2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

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ChampCruThik said:
Completely agree. Just saying the position and market dictate what type of contract you can get.

Nobody is pining to give Robbie the albatross he wants.
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I agree with the last part.

But the first part won't work. There's never been a Cano type player in this age at that position who has went to free agency in his prime.
 
Source: Yankees have interest in Joe Nathan, but working on more pressing needs (Beltran, McCann) before things such as bullpen help.
 
ChampCruThik said:
What's a fair compromise then. NYY can't afford to lose Robbie. Robbie doesn't have a serious suitor in LAD or NYM to incite a bidding war.

Does 6/150 or 6/180 get it done for both sides.
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That's another issue. I don't think six years does it either.

It's not the toughest position to play & Robbie *knock on wood* doesn't get hurt. So he could possibly still be a top 5 second baseman by the end of a six year deal.

What they want (probably rightly so) is to get paid the dead money. They want to be covered age 38-40. It's all about accepting that. Yanks (rightfully so) don't want to because of their past with those contracts and the position it put them in from '01-'09 and '10-present.

What they'll tell the Yankees is "Instead of bloating your payroll for $30mm - $35mm a year by giving us a short term/big money deal, give us extra years so you can shed the money off the top of those prime years and just pay them over the back end."

What's going to work? Either give him 5/$173mm or 9/$250mm - $275mm is what I'd guess.

Hov trying to sell Robbie as the next MJ. I think his star power is local specific, not nationwide or global.
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And he has absolutely ZERO leverage there. This is still very much Derek Jeter's team. Buster Olney put it best:

"The Yankees have heard Cano’s representatives make the case that the second baseman is a Madison Avenue star, a natural draw in the way that Jay-Z is. The Yankees’ counter argument has been: We love Robby, but we had him last season and finished out of the playoffs with him and saw our attendance and TV ratings drop at a time when Derek Jeter was away; is Robby really that big of a star?"

Now are they wrong about the Cano correlation to winning? Absolutely. But he's not some transcendent star Hov is making him out to be IMO.

Other suitors are non-existent. Unless the Dodgers offer him some monster 3 year deal, I don't see it. What I could maybe see as a possibility, is the other LA team. I can see Kendrick moving for someone like Porcello and then they go after Cano.
 
Thought Nathan LOVED Detroit :lol:

Champ, I think they just get the notion that next year will have everything fall into place. They get another ground ball pitcher for Howie, hope Albert's foot is healthy and give Josh Lasik or snow or whatever to get him right. Moreno does not seem the type to regret and rebuild.

Who knows, I'm probably completely off base anyway.
 
Proshares said:
What's going to work? Either give him 5/$173mm or 9/$250mm - $275mm is what I'd guess.
And he has absolutely ZERO leverage there. This is still very much Derek Jeter's team. Buster Olney put it best:

"The Yankees have heard Cano’s representatives make the case that the second baseman is a Madison Avenue star, a natural draw in the way that Jay-Z is. The Yankees’ counter argument has been: We love Robby, but we had him last season and finished out of the playoffs with him and saw our attendance and TV ratings drop at a time when Derek Jeter was away; is Robby really that big of a star?"

Now are they wrong about the Cano correlation to winning? Absolutely. But he's not some transcendent star Hov is making him out to be IMO.

Other suitors are non-existent. Unless the Dodgers offer him some monster 3 year deal, I don't see it. What I could maybe see as a possibility, is the other LA team. I can see Kendrick moving for someone like Porcello and then they go after Cano.
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I'm Cano's biggest fan and would hate to see him leave NY. I've seen the kid play every second of baseball since he got here.

I'm being real when I say his marketability is strictly Hispanic market driven, and baseball fan driven. He's not a face of the franchise like Jeter or AROD or Mariano. He's not even on the level of Pettitte.

Between the language barrier, and the "you're not Jeter" aspect it's hard to see him be a "brand" name. I don't care if he has Jay-Z or not.
 
No, I like the theory, Pro. Wish I had inside info, but I honestly don't.

My hunch is Robbie stays with the Yanks. Can't see the Mets, Dodgers, Angels ultimately budging. Just a matter of how much it will cost and for how long.

I wonder if Jay Z's MJ play is one of desperation and urgency.
 
Proshares said:
I agree with the last part.

