2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

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Trout the rational choice for AL MVP.

I argued in late June that Mike Trout had the early look, statistically speaking, of an MVP candidate, because he was such a complete player, contributing in all facets of the game. That MVP race has turned out to be a rout, with Trout nearly lapping the field in value, though that hasn't stopped a portion of the media and the fan base, largely situated in a certain state that borders three Great Lakes, from arguing in favor of another candidate, Miguel Cabrera.



The Luddite argument -- and don't kid yourself, that's what this is, a backlash against progress -- says that wins above replacement isn't reliable, or credible, or accurate enough to use in an MVP discussion. So while Trout destroys all of his competition in WAR, whether you use FanGraphs' version (a lead of 2.6 wins) or Baseball Reference's (a lead of 3.7), it might be more convincing to consider just why Trout's lead is so commanding.

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When choosing an MVP, you need to consider more than just hitting stats.The reactionary campaign for Cabrera right now focuses primarily on his offensive output, and if you look only at the raw, unadjusted stats, he does have a slight edge over Trout. The two players are in a dead heat in OBP, with Cabrera just .001 ahead (.395 to .394) while holding a 58-point (.060) advantage in slugging percentage, equal to roughly 40 total bases during the course of a full season.

Cabrera also has about three weeks of additional playing time over Trout, who inexplicably started the season in Triple-A to free up playing time for Vernon Wells. If offense was the entire story, Cabrera would be the MVP, holding a lead of about half a win of value over Trout once we adjust for their ballparks, because Comerica Park is a better park for hitters than Angel Stadium is.



Of course, we live in 2012, an era in which any rational observer of the game should realize that there's a lot more to a position player's value than just what he provides with his bat. The most obvious aspect is defense, something we're only beginning to measure accurately but can at least quantify at a level beyond the useless stat of fielding percentage. FanGraphs uses Ultimate Zone Rating to try to measure defensive value, looking at all balls in play in that fielder's area and assigning them positive or negative run values based on how often balls hit that way were fielded, and if they weren't, what the typical damage was to the fielder's team. UZR has Trout saving 12 runs over an average center fielder this year, plus another net run saved in left and right, for a total of 13 runs saved; it has Cabrera costing the Tigers a little more than nine runs compared to an average third baseman.

The Defensive Runs Saved metric, from Baseball Information Solutions, is even more favorable to Trout, giving him credit for 25 runs saved while rating Cabrera at four runs cost. (DRS is what is factored into Baseball Reference's version of WAR.) I prefer the UZR method, but both results match the eye test as well: Trout's a plus defender, and Cabrera is at best a below-average defender (and more likely a poor one). The defensive value difference between Trout and Cabera is something on the order of two full wins, if not more.



Players add value through their baserunning. Trout has stolen 46 bases in 50 attempts, and because the break-even rate is somewhere in the 70 to 75 percent range, that is a significant net gain for the Angels, and he's added another six runs on the bases independent of his base-stealing prowess. Cabrera, on the other hand, has stolen four bases and been caught once, while his baserunning has cost the Tigers just under 3 runs. (The baserunning numbers also are drawn from FanGraphs, and include things like taking an extra base on a batted ball or advancing on a fly ball or groundout.)

Baseball Prospectus also produces baserunning numbers, including stolen base value and other baserunning events in a single number, giving Trout a net gain of 10.4 runs and Cabrera a net loss of 4.9 runs. Again, you might disagree with the precise figures, but there is no disputing that Trout has been substantially more valuable on the bases than Cabrera, on the order of over a full win.



There's a little more work to do, but even at this point, it should be obvious why Trout has been much more valuable than Cabrera, and this why there is such a large gap in their respective WAR. Cabrera's small edge in offense is wiped out by Trout's value on defense and on the bases. Trout even gets a small bump for playing center, a position where replacement level -- that is, the expected offensive production of a generic player called up from Triple-A to fill that role -- is slightly lower than it is at third base.

