Clemens: YOUTUBE response (12.26.07), 60 Minutes interview (01.06.08), press conference (01.07.08)

#1- Where did Canseco say that Roger was completely innocent? I'm been following all of this pretty closely, but I never caught that. Where did you hear that?
#2- Roger would need for someone to say that they're lying. Roger saying that he didn't do it is no different than anyone in America saying, "I'm not lying. You don't believe me? Just ask me, I'll tell you."
#1...it was on ESPN about a week after the Mitchell Report came out. He never said Roger was innocent but in a nutshell said that if anyone wasgonna do steriods they would go through him so he highly doubted that he did them. I'm not saying that Canseco is the be all and end all on the topic.

#2 Even if McNamee said he was lying everyone will still think that Clemens did steroids anyway. It really doesn't matter what anyone says about it,once you are linked you will always be linked and everyone WANTS to believe that Roger did use them.

I'm not gonna lie, it's really no big secret with baseball players. Coming from someone who played on the college level and was working out with a MLBteam, (hurt my ACL and need tommy john) if you become tight with someone they're gonna tell you everything. I know PLENTY of people that have used themand I actually had HGH in my hands my junior year of college but decided not to use them. I've seen someone go from a 30th rounder to a 4th rounder all byjuicing over the summer. I even know some MLBers that weren't named in the Mitchell Report that have used in the past, as well as stories of GMs and headcoaches telling players that they HAVE to use or they will get cut.
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Originally Posted by teets21

#1- Where did Canseco say that Roger was completely innocent? I'm been following all of this pretty closely, but I never caught that. Where did you hear that?
#2- Roger would need for someone to say that they're lying. Roger saying that he didn't do it is no different than anyone in America saying, "I'm not lying. You don't believe me? Just ask me, I'll tell you."
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#1...it was on ESPN about a week after the Mitchell Report came out. He never said Roger was innocent but in a nutshell said that if anyone was gonna do steriods they would go through him so he highly doubted that he did them. I'm not saying that Canseco is the be all and end all on the topic.

#2 Even if McNamee said he was lying everyone will still think that Clemens did steroids anyway. It really doesn't matter what anyone says about it, once you are linked you will always be linked and everyone WANTS to believe that Roger did use them.

I'm not gonna lie, it's really no big secret with baseball players. Coming from someone who played on the college level and was working out with a MLB team, (hurt my ACL and need tommy john) if you become tight with someone they're gonna tell you everything. I know PLENTY of people that have used them and I actually had HGH in my hands my junior year of college but decided not to use them. I've seen someone go from a 30th rounder to a 4th rounder all by juicing over the summer. I even know some MLBers that weren't named in the Mitchell Report that have used in the past, as well as stories of GMs and head coaches telling players that they HAVE to use or they will get cut.

I was talking to a guy last week at the place I am rehabbing my knee at about some of this stuff. He is in the Giants system and is rehabbing his elbow. Hepretty much said some of the same things you just said. I didnt ask about Barry Bonds though.
 
seriously...some of you guys are really reaching...

you can't choose sides one day and switch the next...don't say one day that Canseco has more credibility than anyone and you'd rather take his wordover this subject over the other person...and now today try and question Canseco and what are his motives or w/e...

as far as the conversation that took place between Clemens and his trainer, i DO think it helps his case and what Roger Cossack (who knows what the hellhe's talking about 99% of the time, instead of idiots like Steve Phillips) was saying on ESPN made sense...the question being asked repeatedly by McNamee(what do you want me to do?) could have baited Roger in a situation where the conversation would have taken a turn for the worse and would have been looked atas witness tampering...although Roger could have been a little more direct and confrontive, McNamee was clearly distressed and was emotional and seemed as ifhe regretted what he said...Roger said a couple of times "I want the truth" "I just need the truth" "You know I didn't take thisstuff" "I didn't take steroids" and McNamee NEVER denied or replied with a "you know what you did, i didn't lie"....REMEMBER:McNamee DIDN'T know he was being recorded...there was nothing stopping him from making these words and he never did say it...


