NT's LEGAL Gun Thread UPDATE...First Youtube Firearm Review Page 61

[maserati harm]

Originally Posted by AR Guy

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by Rapsteady1

I don't know much about guns, but my dad gave this to me as a present when I graduated college.

Well your dad gave you an excellent sidearm as a graduation present. Those H&K's look heavy but are really light, and they are also very accurate. As a matter of fact that is a version of the pistol that was used for the Mark 23 SOCOM Offensive pistol. Have you put any rounds through it?

Just so you know your dad is the man. If that is a MK23 you got a $1600+ for free. The only thing is a MK23 is a big #$% pistol, about as big as a Desert Eagle.

That's not a MK23, thats a USP (.45 I believe)

MK23 is Huge compared to that big as a Desert Eagle And it's more like $2000+..

*click spoiler to see size comparison*

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler [+]

Spoiler

I want one bad...

 

[rapsteady1]

---

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by Rapsteady1

I don't know much about guns, but my dad gave this to me as a present when I graduated college.

Well your dad gave you an excellent sidearm as a graduation present. Those H&K's look heavy but are really light, and they are also very accurate. As a matter of fact that is a version of the pistol that was used for the Mark 23 SOCOM Offensive pistol. Have you put any rounds through it?

I really didn't realize the significance of this gun... I keep it stored away in my closet.
I've never shot it either...... I know,

for me.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

^^^ No stoneface for you actually. By you keeping it unfired only keeps the value of it high.

Ok ok. We've been pretty civil in here, but now it's time for some debates if you are interested in doing so. Gun guys hold pretty strong beliefs about particular products and will defend them pretty strong.

Examples: 1911's versus the rest of the gun world

. Glock versus XD, 9mm versus other calibers, M-16/AR's versus AK's/variants, Eotech versus Aimpoint (I'm calling you out AR Guy...all in good debate my dude), Revolver versus Semi-Auto, RPG versus ..nah just kiddin.

 

[koolkam]

where can i get cheap bullets for the range online

 

[ar guy]

Originally Posted by Theta

Originally Posted by AR Guy

Originally Posted by Theta

hey guys i got some questions about this stuff. why do you guys buy all of these guns and honestly, what do you do with them? i mean, a lot of this stuff is beyond basic home protection (like the aks and ARs) so is it for the sake of collection, is it for sport, or is it just for the enjoyment of shooting them? a detailed explanation would be really helpful.

im in no way critical. im a hardcore libertarian, 2nd amendment all the way type guy. im just curious as to why you guys spend this type of money on this stuff. do you think its worth getting into? (ive been considering it) how do you guys store this stuff? is it accessible just in case or locked up?

basically id like to know how the life of a gun collector is like with respect to his firearms. again, any info would be helpful and its clear that a lot of you guys know your stuff lolI

I own my AR because I can, also the Second Amendment guarantees my right too. And just so you know an AR is arguably the best firearm for home protection with the correct ammunition. That's why SWAT teams and police across the country and  switching away from guns like the MP5 and to AR15s.

wow really? i understand that an AR doesnt compare to a handgun, but isnt it kind of overkill for protecting your home or is it actually significantly better? also what type of gun license or permit would i need to get one? thanks for the info btw

A 75gr HP will penetrate fewer interior walls than most handgun rounds because its a light weight round moving very fast. And the whole license/permit thing is an invention of the media. You need a permit to conceal carry but to just purchase, just head down to your local gun shop and buy away. 

But I will be getting my Class III to be able to legally own full-auto and short barrel M4's. It isn't as hard as it sounds to get one DEPENDING where you reside...you must get a signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your county...usually the Sheriff. Anyway I hope this answers at least soem of your questions my fellow NT'er.