And WAR doesn't consider the quality of competition, a factor that also favors Trout, who has faced more difficult pitching than Cabrera this year. Miggy has particularly feasted on the two worst pitching staffs in the league in 2012, Cleveland and Minnesota, slugging .742 against those two clubs in 132 at-bats. Trout has just a third as many at bats against those clubs, but has spent more time facing the A's, Mariners, and Rangers, all above the league median in ERA.



Counterarguments
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No matter how you slice it, Cabrera's defense is hurting the Tigers.But Trout's a rookie!



This is a classic red herring argument -- arguing a premise that doesn't support the conclusion. The MVP award is a single-season award, and rookies are every bit as eligible as veterans with 10 years or more in the league. Nothing that happened prior to 2012 should carry any weight whatsoever in MVP voting: not past performance, not All-Star appearances, not service time, nothing.

A corollary to this argument is that Trout hasn't played a full season, and the MVP criteria do specifically say that voters may consider games played as a factor on their ballots. However, Trout has been so productive on a per game basis that his overall value this season still dwarfs that provided by Cabrera.



With that in hand, let's consider some of the major counterarguments that Cabrera supporters use to claim that he should win the award over Trout.



But Cabrera may win the Triple Crown, so he's the MVP!



This is begging the question: It assumes that the Triple Crown is an accurate measure of value, which it's not. Here's a short list of important factors not covered by the Triple Crown categories: Walks, the added value of doubles and triples, stolen bases, other aspects of baserunning, defensive value, positional value, park effects -- in other words, huge swaths of the game that are completely ignored.


Triple Crown is cute, but there's something very arbitrary and dated about its categories, an anachronistic way to look at the game that is wildly out of tune with how front offices look at players today. Once you realize, as you must, that a player who wins the Triple Crown has not necessarily delivered the most value, this argument evaporates.



The main corollary to the Triple Crown argument is that players who win this honor typically win the MVP award. That's not universally true -- Ted Williams twice won the Triple Crown and finished second in the MVP vote -- but even if it were true in all previous cases, it is a classic argument from tradition: We've always done it this way, therefore it's right. If you believe this still applies to Cabrera, I assume that the next time you're sick, you'll ask your doctor to bleed you with leeches.



But Cabrera's been better in August and September!



This is argument-by-selective observation, better known as "cherry-picking" -- utilizing a favorable subset of the available data while ignoring all other information. It's also presented in a misleading fashion, as Trout's less-productive stretch has only lasted a few weeks. After he homered on August 28, Trout's line for August sat at .301/.378/.544; since that date, he's hit .242/.355/.374, a weak stretch by his standards but not enough to drag down his seasonal numbers.



This argument also relies on a bogus assumption, that games late in the season are more important than those early in the season. I've checked the standings, and have concluded that a win in April is worth as much as a win in September. The Los Angeles Dodgers are still in the playoff race primarily because of a hot April; they're sub-.500 since May 1 The Orioles have been slightly over .500 since finishing their first series with Washington on May 20, at which point they were 27-15, and that will likely be enough to put them in the playoffs. Winning in September feels more important than winning in April or May, but that is not actually true.



But Cabrera's been better in the clutch!



A gain, more cherry-picking. When applied properly, the fundamental problem with this argument for Cabrera supporters is that it supports the guy they're trying to discredit: By win probability added (WPA), a stat that weights each plate appearance and result by the impact it had on the team's probability of winning that particular game, Trout has done more to add to his team's chances to win than any other player in baseball. Cabrera has been better in "late and close" situations, but those represent such a tiny fraction of each player's season that it's nonsense to base an MVP vote on those while ignoring the approximately 85 percent of the season not reflected in that small-sample stat line.



But WAR is a new-age stat for geeks who don't know baseball!