Even through all of this, I still think Roger took some form of steroids or did something illegal through his career but he's doing everything he'ssupposed to do to clear his name and hasn't gone into "hiding" like some of you said he'd do...Bonds situation has been going on for a good 5years and Clemens has done more to defend his case in these 3 weeks than Bonds has done in all that time...it's going to be interesting seeing how hereacts and what he says to Congress...that should be the end all, be all for those who are still on the fence regarding this, because everyone's going tobe in the same room at the same time...
 
Where did Canseco say that Roger was completely innocent? I'm been following all of this pretty closely, but I never caught that. Where did you hear that?
teets21:
it was on ESPN about a week after the Mitchell Report came out. He never said Roger was innocent but in a nutshell said that if anyone was gonna do steriods they would go through him so he highly doubted that he did them. I'm not saying that Canseco is the be all and end all on the topic.

I'm not gonna lie, it's really no big secret with baseball players.

O.K., I remember what you're talking about with Canseco; he said he was surprised to see Clemens' name in the report, and that hedoesn't know how his name got there.

But the fact that Canseco is befuddled means nothing to me; Canseco can't cconvince me that he knows with 100 confidence that a specific player DIDN'Tuse; he can only convince me that he knows with 100% confidence that a specific player DID.

So him saying 'McGwire definitely did. I know it' means something; him saying 'Clemens didn't. I know it' means nothing.

And no, it really is no secret that the MLB is comprised of a bunch of cheating 'roiders, and that's why there's not much Clemens can do toconvince me (or most) that he's innocent. We're cognizant that the MLB is still on the tail end of The Steroid Era, so anytime a name comes up, thatguy is going to have to work his tail off to prove his innocence.

As an example, I don't think Griffey has used anything. I didn't think so a couple years ago, BEFORE all of this started blowing up. But now thatwe've gone a couple years with his name STILL being left out of every discussion, it just further solidifies that he's used anything. You know what itwould take to shake the confidence of myself and others like me?

One mention.

We know that MLB is heavily tainted, so it's like, no one is free from accusation. No one. And as confident as I am that Griffey is clean, if his name werementioned by someone with credibility on this issue (like Canseco, Mitchell, or McNamee), my confidence would be shaken.

So it's not about people wanting Clemens to be guilty so much as it people refusing to be blinded by his faultydefense in the face of strong evidence.
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I honestly have no clue i need to hear the phone conversation again does anyone have it?
 
At no point was I ever saying that Canseco was the be all and end all. I just want to make that clear. I was just trying to bring up a point. I honestly do nothave a stance on if Clemens is guilty or innocent of using them. To me right now the game is so "tainted" with the whole steroids issue that I wishthey would just let the whole thing go and start a new chapter of baseball.
 
that should be the end all, be all for those who are still on the fence regarding this, because everyone's going to be in the same room at the same time...


and that's because no ballplayer has lied before congress right? Clemens could be 100% innocent, but his reputation is tarnished, and we may never knowwhat the truth is due to some "he said" "he said" type of stuff....
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teets21:
At no point was I ever saying that Canseco was the be all and end all. I just want to make that clear. I was just trying to bring up a point. I honestly do not have a stance on if Clemens is guilty or innocent of using them. To me right now the game is so "tainted" with the whole steroids issue that I wish they would just let the whole thing go and start a new chapter of baseball.
I know a lot of purists want that, but you can't turn a page in a book without first laying the previous page down.

And part of laying down the page of this steroids issue is dealing with it. And dealing with it involves ugly things like this Clemens deal.

And I know you didn't say that Canseco is the authority on the steroids issue, but I do feel like he's an authority. I've said that many times, onNikeTalk and off. He is currently batting 1.000 ever since opening his mouth about this a few years ago.

He is one of the most bone-headed, arrogant, clueless MLBers in the history of the game, and I still feel like that about him... but he's still batting1.000 since opening his mouth about this a few years ago.
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I know a lot of purists want that, but you can't turn a page in a book without first laying the previous page down.

