The Official Anime & Manga Thread Vol: 三

[lexlieno]

what he did, wasnt any greater than naruto in sage mode, beating 5 out of the 6 paths of Pain ( hinata and minato intervened, allowing naruto to beat god realm). The paths, used 1 main technique, same as the edos. Could be brought back to life via a path, and were controlled by another person.
Thank you. Its not like they were actively non stop blitzing him. Orochimaru was screwing around with Hiruzen. Hiruzen wasnt able to beat them, so he sealed his soul away. thats not a win. Thats a last ditch effort to temporarily stop the main threat. If he could actually handle them, he wouldve without killing himself

What do you expect? Running low on chakra vs 2 immortal Hokages and oro, and he still got the job done.  He neutralized the threat.  He made oro useless for the time being, and got rid of both Hokages.  The man died with a smile, I doubt if he would have lose that fight, that he would be smiling.  Naruto also lost control during the pein fight, if it weren't for minato he would be done.  Don't even try to compare Enma and Minato because Enma is a summon used for fighting, Minato came in because Naruto was done mentally.  Dude was about to release the seal and do himself in.

 

[lexlieno]

Hashirama only used mokuton and darkness, and tobirama used a suiton. Thats 3 jutsus used by 2 kages. They werent pulling out their entire arsenals.
but also I mean, 1 had unlimited summons, soul snatching, energy sucking, missile stuff ( i dont even know what that 1 path represented) etc. there was a wide variety of stuff being thrown at naruto, more so than what Hiruzen faced

You make it seem like Naruto was ALONE.  Dude had ma and pa, AND 3 well trained toads with the assist. Not to mention he had 3 backup clones for extra sage mode time. Thats not a great comparison because  Hiruzen only had Enma.

 

[blakep267]

You make it seem like Naruto was ALONE.  Dude had ma and pa, AND 3 well trained toads with the assist. Not to mention he had 3 backup clones for extra sage mode time. Thats not a great comparison because  Hiruzen only had Enma.

toads are naruto's summons. Part of the arsenal. Naruto couldve summoned them himself. Ill give u the sage clones, but lets not forget naruto still had an evil kyuubi inside him that worst come to worst he unleashes and it destroys everything including pain.

be real. If hiruzen was able to summon more monkeys, he wouldve. that just goes to chakra

 

[lexlieno]

toads are naruto's summons. Part of the arsenal. Naruto couldve summoned them himself. Ill give u the sage clones, but be real. If hiruzen was able to summon more monkeys, he wouldve. that just goes to chakra

I can see if it was just him and one, but that destroys your argument. You're talking about endless summons that Naruto didn't even fight.  The toads were busy with the summons for the most part.  Hiruzen fought with Enma for the most part. Enma only really came out when he grabbed oros neck.  Enma didn't go off fighting the hokages and oro by himself.  You'll give me the sage clones? So my point destroys your argument, but we're going to act like it didn't happen, again? Summon more monkeys? why the hell would he need to fight with more staffs???? Have you even seen any other monkeys besides Enma with Hiruzen?!?!? haahaha be real, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[blakep267]

I can see if it was just him and one, but that destroys your argument. You're talking about endless summons that Naruto didn't even fight.  The toads were busy with the summons for the most part.  Hiruzen fought with Enma for the most part. Enma only really came out when he grabbed oros neck.  Enma didn't go off fighting the hokages and oro by himself.  You'll give me the sage clones? So my point destroys your argument, but we're going to act like it didn't happen, again? Summon more monkeys? why the hell would he need to fight with more staffs???? Have you even seen any other monkeys besides Enma with Hiruzen?!?!? haahaha be real, what the hell are you talking about?

and it doesnt destroy my point because Hiruzen knew Oro was going to attack, so if anything youre admitting his preparation sucks more than ****** narutos ( probably shouldve included that earlier). And Monkeys can fight on their own. They arent only staffs. And of course there are more monkeys. dont be ******ed.