Let's be honest here, this is the real argument that non-Tigers fans are making about Trout. On its face, these comments are ad hominem arguments: rather than dispute the facts, some Cabrera partisans who use these terms are focusing on the person arguing for Trout, rather than on Trout's credentials. But really, nothing could be less "new age" than a thorough, rational metric, unless WAR was secretly developed by Yanni in his mother's basement.



The false Trout/Cabrera debate, stripped of Tigers and Angels fans, is just the latest in the ongoing battle between two camps in the baseball media, one of which has seen its longtime primacy usurped by new writers, mostly younger, who look at the game in different ways and have more in common with successful front offices.



Once upon a time, fans like you and me relied on a small number of writers and reporters to deliver baseball news and interpret it for us. Today, we have a panoply of voices offering different perspectives, some more rational than others, and the dedicated fan is better able to interpret baseball news and events for himself.

The pro-Cabrera camp in the voting pool may win this battle and rob Trout of the MVP award he clearly deserves, but the war over WAR and its statistical brethren is already over. The philosophy behind these advanced statistics and the way they inform our views of the game is here to stay, and although the fairy-tale scout Gus Lobel doesn't have to adapt, in this world, he'd have to retire, or he'd have to get on that computer and figure out how to reconcile what he wants to believe with what the facts before him say.

The 'real' Triple Crown.

For the third consecutive season, baseball has been seriously discussing the Triple Crown come September, despite it being 45 years since Carl Yastrzemski last managed to pull off the feat in 1967. Last year, it was Matt Kemp, who finished first in the National League in homers and RBIs, but finished behind Ryan Braun and Jose Reyes in batting average. In 2010, it was the troika of Albert Pujols, Joey Votto and Carlos Gonzalez fighting for the Triple Crown, all possessing realistic chances through most of the summer, but eventually crowding each other out by season's end.



This season, however, we focus on the American League, and with just over a week left in the season, Detroit Tigers third baseman Miguel Cabrera is in the driver's seat, leading the AL in batting average (.331), RBIs (133), and with 42 homers, only a single homer behind Josh Hamilton of the Texas Rangers. The Tigers just have nine games left in the season, so at this point, Cabrera's entrance into one of the most exclusive clubs in baseball history definitely appears to be more than a flight of fancy. (According to my model, he has a 46 percent chance of winning the Triple Crown. As hard as it is to pull off a Triple Crown, you have to like those odds.)

SABR stars
These are the players who have led the league in OBP, SLG and SB -- aka the Sabermetric Triple Crown -- since World War II:

YEAR PLAYER
2009 Joe Mauer
2004 Barry Bonds
2002 Barry Bonds
2000 Todd Helton
1999 Larry Walker
1980 George Brett
1979 Fred Lynn
1970 Carl Yastrzemski
1967 Carl Yastrzemski
1966 Frank Robinson
1957 Ted Williams
1954 Ted Williams
1949 Ted Williams
1948 Ted Williams
1948 Stan Musial
1947 Ted Williams
Cabrera's actually on the cusp of doing something even rarer: winning the Triple Crown without leading the league in wins above replacement. Mike Trout's amazing rookie season comes out significantly ahead of everyone in the AL, whether you use Baseball-Reference's WAR (Trout 10.4, Cabrera 6.8) or FanGraphs' WAR (Trout 9.5, Cabrera 6.9). By Baseball-Reference's reckoning, Cabrera would only be the second Triple Crown winner to not lead the league in WAR, the only other player being Paul Hines in 1878. Via FanGraphs, Cabrera would only be the fourth, with Hines, Ty Cobb and Hugh Duffy just missing the WAR lead in their Triple Crown years.



The fact that the Triple Crown doesn't correlate with WAR got me wondering, Is there a better Triple Crown, one that does a better job of measuring overall value? After all, choosing average, home runs and RBIs as the Triple Crown was somewhat arbitrary to begin with, and their is another trio of traditional stats that does a much better job of defining overall player value.



