OFFICIAL Ye fka "kanYe West" x G.O.O.D. Music Thread - ¥$ (AKA YE X TY DOLLA SIGN) - VULTURES (NOW AVAILABLE WOWWWW)

[nako xl]

Graduation, 808s, and MBDTF are classics?
I'm out.

I think MBDTF is a classic.

and I mean... Drake, Wiz, Cudi (even though he heavily influenced 808s himself) Mike Posner, all those dudes that people call soulful hip hop singing/harmonizing wouldn't exist as they do right now if it wasn't for 808s.  It basically fathered a genre.  So it isn't classic?  It changed music.  I personally will never listen to the album outside of 4 songs because I don't like it that much but i acknowledge what it is.

People were doing autotune before, but as a gimmick like T Pain and Wayne were.  (making an album like 808s was actually wayne's idea and kanye beat him to it.)

Kanye made it something sustainable.  The vocals are less robotic, but Drake and Cudi have been carrying that whiny 808s torch ever since.

 

[lamekilla]

I think MBDTF is a classic.

and I mean... Drake, Wiz, Cudi (even though he heavily influenced 808s himself) Mike Posner, all those dudes that people call soulful hip hop singing/harmonizing wouldn't exist as they do right now if it wasn't for 808s.  It basically fathered a genre.  So it isn't classic?  It changed music.  I personally will never listen to the album outside of 4 songs because I don't like it that much but i acknowledge what it is.

People were doing autotune before, but as a gimmick like T Pain and Wayne were.  (making an album like 808s was actually wayne's idea and kanye beat him to it.)

Kanye made it something sustainable.  The vocals are less robotic, but Drake and Cudi have been carrying that whiny 808s torch ever since.

THIS

And college dropout is a legit classic too

 

[certifiedsw]

So done with this thread lol. I agree with everything Nako and Crag have been saying.

 

[D StaXX]

I rock with Kanye, but y'all give him too much credit.
808s fathered a genre? It changed music? Come on. That sound has been around for years in different genres including hip-hop.
Hell rappers in the south such as Z-Ro has been doing that for YEARS.
Even Max B was on that wave before Kanye. He didn't start that, nor did he make it popular.

Kanye can 2 classics MAX and even those are debatable, though College Dropout is definitely a personal classic to me.
You're telling me 808s can be mentioned with Reasonable Doubt, Illmatic, and Ready to Die?
You said it yourself. You only mess with four songs..
Just because he tries something different as a hip-hop artist doesn't make it a classic.
Kanye is man of many sounds, and a master of like 1. His ability to sample and make a soul beat is impeccable.

 

[nako xl]

So what IS a classic?

Are you saying something can be genre pushing/transcendent but not classic?  I'm willing to make that distinction.  But don't sell an accomplishment short as more of the same.

People were sneering at autotune.  And I was up on Max B.  he was singing in a raspy voice but he wasn't doing THAT.  808s in 2008 was just different.

 

[D StaXX]

A classic in my opinion is a body of work that will ALWAYS last the test of time.
I can pop in Reasonable Doubt right now and completely listen to it all the way through.
A classic album will remind you why we love hip-hop, embodying every aspect that we look for.
Lyrics, production, a story or message..
808s isn't that and as it was released as a hip-hop album, I can't call it a classic.
It did pushed the boundaries of hip-hop, and I'll give Kanye that but I don't know one person who still listens or constantly plays 808.
Kendrick's GKMC is the last hip-hip album that I would consider a classic and it hasn't passed the test of time yet.
10 years from now, I can see myself listening to that album. I can see a debate for MBDTF though.

 

[nako xl]

A classic in my opinion is a body of work that will ALWAYS last the test of time.
I can pop in Reasonable Doubt right now and completely listen to it all the way through.
A classic album will remind you why we love hip-hop, embodying every aspect that we look for.
Lyrics, production, a story or message..
808s isn't that and as it was released as a hip-hop album, I can't call it a classic.
It did pushed the boundaries of hip-hop, and I'll give Kanye that but I don't know one person who still listens or constantly plays 808.
Kendrick's GKMC is the last hip-hip album that I would consider a classic and it hasn't passed the test of time yet.
10 years from now, I can see myself listening to that album. I can see a debate for MBDTF though.

I'm a reasonable person (rare on NT).  Considering I've made the same argument regarding what a classic is and you're right 808s wouldn't be THAT, you've changed my mind and I agree with everything you said.