Your best bet in getting some Class III items would be to form a Trust or a LLC because most Sheriffs won't sign off for them.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Originally Posted by AR Guy

Originally Posted by Theta

Originally Posted by AR Guy

Originally Posted by Theta

hey guys i got some questions about this stuff. why do you guys buy all of these guns and honestly, what do you do with them? i mean, a lot of this stuff is beyond basic home protection (like the aks and ARs) so is it for the sake of collection, is it for sport, or is it just for the enjoyment of shooting them? a detailed explanation would be really helpful.

im in no way critical. im a hardcore libertarian, 2nd amendment all the way type guy. im just curious as to why you guys spend this type of money on this stuff. do you think its worth getting into? (ive been considering it) how do you guys store this stuff? is it accessible just in case or locked up?

basically id like to know how the life of a gun collector is like with respect to his firearms. again, any info would be helpful and its clear that a lot of you guys know your stuff lolI

I own my AR because I can, also the Second Amendment guarantees my right too. And just so you know an AR is arguably the best firearm for home protection with the correct ammunition. That's why SWAT teams and police across the country and  switching away from guns like the MP5 and to AR15s.

wow really? i understand that an AR doesnt compare to a handgun, but isnt it kind of overkill for protecting your home or is it actually significantly better? also what type of gun license or permit would i need to get one? thanks for the info btw

A 75gr HP will penetrate fewer interior walls than most handgun rounds because its a light weight round moving very fast. And the whole license/permit thing is an invention of the media. You need a permit to conceal carry but to just purchase, just head down to your local gun shop and buy away. 

But I will be getting my Class III to be able to legally own full-auto and short barrel M4's. It isn't as hard as it sounds to get one DEPENDING where you reside...you must get a signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your county...usually the Sheriff. Anyway I hope this answers at least soem of your questions my fellow NT'er.

Your best bet in getting some Class III items would be to form a Trust or a LLC because most Sheriffs won't sign off for them.


You are correct in most cases. But honestly it depends on who you know and what you do. I have more than a handful of insiders. 

Edited to add: AR Guy, from what I have learned the best way is to get a signature if it's possible, the ATF totally recognizes that method. If no signature is able to be obtained then the NFA Trust/LLC route is the other option, but it is kinda sticky as far as ATF adoption.

 

[rocman23]

im looking into purchasing for home defense and I don't know what to get. Ive also never owned or shot guns

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Originally Posted by rocman23

im looking into purchasing for home defense and I don't know what to get. Ive also never owned or shot guns

Hey, if there is a shooting range in your area that rents guns for the range, then go ask some questions and get some trigger time. It's good to start with a 9mm. Possibly even a Walther P22 to get used to the gun going BANG!! after you squeeze the trigger

.

 

[dathbgboy]

Originally Posted by Theta

Originally Posted by AR Guy

Originally Posted by Theta

hey guys i got some questions about this stuff. why do you guys buy all of these guns and honestly, what do you do with them? i mean, a lot of this stuff is beyond basic home protection (like the aks and ARs) so is it for the sake of collection, is it for sport, or is it just for the enjoyment of shooting them? a detailed explanation would be really helpful.

im in no way critical. im a hardcore libertarian, 2nd amendment all the way type guy. im just curious as to why you guys spend this type of money on this stuff. do you think its worth getting into? (ive been considering it) how do you guys store this stuff? is it accessible just in case or locked up?

basically id like to know how the life of a gun collector is like with respect to his firearms. again, any info would be helpful and its clear that a lot of you guys know your stuff lolI

I own my AR because I can, also the Second Amendment guarantees my right too. And just so you know an AR is arguably the best firearm for home protection with the correct ammunition. That's why SWAT teams and police across the country and  switching away from guns like the MP5 and to AR15s.

wow really? i understand that an AR doesnt compare to a handgun, but isnt it kind of overkill for protecting your home or is it actually significantly better? also what type of gun license or permit would i need to get one? thanks for the info btw

As far as quick protection, of course a hand gun is better. But a rifle is better when u have to time grab it and shoot, imo.  There are civilian AR's and M4's so all you would really need is a gun permit depending on your state. Technically, u don't need a license at all to neither purchase nor posses a rifle since it will be in your home. In PA, u need a license to carry, not to purchase or own in your home.

