NikeTalk › NikeTalk Forums › The Lounge › Sports & Training › 2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions. - Page 612

post #18331 of 77312
 
Originally Posted by Th3RealF0lkBlu3s View Post
How much more do you like Hudson's deal over these other ones?

I think Hudson is a better pitcher than all of  Kazmir, Nolasco and Hughes.  I think he is slightly overpaid for what he brings to the table, and I sincerely hope (but probably believe) that this isnt the Giants big offseason move.  But overall, I like the signing. 

post #18332 of 77312

Given the market, Hudson and Kaz are both extremely reasonable deals IMO..

post #18333 of 77312
Welcome to DC, Doug Fister pimp.gif acquired for Steve Lombardozzi, Ian Krol, and Robbie Ray.
post #18334 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by madj55 View Post

Welcome to DC, Doug Fister pimp.gif acquired for Steve Lombardozzi, Ian Krol, and Robbie Ray.

:Nthat

post #18335 of 77312
Either someone stole Dombrowski's phone, or he has something huge in the works.

Ski mask deal for the Nats, though.

And I find it a little strange that the A's are essentially choosing Kazmir over Anderson.

Both left-handed, both always hurt, both now owed about the same amount of money (two years, $20/$22 million). Anderson is younger and better. They are totally betting on very recent history.
post #18336 of 77312
1. Nats lineup has literally 4 aces. Good luck with that, NL East.
2. Something big coming from the Tigs. DD has something cooking, I can smell it.
Edited by JJ1223 - 12/2/13 at 7:00pm
post #18337 of 77312
Lombo, Ray, and Krol for Fister is a straight robbery. However, this allows the Tigers to put Smyly in the rotation like they wanted to and they did get a lefty back…although Krol really only has one pitch.

Strasburg
Gonzalez
Zimmermann
Fister
Detwiler/Roark/Jordan
pimp.gifpimp.gifpimp.gifpimp.gifpimp.gif
post #18338 of 77312
Thread Starter 
Tigers don't get enough for Doug Fister.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Washington Nationals seemed like a good bet to go after an undervalued starter for the back of their rotation -- I guessed Brett Anderson, who was originally drafted by Mike Rizzo in Arizona, in a post earlier on Monday -- and they did just that, sending some quantity -- infielder Steve Lombardozzi and lefties Ian Krol and Robbie Ray -- to the Detroit Tigers for Doug Fister, who'll give Washington one of the best rotations in either league for 2014.

Detroit may fill some minor holes, but I don't think they got full value back given the market for starters right now and how effective Fister has been the last two seasons.

The Nats get Fister for the next two years before he hits free agency, coinciding nicely with their main window of contention, as Jordan Zimmerman, Ian Desmond, and Tyler Clippard are all scheduled to hit free agency after 2015 as well. Fister has been quietly effective since Detroit acquired him from Seattle for the baseball equivalent of a wad of used chewing tobacco in 2011, shifting his pitch mix to throw more two-seamers and generate more ground balls; that, combined with plus-plus control, means he can be extremely valuable (averaging more than 4 WAR over the last three seasons) without big velocity.

He's been fairly durable, with one significant injury in those three seasons, a costochondral (cartilage connecting the ribs to the sternum) strain, meaning he's had no arm trouble. The Nationals could be looking at 400-plus innings from him over these two years and 9 WAR, all for maybe $18-20 million total if he just goes through arbitration twice.

Fister's arrival gives the Nationals a potential surplus in the rotation, with Tanner Roark, Taylor Jordan, and the injured Ross Detwiler all candidates for the fifth spot; Detwiler could move to relief, as the Nationals just traded Ian Krol, the only left-handed reliever in their bullpen, or prospect Sammy Solis could ease into the majors in a relief role to fill that void. They don't have any obvious needs at this point other than that left-hander in the pen, which as needs go is a minor one. This is a stacked team if they can stay healthy.

I can't believe the Tigers couldn't get more total value than this for Fister, who is easily a top 25-30 overall starter in the game; they may have traded more to fill needs than to maximize their return. Krol flourished after a shift to the bullpen, going from 86-89 mph as a starter to 92-95 in relief, with an above-average changeup and fringy curveball; he's underutilized in a lefty specialist role but I like him as a potential seventh- or eighth-inning guy given more time to adjust to short relief.

Lombardozzi is a backup second baseman, lacking the stick to play there every day, and has played just 22 games in pro ball at shortstop, meaning it's unclear whether he can even be a utility infielder in the era of the four-man bench.

Ray is the prospect, a potential back-end starter who shows four pitches but has nothing plus, although there's some upside here if the Tigers can get him to lengthen his stride. His sharpest pitch is his spike curveball, but like most pitches of that type it usually ends up out of the zone, and his changeup is fringy enough that he's had trouble finishing off right-handed hitters. He's a project, a guy with some value but who could use some mechanical adjustments.

