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2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions. - Page 152

post #4531 of 77312
eek.gif
post #4532 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinallyFamous

If the Tigers somehow land Fielder...boy I tell ya.... I will not be a happy camper



Someone isn't a happy camper.
What's 1.21 gigawatts to a McFly like me. Can you please remind me?
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What's 1.21 gigawatts to a McFly like me. Can you please remind me?
Reply
post #4533 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinallyFamous

If the Tigers somehow land Fielder...boy I tell ya.... I will not be a happy camper



Someone isn't a happy camper.
What's 1.21 gigawatts to a McFly like me. Can you please remind me?
Reply
What's 1.21 gigawatts to a McFly like me. Can you please remind me?
Reply
post #4534 of 77312
Beastmode has been activated in Detroit.

Illitch wants a World Series ring.
post #4535 of 77312
Beastmode has been activated in Detroit.

Illitch wants a World Series ring.
post #4536 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proshares

laugh.gif what are they gonna do, put Miggy at 3B?

Nine years is a long time but short term, that's a hell of a signing.

I think Miggy will DH and Fielder will play 1b. Don't know what there going to do when Martinez comes back. laugh.gif How long is Martinez under contract for anyways? I can't imagine Miggy playing 3rd now or Martinez being an everyday catcher. laugh.gif 
post #4537 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proshares

laugh.gif what are they gonna do, put Miggy at 3B?

Nine years is a long time but short term, that's a hell of a signing.

I think Miggy will DH and Fielder will play 1b. Don't know what there going to do when Martinez comes back. laugh.gif How long is Martinez under contract for anyways? I can't imagine Miggy playing 3rd now or Martinez being an everyday catcher. laugh.gif 
post #4538 of 77312
Thread Starter 
Four years, so two more years after this missed season. Miggy at third would be atrocious. Who else do they have, Inge again?
post #4539 of 77312
Thread Starter 
Four years, so two more years after this missed season. Miggy at third would be atrocious. Who else do they have, Inge again?
post #4540 of 77312
Wow.
9 years for his fat #+* though? Short term good, long term, not so much
post #4541 of 77312
Wow.
9 years for his fat #+* though? Short term good, long term, not so much
post #4542 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaWeX05

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinallyFamous

If the Tigers somehow land Fielder...boy I tell ya.... I will not be a happy camper



Someone isn't a happy camper.



frown.gif.... This has been a bad week man..... And tonight's game most likely will just make me sad
O-H-I-O

CAVALIERS - INDIANS - BROWNS - BUCKEYES
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O-H-I-O

CAVALIERS - INDIANS - BROWNS - BUCKEYES
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post #4543 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaWeX05

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinallyFamous

If the Tigers somehow land Fielder...boy I tell ya.... I will not be a happy camper



Someone isn't a happy camper.



frown.gif.... This has been a bad week man..... And tonight's game most likely will just make me sad
O-H-I-O

CAVALIERS - INDIANS - BROWNS - BUCKEYES
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O-H-I-O

CAVALIERS - INDIANS - BROWNS - BUCKEYES
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post #4544 of 77312
nine years for that pudgemaster? no thanks...this has mo vaughn written all over it laugh.gif
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
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Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
post #4545 of 77312
nine years for that pudgemaster? no thanks...this has mo vaughn written all over it laugh.gif
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
Reply
post #4546 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

nine years for that pudgemaster? no thanks...this has mo vaughn written all over it laugh.gif



I disagree and this was exactly what we needed. Fielder is going to do just fine and his contract won't be bad for the long term either.
post #4547 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

nine years for that pudgemaster? no thanks...this has mo vaughn written all over it laugh.gif



I disagree and this was exactly what we needed. Fielder is going to do just fine and his contract won't be bad for the long term either.
post #4548 of 77312
It's still TribeCentral.

Boi
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post #4549 of 77312
It's still TribeCentral.