Throughout baseball history, WAR and Triple Crown stats generally correlate with each other. Taking into consideration every player qualifying for a batting title in baseball history, BA/HR/RBI explains 49 percent of the variance in WAR from player to player. While there are cases in which players with good Triple Crown stats have weak WAR seasons and vice-versa, generally speaking, the two go along well.

Real Triple Crown
These are the players who led the league in OBP, SLG and SB, the "real" Triple Crown.

YEAR PLAYER
1976 Joe Morgan
1917 Ty Cobb
1909 Ty Cobb
1908 Honus Wagner
1907 Honus Wagner
1904 Honus Wagner
So what hypothetical Triple Crown would have the strongest relationship with WAR? Replacing RBIs with runs scored strengthens the relationship, explaining 53 percent of the variation. The "sabermetric" Triple Crown of BA/OBP/SLG gets you up to explaining 56 percent of the variance in WAR from player to player.

Running all the permutations of the basic statistics used in baseball, the combination with the strongest relationship is actually SLG, OBP, and stolen bases, explaining 59 percent of the variation in WAR. This is because slugging percentage and on-base percentage generally sum up most offense quite well, with stolen bases including information not contained in either SLG or OBP. (Faster players steal bases, and speedy guys tend to be better defenders, so stolen bases actually give us at least a glimpse of defensive value in a way other stats don't.)



So let's call SLG/OBP/SB the "real" Triple Crown. This feat has only been pulled off three times in baseball history (see table) by three of the most well-rounded players we've ever seen: Joe Morgan, Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner.



Trout leads the AL in steals this year (46), but is fourth in OBP (.394) and slugging (.554). Cabrera is in the top five in the AL in OBP and slugging, but doesn't really steal bases. Other players who have come close in recent years are Larry Walker in 1997 (1st in OBP and SLG, 7th in SB) and Rickey Henderson in 1990 (first in OBP, second in slugging and first in steals).



It's pretty clear that the traditional Triple Crown doesn't do as good a job at measuring player value as the "real" Triple Crown. That said, whether or not Miguel Cabrera wins the Triple Crown this year or deserves the MVP award (or not), there's little question that his season is one for the ages, another highlight in his march to Cooperstown.

Key players for playoff contenders.

Scouts are scattered all over ballparks these days, preparing for the postseason, looking for weaknesses, forming opinions on which hitters to avoid and which hitters to go after.



Each of the playoff teams will have particular players who will be barometers for their club's performance -- linchpin guys.

Here are those players, among the teams that would qualify for the postseason as of this morning.

Texas Rangers, Yu Darvish: A month ago, their rotation looked to be a real concern in the postseason, but Darvish has turned it around in recent weeks; he's got 42 strikeouts in his last 37 innings, with a 1.46 ERA. Texas will need more of the same next month.




Atlanta Braves, Michael Bourn: Atlanta's offense is inconsistent, and all year it seems that when Bourn hits, the Braves are transformed. October is all about small samples, and in recent days, Bourn has hit better, with four hits in his last 11 at-bats, plus a couple of walks.



Oakland Athletics, Yoenis Cespedes: He is capable of doing damage against any pitcher in any situation, and the cause-and-effect with him has been in place all season. When he plays well, the Athletics tend to win.

Baltimore Orioles, Wei-Yin Chen: At last check, Baltimore was competing with a seven-man rotation. But in the postseason, the Orioles will need Chen -- the only pitcher with more than 20 starts on their roster -- to be able to hang in there at least into the sixth or seventh inning. The Orioles' bullpen has been remarkable, but it's hard to imagine Baltimore succeeding in October without a significant contribution from the starters, whoever they are.



Cincinnati Reds, Brandon Phillips: The Reds have a team fully capable of success in the postseason, with a good rotation, a dominant bullpen and an outstanding defense. Their greatest inconsistency has been at the top of the lineup, and it helps that Phillips has moved into the leadoff spot now that Joey Votto is back in the No. 3 spot. Votto is not hitting for power at all these days, but if Phillips and Zack Cozart tee him up by getting on base, the Reds' production will be very different. Phillips in the leadoff spot this year: a .275 on-base percentage.