Drew Smyly, who was superb in relief for Detroit in 2013, takes Fister's spot in the rotation but won't be able to match that production.

A lefty reliever, a backup at second, and a non-top 100 prospect is just not a good return for two years of one of the top 30 starters in baseball.

Kazmir a shrewd investment for A's.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Oakland Athletics probably have outgrown their reputation as a team operating on a shoestring that forces them to shop in the bargain bin during free agency and in the trade market, as they've handed out a few larger deals -- such as the four-year, $36 million contract they gave to Yoenis Cespedes -- in the past couple of seasons.

That said, they do still look for hidden value or potential upside plays, now a little less out of necessity and more because it's just smart business for any team that doesn't have an infinite payroll. Giving two years and $22 million to Scott Kazmir entails significant risk -- the guy was out of baseball a year ago -- but has the potential upside to make this the kind of high-ROI deal Oakland needs.

Kazmir replaces Bartolo Colon, who was in similar straits when Oakland first signed him after a shocking return to the majors with the Yankees in 2011. Colon gave the A's 342 pretty good innings in two seasons around a PED suspension and a mountain of fat jokes, but he's older than I am (which is no longer a positive for a ballplayer) and his durability and effectiveness have to both be real concerns going forward.

Kazmir won't even turn 30 until late January, had most of 2011 and 2012 off recovering from injury, and reworked his delivery to reduce some of the violence and, one hopes, keep himself healthy into his early 30s. The A's didn't invest in Kazmir for the long haul, as Kansas City and Minnesota just did with Jason Vargas and Ricky Nolasco, respectively, and are paying Kazmir to provide what Colon gave them over the past two years: 300-350 above-average innings.

I like Kazmir's chances to do it, recognizing that he's about as high-beta a player as there was on my top 50 free-agent rankings. Since those adjustments to his delivery, which included getting better leverage off his back leg and getting more torso rotation, Kazmir is throwing harder than he had in several years and started throwing his slider for more strikes than ever.

The results were astonishing; two years after the Angels couldn't find any way to deploy him in the majors, he struck out 24 percent of the men he faced, stopped walking so many batters, and was a league-average starter for 158 innings. That's worth a two-year deal, and probably close to $9-$10 million a year given the acceleration in salaries already this offseason, although $22 million guaranteed assumes a lower risk that he reverts to form or gets injured than I would want to assume given his history.

The A's look likely go into 2014 with a rotatin of Kazmir, Jarrod Parker, Sonny Gray, Dan Straily and A.J. Griffin, with Tom Milone a potential sixth starter (or maybe a home-only pitcher, if they want to be clever about it), which means Brett Anderson, due $8 million for 2014 and effective when healthy, should be an attractive trade piece for a team with the flexibility to risk losing that money to the disabled list.

Texas and Toronto are obvious fits, as are the Nationals, who tried this with Dan Haren last year and might be willing to do the same, while the Angels could certainly use Anderson even if he only gives them 15 starts.

The good news for the A's is that they don't have a glaring need; they could use a better bat at second base for 2014, and they don't have an established option at DH, although they've used the latter as a rotational option to give some of their hitters a day off from the field. They can simply shop Anderson for the best return, even if it's a low-minors prospect, or could try to move Milone or Griffin and see if Anderson makes them a better team this year even with a limited workload.
post #18339 of 77312
A's most interested in Jim Johnson.
post #18340 of 77312

Jim Johnson to A's for Jemille Weeks!!!

 

Oakland Athletics | Golden State Warriors | NTWT

 San Francisco 49ers | UCLA Bruins

 

 

Reply

 

Oakland Athletics | Golden State Warriors | NTWT

 San Francisco 49ers | UCLA Bruins

 

 

Reply
post #18341 of 77312
Still think the Kazmir signing was horrible, but Beane just made a great trade. Weeks is trash!
post #18342 of 77312
Best of luck Jemile. I hope you get it together.

Johnson was up and down last year so hopefully he can rebound, especially if he gets $10+ mil. sick.gif

Overall I like the deal. It fills a hole we have and we didn't give up any big prospects.
post #18343 of 77312
I saw Kazmir pitch several times in high school and even for the Sugar Land Skeeters lol. I'm rooting for him cause he's a Houston guy.
post #18344 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by dland24 View Post

Still think the Kazmir signing was horrible, but Beane just made a great trade. Weeks is trash!