Boi
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post #4550 of 77312
dam combined weight at 1b is like 716

nice lil tag team they got over there now


image
Yanks Knicks Jets
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Yanks Knicks Jets
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post #4551 of 77312
dam combined weight at 1b is like 716

nice lil tag team they got over there now


image
Yanks Knicks Jets
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Yanks Knicks Jets
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post #4552 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by toine2983

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkmac

Thanks for the memories, Jorge Posada smiley: pimp smiley: frown.






post #4553 of 77312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big J 33

Quote:
Originally Posted by toine2983

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkmac

Thanks for the memories, Jorge Posada smiley: pimp smiley: frown.






post #4554 of 77312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

nine years for that pudgemaster? no thanks...this has mo vaughn written all over it laugh.gif



I disagree and this was exactly what we needed. Fielder is going to do just fine and his contract won't be bad for the long term either.



That and they need a leadoff hitter.  I'd give this contract maybe 4 years before it gets bad.  Even if he switches to DH, he'd have to produce something like 10-15 more HR's to produce the same amount of WAR.  Plus, there's no opt out clause.  Not even to mention what do you do in 2013 when V-Mart is healthy.  He can't catch anymore and if you put any combination of those 3 in the field, the IF defense would be atrocious.  Prince and Miggy have both been in the bottom 5 defensively at first base over the last 3 years and Miggy doesn't even have the range to play much first base let alone third.  I don't know, this might have mistake written all over it.
post #4555 of 77312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

nine years for that pudgemaster? no thanks...this has mo vaughn written all over it laugh.gif



I disagree and this was exactly what we needed. Fielder is going to do just fine and his contract won't be bad for the long term either.



That and they need a leadoff hitter.  I'd give this contract maybe 4 years before it gets bad.  Even if he switches to DH, he'd have to produce something like 10-15 more HR's to produce the same amount of WAR.  Plus, there's no opt out clause.  Not even to mention what do you do in 2013 when V-Mart is healthy.  He can't catch anymore and if you put any combination of those 3 in the field, the IF defense would be atrocious.  Prince and Miggy have both been in the bottom 5 defensively at first base over the last 3 years and Miggy doesn't even have the range to play much first base let alone third.  I don't know, this might have mistake written all over it.
post #4556 of 77312
Thread Starter 

This kinda sums it up for my opinion.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler [+]

The Mystery Team strikes again. After months of rumors that had Prince Fielder going to Washington, Texas, Baltimore, Seattle, and everywhere in between except Detroit, the Tigers decided to respond to Victor Martinez‘s knee injury in the most extreme way possible – giving Prince Fielder an enormous amount of money.

As first reported by Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports, with the details added by Jon Heyman, Fielder is set to receive $214 million over the next nine years, or just under $24 million per season. Essentially, he got the same deal as Albert Pujols, just minus one year in length. This deal ranks behind only that deal and the two Alex Rodriguez contracts as the largest investment in the history of the sport, so Fielder has essentially been paid at a level that puts him in the same company as two inner-circle Hall of Famers. No pressure or anything.

Let’s start with this deal from the Tigers perspective. As I wrote yesterday, the Tigers couldn’t afford to settle for an inferior DH replacement after losing Victor Martinez for the season with an ACL tear. With Miguel Cabrera and Justin Verlander in their primes, the team was essentially committed to contending, but they didn’t have a championship roster around them. The Tigers were absolutely in the sweet spot of the win curve where improving the roster could have the most impact. Adding Fielder pushes them from a solid team that would be in the mix to win a bad division up to being able to plan on playing in October and potentially challenging for a World Series title. After Martinez went down, there was probably no team in baseball that needed Fielder more than Detroit.

If they were an 85-87 win team yesterday, they’re probably closer to an 89-91 win team today. The difference in expected playoff odds for an 85 win team and a 90 win team, even in a division with no obvious challenger to the throne, is enormous. So, it’s understandable that the Tigers decided to be extremely aggressive in their desire to put the best team that they possibly could on the field for the next few seasons. When you have two superstars in their primes, you want to maximize your chances of capturing a ring, and no available player gets the Tigers closer to a championship than Fielder does.

