2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

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Yeah..

Just caught this one.

During a spring training game in Florida in 1925, Babe Ruth once was chased off the field not by an angry fan, but by an alligator

:lol:
 
Nina Agdal :nthat:
700
 
johnnyredstorm johnnyredstorm

Ichiro requests

Gwynn, Rose, Carew, Puckett, Manny, Pujols, Molitor, Ted Williams, Mattingly, Edgar Martinez, Jeter, Wade Boggs, and possibly A-Rod (though, don't know with the recent stuff) And then we still have all the real old school guys like Clemente, Gherig, etc etc etc that I have no way of knowing if true or not.

None of these guys hit 14 hoppers to the shortstop over and over and over and run real fast to get base hits.

Not sayin Ichiro isn't talented, or skilled at what he does, but come on with the superlatives. Dude slaps singles around the infield, congrats, save the best hitter crap for the guys who can actually hit the ball somewhere.

( :lol: at 14 hoppers)


I already said, he's good at what he does, slapping the ball around, pickin up those singles. Not sure why that hurts so much, but obviously some people are bleedin over this.

But as stated, I listed a dozen or so that were/are better hitters, and thinking on it last night, I can add Frank Thomas as well. Anyhoo, when you are counting those countless 4-4 nights with 4 singles, and usually a loss, do you ever wonder why in a big moment in the 8th inning, the supposedly "hit homeruns when he wants too" Ichiro, doesn't in fact hit a home run? Why is that?

All those singles and steals he piles up 30 games under .500 don't impress me. And as stated previously, I live 3 hours from Seattle, it is the "local" team here in Oregon, which means radio coverage, tv coverage, newspaper coverage, the works. So rest assured, I've seen more than 6 games. :lol:

Face it, he's nice at what he does, but what he doesn't do is hit for power, take pitches/walks, doesn't lead his team to wins, he just goes out there every day to get his 5 plate appearances, and get his 2 singles a night, steal a bag, lose the game, and then do it again the next day. Meanwhile you guys conitnue to worship him while even his own teammates question whether he just wants to "get his". Again, media coverage, there's a lot of talk out here. I hear lots.

Reyes, Rollins, Hanley, Soriano, Pedroia, all better leadoff hitters, and guys I'd rather have on my team. And I'm sure I forgot one or two.


We may or may not be arguin different things, I dunno, but my point is plain and simple, he's overrated. Why? Because people get hyped up and call him one of the greatest hitters of all time, when he is clearly not that. That = overrated to me.

Is he very good? Sure. Is he great at making contact at crazy angles? Yes. Does he get on base, sure. Are his numbers inflated? Yes, they are.

You can't say to back off of homeruns cuz he's a leadoff hitter, and then praise him for getting on base, when that is what he is supposed to do. Hanley can hit homeruns. Sori can. Rickey did. They're all leadoff hitters who put more pressure on a team then slapping a single in the hole.

Late in a game, runner on first base who would you rather face, the 3 leadoff hitters I just mentioned who could do various things, or Ichiro who you know will just hit a single. This greatest hitter of all time crap should be able to hit the homerun, or at least a gapper late in games shouldn't he? If he's so "great".

Do you see what I'm saying now? Saying how wonderful he is is fine, long as people aren't trying to put him up there with Ted, Pujols, Gwynn, Brett, Manny, Rose, etc etc etc THOSE are the greatest hitters of all time. (along with a few others) Ichiro is NOT in their category. Not even close.

Do you get where I'm comin from now?

Oh, and add Grady Sizemore, I'd take him before Ichiro in the leadoff spot too.


This is two damn days in a row Osh on my side on somethin.

Need to get a Nash thread goin or somethin :lol:

Anywho, as I said, Ichiro is skilled at what he does, slap the ball around, hits bad pitches, yay and yay. But this "he can hit homeruns is he wants too"......well since the Mariners do nothing but lose the last 6-7 years with him as their leader, why he don't hit one out when they down late in a game? Why the hell is he still slappin singles so nobody can drive him in?

He gets all these hits because he gets friggin 700 plate appearances a year and never walks. 200 hits great, 500 outs even more great huh?

He is the same as the run and shoot football offense, or a Mike D"Antonio offense, his numbers look sexy because he's out for himself and not winning. See, winning percentage, Ichiro. That's not a good lookin number.

All those guys I listed could either A hit one in the gap, B take a walk, C hit one out (not as much Boggs there, I'll give you that), D hit the same single Ichiro hits, E bat in the middle of the lineup and produce runs after runs, F make the pitchers work just as much as Ichiro

Thas a lotta damn letters. Ichiro fouls pitches off, occasionally gaps one, and usually just slaps a grounder while he sprints with his bat halfway up the line. Again, that is a very tough thing he pulls off, but that don't put his name next to Pujols, Manny, Gwynn, Teddy ballgame etc etc

OVERRATED


Just to give everyone the perfect example.

As of this moment, Ichiro has stepped into the batters box 9,171 times.

He has 514 extra base hits.

1 out of every 18 at bats he gets an extra base hit.

He has 2207 singles. Or more honestly put, 70 footers he beats out sprinting to first base even while slapping the ball.

Mike Trout has 139 extra base hits. 375 less than Ichiro.

In 7,837 less trips to the batters box.

Trout gets an extra base hit every 9.5 plate appearances.

The kid is 22 and only needs 375 extra base hits in the next 17 years to match Ichiro. :lol:

So, when I say Ichiro as a hitter is EXTREMELY overrated, now you will hopefully understand why. He's very fast, and makes contact and then uses his speed to get to first base, ALOT. Which is commendable. But using 750 plate appearances a year just to grind out his 200 singles per year is really, really selfish and pointless.