 

[lexlieno]

Hashirama only used mokuton and darkness, and tobirama used a suiton. Thats 3 jutsus used by 2 kages. They werent pulling out their entire arsenals.
but also I mean, 1 had unlimited summons, soul snatching, energy sucking, missile stuff ( i dont even know what that 1 path represented) etc. there was a wide variety of stuff being thrown at naruto, 5 other powerful summons, and 3 sage clones to replenish his sage mode,  not to mention mental assistance from Minato, more so than what Hiruzen faced with Enma.

fixed.

and it doesnt destroy my point because Hiruzen knew Oro was going to attack, so if anything youre admitting his preparation sucks more than ****** narutos ( probably shouldve included that earlier). And Monkeys can fight on their own. They arent only staffs. And of course there are more monkeys. dont be ******ed.

Show me the monkeys bro.  Show me another monkey summon in the manga.  You're making stuff up again brosef, and I'm the ******ed one. 

 

[blakep267]

fixed.
Show me the monkeys bro.  Show me another monkey summon in the manga.  You're making stuff up again brosef, and I'm the ******ed one. 

Are you dense? Of course there are more summons. Just because we only see 1, doesnt mean there arent dozens. Gai summoned a turtle, doesnt mean there arent other turtle summons out there. Tsunade only summoned katsuya, doesnt mean other slug summons dont exist. Stop it dude.

 

[lexlieno]

Are you dense? Of course there are more summons. Just because we only see 1, doesnt mean there arent dozens. Gai summoned a turtle, doesnt mean there arent other turtle summons out there. Tsunade only summoned katsuya, doesnt mean other slug summons dont exist. Stop it dude.

SHOW ME THE MONKEYS.  Bring up a panel. That's all i ask.

 

[blakep267]

SHOW ME THE MONKEYS.  Bring up a panel. That's all i ask.

I dont have to. Its more than reasonable to infer that there are more than just 1 summon in an animal family. I could also ask you, show me 1 panel where there is proof that there can only be 1 monkey summon to exist. My statement is much more plausible than yours is.

 

[lexlieno]

toads are naruto's summons. Part of the arsenal. Naruto couldve summoned them himself. Ill give u the sage clones, but lets not forget naruto still had an evil kyuubi inside him that worst come to worst he unleashes and it destroys everything including pain.
be real. If hiruzen was able to summon more monkeys, he wouldve. that just goes to chakra

I dont have to. Its more than reasonable to infer that there are more than just 1 summon in an animal family. I could also ask you, show me 1 panel where there is proff that there can only be 1 monkey summon to exist. My statement is much more plausible than yours is

You're giving characters powers the don't have son.  How are you gonna down play it off to chakra.  Hahaha This is proof of what I've been saying the whole time, facts> opinions.  You've been doing this the whole time.  Is it a fact that there are other monkeys than enma in naruto? NO.  The only monkey we've seen in the manga is ENMA. So stop adding things.

 

[nako xl]

i mean, we've been told there's a land of toads, land of snakes, eagles, etc. it's a fair assumption that that's how summons work once you form the contract.

whether or not hiruzen had another monkey friend is pure speculation, but based on what weve seen there are probably more out there.

 

[lexlieno]

i mean, we've been told there's a land of toads, land of snakes, eagles, etc. it's a fair assumption that that's how summons work once you form the contract.

whether or not hiruzen had another monkey friend is pure speculation, but based on what weve seen there are probably more out there.

enough said.  Pure speculation, Not fact. Next thing he's going to say is Teuchi is from the Ramen clan.

 

[blakep267]

i mean, we've been told there's a land of toads, land of snakes, eagles, etc. it's a fair assumption that that's how summons work once you form the contract.

whether or not hiruzen had another monkey friend is pure speculation, but based on what weve seen there are probably more out there.

enough said.  Pure speculation, Not fact. 

thats how reading works. the author doesnt have to spell everything out for the reader. If you think there are no other monkeys thats just ******ed. Was he not monkey king enma? What was he king of? was gamabunta not boss toad? what was he boss of. Its more than reasonable to believe that there is a land of monkeys. I guess since the manga didnt state that people in naruto land have 2 lungs, akidney etc. they must not have them, right?

 

[superantigen]

i mean, we've been told there's a land of toads, land of snakes, eagles, etc. it's a fair assumption that that's how summons work once you form the contract.

whether or not hiruzen had another monkey friend is pure speculation, but based on what weve seen there are probably more out there.

enough said.  Pure speculation, Not fact. 