Well except for GKMC being a classic

  It was an exceptional album, but it's not classic.  People are just really happy a rapper took the time to make a real concept album where every track is connected.

But the actual music on it isn't the greatest.

 

[meek meals]

I rock with Kanye, but y'all give him too much credit.
808s fathered a genre? It changed music? Come on. That sound has been around for years in different genres including hip-hop.
Hell rappers in the south such as Z-Ro has been doing that for YEARS.
Even Max B was on that wave before Kanye. He didn't start that, nor did he make it popular.

Z-Ro and Max B are responsible for Kid Cudi and Drake's sound 2009 and beyond?

40 even said 808's was the inspiration for a lot of the sound he does for Drake.

 

[D StaXX]

I'm a reasonable person (rare on NT).  Considering I've made the same argument regarding what a classic is and you're right 808s wouldn't be THAT, you've changed my mind and I agree with everything you said.

Well except for GKMC being a classic   It was an exceptional album, but it's not classic.  People are just really happy a rapper took the time to make a real concept album where every track is connected.

But the actual music on it isn't the greatest.

My _
I applaud you for being reasonable

 

[D StaXX]

Z-Ro and Max B are responsible for Kid Cudi and Drake's sound 2009 and beyond?​

40 even said 808's was the inspiration for a lot of the sound he does for Drake.​

See above conversation.
We were talking about harmonizing/singing in rap.
& seeing as how Drake has referenced Houston being his second home, it's a fair assessment that he hears Z-Ro often.
You're talking production which is another conversation.

 

[delete1234]

i was listening to blood on the leaves in the car with my sisters and my littlest one gets out and says "wade, that song sounds like a drunk person singing karaoke" LOL

 

[jr paperstacks]

808s is the only Kanye album I consistently listen to. By far my favorite.

 

[gllahone84]

808s is the only Kanye album I consistently listen to. By far my favorite.

I don't understand it. 

 

[xbiker47]

808s is the only Kanye album I consistently listen to. By far my favorite.

Too real when you have girl problems

 

[cragmatic]

Too real when you have girl problems

This. With the girl problems I've had in my life, that album is too relatable. Same with Yeezus at times. On Hold My Liquor when he finishes his verse with "B**** I'm back out my coma."

 

[PRIME]

Kanye's classics - College Dropout, Late Registration, Graduation, 808's, MBDTF

Jay - Reasonable Doubt, Black Album, Blueprint, American Gangster.

Jay's batting average is a LOT lower than Kanye's.

Word? So you're saying that 90% of Kanye's catalog are classics?

808's is a classic? Since when? What replay value does that album have? What replay value does MBDTF have? most of everyone I know haven't listened to that album in damn near over a year. Both of those albums were hot, but weren't classics for damn sure.

In order for something to be a classic, it has to stand the test of time. 808's for damn sure hasn't... And I liked that album...

Kanye probably has one maybe two true classic albums. And those are College Dropout and Graduation...

Whens the last time you heard anything from LR (My favorite out of all of his album outside of College dropout), 808's, etc etc on the radio? They still play Through the Wire, Flashing Lights, and SOMETIMES Gold digger on the radio when they stop playing the new top hip hop songs on the radio around here. And I live in a major city area. So it ain't like my radio station is some small station.

Kanye's catalog > Jay's

Every solo ye' album is considered a classic..

Since when? And by who? Complex Magazine? Hypebeast.com?


Hardly.

According to MTV.. Reasonable doubt is one of the top 10 hip hop albums of ALL TIME. But Kanye's body of work is better right?

But lets not go there. We don't want to argue about how one guy is hailed the G.O.A.T but his former understudy has a greater body of work than him. Because that makes sense....

A classic in my opinion is a body of work that will ALWAYS last the test of time.
I can pop in Reasonable Doubt right now and completely listen to it all the way through.
A classic album will remind you why we love hip-hop, embodying every aspect that we look for.
Lyrics, production, a story or message..
808s isn't that and as it was released as a hip-hop album, I can't call it a classic.
It did pushed the boundaries of hip-hop, and I'll give Kanye that but I don't know one person who still listens or constantly plays 808.
Kendrick's GKMC is the last hip-hip album that I would consider a classic and it hasn't passed the test of time yet.
10 years from now, I can see myself listening to that album. I can see a debate for MBDTF though.

