyone to fuse together.


This place went through a pretty significant move/overhaul for the better.

And this place went through a minimal "reorganization". 

Still the best in the business dwell in both places!
  

Yeah... I think the minimal should have been more significant but Im just one opinion. Many of those who do good work are still in place and thats a good thing. Some folks leading them.... mehh...

i was going to say who ever created the foamposite but, it looks like we have a name Eric Avar

Wasnt Visible air introduced by Bruce Kilgore, or the designer of the AJ2s instead of Tinker?
Tinker Hatfield designed the AJ3 which first introduced Visible Air, but i believe Bruce Kilgore or the designer of the AJ2 influenced/told Tinker to have the Air visible on the 3.

*edit: And i wish Petrie, Avar, heck even all Nike designers are able to do what they desire, i mean, who wouldn't want to see a new "foamposite" or something groundbreaking.
We need a rest from all these so called "new" shoes that are noticeably influenced by past designs, patterns, and materials.

I would really love to see a product, but knowing Nike, they will slowly, and painfully leak a product of that nature to us.

haven't read the whole thread yet, but I'm definitely one who doesnt' hold Tinker in as high a regard as a majority of heads. I was never *that* into Jordans so I guess that's why, but I do recognize his significance and what he's done. Pl
Due to when I really got into the shoe thing the first one I thought of was Aaron Cooper - but that's purely for sentimental reasons - what happened to this guy? He went away from basketball right? - what divisoin is he in  now? ....or company?

Thanks RockDeep for dropping some names though...I know what I'll be doing when I procrastinate now

Originally Posted by ElijahDukes

take away the III, IV, V, the XI,.... what can Tinker look back at?.... excluding trainers..... I admire Tinker for what he has created but eric is impressive...

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VI, XII, XIII


Some of the best of the entire line!!! Avar has been efficient over time though, but not as well as Tinker...I mean c'mon the dude made classics....w/o Tinker ther'd be no patent on the XI's!?!? aka NO SPACE JAM's!?!?! yea I think we get the pt.

sn: Jason Petrie is on the Rise w/ the LBJ VII's.....and dnt forget Mark Smith, not exactly a sneaker designer but the Laser etching is Legendary...

2) Eric Avar
3) Ken Link

I prefer Avar's designs over Tinker (Air Penny 1, Foamposite, Flightposite) but Tinker designed the shoes that I first fell in love with (Jordan VIII).

Of course I'm biased when I say Tinker is the greatest designer of all time, but I know that Eric Avar is undoubtedly 1A on the list.  Jason Petrie has really shown me something thus far with the LeBron VII, and VIII those are fantastic shoes.  Lastly I have to give credit to Wilson Smith because he designed the Air Jordan XVI and XVII which were some of the best Air Jordan's that have been released within the last 10 years and also generated alot of hype around the Air Jordan shoe that isn't really there today.

Originally Posted by jumpmanfan1

Originally Posted by ElijahDukes

take away the III, IV, V, the XI,.... what can Tinker look back at?.... excluding trainers..... I admire Tinker for what he has created but eric is impressive...

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VI, XII, XIII

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Some of the best of the entire line!!! Avar has been efficient over time though, but not as well as Tinker...I mean c'mon the dude made classics....w/o Tinker ther'd be no patent on the XI's!?!? aka NO SPACE JAM's!?!?! yea I think we get the pt.

sn: Jason Petrie is on the Rise w/ the LBJ VII's.....and dnt forget Mark Smith, not exactly a sneaker designer but the Laser etching is Legendary...



Mark Smith does indeed design sneakers for his job.