New York Yankees, Alex Rodriguez: He is a crucial part of their lineup, especially with so much uncertainty about Mark Teixeira's status, because Rodriguez will be the guy attacked by opposing pitchers and managers as they look to steer around Robinson Cano; Rodriguez is going to get a lot of chances. He is hitting .268 this month, and while he's been getting his share of hits, he doesn't have an extra-base hit in his last nine games.

Chicago White Sox, Chris Sale: The big question everybody will be wondering about him -- especially because he is being stressed far beyond anything he's ever experienced -- is how much he has left in the tank. The White Sox wouldn't be leading the AL Central without Sale, and they can't win in the playoffs without him.



Washington Nationals, Tyler Clippard: He is not a "stuff" closer with the overpowering fastball of a Craig Kimbrel or Aroldis Chapman. Rather, Clippard relies on his changeup, and it's worked for him, generally; he's got 32 saves this season. But Clippard's numbers have done down in the second half -- he has 5.74 ERA since the break, after posting a 1.93 ERA before the break. Washington doesn't have as much depth in its bullpen as some of the other teams, and no matter how Davey Johnson uses Clippard, the Nationals need production from him.



St. Louis Cardinals, Chris Carpenter: He's a difference-maker. He showed it last fall in the decisive game against the Philadelphia Phillies and in the last game of the World Series. Carpenter had good movement on his sinker in his first start last week, and if he can continue to pitch effectively, the St. Louis rotation looks very, very different.



San Francisco Giants, Pablo Sandoval: He's been hitting with some power in the last week, and given that other teams will make a strong effort to make sure that Buster Posey doesn't beat them, Sandoval is going to get pitches to hit. The Panda is hitting .312 this month.



Elsewhere


• Kansas City Royals owner David Glass says he'll spend to get pitching this winter. If you are Kyle Lohse or Edwin Jackson or any of the other second-tier free agents, this is a really good thing.

• The White Sox were only four outs from losing sole possession of first place, until Adam Dunn took another massive swing at an 0-2 pitch and clubbed a three-run homer.



From ESPN Stats & Information: Dunn saw 17 pitches Monday, and all were fastballs. It's just the third time in the last four seasons he came to bat four times and didn't see a single non-fastball. Monday's homers gave him 32 this season off fastballs (2/4-seam, sinkers, cutters), five more than anyone else in baseball.

Most HR on fastballs this season in MLB
Adam Dunn: 32
Miguel Cabrera: 27
Curtis Granderson: 26



Most go-ahead HR in eighth inning or later (since '01)
Adam Dunn: 26
Albert Pujols: 24
David Ortiz: 22



Dunn and Robin Ventura said that the White Sox need to relax. The White Sox didn't give in, writes Rick Morrissey.

Before Dunn's home run, the Detroit Tigers appeared poised to move into a first-place tie after Justin Verlander's strong effort.

Justin Verlander vs. Royals on Monday (strikes/pitches)
Fastball: 45/56
Changeup: 18/24
Curveball: 9/13
Slider: 17/21
-- 78 percent strikes overall (career high)

Drew Sharp likes this pennant race.

From Elias Sports Bureau: With Miguel Cabrera leading the AL in average and RBIs, this is the fourth-latest date a player has led in two of the Triple Crown three categories since Carl Yastrzemski win in 1967.

With 42 home runs, 133 RBIs and a .331 BA, Cabrera has a decent shot at reaching 45 home runs and 140 RBIs while hitting .330. Should he reach those numbers, he would join a pretty exclusive list that includes Babe Ruth (six times), Lou Gehrig (four times), Jimmie Foxx (three times), Joe DiMaggio (once), Todd Helton (once) and Hack Wilson (once).

• The Rangers roared back from a deficit against Oakland, with a lot of work from Adrian Beltre.