If you want a more military grade of an AR/M4, etc, then u're looking into a Class III certification which has to be approved by the local sheriff on top of your gun permit. Also, u have to pay a $200 fee to the ATF upon approval of the rifle. I'm sure if he hasn't already, Elder can go more into semantics. I'm just goin off my researched knowledge because I want to own a class III weapon one day

 

[rocman23]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by rocman23

im looking into purchasing for home defense and I don't know what to get. Ive also never owned or shot guns

Hey, if there is a shooting range in your area that rents guns for the range, then go ask some questions and get some trigger time. It's good to start with a 9mm. Possibly even a Walther P22 to get used to the gun going BANG!! after you squeeze the trigger

.

ok, thanks. Ive heard that shotguns would good for home defense, whats your take on that

 

[s2kray]

hey all. i recently visited the philippines last summer and found out everyone in my family shoots a gun... even my 10 year old cousin! (who was schooling me on how to use his .22 on the range).. now i've fired a gun a few times before at a range but did not realize the extent of my handgun noobishness until then..

unfortunately, and fortunately i am also an officer in the navy on my way to becoming a medical officer once i finish medical school. i plan on serving 1 or 2 years as batallion surgeon for the marines. now  i've been to officer development school in Newport, RI, but they didn't train us doctors-to-be on how to handle a fire arm. i can put a magazine in, %@!$, and shoot  (although not  very well), but other than that am completely clueless. do any of you have any advice on  how to step my gun knowledge up? i don't want my first time really handling a weapon to be at the  pistol quals where i can look like a complete tool in front of marines.

i have an estimated 3 years before i am deployable and  currently reside in fl. it is to my understanding that fl has pretty lax gun laws (as compared to my former residence in ny).

 

[seattle206]

Beautiful day in Seattle!  Too bad my schedule is keeping me busy but I got a little extra spare time today before Mothers day dinner and took a few quick shots of several rifles. 

Hate posting unfinished projects but with everybody showing pics of their weapons I need to contribute too.

I plan to do shots for all my guns when spring quarter ends.

Starting with my April pickups.

I'm sure none of you guys are SKS enthusiast but I was lucky to get a hold of an unfired, rare factory 36 Norinco SKS, this is a very early import SKS from China, straight communist military export, not commerial production.

Another pickup was Norinco MAK-90 AK-47.  Brand new unfired.  Will need to deban this but getting rid of that nasty looking thumbhole stock and replace with original Chinese AK furniture, replace the FSB with a non-neutered one, get a cleaning rod, thread muzzle, and get a slant brake

The Mak with look like his brother after I'm finished with him.

And two of my four AR15's/M4 variants.  These are expensive to play with, ammo prices, sights, optics, furniture, rails, blah, blah and all that fancy stuff that will never be used in battle.  I only have an Eotech XPS3 on one of my ARs.  I'm putting money aside every once in a while so I can afford to outfit all of them at once with Aimpoints and Eotechs.

This is a CMMG 14.5"bbl M4.  Just has a YHM Phanton flash hider, Daniel Defense Omega 7.0 rail, Knights Armament Covers + vertical foregrip, Magpul MIAD, Troy flip-up buis.  I'll probably get a LMT Sopmod stock on this and the Aimpoint and call it a day.

This is my Sabre Defense M4.  Troy rail, Troy flip-up buis, Magpul Moe, Knights Armament covers + vertical grip.  Will finish off with an Eotech and a Phantom FC1 FH.

I got two more AR15s, a Del-ton and a Daniel Defense M4.  Will post them next time.

 

[dathbgboy]

Originally Posted by Seattle206

I got two more AR15s, a Del-ton and a Daniel Defense M4.  Will post them next time.

U know u gon have to give me the rundown on that DDM4 right? I've had that on my radar for some months now. Need to hear the pros and cons of it, best choose of ammo etc. plz and thank you

 

[i3rianf]

You going to war Seattle206?

