Kobe II in retrospect

mister jack johnson

mister jack johnson

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Was this shoe, or series of shoes, a success or failure? The original concept was for Kobe to wear three different shoes for different phases of his game, alldepending on needs. Did his needs change, or was the concept flawed from the beginning, therefore a flop?

My thoughts:
It was a flop. There was a huge risk in thinking that people outside of the Kobe fans on Nike Talk, actually wanted, or needed, 3 Kobe shoes. Instead of makingone good shoe, the first one released garnered all of the attention, leaving the "strength", in the dust, then putting the "lite", on thebackburner. The first release is now considered THE II here on NikeTalk, with a hype driven core considering the shoe to be THAT shoe, by some here onNikeTalk. That OPINION is subjective, but I've worn it, tried to play in it, and then found the Zoom BB to be the much better Nike Hoops shoe by a mile.The reason is the fit, and also questioning if there was a necessity of the 'bells and whistles' that were featured with the now labeled ZKII. For mewhen a shoe has too much going on, it can be a hinderance for what we are supposed to be doing on court. Then it also has been proven that those hoop shoesthat feature so much "tech", inner bootie, ankle collar, free inspired outsole, ankle strap, carbon fiber, blah, blah, blah, never seem to do well atthe registers, unless the name is JORDAN.

Your thoughts...
 
My main problem with the concept is that they did not see it thru, Nike left us hanging with the lites as an Asia exclusive, but I really liked bothversions that were released in the US, but I agree with Jack that the zoom bb is a much better basketball shoe, and would go as far as to say that they are thebest Nike basketball sneakers in a long while.
 
For a guy that really LOVES Adidas or whatever you like, you always talking about Nike's and Kobe's shoes. The fact that you had to create a post aboutthis shoe proves to me that you secretly like Nike's and Kobe's shoes. Even the ZK line supporters haven't made a topic like this.

But to answer your question I think the concept was fairly successful. From my understanding the shoes sold pretty well which is all the company cares about.From the idea of the 3 shoe concept shoe, I think they failed. To release 3 shoes under the same name in one season is alot unless the shoes are Jordan's.I think the concept failed for two reasons. First the shoes did not have any commercial or marketing push behind them so the consumer could not reallyunderstand what they were trying to do with the 3 concept shoe. Second, Nike waited until April to release the shoe. Nike should have released the Sheath earlyin the season like late October, early November. The Shealth's would have sold better because at the time Kobe was considered a strong MVP candidate andhis team was doing really good and there was alot of good press surrounding him going into the All-Star break. Then they could have brought out the Strengtharound all star weekend. Then the Lites could have been released toward the end of the season going into the playoffs.

As far as the BB being a better shoe, it should be a better shoe because it was released afterward the ZKII and I wouldn't even consider them coming out inthe same season.
 
Originally Posted by reggie2k8

For a guy that really LOVES Adidas or whatever you like, you always talking about Nike's and Kobe's shoes. The fact that you had to create a post about this shoe proves to me that you secretly like Nike's and Kobe's shoes. Even the ZK line supporters haven't made a topic like this.

But to answer your question I think the concept was fairly successful. From my understanding the shoes sold pretty well which is all the company cares about. From the idea of the 3 shoe concept shoe, I think they failed. To release 3 shoes under the same name in one season is alot unless the shoes are Jordan's. I think the concept failed for two reasons. First the shoes did not have any commercial or marketing push behind them so the consumer could not really understand what they were trying to do with the 3 concept shoe. Second, Nike waited until April to release the shoe. Nike should have released the Sheath early in the season like late October, early November. The Shealth's would have sold better because at the time Kobe was considered a strong MVP candidate and his team was doing really good and there was alot of good press surrounding him going into the All-Star break. Then they could have brought out the Strength around all star weekend. Then the Lites could have been released toward the end of the season going into the playoffs.

As far as the BB being a better shoe, it should be a better shoe because it was released afterward the ZKII and I wouldn't even consider them coming out in the same season.
Click to expand...
This is the Nike Forum, why would I come here and talk 'bout anything other than Nike shoes? The ZK line supporters didn't make this topic,because they are now on to hyping the next ZKFailure.

Also, you can talk about not having commercials all you want,but I think that we can point to alot of shoes that had major commercial spots, SHOX immediatelycome to mind, that failed as well.