It's not speculation, it's common sense.

Just as there are hidden villages of human shinobi, we've seen that there are hidden villages for shinobi animals.

There's a village for snakes, toads, dogs, cats, eagles, etc.

It's not important to show every single animal village. We are given enough evidence to arrive at the conclusion that they exist, even if we don't see them all, or every single shinobi animal in them.

All you've done is speculate a great deal on your part, so quit calling someone else black.





...

 

[lexlieno]

Ok what was the Monkey Queens name? Monkey Prince's? as Nako said, pure speculation.  The moneys could have gotten slaughtered by Itachi.  The fact still remains, no ninja has done anything on the level of the 3rd(minus edos and sot6ps) as to neutralizing 3 kage level opponents in their prime, and you're out of your prime and with minimal help.

 

[blakep267]

Ok what was the Monkey Queens name? Monkey Prince's? as Nako said, pure speculation.  The moneys could have gotten slaughtered by Itachi.  The fact still remains, no ninja has done anything on the level of the 3rd(minus edos and sot6ps) as to neutralizing 3 kage level opponents in their prime, and you're out of your prime and with minimal help.

really? Naruto and bee took on obito and 6 tailed beasts. Shodaime defeated Madara and the kyuubi, Minato took the kyuubi head on and was smart enough to split its chakra up and place both himself and kuchina inside of naruto. All more impressive than getting caught in mokuton and then summoning the death god.

Also I wager naruto current stats wouldve beat oro if he was in Hiruzens position. Im done now

edit: Also Ten Ten used the banana fan and survived. bawse

 

[tdogg2k]

by the way, this argument will be finished by next naruto chap right???


and what would have been the point of summoning other monkeyhs when you already have the king out there. ?

 

[superantigen]

Ok what was the Monkey Queens name? Monkey Prince's? as Nako said, pure speculation.  The moneys could have gotten slaughtered by Itachi.  The fact still remains, no ninja has done anything on the level of the 3rd(minus edos and sot6ps) as to neutralizing 3 kage level opponents in their prime, and you're out of your prime and with minimal help.

What does it matter what their names are?

Anyone who has been a fan of this series knows that Kishi owes a debt of gratitude to traditional Japanese lore and myth, which has in turn, been influenced by the wider Asiatic myth and pantheon.

A perfect example of this can be found in the name given to certain ninja techniques--see Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Izanagi, Izanami, etc--as well as the very characters themselves, with special emphasis on the 9 tails (see the fox demon myth).

Enma, or the monkey King, is an especially vivid example of the contextualization of these traditional myths in a contemporary story (i.e Naruto). If you've familiarize yourself with some portion of this history (which a real fan should do, imo), then you are aware the Enma's real name is Sun Wokong, and is the central character in "the classical Chinese epic novel Journey to the West (Chinese: 西遊記; pinyin: Xīyóujì) written by Wu Cheng'en."

In this legitimate history on Enma, it is revealed that:

[he] was born from a mythical stone formed from the primal forces of chaos, located on the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit (hua guo shan). After joining a clan of monkeys, he earned their respect by discovering the Water Curtain Cave (shui lian dong) behind a large waterfall; the clan made it their new home. The other monkeys honored him as their king, and he called himself Měi Hóuwáng (handsome monkey king).

Lex, did you read that clearly? According to this legitimate history, Enma joined A CLAN OF MONKEYS, and together they CREATED A NEW HOME, or A VILLAGE (see NINJA VILLAGE in the Naruto'verse).

This is the historical fact of the character. Kishi burrowed this character from an older story, and with it came the associated backstory. Do you see now, or you going to try to argue against this piece of factual common sense?

As stated earlier, you can't just go by what only appears in the Naruto series alone. Kishi is a smart story teller, evidenced by how highly successful a story Naruto has become, who is aware of the greater Asiatic canon of mythology. He expertly burrows from the mythology to legitimize his own story, without coming of as a plagiarist. This is why there are references, and not outright proclamations. You as the reader, and fan, must then piece it all together if you are to gain a greater appreciation of the story.

Lesson here: not all information pertinent to a successful telling of the story must be laid out in plain sight. You, the reader, must piece together certain information--a great deal burrowed from historical sources--in order to fully comprehend everything.


Edit:

In reference to the second part of quote, that no ninja blah blah blah, that's an OPINION of yours, and not a fact.




...

 

[blakep267]

by the way, this argument will be finished by next naruto chap right???
and what would have been the point of summoning other monkeyhs when you already have the king out there. ?

yea sorry guys. I got carried away. Ill excuse myself from the thread now

 

[lexlieno]

You notice you always downplay hiruzens feat. Taking on a beast really isn't special. It's been done numerous times. You realize you're saying that naruto and bee in their primes are taking on tailed beasts who are weaker than them, and try to make it a big deal?? Word.

The first ripped the kyubbi from Madara and sealed it. Not hard when you can control tailed beasts. After taking it from madaras control it was a non factor.

You didn't even mention kunshina when talking about Minato. You're hyping it bro. She held the 9tails in check with her Chakra. All Minato had to do was get the seal ready.

 

[lexlieno]

What does it matter what their names are?
Anyone who has been a fan of this series knows that Kishi owes a debt of gratitude to traditional Japanese lore and myth, which has in turn, been influenced by the wider Asiatic myth and pantheon.
A perfect example of this can be found in the name given to certain ninja techniques--see Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Izanagi, Izanami, etc--as well as the very characters themselves, with special emphasis on the 9 tails (see the fox demon myth).
Enma, or the monkey King, is an especially vivid example of the contextualization of these traditional myths in a contemporary story (i.e Naruto). If you've familiarize yourself with some portion of this history (which a real fan should do, imo), then you are aware the Enma's real name is Sun Wokong, and is the central character in "the classical Chinese epic novel Journey to the West (Chinese: 西遊記; pinyin: Xīyóujì) written by Wu Cheng'en."
In this legitimate history on Enma, it is revealed that:
Lex, did you read that clearly? According to this legitimate history, Enma joined A CLAN OF MONKEYS, and together they CREATED A NEW HOME, or A VILLAGE (see NINJA VILLAGE in the Naruto'verse).
This is the historical fact of the character. Kishi burrowed this character from an older story, and with it came the associated backstory. Do you see now, or you going to try to argue against this piece of factual common sense?
As stated earlier, you can't just go by what only appears in the Naruto series alone. Kishi is a smart story teller, evidenced by how highly successful a story Naruto has become, who is aware of the greater Asiatic canon of mythology. He expertly burrows from the mythology to legitimize his own story, without coming of as a plagiarist. This is why there are references, and not outright proclamations. You as the reader, and fan, must then piece it all together if you are to gain a greater appreciation of the story.
Lesson here: not all information pertinent to a successful telling of the story must be laid out in plain sight. You, the reader, must piece together certain information--a great deal burrowed from historical sources--in order to fully comprehend everything.
Edit:
In reference to the second part of quote, that no ninja blah blah blah, that's an OPINION of yours, and not a fact.
...

Dude stick to the manga. Idk where you came from with all of that. Show me in the manga that Enma did all of that.

 

[KingParappa]

When they said Hiruzen was the strongest of the Kage, are you sure they didn't mean strongest of the current 5 kages? (honest question)

 

[lexlieno]

When they said Hiruzen was the strongest of the Kage, are you sure they didn't mean strongest of the current 5 kages? (honest question)

It says he was the strongest of the hokage, and at his time of death he was stronger than the other kage.

 

[KingParappa]

When they said Hiruzen was the strongest of the Kage, are you sure they didn't mean strongest of the current 5 kages? (honest question)

It says he was the strongest of the hokage, and at his time of death he was stronger than the other kage.

So that can be interpret as him being either that he was the Strongest of all the Kage that's ever been or just the five that were alive at the time. Ok argument over since we can't prove which is true. MOVE ALONG!

Outlaw Star, right guys?

 

[lexlieno]

So that can be interpret as him being either that he was the Strongest of all the Kage that's ever been or just the five that were alive at the time. Ok argument over since we can't prove which is true. MOVE ALONG!
Outlaw Star, right guys?

Read harder bro. Strongest of all hokage and stronger than the other Kages at the time of his death.