 

[seattle206]

Originally Posted by Dathbgboy

Originally Posted by Seattle206

I got two more AR15s, a Del-ton and a Daniel Defense M4.  Will post them next time.

U know u gon have to give me the rundown on that DDM4 right? I've had that on my radar for some months now. Need to hear the pros and cons of it, best choose of ammo etc. plz and thank you

Pros:  Cold hammer forged barrel fully MPI test, fit and finish is up to par with noveske rifles IMO, bolt and carrier is fully MPI test.  Absolutley one of the top tier ARs, up their with BCM and Sabre.  I've shoot it very little, only put about 100rds through it.  Shot PMC 55gr, SS109 62gr, XM193 5.56 55gr, and Hornady TAP 75gr.  Best groupings came out of the XM.  Didnt have any failures with it out of the box and shouldn't but it'll be put to the test this coming summer.

Cons: None except expect to dish out about $1200 for a basic model.  Reason I bought mine was that aimsurplus had it for LESS THAN $900!!  I couldn't resist!  It was a straight impluse buy but one I do not regret!


  

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Don't forget DPMS Panther Arms as one of the top AR Manufacturers as well. For example my Black Rifle is actually the Panther Mark 12 Special Purpose Rifle which is built off the specs of the Special Purpose Rifle Mod 0 which was outfitted to the Green Berets, SEALS, Delta, DevGru, and Army Rangers. Mine came with LMT Sopmod stock, free floating barrel so basically the barrel doesn't touch the handguard or rails at any point to reduce harmonics which decreases accuracy. Two stage match grade trigger, CAA custom grips, stainless steel teflon coated heavy barrel which is only found on high end AR's, quad rails, Midwest industries front flip up sight, ARMS rear flip up sight, and a true 5.56 chamber. All the metal is teflon coated, heat treated and hard anondized for toughness as well. Now that is a high end AR and all that came standard.

I use 77 Grain Sierra Open Tip Match ammo. That coupled with the 1x8 or 1 x7 twist barrel is one of the longest range most accurate rounds you can find in 5.56 that will still fit in an M-16 magazine without a problem. Like I showed in my pictures earlier, I'm grouping 5 rounds in an a half inch at 100 yards away. That's a sub MOA semi-automatic weapon...that accuracy is usually only found in bolt action rifles. Only thing, the rifle is expensive if you can find it and the ammo is almost $1.00 per round. But that's why I don't buy a lot of weapons, but the ones I do have is going to be top of the line. All I have left to purchase is a Benelli M4 12 gauge, also known as the M-1014 (pictured below) then I'll have my small collection complete.

 

[the g0d mc]

Timetravelinn -
the smith and wesson is a very solid gun. i've held one in my hand and the ergonomics on it felt really good, and it allows you to maintain a pretty high grip to reduce recoil affecting your aim. the magpul guys swear by it these days, but it could also be due to s&w handing out some payola. nonetheless, they are good guns. you might want to try the springfield xd series. i'm a glock guy but i admit the grip does not feel as natural as the before mentioned firearms.

18th letter-
you can still own an ar15. you just either need to modify the gun to accomodate a "bullet button" and the mag have to stay at 10 rounds. or you can purchase a modified stock/grip as shown here:
http://californiarifles.com/

last i checked, thumbhole stocks and pistol grip are not allowed on ar's if you want to run a detachable mag, so you're left with monstrosities that look like that. give and take though.

Seattle206-
very nice norinco stuff. i'm not much of a collector (house takes up most of my money to do so) so most of my purchases are practical. hence the glock and remy i keep. i really did like my p6 though. i was considering making a p250 compact my second purchase, but sig's reputation of being "wet" guns made me swerve towards the glock, because i am a cheap, lazy bastard. trying to save up for a h&k usp compact in .45. one of my dream guns. or a kimber 1911. thankfully my lady LOVES the way 1911's look so she doesn't have too much of an issue of me buying an additional gun down the line when money frees up.

