**Seattle Mariners 2024 Season Thread ** | 6-8 | v. Cubs & Reds |

[DsLee]

Again though landing even one of those guys would be cool, I don't feel like we're going to be able to pull it off obviously. Winter dreams are nice though...

 

[finnns2003]

I've heard this song and dance before. Weren't we supposed to land Hamilton? Screw it, I won't believe it til it's concrete.

 

[proshares]

Doesn't sound so much like it from Cano's side. Sounds like that extra $25mm is enticing him to leave. Is it worth $25mm to leave New York for Seattle?

Not to dump on Seattle either...but do all these moves even make them the 3rd place team?

 

[651akathepaul]

It will sell tickets.

 

[finnns2003]

Would take much more than Cano to become a contender. We need outfielders that can play. Trade for Kemp AND get Cano? Now we're talkin.

 

[DsLee]

While we're dreaming, what's the possibility of Cano, Kemp AND Beltran???.. Winter dreaming...$48 mill for 3 years of Beltran would be horrible though... But the possibility of $28 mill over 8 years for Cano isn't more appealing.

 

[proshares]

Sounds more and more like it comes down to KC and NY for Beltran...unless they really overpay him.

I honestly think Kemp is a real shot.

 

[finnns2003]

While we're dreaming, what's the possibility of Cano, Kemp AND Beltran???.. Winter dreaming...$48 mill for 3 years of Beltran would be horrible though... But the possibility of $28 mill over 8 years for Cano isn't more appealing.

Seattle either overpays for the stars or it'll be a musical performance by Willie Bloomquist and The Young Kids

 

[DsLee]

Finnns I'm all for it, spend that ROOT money!!! M's could be Dodgers North West!

 

[buc em]

C'mon Mariners...gimme a reason to start watching baseball again.

 

[DsLee]

I expect to see a domino effect for the available outfielders once Beltran signs wherever he does.

If the M's fail to sign him, I pray they give LA what they want for Kemp instead of getting Nelson Cruz...

 

[checks grossman]

Kemp is interdasting. Wonder what names they are throwing around in trade talks. 

Glad Ellsbury went elsewhere especially at that price. Go on and offer Cano 8/200 and hope you get lucky if the interest in genuine. Also wouldn't sleep on a possible Soo-Choo return to Seattle.

 

[Sinner]

We're gonna have to overpay regardless... who would we rather overpay... Hmmm.

 

[finnns2003]

Finnns I'm all for it, spend that ROOT money!!! M's could be Dodgers North West!

Why not? I'm all for it. This team needs to use its resources.

Hopefully Chuck retiring means more money spent

 

[651akathepaul]

I think Mariners need to make a play for Kemp today. With Jacoby signing with N.Y., the M's need to show Cano that they will pay him and also be competitive.

 

[finnns2003]

I think Mariners need to make a play for Kemp today. With Jacoby signing with N.Y., the M's need to show Cano that they will pay him and also be competitive.

 

[proshares]

Really good piece on the M's & Cano.