But this is your opinion, just like the strange assertion that the Zoom BB is a better shoe, because it was released AFTER the ZKII
eyes.gif
 
I think the release date had more to do with the "failure" of this shoe than anything. To release a basketball shoe in April, unless it is a specialplay-off color, is a death knell for that model. Who buys the most basketball shoes these day? High school players who need them in October-November, not inApril when the school season is over. I know AAU and Select teams are in the summer, but most kids don't play on a hig-level sponsored team, so what theyget in the fall lasts them awhile. Also, like Jack said, hi-tech lately has crashed and burned. The Jordan XXII, supposedly the most hi-tech shoe on themarket, is on clearance here for less than $100, and has full sizes at multiple stores. I know it is a year later, but ten years ago they were gone by summer.Also, in my opinion, they should have released all three shoes at the same time, like the Elite series, and let the players choose. It may not have made moremoney, but it would have made more sense for marketing with the tactics they took (this shoe is for the game, this is for when I need strength, this is laterwhen I am tired). One reason the BB is better is because of a lack of bells and whistles, so it is straight out of the box more comfortable and more accesiblefor the everyday Joe baller. Look at the next Kobe. It is back to a sock-like feel with a straight-forward outsole, almost looking like the ZK1. I know theupper looks futuristic, but is it really that moch difference in the lines and feel and fit than the Zoom BB? As for Shox being a failure; the Zoom BB4 wasnowhere near that. It was just a lack of technological advancement in the product. I argued a few weeks ago about this- adidas started off with a3 foamcolumns, then Structure, then Bounce, with different forms of foams and columns in between. They advanced the technology. Nike put in a full-foot, but that wasit. Maybe they realized the farce that was Shox, or that there was nothing else to do with them.
 
Gotcha DUKE. Actually I wasn't talking about the BB4, my now FAVORITE NIKE HOOPS SHOE OF ALL TIME I was talking about the sales of the Shox as a whole,since it was introduced.

Adidas was smart enough to not rely on rep, instead advancing their product, in order to fit the consumers wants and needs.
 
This is sad. Why ignore a thought-provoking post like this? I know Jack rubs some the wrong way, but maybe this topic can start some useful dialogue, insteadof what color is your favorite Jordan or what to buy, 2k-?.
 
NONONONO! I want certain people to ignore me! I've asked quite a few to do so, therefore we can have honest discussions about Nike kicks and their truevalue! Especially being ignored by those who write puff pieces for Nike, in a mag that should be urinated upon.

Anyone who DOES play ball in their shoes will discuss this honestly, without brand loyalty.
 
if you know anything about coach hubie/mr.JJ you'll know that all of his post start out with good intentions, maybe, but when it comes down to it all hedoes is bash kobe and anything that has to do with kobe.
 
I am aware of all of his incarnations, and also his seeming dislike for Nike high-end/adidas love. But is an interesting topic and regardless of what you thinkof Jack, ignore him and dialogue with others. I like reading some of the older, respected members (I am older, probably not respected) opinions. It interestsme. I talk to Billy on that other board, and we always have good interaction. I don't know about assertions that he writes Nike propoganda. If I recall, inthe 90's issue, he wrote much love for adidas in the retro reviews. He also downed the B'Loyal and Maestro retro, so let's tap the brake a little.
 
Like I said before, there's no need for Nike to "bash" adidas. Their sales figures do that to themselves already. Until you reach the 16.3billion dollar revenue mark, then we should start worrying. Other then that, there's no one else in our "rearview mirror" for miles.


IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING .......kinda' like your revenue...........and your marketing(or lack of it).......and your poor advertisingcampaigns....... and the short list of signed athletes/endorsers. I think the last "big names" signed to your company were.....run dmc??????
 
Let's face it, the ZKII project was a failure. It was supposed to be 3 shoes, and it turned out to be ONE mediocre shoe dominating the others, leading to afailure of the project/concept.

Also, these people don't want me here because I am honest. I like Adidas, but Adidas isn't perfect either. I can go on for days about how they mess upas well, but this is a Nike Board, with a West Coast tilt.

No biggie, I can deal with being hated and ignored, but the fact remains that Nike Basketball is starting to become as irrelevant as Nike Running is presently.The only thing that saves Nike, is the sheer volume that they produce.

Kobe is a very good player in an NBA weakened through expansion. He is good, but not marketable in the US. The look and makeup of his Nike shoes aren'thelping. The arrogance of Nike thinking that they could put out 3 shoes and knock'em dead, proves how out of touch they are.

Nike's best shoe is the Zoom BB, a dynamite shoe. Too bad they mesed that up too.

So Kobe fans, PLEASE put me on IG, I am begging ya'!
 
Originally Posted by MenofOregon

Like I said before, there's no need for Nike to "bash" adidas. Their sales figures do that to themselves already. Until you reach the 16.3 billion dollar revenue mark, then we should start worrying. Other then that, there's no one else in our "rearview mirror" for miles.


IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING .......kinda' like your revenue...........and your marketing(or lack of it).......and your poor advertising campaigns....... and the short list of signed athletes/endorsers. I think the last "big names" signed to your company were.....run dmc??????
Click to expand...
Uhhh, sorry fella, I don't work for Adidas. I am a consumer, and guess what? I expect Nike employees to respond exactly how you do.

That same thought process is shown by putting out three shoes for one player, then falling back on the first release, calling it the best.

Why is Kobe wearing the 2k4, if the ZKII is so dang good???
 
LAME POST.... YES IT IS LAME... I AGREE THAT IT WASNT SUCCESSFUL IN THE STATES... BUT NIKE IS GLOBAL. NOT ONLY A U.S CONSUMER. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD.
 
As long as Kobes don't sell and I get to get my pairs for cheap as hell, it's a success for me. I wish they would sell less, so they would get cheaperfaster. I could care less about how they sell and how the marketing going from my perspective, and to be quite honest, don't understand people who do thataren't affiliated in any way.
 
Gonna have to agree with Jack Johnson on this one even though i may not like what hes saying. I mean FACTS are FACTS, the shoe/concept was a failure.
 
Let's not resort to name calling and slams, MenofOregon. We all know how this will end up if that happens. Slamming revenue and total market share was notthe point of this post. The success or failure of the AZK2 was the topic. Saying adidas hasn't signed anybody big is a blatant falsehood.I understand yoursarcasm, but be truthful. Right now adidas' stable of top talent is on par with Nike, and the ads they are putting out right now stay in consumers'heads more than Nike's of the past year.
 
Jack are you JM?

Yeah the zk2's did flop but hell its good for me. I like the shoes and I got them for a deep discount. I can't complain. If people want to pass on agreat ball shoe because kobe is wearing it, that is there problem.
 
Originally Posted by duke4005

Let's not resort to name calling and slams, MenofOregon. We all know how this will end up if that happens. Slamming revenue and total market share was not the point of this post. The success or failure of the AZK2 was the topic. Saying adidas hasn't signed anybody big is a blatant falsehood.I understand your sarcasm, but be truthful. Right now adidas' stable of top talent is on par with Nike, and the ads they are putting out right now stay in consumers' heads more than Nike's of the past year.
Click to expand...
With all due respect duke4005, I don't see anywhere in my post where I had any "name calling". If posting facts, data, and numbersare "slams" then yes, I am guilty of "slamming". True, the point of this post was about the Air Zoom Kobe II, so there should beNO NEED for him to mention his opinion about Nike SHOX, or how "Nike Basketball is starting to become as irrelevant asNike Running", correct?

"adidas' stable of top talent" are not as global and marketable as Nike's. They don't hold oversees tours or campaigns for them as strongas ours. And as far as this statement goes: "the ads they are putting out right now stay in consumers' heads more than Nike's of the pastyear.",....are you sure about that? Why is it that the consumer can remember a 'Griffey for President' ad, or a 'Lil' Penny' ad, or an'I SUCCEED' Jordan ad from more then 10 years ago, but an adidas ad isn't remembered as easily?

"adidas' stable of top talent":

mike conley
maurice williams
kyle lowry
rodney stuckey
leandro barbosa
javaris crittenton
antawn jamison
corey maggette
devin harris
jordan farmar
adam morrison
dwight howard
gilbert arenas
kevin garnett
tracy mcgrady
tim duncan
chauncey billups
josh smith
mike miller
marcus williams
raymond felton
tj ford
tony allen
martell webster

who in that list is "marketable"(either oversees or in the U.S.) other then the big 5???? I don't think I need to list the Nike roster do I?

david beckham????
martina hingis????
marat safin????
reggie bush????
 
I was referring to the "impossible is nothing-kind of like your revenue" line you used in the first post. Like I said, Jack is abrasive and hard tolike, but he brought up a good topic to start discussion. We don't even have to acknowledge him in our replies to each other. But if you read what I wrote,I said in the last year, not any Jordan from 10 years ago, or Penny, or Griffey ads. I meant from the last year, with the Impossible is Nothing, It Takes 5,etc. Sorry, but the only ad I remember from Nike this year was the Lebrons. And they died out pretty quickly last year. As for global marketing, how big isT-Mac in China? How about adidas soccer in Europe, which I know nothing about except for Beckham is the biggest name right now, and he wears ADIDAS. I am notsure of your "position" at Nike, nor have I read all of your posts, but I am sure you can see some of my points.
 
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