Thank you. Someone gets it.


Kanye's albums have HUGE initial impact. Then after father time comes, what happens? Wheres the longevity in his body of work? Because like some of you said, he has fewer albums than Jay...

But more of Jays albums have stood the test of time.

Listen man, I'm a Kanye fan. A HUGE Kanye fan. But I've listened to SO MUCH of this guys music that I just know from a fan standpoint, the dude has fallen off imo in comparison to his former self. Does he release garbage music? Outside of this album? No. Every album up until now has been amazing to me. Classics? No. In my eyes the dude has 2 true classic albums.

Just cause I feel like this album is trash, that doesn't mean that the dude is trash. He;s one of my favorite artists, and I expected much more out of him. An empty case with red tape? C'mon...

It feels like Kanye is FORCING his music right now man. The same way how Jay was putting out Kingdom Come and EVERYONE thrashed it. This is Kanye's Kingdom Come.

Only difference is, I actually liked KC...

When you have to stress and yell the fact that you're "pushing boundaries" and "doing something for art" or "changing the game", I can't take you serious. Kanye didn't have to force feed me once upon a time. He just put out some dope *** music and it was all natural.

You can't force me to believe that you are pushing artistic boundaries. You have to actually push them.

The last time Kanye pushed artistic boundaries was when he had a full orchestra in the studio. That was 2005... Or when he first initially got in the studio with Daft Punk in 2007...

What has he done on this album thats been any different than he has done before? Because he linked back up with Daft Punk? Because he used Auto Tune, again?

This album is everything he has done before, but not as good as he did it the first time.

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't cut it for me. As a fan, I'm going to tell it straight like it is, how I feel it. And I'm not feeling it.

But I know my reaction to this album isn't "Its ok, I know he'll drop something great next time around". Thats why he can do all this crazy **** right now. Cause he knows his fans will eat that **** up if he packages it with a movie, a sneaker release and a concert with crazy lights and ****. Kanye has to woo you with extra **** to create a platform for his music. The music should be great without all the extra. I shouldn't have to go see this album performed live for it to be a good album to me...


You know why Jay has a stronger stage presence than Kanye? Because his music holds itself up. Kanye's albums USED to do that. I don't know what the hell happened this time around.




And that ladies and gentlemen, is my long *** mutha-******g post

 

[jaymosenvied]

^ 100% with on that one bruh, Repped

 

[D StaXX]

 

[gllahone84]

repped

 

[the hater boxden]

i was listening to blood on the leaves in the car with my sisters and my littlest one gets out and says "wade, that song sounds like a drunk person singing karaoke" LOL

 

[nako xl]

Kanye's classics - College Dropout, Late Registration, Graduation, 808's, MBDTF

Jay - Reasonable Doubt, Black Album, Blueprint, American Gangster.

Jay's batting average is a LOT lower than Kanye's.

Word? So you're saying that 90% of Kanye's catalog are classics?

808's is a classic? Since when? What replay value does that album have? What replay value does MBDTF have? most of everyone I know haven't listened to that album in damn near over a year. Both of those albums were hot, but weren't classics for damn sure.

In order for something to be a classic, it has to stand the test of time. 808's for damn sure hasn't... And I liked that album...

Kanye probably has one maybe two true classic albums. And those are College Dropout and Graduation...

Whens the last time you heard anything from LR (My favorite out of all of his album outside of College dropout), 808's, etc etc on the radio? They still play Through the Wire, Flashing Lights, and SOMETIMES Gold digger on the radio when they stop playing the new top hip hop songs on the radio around here. And I live in a major city area. So it ain't like my radio station is some small station.

...

You know why Jay has a stronger stage presence than Kanye? Because his music holds itself up. Kanye's albums USED to do that. I don't know what the hell happened this time around.




And that ladies and gentlemen, is my long *** mutha-******g post

I mean dog... I'm a bigger Jay Stan than Ye fan and I've got to say you're stating a bunch of opinions as FACTS.  When all they are is opinions.

I live in a larger metropolitan area than you -- NYC -- and until recently I would drive to and from work and to the library every day (I'd spend give or take 3 hours in the car every day) and Ye albums still get played.

They play Gold Digger on top 40 radio regularly (i know. you think LR is his only classic so this is a given.)  I've heard Flashing Lights and Can't Tell Me Nothing recently.