With all that said, the long term costs of putting Fielder on this roster were extremely high. No matter how much you might like Prince Fielder’s bat, there’s no getting around the reality that he’s going to be extremely overpaid during the second half of this contract, and this deal could turn into an albatross very quickly. As we noted a few months ago, the historical aging curve for heavy players shows significant drop-off at earlier ages than most players, as it’s hard for a player carrying that much mass to maintain health and flexibility as their body starts to wear down. Fielder will have to be a big time outlier if he’s going to remain a productive player into his mid-30s, and even if you’re aggressive in your estimations of future salary inflation, a $214 million contract is going to pay him at premier player rates at ages when he’ll probably be more of a part-time role player. The question isn’t if Fielder will become a hinderance to the Tigers ability to compete, but simply a matter of when.

At this price, the Tigers are paying for something in the realm of 35 wins over the next nine years. If you believe that Fielder is a true talent +5 win player and apply the standard player aging curve which knocks off half a win per year, he’d be expected to produce +27 wins over that timeframe, a performance worth about $156 million at today’s prices. As you can see, the gap is so large that there’s almost no chance that Fielder is actually worth $214 million over the next nine years. The Tigers have basically borrowed from their future to pay for the present, and this deal is going to harm their ability to contend down the line. If Fielder ages well, he may not begin to be a real liability for three or four years. That’s the window the Tigers have essentially given themselves with this contract – win a title before 2015 before the cost of this deal becomes prohibitive to building a contending team around that contract.

With Miguel Cabrera under contract for four more seasons and Justin Verlander in town for at least three more, Fielder’s addition should make them legitimate title contenders during that window of time. And, if they win a World Series during that time, it will be easy to live with the cost to the future of the franchise while throwing a parade. However, that argument can be used to justify signing any player to any sized contract, and shouldn’t be how teams operate. At some point, the cost begins to exceed any potential benefit you could reasonably expect, no matter just how desperate you are to win or how much you think a single player will help you.

Fielder will absolutely help the Tigers. He might even be enough to help them get to the World Series and perhaps take home a trophy. But, in reality, if the team had $214 million to spend this winter, they should have been in on Jose Reyes and C.J. Wilson, who won’t make as much between them as what the team just guaranteed Fielder. As I wrote yesterday, the Tigers definitely needed to make an impact move, but because they got stuck in a position where there was only one impact bat left on the market, they found themselves having to vastly overpay in order to get that improvement.

For Detroit’s sake, I hope they win a title in the next three years, because the franchise’s ability to compete long term just took a serious hit. Borrowing from the future to win in the present isn’t always a bad idea, but at these prices, the Tigers should have explored options. The cost was simply too high.

post #4557 of 77312
Thread Starter 

This kinda sums it up for my opinion.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler [+]

The Mystery Team strikes again. After months of rumors that had Prince Fielder going to Washington, Texas, Baltimore, Seattle, and everywhere in between except Detroit, the Tigers decided to respond to Victor Martinez‘s knee injury in the most extreme way possible – giving Prince Fielder an enormous amount of money.

As first reported by Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports, with the details added by Jon Heyman, Fielder is set to receive $214 million over the next nine years, or just under $24 million per season. Essentially, he got the same deal as Albert Pujols, just minus one year in length. This deal ranks behind only that deal and the two Alex Rodriguez contracts as the largest investment in the history of the sport, so Fielder has essentially been paid at a level that puts him in the same company as two inner-circle Hall of Famers. No pressure or anything.