And part of laying down the page of this steroids issue is dealing with it. And dealing with it involves ugly things like this Clemens deal.
I know what you're saying but the thing I hate the most about this is that it's becoming a witch hunt. It's like the Salem witchcrafttrials where anyone and everyone gets the finger pointed at them, or even like McCarthyism. It's getting to the point where steroids are the biggest partof the game. I mean you really can't stop people from using them. HGH doesn't come up in tests and we will never know which records are tainted andwhich ones aren't. You really have no idea which years guys were using them and which ones guys weren't. I honestly think that from now on if you arecaught using steroids you should be banned from the game. That's really the only way to stop it but the MLBPA will never allow that.
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at 1st i thought no chance this guy mcname is lying now i'm starting to think the other way with the phone call, roger said a few times just tell the truthand he doesnt say i told the truth they made me, he could have said roger they made me tell the truth. another thing i think he also said i will go to jail foryou. that conversation to me made it seem that mcnamee wanted money from roger. i think at some point he asked roger for money and roger said no and mcnameetried to blackmail him by either coming out with the truth or lying. if i'm roger a hall of fame pitcher and a guy has dirt on that i used HGH i'mpaying what ever he wants, but if he is lying i wouldnt pay.


i thought 100% mcnamee was telling the truth a week ago, now its down to 60%


what i need is for the FBI to have them both do lie detector test on TV, thats the only way to clear his name.

if your telling the truth i dont see how you can fail a lie detector test, you might be able to lie and beat it but i would think the chances that you would becalled for lying on the test when your telling the truth is slim.
 
First of all, who knows exactly how much of that phone conversation was edited.

Secondly, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that Clemens and McNamee conspired to make this tape.

Now, I DO doubt both of those possibilities. BUT something seems really fishy to me. Can't quite put my finger on it yet though....

This dude Clemens sat back silent all this time and now all of a sudden is acting as if he's got an ace up his sleeve. Why wasn't he this adamant fromthe jump? You'd think a man who "doesn't give a rat's#$@# about the HOF" and is so concerned with clearing his name would have spoken upMUCH sooner than he did, no?
 
^ I actually DO think that the tape was semi-conducted beforehand, semi-rehearsed ("Don't say this, do say that, I can't ask this, don't askme that.")

I mean, how many times did McNamee repeat, "You treated me like family"?

C'mon, who says that?

Seriously.

Who says that even once to their boy? "You know, man, I've always said you treated me like family. You know that, right? I mean, we ate dinner at ourhouse so many times, watched movies. It was like you were my brother."

Who the heck says that, especially as often as McNamee did?

That's what triggered my suspicions that the phone call was at LEAST semi-coached beforehand.
 
Brian sounds like a guy who truly likes Roger but was between a rock and a hard place and sold his friend out.
 
Originally Posted by aepps20

Brian sounds like a guy who truly likes Roger but was between a rock and a hard place and sold his friend out.
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Which is another reason to think he's TELLING THE TRUTH.

You sell someone out who you don't like.

You sound remorseful and apologetic at having to admit the truth about someone you consider a FRIEND.
 
Originally Posted by memphisboi55

so what happen to they kids.... i kept hearing them say they kids was hurting or something
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Real Talk, McNamee was talkin like his kids were tied up in a dusty basement like "Please daddy say it!" and Mitchell was like "DOIT!!!"
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perhaps some of you guys aren't aware, but macnamee's son is sick from a rare disease called "celiac disease," which prevents properabsorption of nutrients into the small intestine and thus causing damage to it.
 
That tape was edited so Clemens looks like the good guy....All I know is that if one of my friends sold me out, I would have gone Ape ****....that tape waseither edited, or Clemens was coached as to what he should/shouldn't say. He was ENTIRELY too calm during the snippet that was played to the press. Talkingabout, "I responded to you ASAP when I heard about your son" or something along those lines...don't you all think that if Clemens and Pettittewere all buddy-buddy as they say, there would have been a conversation about roids or HGH somewhere during their friendship? I mean these two guys trainedtogether for a long time! I can't wait to see how everything unfolds....
 
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