ElderWatsonDiggs-
i'll start a debate with my very limited knowledge, so go easy on me. remy's > mossy. yes, my 870 has issues with steel bottomed ammo, but other than that it's eaten up other rounds just fine. my 870 might have only one extractor but it's frickin huge, so i'm not too worried about that potential issue. i like steel receivers over aluminum, but i will concede that the mossberg safety is much better than that on my remington. either way, both great guns but i like the 870 over the 590. tempted to put a heatguard over the barrel but it's already somewhat ninjafied so the jury's out on that.

 

[6dollaburger]

Just got my Rosen shoulder holster yesterday..

Feel like Miami Vice. haha..

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

By the way, I must say that your collection is immaculate 206. You have a nice range of rare weapons and also some really nice modern ones as well. My favorite of your collection has to be the PSL, I like Drags and any variant of Russian designated marksman rifles. If I was ever in Washington I'd hope I could go shooting with you.

Just got my Rosen shoulder holster yesterday..

Feel like Miami Vice. haha..

Boss!!!

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Originally Posted by The G0d MC

Timetravelinn -
the smith and wesson is a very solid gun. i've held one in my hand and the ergonomics on it felt really good, and it allows you to maintain a pretty high grip to reduce recoil affecting your aim. the magpul guys swear by it these days, but it could also be due to s&w handing out some payola. nonetheless, they are good guns. you might want to try the springfield xd series. i'm a glock guy but i admit the grip does not feel as natural as the before mentioned firearms.

18th letter-
you can still own an ar15. you just either need to modify the gun to accomodate a "bullet button" and the mag have to stay at 10 rounds. or you can purchase a modified stock/grip as shown here:
http://californiarifles.com/

last i checked, thumbhole stocks and pistol grip are not allowed on ar's if you want to run a detachable mag, so you're left with monstrosities that look like that. give and take though.

Seattle206-
very nice norinco stuff. i'm not much of a collector (house takes up most of my money to do so) so most of my purchases are practical. hence the glock and remy i keep. i really did like my p6 though. i was considering making a p250 compact my second purchase, but sig's reputation of being "wet" guns made me swerve towards the glock, because i am a cheap, lazy bastard. trying to save up for a h&k usp compact in .45. one of my dream guns. or a kimber 1911. thankfully my lady LOVES the way 1911's look so she doesn't have too much of an issue of me buying an additional gun down the line when money frees up.

ElderWatsonDiggs-
i'll start a debate with my very limited knowledge, so go easy on me. remy's > mossy. yes, my 870 has issues with steel bottomed ammo, but other than that it's eaten up other rounds just fine. my 870 might have only one extractor but it's frickin huge, so i'm not too worried about that potential issue. i like steel receivers over aluminum, but i will concede that the mossberg safety is much better than that on my remington. either way, both great guns but i like the 870 over the 590. tempted to put a heatguard over the barrel but it's already somewhat ninjafied so the jury's out on that.

From what I understand Remy's are a little more quality than the Mossbergs, but it seems as if Mossberg has more of a variety of shotguns. Ok i'll admit a lot of them are tacti-cool versions, but I'm really feeling the Mossy 930 SPX at only $650 for a nice semi-auto shotgun. You cannot go wrong with either to be honest, but you pointing out the small differences is duly noted.

 

[seattle206]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

By the way, I must say that your collection is immaculate 206. You have a nice range of rare weapons and also some really nice modern ones as well. My favorite of your collection has to be the PSL, I like Drags and any variant of Russian designated marksman rifles. If I was ever in Washington I'd hope I could go shooting with you.

Just got my Rosen shoulder holster yesterday..

Feel like Miami Vice. haha..

Boss!!!




Washington as in DC?  Thanks for the compliment, you got yourself a real nice rifle set up man.  Never shot a mark XII before, I would like to see what I can do wit it.
  