"Amazing" is regularly used on sports telecasts.  Literally all the time.

I heard "All of the Lights" on top 40 radio yesterday. 

Don't even get me started on "Power".  Wasn't that getting played during the NBA Finals?  Not to mention Hot97 and Z100 STILL play that.

Watch the Throne doesn't count but Guru said that was entirely directed and composed by Kanye. Jay took a back seat.

"No Church in the Wild" and "****** in Paris" weren't tremendous records?  Are they even ever gonna release another cop movie without No Church as the music in the trailer?

I bet you're gonna claim you haven't heard "Good Life" in 6 years either, too, right? And i can. not. **** with that song at all.  But you're gonna say his music doesn't stand the test of time?

Not to even mention how many mini-me's albums like MBDTF and WTT have spawned.  Y'all over here riding Travis Scott, umm?

PRIME  you're my dude, and I'll defer to you in the anime thread, but I can't rock with you on this one.  Say you don't like something or say you don't think something, but don't say it like you're absolutely right. sheeit.

 

[nako xl]

P.S. since everyone keeps discussing it and I avoided the convo: sonically/musically/production-wise, imo, Yeezus >> MCHG.  Lyrically the first 2/3 of Magna Carta >>>>>>>>>> Yeezus, but my goodness some of those songs are awful.  Yeezus just sounds better in a vacuum with none of the nonsense other people are factoring in. The production is just better.  Ye makes **** sound better than Timbo at this point.  The tracks just flow better from one to the other too. And ye gets 1000x more out of his features than Jay.  Jay just throws ****** on tracks to have them there. I like BBC, but what a waste of Nas and pharrell.

Good use of Rick Ross on a hot beat.  And... that song's a total throw away.

I think people aren't looking at these albums objectively.  And that's understandable.  You have something you want and expect from your favorite artists and when you don't get that it can be disappointing and it colors your view of the work.  Everyone says that isn't what happened but I think it is...

I just wish Ye was rapping better on Yeezus.  So many struggle verses.  But Jay had to force Beyonce into every aspect of this album be it lyrics or awful features, I'd just take Yeezus > this for rap album of the year so far.

Born Sinner sucks.  Straight audio Nyquil.

Time to wait for Drake.  I hope he cries less about being famous this time around.

 

[htg designs]

JayZ is better than Kanye. The End.

 

[dt43]

PRIME you never got around to naming Jay-Z's classic albums, you've only talked about how such and such Kanye album is not classic.

Kanye's albums have HUGE initial impact. Then after father time comes, what happens? Wheres the longevity in his body of work? Because like some of you said, he has fewer albums than Jay...

But more of Jays albums have stood the test of time.

That's 100% your opinion though. Myself, and most people I know, listen to Kanye's old stuff from CD, LR, etc a lot more than old Jay songs from Vol. 1 or whatever.

A fair amount of Jay's material is subpar or half-assed commercial stuff. Forget albums, if you did a track by track analysis of Jay-Z's discography vs Ye's discography, Kanye just straight up has more consistent good songs and far fewer wack ones. Of course that's just my humble opinion also, but I'd be willing to actually put that discussion on the table and see what people think. I mean, CD, LR, Graduation those albums have maybe 3 bad songs between them (prob all from Graduation).

It feels like Kanye is FORCING his music right now man. The same way how Jay was putting out Kingdom Come and EVERYONE thrashed it. This is Kanye's Kingdom Come.

That's a fair comparison.

Kanye has to woo you with extra **** to create a platform for his music.

That's because he learned from the king of doing that. Making business deals to go platinum and taking out commercials during the NBA Finals? Faking retirement? Dropping bars about how he knows Obama and that the Feds are investigating him? Constantly basking in the publicity of his marriage to another pop superstar? If we're talking about just letting the music speak, Jay-Z is the last artist I'd mention.



I read your whole post and I agree with a lot of the points made. But honestly, it sounds like all you're saying is "I didn't like Yeezus".. which is fine. Every great artist has some not so great albums. But you're trying to build a false narrative around this particular subpar Kanye album, to try to convince people that Kanye is falling off or his career is going downhill. Whereas other people just see it as a creative misstep.

 

[dt43]

Hudson Mohawke might regret these tweets

http://pigeonsandplanes.com/2013/07/hudson-mohawke-jay-z-pusha-t/