From Elias: Beltre is the first major league player this season to produce a walk-off RBI in a nine-inning game after recording a lead-changing RBI in the seventh inning or later in the same game.

Beltre's game-tying homer came off a 83 mph slider left up in the zone from Pat Neshek. Beltre told ESPNDallas he was looking for a slider, because he'd been thrown nothing but sliders -- and he's hit a lot of sliders this season, too. Beltre leads MLB with 10 homers on sliders this season. Robinson Cano is second with nine.

Josh Hamilton was back in the Texas lineup after saying he will reduce the amount of caffeine he drinks.

The Athletics are nearing the end of what has been a brutal stretch of schedule, with 17 of 20 games on the road. They couldn't hold the lead against Texas, as Susan Slusser writes. Coco Crisp's pinkeye is not getting better.

After Oakland finishes this series against Texas, it has two home series remaining, against Seattle and then the Rangers.

• Heath Bell ripped Ozzie Guillen, who has other support in the clubhouse, writes Clark Spencer. Odds of Guillen refraining from a response: zero.

Jeffrey Loria was irked by something a former manager said.

AL East


• Andy Pettitte looked terrific again. When the pressure is on, Pettitte responds, writes Joel Sherman.



From ESPN Stats & Info, how Pettitte beat the Twins:



A) Pettitte threw a season-high 57 percent fastballs (2/4-seam). Two of his three strikeouts came on those fastballs; he had only six fastball strikeouts in his first 10 starts this season.
B) Pettitte recorded a season-high 15 of his 17 outs on pitches in the zone, including two double plays.
C) Twins hitters swung at only 11 of Pettitte's 22 sliders, but put the ball in play on eight of those swings (73 percent), his highest percentage in the last four seasons. Those eight swings resulted in seven outs, including four on the ground.

• The Orioles split a doubleheader, and they've fallen to 1½ games behind the Yankees. Steve Johnson made the most of his spot start.

• Henderson Alvarez needs to get better for the Toronto Blue Jays, writes Ken Fidlin.

AL Central
• Luke Hochevar couldn't match Verlander's outing.

• The Indians' best bullpen guy was beaten.

• A Twins rookie was hit hard.

NL East


• The Nationals' magic number for clinching the NL East is down to five. Davey Johnson says he's going to rest his guys down the stretch. From Adam Kilgore's tory:



The Nationals could clinch at the start of, or before, their series with the Cardinals this upcoming weekend. The Cardinals may be fending off pursuers for the second wild-card spot. Johnson defiantly said he would not worry about how resting his starters would impact the race.


"I really don't give a rat's [behind] what somebody thinks about my club and who I put on the field," Johnson said. "I'm resting my regulars. End of conversation. I have a lot of confidence in the other guys, too, in that they're fully capable, as they've shown all year long when they've had the opportunity to play. My responsibility is to get my club ready for the next day. But it's happened in the past. I've had criticism. And I've said, 'Fine.' I'm not worried."


• This is worth remembering, as we prepare for the playoffs: The sun monster in the late afternoon is really tough in Washington, writes Amanda Comak.

• The Phillies have no intention of shutting down Roy Halladay, writes Ryan Lawrence.

NL Central


• The Cardinals are now 6-1 in the first seven games of their nine-game Astros-Cubs-Astros sandwich, and it has helped them build their lead in the wild-card race. On Monday, Lance Lynn picked on the Houston Astros.

• Milwaukee has made a valiant run, but the Brewers might be running out of gas: They were crushed by the Nationals on Monday.

• The Astros suffered their 103rd defeat. Their run differential is at minus-218.

• The Pittsburgh Pirates just keep losing.

NL West


• The Los Angeles Dodgers have a lot of hitting issues.