But the first part won't work. There's never been a Cano type player in this age at that position who has went to free agency in his prime.
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What about Albert Pujols?

Pujols hit the market at age 31, doesn't play a premium defensive postion, albeit one where power is expected. It is clear that the Angels overpaid for his services.

He may be in his prime but he's on the wrong side of 30, never been a Cano type of player "in this age at that position" because second baseman rarely command top dollar. Dustin Pedroia is the only second baseman to receive a nine figure contract, ever. Annualy (avg) the highest paid second baseman is Ian Kinsler ($15/year). I just don't see him commanding $10 to $15 million more than the next best second baseman.
 
ooIRON MANoo said:
Proshares said:
I agree with the last part.

But the first part won't work. There's never been a Cano type player in this age at that position who has went to free agency in his prime.
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What about Albert Pujols?

Pujols hit the market at age 31, doesn't play a premium defensive postion, albeit one where power is expected. It is clear that the Angels overpaid for his services.

He may be in his prime but he's on the wrong side of 30, never been a Cano type of player "in this age at that position" because second baseman rarely command top dollar. Dustin Pedroia is the only second baseman to receive a nine figure contract, ever. Annualy (avg) the highest paid second baseman is Ian Kinsler ($15/year). I just don't see him commanding $10 to $15 million more than the next best second baseman.
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I can somewhat see the comparison.

But the second base to first base makes all the difference IMO.

He's on the wrong side of 30 for sure but he should have three years possibly four at the rate of production with a decent ceiling for an increase.

The offensive difference & OPS difference between Cano and the next two or three best second baseman offensively makes him worth that much more. Plus, throw in the fact that the guys he's dwarfing offensively are not leaps and bounds ahead of him defensively either. The only ones would be Zobrist and Pedroia. One doesn't play second base daily and one has come close in value offensively once since Cano became an every day player.

Pedroia got 9 figures because of 3 rings, clubhouse presence and his defense/baserunning. I don't wanna bring him into this conversation :lol:
 
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Proshares said:
I can somewhat see the comparison.

But the second base to first base makes all the difference IMO.

He's on the wrong side of 30 for sure but he should have three years possibly four at the rate of production with a decent ceiling for an increase.

The offensive difference & OPS difference between Cano and the next two or three best second baseman offensively makes him worth that much more. Plus, throw in the fact that the guys he's dwarfing offensively are not leaps and bounds ahead of him defensively either. The only ones would be Zobrist and Pedroia. One doesn't play second base daily and one has come close in value offensively once since Cano became an every day player.

Pedroia got 9 figures because of 3 rings, clubhouse presence and his defense/baserunning. I don't wanna bring him into this conversation :lol:
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You have to bring Pedroia into the mix because he has the highest contract at that position in terms of length and dollars, you have to bring in Kinsler because he has the highest contract based on annual value.

Giving Cano 9/$275 or even 5/$173 is a contract with an annual value of $30-34 million, a figure not a lot of players are worth and certainly not Cano. He has ZERO leverage and NO market so the Yankees giving him that amount of money is ridiculous and a deal that will get ridiculed for years to come, similar to the Pujols deal.

I wouldn't give Cano more than $20 million a year... period.

Giving Cano the biggest contract in baseball history when he's never been the best player in baseball, :lol:

Second base isn't easy to play, but it's not a defensive position where teams place heavy emphasis on.

The Yankees don't even have to look at the other side of the country for a bad example of a long term contract that can go real sour, real fast: Look at ARods second deal. Yankees need to call his bluff. I don't see him getting more than $150 million elsewhere, so if the Yanks overbid by $25 to $75 million, don't know what to say about the state of that franchise. Big trees fall hard.
 
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You have your opinion, I have mine. There's no sense in going back and forth about it, just agree to disagree.

I'm not saying he deserves it, I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying he's the best player or ever was in baseball.

All I'm saying is how it'll work.

I think you think I'm justifying it or saying that the Yankees should.
 
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Carp retires.

NYM inquiring for Hebrew Hammer. Supposedly MIL prefers to keep Aoki internally.

Lopez back to SF for 3/$13M.
 
Unblocks Profar.

Spacious Comerica to Arlington. Not J. Upton or Giancarlo.

Must be more to it if Daniels is absorbing his albatross contract.
 
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