If he lost 10-15 singles in favor of hitting a gapper in the 3 spot and driving in 2 runs while his average sinks a few points would benefit his team MUCH more than what he's done the last decade.


Exactly.

Ichiro has 2208 singles and 538 walks. (BTW, 538 walks in 9,175 plate appearances, AS A LEADOFF HITTER is pathetic.)

Anyways, he's also been hit by a pitch 50 times. Add that up, he's at just under 2,800 times reaching first base. Not including any times he reached first on a strikeout, or a double play grounder that he beat out, or an error. Safe to say that's another 100 times on First in his career.

He has 470 steals. And how many of those were 3rd base?

So "turning singles into doubles" is complete and utter bs.

Outside of his rookie year when he stole 56 he gets into that 35-40 range in steals every year. But reaches first base 225+ times a year. What the hell are you guys watching that makes you think he's some offensive God? :lol:

It's exactly like I said. He's a great fielder. Great speed. And he slaps the ball. He doesn't draw walks, he doesn't hit for power, he doesn't hit for extra base hits, he refuses to bat lower in the order to drive in runs, HE JUST WANTS HIS 200 SINGLES PER YEAR. That's all he does, all he cares about. Seattle FOR YEARS wanted him to bat 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and he refused. They had NO ONE else to drive him in, even when he did steal a bag, or reach second on one of his few doubles, but this supposed great hitter who "could" hit for more power "if he wanted" ( :lol: ) wouldn't do that for his team.

But yeah, First Ballot. :lol:



He's going to get in because people are stupid, and the story of him coming from Japan, and "4,000" hits and all that means something to people that are fooled. But those that actually pay attention know better. He gets in, but to me, he gets in as Ozzie Smith. A great fielder who was decent enough with the bat. Ichiro is better with the bat than Ozzie, but Ozzie was better with the glove than Ichiro, so it washes.

Oh by the way, Ozzie only has about 1,600 more plate appearances than Ichiro has, but Ozzie has 580 stolen bases, and almost 1,100 walks. And Ozzie reached base a helluva lot less than Ichiro.

But hey, Ichiro is a "great" hitter. :lol:

I think I've done enough in here now. Ichiro fans should hate me fairly good about now. Thanks Proshares


You shoulda called me, I didn't even see the thread til just now. :lol:

It don't matter what I say, just like the basketball hall, everyone that's good or played in another country gets in, so yeah, he'll get in.

He's the most overrated hitter I've ever seen, but as Osh says, he is really good at baserunning and fielding, so he could be an Ozzie Smith type induction and I wouldn't be pissed about that at all.

When people call him a "great" hitter, that pisses me off. He has great control of a bat, and great speed, NOT a great hitter :smh:


Finns, sorry I was gone over the weekend, I woulda loved to have still been in here.

You asked me about Gwynn on page 4. That man could flat out rake, when you talk about Ichiro being a great hitter, vs Gwynn being a great hitter it is NOT EVEN CLOSE. Do you have any idea what Tony's average would be if he was fast? They'd never be able to get that guy out and it was hard enough even as slow as he was. Gwynn could hit any pitch and place it damn near perfectly out in the outfield. He could pull, go the other way, gap em, once in a while take out deep. He just couldn't hit choppers to the shortstop and pick up "cheapy's". He'd hit .400 if he coulda done that. He also worked every pitcher and made them throw extra pitches, fouled pitches off, gave the hitters behind him chances to see his stuff. Really, if you want to compare or contrast Ichiro, never mention Gwynn, it's that far off.

I think everyone else has done a good job in here, I just wanted to answer you about Gwynn is all.


651 point taken, but we have to wait to see how he finishes out.

A great hitter can hit til the day they die. Gwynn, Molitor, Brett, etc etc.

When Ichiro's speed falls off, and those "hits" to short are no more, and he's hittin 270, then we'll all know the truth.



It is my belief that Ichiro is a "numbers" guy that only cares about his singles getting slapped. I don't think he's a franchise guy, or a guy that even cares about winning. Ever since the 116, his teams stay doing nothing but losing while he keeps going out there and bunting singles. This annoys me.

If he gave all that up, and moved to third in the lineup, and tried to drive in some runs, bring some runners home, and stopped with all the single slapping, I would be very impressed. M's fans will swear up and down til their last breath that Ichiro could hit home runs "if he wanted too" :lol: Why wouldn't a guy want to hit a home run for his team? Because it's safer to slap a single and get that base hit, then muscle up and maybe swing and miss a few balls, causing your precious average to dip slightly.

So if he goes to third, gets 20 homers and his average goes down to .300, or .310, I would be MUCH more impressed with that, then him hitting .350 with a lot of singles and 100 losses or so. (which is his norm)
 
Who's the bum that wrote all that? Poured his heart into it
Mariners haven't won a division title since 2001.
He got a point of Ichiro being overrated in terms of team impact.

Mike trout isn't leading those mariner teams to playoffs either
He'd create more runs though.

Ichiro never created more than 131 in a season in his career.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1101&position=OF
 
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Who's the bum that wrote all that? Poured his heart into it
Mariners haven't won a division title since 2001.
He got a point of Ichiro being overrated in terms of team impact.

Mike trout isn't leading those mariner teams to playoffs either
He'd create more runs though.

Ichiro never created more than 131 in a season in his career.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1101&position=OF

Hes a 2/3 hitter. He's supposed too though. It still proves your first point wrong
 
Jose Reyes created 142 for the Mets in 2011 out of the leadoff spot. Doesn't matter where a guy hits, great hitters create runs when they can.
 
Jose Reyes created 142 for the Mets in 2011 out of the leadoff spot. Doesn't matter where a guy hits, great hitters create runs when they can.

11 more runs in a whole season than Ichiro? You think that's the difference between playoffs and cellar dweller?
 
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