So is Jim Johnson lol
post #18345 of 77312
The Nats might be in on Cano nerd.gif
post #18346 of 77312

8o

post #18347 of 77312
good...get cano out of the AL East laugh.gif

interested to see what the sox plan do about either keeping or replacing napoli and salty. banking on ellsbury and drew not playing boston next year, obviously.
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
post #18348 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce View Post

good...get cano out of the AL East laugh.gif

interested to see what the sox plan do about either keeping or replacing napoli and salty. banking on ellsbury and drew not playing boston next year, obviously.

Nats will have to really outbid on Cano..


Yankees are currently at $24mil a year on Cano for 7. They've been standing firm on that number, but recently hinted that they would increase that number to about $26-27 mil a year for him.


Not a whole lot of wiggle room for the Nationals to get him. Isn't like Yankees are offering him $15 mil, and he wants $25mil.
TEAM A BUNCH OF THINGS
Twitter - @EssentialShow
Instagram - MarshallLaw518
Reply
TEAM A BUNCH OF THINGS
Twitter - @EssentialShow
Instagram - MarshallLaw518
Reply
post #18349 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essential1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce View Post

good...get cano out of the AL East laugh.gif

interested to see what the sox plan do about either keeping or replacing napoli and salty. banking on ellsbury and drew not playing boston next year, obviously.

Nats will have to really outbid on Cano..

Not completely out of the realm of possibility. Lerner's pockets are deep, and he's really getting up there in age. It's been said that he's happy to spend money if it'll significantly improve their team. And Cano certainly would.

I imagine he'll resign with the Yanks, though.

I do find it strange Cano went with Jay-Z if all he was after is the biggest check. No one extracts max value like Boras.
post #18350 of 77312
Thread Starter 
That's what rubbed me the wrong way...he left Boras because Boras refused to open up negotiation talks with the Yankees and he didn't want to disrespect the Yankees by demanding too much money.

The Nats could definitely afford it. The MASN deal is all resolved I think, that should pump more cash into the team.
post #18351 of 77312
Cano wants 10 years 250-260
Yankees are at 7-8, 160-170


I have no problem losing Cano to the Nats for 250. Cano is the best second basemen I've seen in years and possibly in my lifetime but he's crazy.
post #18352 of 77312
The Nats would be the type of team to give Cano what he wants. Yankees are still the favorites with the Nats and Mariners in the hunt.


If Cano was getting a better offer somewhere else, he would've taken it already because like Ballerific said, they arent gonna offer him anywhere near $200million. I just wish they process would speed up considering the Infante and Choo are available and cheaper alternatives.
@JFedeDPT

Help Brooklyn Youth: Athletes * Scholars * Community Leaders http://gobrooklyn.org
Reply
@JFedeDPT

Help Brooklyn Youth: Athletes * Scholars * Community Leaders http://gobrooklyn.org
Reply
post #18353 of 77312
sox sign AJ Pierzynski nerd.gif

goodbye salty
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
post #18354 of 77312
So the Nats are replacing Dan Haren with Doug Fister. Anyone is an upgrade over Haren, but that's a damn good deal for the Nats. I've always thought that Fister has been under valued.
post #18355 of 77312
Thread Starter 
Always has been. Seattle pretty much gave him away to Detroit as well.

I'm hoping Detroit is just shedding salary to give a monster deal to Max.

Douche bag AJ going to that douche bag city. Perfect fit.

smile.gif
post #18356 of 77312
laugh.gif bobby

AJ is a perfect fit for Boston, tho. fits the mold. just hope he produces laugh.gif
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
post #18357 of 77312
Thread Starter 
laugh.gif

He should though. Somehow, he managed to throw out somewhere over 30% of runners attempting to steal. Hasn't been that good since he was young. Plus, you get the nice platoon with him and Ross.

Another plus:

The short-term deal would seem to be an indication that the team thinks catching prospects Christian Vazquez and Blake Swihart might be ready for the majors sooner than later.
post #18358 of 77312
that's a good point about vazquez and swihart
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
post #18359 of 77312
Yeah, I don't see Cano leaving the Yanks. But if he came to the Nats, I'd **** my pants. Old man Lerner is probably gonna croak within the next 5 years, if he made this move he wouldn't even have to see all his money go to Cano while he's on the decline laugh.gif Bringing in Cano would also give us a great defensive infield, exactly what Fister didn't have in Detroit. It'd also mean the end of Adam LaRoche most likely.
post #18360 of 77312
Thread Starter 
That's why a lot of folks are saying they got rid of Fister. His FB velo dropped a tick and his opp BA went up. It's a ground ball pitcher with two fire hydrants playing the corners, of course he'll give up more hits.

I would love to see the Nats experiment for one game early in the year and toss 5 IF's out there with Bryce and Span covering the OF.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sports & Training
NikeTalk › NikeTalk Forums › The Lounge › Sports & Training › 2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions.