NBA Legacy Thread, Update Resumes

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm not talkin about today, I'm talkin about over years. For years they've said things like this. I'm just pointing it out. If you're gonna pretend you've never heard any of those examples I gave, that's on you.

The examples you posted makes about zero sense to me, and most of it boils down to your personal opinion of tim being lower than others. (which is fine)


The majority of people think Kobeuncan so I don't know how Kobe became some aggrieved party in Tim Duncan coverage.


Your fixation on the position argument is so weird. He played both the distinction between the two positions is arbitrary. The media likes clean easy narratives, so they take the position he played in his prime.

Tim gets the one franchise winner guy media coverage because he palyed with one franchise and his team won a lot. It's not complex or weird.

nobody watched pistons-spurs game 7



Footnotes don't matter to anyone's career, they all get washed away.


Look you are just going to have to accept that you have a much dimmer view on Tim than the general public. It's not some vast conspiracy. People think Tim is better than you do.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It's as if you can't understand why people think Tim Duncan is so great.


I hold a dimmer view of Michael Jordan than the general public but don't see me outchea acting baffled as to why people think he's so great, or how come the media coverage is so glowing.

 

[CP1708]

I'm not acting baffled, was pointing it out, the day he retired. Won't have to do it anymore.

I am curious now tho, your dimmer views on MJ?????? What/why is that?

 

[antidope]

We could what if every single last thing in life man.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm not acting baffled, was pointing it out, the day he retired. Won't have to do it anymore.

I am curious now tho, your dimmer views on MJ?????? What/why is that?

His undisputed GOAT status just comes from IMO being born at the perfect time with the perfect rule set that maximized his skills.

He and the bulls reached their primes right as the 80's powera were declining, then expansion hit at thinned out the talent pool, basically leaving him no real challengers. Also the illegal defense rules plus hand checking, plus low volume 3 point shoooting were perfect for Jordan skills.



Don't get me wrong, I think MJ could be the GOAT. I just don't think it's so obvious or a lock. I think you could make an argument for like 6 other people


People complain about the Rules benifitting Steph, or they benefited Wilt but imo they benefited Jordan just as much.

 

[CP1708]

I can buy that. Repped.

 

[antidope]

I for one would love to someone to dethrone the MJ myth. It was the perfect combination of talent, timing, and hype.

It's reaching a point where the legacy is becoming a caricature of the player,and realistically it may never be over taken.

Some guy would have to go 9/9 in the playoffs starting year three in their career while shooting 50/50/90 on 27-9-8 to even have a chance, and even then people would question it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Kareem Abdul Jabber got the rawest deal.



His prime occurred in the nadir of the leagues popularity; The 70s.

Played in a tiny market back when market size really mattered for a trash organization.

Was an outspoken black man who nobody liked....during the civil rights era.

His post prime years were spent with someone (Magic) who probably wasn't as good as him as he was in his prime. but was better than him on the Lakers because he was younger.


and through all that still won 6 rings, and still was the go to offensive play in the clutch, even at 40 years old.

 

[Arthur Shelby]

 

[dmxfury]

Definitely think a Kareem GOAT argument is more than valid. Blows me away when people have him like number 5 all time on their list

 

[antidope]

Kareem Abdul Jabber got the rawest deal.



His prime occurred in the nadir of the leagues popularity; The 70s.

Played in a tiny market back when market size really mattered for a trash organization.

Was an outspoken black man who nobody liked....during the civil rights era.

His post prime years were spent with someone (Magic) who probably wasn't as good as him as he was in his prime. but was better than him on the Lakers because he was younger.


and through all that still won 6 rings, and still was the go to offensive play in the clutch, even at 40 years old.

You know whos high on this list? LeBron.

Drafted to an inept franchise.

Huge amounts of media pressure (albeit some of it is self inflicted) to measure up to and/or surpass a player who is basically a ghost now

Said inept franchise squanders his talents year after year.

Does the most practical thing and leaves said inept franchise in a way that is largely hated (His fault but he was 24, I know I wasnt really an adult at 24 from a maturity standpoint, cant imagine what someone who's living a life such as his can turn out to be like)

Insert some years where the hate was by and large justified

Goes back to the inept franchise but now he's the pseudo GM and makes it a serviceable team
New darling team of the NBA beats him and the hate train resumes Beats them the next year and enjoys a tiny hate free grace period. One of the cleanest athletes out from a publicity standpoint especially in a time where the Internet makes everything public and the driver behind the players taking matters into their own hands in terms of Team forming and "rebellion against the owners" but yet.... Probably the most hated basketball player right now.

 

[pmatic]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. LeBron

That's just me.

 

[Peep Game]

Kareem Abdul Jabber got the rawest deal.



His prime occurred in the nadir of the leagues popularity; The 70s.

Played in a tiny market back when market size really mattered for a trash organization.

Was an outspoken black man who nobody liked....during the civil rights era.

His post prime years were spent with someone (Magic) who probably wasn't as good as him as he was in his prime. but was better than him on the Lakers because he was younger.


and through all that still won 6 rings, and still was the go to offensive play in the clutch, even at 40 years old.

Crazy stuff

 

[Maximus Meridius]

If I'm starting a team from scratch I'm still taking Magic over everybody. As a 20 year old performing like that in finals. Winning the closeout game w/o Kareem. People would lose their minds if a rookie did that today. Of course that rookie would have to be on a good team but still... 42, 15 and 7 is 42, 15 and 7.

 

[dmxfury]

Magic was nasty :x

 

[big j 33]

For Duncan, CP's point is that he does get a bit of a pass from the media compared to the Lebron's, Kobe's, Durant's, etc. but oh well. We all know why, he was on a great team, with a great organization, with a great coach, etc., he's been very fortunate in that regard and with that came a pass from the media.

I never cared about Duncan's position, he's a PF/C to me.. and I guess I do knock him a bit for never repeating or making it back to the Finals as often as others, but oh well.

As far as what I saw on the court, he might be one of the more underrated players I've ever watched. The media gets it, they give him his praise, but I really don't think fans appreciated what he was doing over the course of his career. One of the best defenders the league has ever seen. One of the best big men we've seen, maybe the best player of his generation, and a top ten player of all time. 

If Duncan had a better/bigger personality, we'd view him differently as fans. Two of the best players of all time retired this year. While it was both of their time to go, it'll be weird to see the NBA without Duncan and Kobe.

OKB is on the money with the Jordan stuff, too.

 

[wavycrocket]

For Duncan, CP's point is that he does get a bit of a pass from the media compared to the Lebron's, Kobe's, Durant's, etc. but oh well. We all know why, he was on a great team, with a great organization, with a great coach, etc., he's been very fortunate in that regard and with that came a pass from the media.

I never cared about Duncan's position, he's a PF/C to me.. and I guess I do knock him a bit for never repeating or making it back to the Finals as often as others, but oh well.

As far as what I saw on the court, he might be one of the more underrated players I've ever watched. The media gets it, they give him his praise, but I really don't think fans appreciated what he was doing over the course of his career. One of the best defenders the league has ever seen. One of the best big men we've seen, maybe the best player of his generation, and a top ten player of all time. 

If Duncan had a better/bigger personality, we'd view him differently as fans. Two of the best players of all time retired this year. While it was both of their time to go, it'll be weird to see the NBA without Duncan and Kobe.

OKB is on the money with the Jordan stuff, too.

I think Duncan really made his teammates better....moreso than any other star recently. Of course pop was very intregral in that....but even when pop gave the offense to Manu and Tony...Timmy was still the best player on the team.

You could argue that Timmy was the Spurs best player all the way up to 2013.

18ppg 10rpg 2.7 Bpg in 30mpg at age 37. All NBA FIRST TEAM :x IN 2013!!!!

Then his playoff numbers were the same. If Pop didn't goof in game 6...he woulda been Finals MVP. Hell, Tim coulda been Finals MVP over Kawhi in 2014.

As good as Manu and Tony are....they were never the caliber of players that the other top 5 - top 10 players played with.

 

[CP1708]

^
See? That **** right there.

Coulda been MVP here, there, everywhere. Underrated. Better than all his other teammates even when they were clear focal points, they weren't really that good as others, etc etc etc.

The Duncan narrative grows and grows. And people believe that bull ****.

Exactly why I point it out. Makes me look like a salty hater, nae, I'm just countering the garbage overhype.

 

[wavycrocket]

^
See? That **** right there.

Coulda been MVP here, there, everywhere. Underrated. Better than all his other teammates even when they were clear focal points, they weren't really that good as others, etc etc etc.

The Duncan narrative grows and grows. And people believe that bull ****.

Exactly why I point it out. Makes me look like a salty hater, nae, I'm just countering the garbage overhype.

You sound salty....nothing I said was crazy.

You on the other hand....

 

[dmxfury]

CP when Duncan is brought up

 

[pums]

Duncan 5 chips
3 finals MVPs
2 MVPs
Name all the players all time who can match that or come close

 

[wavycrocket]

Duncan 5 chips
3 finals MVPs
2 MVPs
Name all the players all time who can match that or come close

Jordan, Magic.....that's it. Russell would've too. But they didn't give out finals MVPs then I think.

 

[KilroyIverson21]

Just discovered this thread and skimmed through the last couple pages.  For TD, he is definitely up there with the greats.  I've had discussions with a lot of people about where he stands and one valid point that has stuck out is the fact that while he is great it's up in the air on where to put him because throughout his tenure, he was never really the best player in the league.  Lebron, Kobe, MJ, Magic, Bird etc...at one point where the best players in the league/world.  This is no disrespect to TD's game, but I don't disagree when people say he is the best PF but I also don't disagree when they say he wasn't the best player in the league during his time. It's weird, and it kinda fits who TD is.  

 

[6 Rings G.O.A.T.]

 

[wavycrocket]

Just discovered this thread and skimmed through the last couple pages.  For TD, he is definitely up there with the greats.  I've had discussions with a lot of people about where he stands and one valid point that has stuck out is the fact that while he is great it's up in the air on where to put him because throughout his tenure, he was never really the best player in the league.  Lebron, Kobe, MJ, Magic, Bird etc...at one point where the best players in the league/world.  This is no disrespect to TD's game, but I don't disagree when people say he is the best PF but I also don't disagree when they say he wasn't the best player in the league during his time. It's weird, and it kinda fits who TD is.  

TD won back to back MVPs....and 3 Championships from 99-05....Other than Shaq...he was the best player during that time.

More flashy players like AI, Kobe, Tmac, & KG kinda drowned Duncan out at the time....

But he was dominating. You can't win 3 Finals MVPs and 2 MVPs in a 5 year period and not be arguably one of the top 2 players in the league...