Moves, deals and decisions


1. B.J. Upton is headed toward free agency, as Marc Topkin writes.



2. The Boston Red Sox are sizing up catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia.



3. David Ortiz wants a respectable deal.



4. Pirates GM Neal Huntington is not planning any staff changes.



5. The first decisions made by the Indians this offseason will be about manager Manny Acta and the front office.



6. The Twins' bullpen could use a boost.



7. Tyler Skaggs has been shut down the Arizona Diamondbacks.



8. The San Francisco Giants have to get ready for the postseason.



Dings and dents


1. St. Louis GM John Mozeliak indicates he doesn't think Rafael Furcal and Lance Berkman will be back for the postseason.
 
going to latino night tonight at the phillies game. i know there chances of makin the playoffs are not possible now but ima still go and support the last home series!
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444180004578016652376246198.html

OB-US150_Announ_G_20120924204102.jpg
 
Verlander is ridiculous. Easily the best pitcher in the majors at this point.
Old man Pettitte's got a sub 3 ERA? Must be on that Bartolo Colon workout plan. :lol:
Is it just me or has Leyland been overworking and disregarding Verlander's pitch count trying to chase down the CWS?
 
Sup Trill

Braves win walk off Freddie Free. Happy for Chipper got to get a Champagne shower.

Lets go Philies. :x
 
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Sup Trill
Braves win walk off Freddie Free. Happy for Chipper got to get a Champagne shower.
Lets go Philies. :x

Sup. Yeah it's been awhile for me to post on NT, due to work and school. I'm watching Freddie's walkoff over and over again. :pimp:

Imagine if we win our next five and the Nats lose their next five by Sunday.
 
Congrats to Chipper & the Braves (& their fans). Chipper & gang are going to try & make a run of it before he hangs up the cleats...
 
 10 rows from the visitors dugout lastnight in philly. A guy next to me yelled at bryce harper and said "your on steroids" harper turned around and flexed his muscle aha. Also the **** they were saying to werth was classic
 
Nats and O's need to get these losses out of their system by the next two weeks....:smh:


Orioles bats have gone cold and they keep leaving men on base. Losing two out of three to the Blue Jays at home is :x, but with the law of averages, the Jays who lost 7 straight were due to break out of their slump.
 
^ that don't suprise me, Eric Gagne wrote in his recent auto-biography that about 80% of the Dodgers he played with were actively taking HGH while he played for them...

I think performance enhancing drugs are rampantly used in MLB, NBA, & especially the NFL....
 
^ that don't suprise me, Eric Gagne wrote in his recent auto-biography that about 80% of the Dodgers he played with were actively taking HGH while he played for them...
I think performance enhancing drugs are rampantly used in MLB, NBA, & especially the NFL....


I agree, there are still folks out there flying under the radar willing to risk everything just to stay competitive. Science and technology trumps testing methods and procedures 95% of the time.
 
^ that don't suprise me, Eric Gagne wrote in his recent auto-biography that about 80% of the Dodgers he played with were actively taking HGH while he played for them...
I think performance enhancing drugs are rampantly used in MLB, NBA, & especially the NFL....


I agree, there are still folks out there flying under the radar willing to risk everything just to stay competitive. Science and technology trumps testing methods and procedures 95% of the time.

I think it's less about trying to stay competitive & more trying to get that big contract...
 
Yeah that's true as well.....unfortunately. But some guys who already had the big contracts and endorsements still chose to juice.

The money/business side of professional sports has definitely tainted the games.
 
Holy ish, the O's signed Deion!!!



JK, he visited the team & took some BP...But Deion's hoping the O's bandwagon...
 
Mets Won't Pursue Upton, Bourn Or Victorino
http://baseball.realgm.com/src_wire...26/mets_wont_pursue_upton_bourn_or_victorino/



According to high-ranking insiders, the Mets will not pursue any high-profile outfielders via free agency this winter.


They do not view this offseason as the time to commit significant money to outfielders, so they do not expect to pursue high-profile players.


B.J. Upton, Michael Bourn and Shane Victorino are expected to highlight the free-agent market.
 
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