 

[frank mucus]

Originally Posted by Seattle206

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

By the way, I must say that your collection is immaculate 206. You have a nice range of rare weapons and also some really nice modern ones as well. My favorite of your collection has to be the PSL, I like Drags and any variant of Russian designated marksman rifles. If I was ever in Washington I'd hope I could go shooting with you.

Just got my Rosen shoulder holster yesterday..

Feel like Miami Vice. haha..

Boss!!!

Washington as in DC?  Thanks for the compliment, you got yourself a real nice rifle set up man.  Never shot a mark XII before, I would like to see what I can do wit it.
  
He's referring to Washington, as in the state, hence your sn. Nice guns nonetheless.

 

[the g0d mc]

ElderWatsonDiggs-
the spx is a GREAT buy for a semi-auto shotgun. very reliable and a great price point. i chose a pump because i like the ease of maintenance. semi-autos are relatively new to me, so i rolled with the good ole reliable pump. yeah i give up the amount of rounds i can put downrange, but there's less parts to potentially malfunction as well.


you run any other rigs besides that 5.11? i've heard good things about bcm's split front chest rig but that price is crazy. i'm trying to figure out how to run a shotgun rig, so i think i'm stuck with the ats warbelt option with a blackhawk strike shell carrier, and maybe a dump pouch full of ammo.

your shop wouldn't happen to ship to cali would it? always happy to give another nter some business if the prices are fair. looking for another g19 to replace my g30 that i've put up for sale recently.

ps - nice trident brodie. i have the same one but in tiger stripe. definitely one of the better "tac" folders out there, the arc lock mechanism sold me to it over crkt's m21/m16.

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Originally Posted by The G0d MC

ElderWatsonDiggs-
the spx is a GREAT buy for a semi-auto shotgun. very reliable and a great price point. i chose a pump because i like the ease of maintenance. semi-autos are relatively new to me, so i rolled with the good ole reliable pump. yeah i give up the amount of rounds i can put downrange, but there's less parts to potentially malfunction as well.


you run any other rigs besides that 5.11? i've heard good things about bcm's split front chest rig but that price is crazy. i'm trying to figure out how to run a shotgun rig, so i think i'm stuck with the ats warbelt option with a blackhawk strike shell carrier, and maybe a dump pouch full of ammo.

your shop wouldn't happen to ship to cali would it? always happy to give another nter some business if the prices are fair. looking for another g19 to replace my g30 that i've put up for sale recently.

ps - nice trident brodie. i have the same one but in tiger stripe. definitely one of the better "tac" folders out there, the arc lock mechanism sold me to it over crkt's m21/m16.

I'll check General Jackson's in Fayetteville NC tomorrow, they have a decent Tac-vest and pouch selection there. I was looking online for some shotgun pouches and besides the Blackhawk Strike I saw a few more. I'll post pics and links after the text. If there is any problem shipping to Cali let me know, maybe I'm crazy but I'll help a fellow NT'er out and I'll trust y'all in here. Check this, I picked up that 5.11 up at a Tactical store in Baghdad for only $35.00 on clearance...but they got me back when I paid $110 for my Trident

, slick bastards. I bought my pouches at General Jackson's in Fayettville. That vest has a slot for a CamelBak bladder BTW and also has connections to link to war belts. This A-Team dude was trying to get me up on those $400 plate carrier tac-vests, but I figure I don't have any ceramic plates, plus I wanted a lightweight ventilated ones so I went with 5.11. By the way...those Serpa pistol holsters are the JOINT!!! You can find them for almost all the popular pistols. I got up on those after seeing the frogmen carry their Sigs in them. Only $49.99 too. How much did you pay for your Trident?

http://www.tactical-store.com/ts-t1-pc-ecbefe.html

http://www.tactical-store.com/ts-m0-pc-cedefc.html

 

[seattle206]

He's referring to Washington, as in the state, hence your sn. Nice guns nonetheless.

Ha, I misread it!  Yeah for sure, if youre ever by Seattle we'll go shooting.  Ammos on me!