A week or two ago, Jim Bowden speculated that the Mariners could steal Robinson Cano from the Yankees with a massive offer. I think most of us shrugged it off as nothing more than conjecture. Today, though, speculation of what might be possible turned into a suggestion that the Mariners are actually attempting to sign Cano, as Wallace Matthews of ESPN New York reported that the Mariners had “emerged as major players” for the game’s best second baseman. So, let’s talk about Cano and the Mariners for a second.
Robinson Cano is a very good player, having been worth +5 WAR or more in each of the last four seasons. In fact, over that four year span, he ranks #2 in WAR behind only Miguel Cabrera. A decent defensive second baseman who can hit like a first baseman is an absurdly valuable thing. Robinson Cano is asking for a huge contract because he’s one of the game’s very best players. The Mariners need more talent than they have, and no free agent would inject more talent into the organization faster than Cano would.
So, yes, Robinson Cano is a fit for the Mariners, even though they already have one second baseman too many. If signing Robinson Cano for a reasonable price becomes a reality, you don’t bother worrying about what you’re going to do with Nick Franklin and Dustin Ackley. The goal isn’t to find an outfielder or a #3 pitcher or a closer; the goal is to get better. Robinson Cano would make the Mariners a lot better.
And the Mariners have money to spend. Enough money to make Cano a big time offer. Enough money to offer more than the Yankees are reportedly offering. It’s an unusual situation, but the Mariners are in a position to outbid the Yankees. This is what happens when you have two players under contract. If the Mariners want to make Cano choose between money and geography, they can. And I’d imagine a lot of people will want them to do exactly that, noting that Cano would give the Mariners credibility again, and would signify to everyone that they’re not just perpetually rebuilding. I expect that there are a lot of people who are very excited about the idea of the Mariners pursuing Robinson Cano.
Personally, I’m less excited. Less excited because I don’t think Robinson Cano is actually all that likely to be interested in playing for Seattle. Less excited because I think the gap between the offer the Mariners would have to give him and what the Yankees are willing to make is likely going to have to be so enormous that any deal for Cano would automatically restrict the organization from upgrading at other positions. Less excited because part of the failures of the front office the last two winters has been the seductive possibility of paying big money for a star, and by the time they realized it wasn’t happening, better alternatives were no longer available.
Two years ago, it was Prince Fielder. The M’s waited around for Fielder’s price to come down, keeping their options open in case Scott Boras decided to engage them on a deal for a contract south of $200 million. Fielder stayed on the free agent market until January 26th, and the Mariners basically sat out most of the winter waiting to see what might happen with Fielder. They skipped out on other young players who could have helped both short term and long term — such as Jose Reyes and Yu Darvish — and waited too long to get into the trade market, eventually flipping Michael Pineda for Jesus Montero three days before Fielder signed with the Tigers.
Last year, it was first Josh Hamilton, then Justin Upton. They went after Hamilton first, using the winter meetings as a chance to make a run at the best power hitter on the free agent market. Finally, on December 15th, they learned that Hamilton would be signing with the Angels instead, so they switched gears and tried to make a big trade with Arizona to bring Upton to Seattle. They finally reached an agreement on the players with Arizona on January 10th, only to have Upton use his no-trade clause to block the deal. Again, they found themselves in January without their preferred options, and moved on to trading John Jaso for Michael Morse instead.
By all reasonable accounts, Robinson Cano’s free agency is going to take a while. The Mariners aren’t going to sign him this week, or even next week, most likely. He’s not going to just rush into changing teams without testing the Yankees resolve to keep him. Odds are pretty good that his preferred option is to re-sign with New York, so the only way the Mariners are going to convince him to come west is to make the financial difference so large that he can’t turn it down. But the size of that gap won’t be known until the Yankees make their last and best offer. And they haven’t done that yet. They probably won’t do that any time soon. The Yankees don’t need to get Robinson Cano resolved before they can move on with their off-season.
So, Cano’s representatives will keep flirting with the Mariners. If they’re going to get the Yankees to raise their offer, they need a reason to make them do so, and no other team has shown any serious interest yet. The Mariners interest in Cano is useful to Cano’s representatives, even if Cano has no real interest in signing here. It’s in their interest to drag this thing out; it is not in the Mariners best interest to be involved in another empty pursuit of a splashy signing.
And really, it might not even be in their best interest to sign Cano. The Yankees reported first offer was for $160 million over seven years, with reports suggesting they’d push up to $175 million, which would put them at $25 million per season. For the Mariners to convince Cano to leave New York, they’re not going to get him for $180 million or $190 million. He’s not going from New York to Seattle for an extra $2 or $3 million per year. If they’re going to get Cano to really consider leaving New York, they’re going to have to guarantee those last few years where New York is saying no. They’re going to have to go to eight or nine or maybe even 10 years. They’re going to have to come in well north of $200 million, maybe even pushing towards $250 million. That’s the kind of offer that would turn this from a flirtation into an actual possibility.
But Robinson Cano is not worth $250 million. Last month, I wrote a piece about long term deals at FanGraphs, and used an example of a nine year, $225 million contract for Cano to illustrate the changing value of the deal over the life of the contract. For the estimate, I started Cano as a +6 WAR player, and a $225 million contract still came out to $7 million per projected win, a little higher than the going rate for free agents right now. But, in reality, Cano’s probably more of a +5 WAR player than a +6 WAR player in 2014, and it’s more reasonable to start him from a lower threshold. If we repeat that table but lower the estimate of his performance a bit, we get this.