Let’s start with this deal from the Tigers perspective. As I wrote yesterday, the Tigers couldn’t afford to settle for an inferior DH replacement after losing Victor Martinez for the season with an ACL tear. With Miguel Cabrera and Justin Verlander in their primes, the team was essentially committed to contending, but they didn’t have a championship roster around them. The Tigers were absolutely in the sweet spot of the win curve where improving the roster could have the most impact. Adding Fielder pushes them from a solid team that would be in the mix to win a bad division up to being able to plan on playing in October and potentially challenging for a World Series title. After Martinez went down, there was probably no team in baseball that needed Fielder more than Detroit.

If they were an 85-87 win team yesterday, they’re probably closer to an 89-91 win team today. The difference in expected playoff odds for an 85 win team and a 90 win team, even in a division with no obvious challenger to the throne, is enormous. So, it’s understandable that the Tigers decided to be extremely aggressive in their desire to put the best team that they possibly could on the field for the next few seasons. When you have two superstars in their primes, you want to maximize your chances of capturing a ring, and no available player gets the Tigers closer to a championship than Fielder does.

With all that said, the long term costs of putting Fielder on this roster were extremely high. No matter how much you might like Prince Fielder’s bat, there’s no getting around the reality that he’s going to be extremely overpaid during the second half of this contract, and this deal could turn into an albatross very quickly. As we noted a few months ago, the historical aging curve for heavy players shows significant drop-off at earlier ages than most players, as it’s hard for a player carrying that much mass to maintain health and flexibility as their body starts to wear down. Fielder will have to be a big time outlier if he’s going to remain a productive player into his mid-30s, and even if you’re aggressive in your estimations of future salary inflation, a $214 million contract is going to pay him at premier player rates at ages when he’ll probably be more of a part-time role player. The question isn’t if Fielder will become a hinderance to the Tigers ability to compete, but simply a matter of when.

At this price, the Tigers are paying for something in the realm of 35 wins over the next nine years. If you believe that Fielder is a true talent +5 win player and apply the standard player aging curve which knocks off half a win per year, he’d be expected to produce +27 wins over that timeframe, a performance worth about $156 million at today’s prices. As you can see, the gap is so large that there’s almost no chance that Fielder is actually worth $214 million over the next nine years. The Tigers have basically borrowed from their future to pay for the present, and this deal is going to harm their ability to contend down the line. If Fielder ages well, he may not begin to be a real liability for three or four years. That’s the window the Tigers have essentially given themselves with this contract – win a title before 2015 before the cost of this deal becomes prohibitive to building a contending team around that contract.

With Miguel Cabrera under contract for four more seasons and Justin Verlander in town for at least three more, Fielder’s addition should make them legitimate title contenders during that window of time. And, if they win a World Series during that time, it will be easy to live with the cost to the future of the franchise while throwing a parade. However, that argument can be used to justify signing any player to any sized contract, and shouldn’t be how teams operate. At some point, the cost begins to exceed any potential benefit you could reasonably expect, no matter just how desperate you are to win or how much you think a single player will help you.

Fielder will absolutely help the Tigers. He might even be enough to help them get to the World Series and perhaps take home a trophy. But, in reality, if the team had $214 million to spend this winter, they should have been in on Jose Reyes and C.J. Wilson, who won’t make as much between them as what the team just guaranteed Fielder. As I wrote yesterday, the Tigers definitely needed to make an impact move, but because they got stuck in a position where there was only one impact bat left on the market, they found themselves having to vastly overpay in order to get that improvement.

For Detroit’s sake, I hope they win a title in the next three years, because the franchise’s ability to compete long term just took a serious hit. Borrowing from the future to win in the present isn’t always a bad idea, but at these prices, the Tigers should have explored options. The cost was simply too high.

post #4558 of 77312
smiley: eek @ Fielder's contract.

Good for him.

Interested in what the Tigers do with their lineup once Martinez gets back.

Is he official done for the season with torn ACL?
post #4559 of 77312
smiley: eek @ Fielder's contract.

Good for him.

Interested in what the Tigers do with their lineup once Martinez gets back.

Is he official done for the season with torn ACL?
post #4560 of 77312
Lots of hate in here.
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