Year ? Salary Projected WAR $/WAR
2014 $22,000,000 5.0 $3,666,667
2015 $24,000,000 4.5 $4,363,636
2016 $25,000,000 4.0 $5,000,000
2017 $25,000,000 3.3 $5,813,953
2018 $25,000,000 2.6 $6,944,444
2019 $25,000,000 1.9 $8,620,690
2020 $25,000,000 1.2 $11,363,636
2021 $26,000,000 0.5 $17,333,333
2022 $28,000,000 0.0 $35,000,000
Total $225,000,000 23.0 $9,782,609
Simply shifting Cano from the starting spot of a +6 WAR player to a +5 WAR player drives the price from $7 million per win to nearly $10 million per win. And that’s without the 10th year, which would be projected to be a total waste at this point. If they had to go to 10/250 to get him, you’d be looking at $11 million per win, almost double what other teams are paying. You can argue that the Mariners have to pay more to get free agents to sign here, but they shouldn’t have to pay double. When a free agent is costing you that much of a premium, you’re better off just reallocating your dollars to players who don’t have that kind of leverage and will take something closer to market rates to play here.
For $200+ million, Cano might make the Mariners better by five or six wins next year. But they could also buy five or six wins for a whole hell of a lot less than $200 million by pursuing players who don’t require crazy overpays to leave the Yankees. I’m not arguing that the Mariners shouldn’t sign Cano because I don’t want the M’s to spend money; I just want them to spend their money well enough so that it’s not Robinson Cano, Felix Hernandez, and 23 piles of crap.
I’d write more, but news is breaking that the Yankees are about to sign Jacoby Ellsbury, so now i have to go write about that. So here’s a very brief conclusion. Mariners, I get why you like Robinson Cano. I get why he’s pretending to like you back. Don’t fall for it, though. Don’t be the nerd doing the pretty girl’s homework in hopes that she’s going to realize that the jocks are stupid and you’re the one for her. You’re just going to end up in the friend zone. Go find someone who is actually into you for you, and not someone who wants to use you for your money.

 

[a55a5in11]

Summit at fan fest if they sign canyes and get kemp?

 

[dakid23]

I'm there!

 

[DsLee]

While we're in winter wonder land mode, can we make a run at Tanaka as well once that posting issue gets settled?!

Heard Mark Cuban's named attached to the M's as well...

#DodgersNorthWest

 

[Sinner]

Summit at fan fest if they sign canyes and get kemp?

I'll hold the fort here on NT! 

 

[dakid23]

Heard Mark Cuban's named attached to the M's as well...

#DodgersNorthWest

Don't get your hopes up....

Is Mark Cuban Interested in the Mariners?
The Mariners leadership is going through a tumultuous stretch, to say the least.

Owner Hiroshi Yamauchi passed away in September. Team President Chuck Armstrong retired on Monday.

So what does this mean going forward, and are they signs that a bigger change is on the horizon?

M’s CEO Howard Lincoln has said repeatedly, he has no plans to sell the franchise, estimated by Forbes to now be worth $644 million, 12th in Major League Baseball.

Every time this issue percolates, local fans go ‘a-twitter’ about a potential buyer: Mark Cuban.

He tested the waters on buying the Chicago Cubs in 2008, and most recently, in 2010, lost a bidding war for the Texas Rangers.

The owner of the NBA’s Dallas Mavericks holds a soft spot for many local Seattle fans. He was one of two owners (Paul Allen the other) to vote against the Sonics move to Oklahoma City in 2008, and I’m told, was one of eight to approve the sale, and relocation of the Sacramento Kings to Seattle in May. He, by all accounts, is bullish on Seattle.

He’s also, through that NBA story, been straightforward with me. He was the first owner to explain the economics against expansion, even though it may not have been the answer Seattle or Sacramento fans were looking for at the time.

So, I reached out again to the “Shark Tank” star, about the Mariners.

This week, I sent him a quick note:

“Have you/Are you interested in buying the Mariners?”

He was quick to reply.

“No”.

So, there’s that.

 

[checks grossman]

Tai Walker/Franklin for David Price? I'd do that in a heartbeat. 

 

[651akathepaul]

Tai Walker/Franklin for David Price? I'd do that in a heartbeat. 

Only if they get Cano...Or else it only creates more issues offensively.

 

[checks grossman]

 It'd definitely be a blunder without a move for Cano. Like to be able to think they'd be able to trade for Kemp without giving up Tai if all else fails there.