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Bird is better than Melo at every aspect of the game other than scoring which is very close. Melo is far far from the complete player Bird was. Bird was a winner.
How good would Larry Bird be in today's game?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by monstar1,
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He shoots 45% from the field man, how can he be one of the best offensive talents?
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Originally Posted by HankMoody
Originally Posted by Mez 0ne
He looked GREAT Vs the Bulls and Celtics (for a change, and he got praise for it), I'm talking about Finals games when it matters most....what has he done in the Finals in his career thus far when it matters most?Originally Posted by HankMoody
You can't prove me wrongLeBron closed against the Celts and Bulls LAST YEAR. He consistently closed out in previous years. Against the Wizards, game winnong shots agains tthe Magic, against the Pistons, going blow for blow against Pierce... Where was Wade? You are a revisionist and have no clue what you are talking about. Look at the history of his career.
19.5 PPG on 41.7 FG percentage in the Finals for his career thus far, always shooting those dumb fadeaway three pointers for a "game winner" as if its a high percentage shot and looks like a deer in headlights.
For a change?That's how he's always played.Look at his career. You can fault him for his Finals play last year. There is no way I can defend that. But that doesn't mean I will forget what he has done. Just like I won't forget that Larry Bird played terribly one year and was bounced from the first round. There are very few players with spotless resumes a la MJ and possibly Magic. To say LeBron shrinks in the playoffs is being historically inaccurate. There is no other way to put it. This is what terrible sports fan do. They pick and choose what to highlight. This has been toxic to every discussion on this board.
Anyone downplaying LeBron for not playing well for 6 games last June...how about you knock Bird down a notch for never being a dominant defender, individual or team?
Bill Russell was 6'9 220....It's not slight against Bill, Wilt, and those guys...but come on.
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Since this is all Bron - Bird lets flip the script... How good would Bron be in the 80's?
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..let's just lock this up.
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Ettore Messina, Lakers special consult and a legendary Euroleague coach recently said this in an article on the differences between European and NBA basketball:
"Also on the list of impressive features on display in the NBA is lateral quickness. Players are often able to find solutions to defensive problems just by making astonishingly quick lateral moves to restore their positions. This is a truly game-changing factor.
I have to admit that before coming over here I, like many fellow Europeans, wrongly believed that we were much better shooters as compared to NBA guys. The truth is shooting percentages here are mostly the result of outstanding athleticism and savvy of the defenders. Otherwise, if you give an average player an open shot, he’ll hit it with the same consistency as your European guy."
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But yeah, shooting has just gotten worse....evolution seems to take place in everything in life except mid-range shooting in basketball
.. My friends swear that everyone shot like Ray Allen back in the day
... [/font]
"Also on the list of impressive features on display in the NBA is lateral quickness. Players are often able to find solutions to defensive problems just by making astonishingly quick lateral moves to restore their positions. This is a truly game-changing factor.
I have to admit that before coming over here I, like many fellow Europeans, wrongly believed that we were much better shooters as compared to NBA guys. The truth is shooting percentages here are mostly the result of outstanding athleticism and savvy of the defenders. Otherwise, if you give an average player an open shot, he’ll hit it with the same consistency as your European guy."
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But yeah, shooting has just gotten worse....evolution seems to take place in everything in life except mid-range shooting in basketball
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Melo being better than bird is far fetched?
You really just typed this sentence?
He's one of the best offensive talents we have ever seen.
A volume scorer who shoots 46/32/81 for his career and isn't a good passer is one of the best offensive talents ever?
Bird > Melo on offense, and it's not even close. Bird was a 50/40/90 threatin his prime. He and Steve Nash are the only two guys in history to have multiple 50/40/90 seasons.
And I don't know if you forgot passing is a part of offense but you're comparing a guy who can barely manage to run a simple pick and roll with Amare to someone who used to do stuff like this:
And if you say Birds defense was significantly better, you're lying.
Again, you have no clue what you're talking about.Melo is a pylon on defense. There's nothing he does well on that end. Bird was top 10 in defensive rating 5 times and top 10 in defensive win shares 8 times including leading the league 4 times. Sure he wasn't a great 1 on 1 defender but he was a great team defender in his prime.
Should we talk about rebounding? Melo's highest rebounding rate in a season is 11.8%. Bird was over 11.8% every single year of his career and that's playing alongside Parish and McHale.
Bird would want no parts of melo on the block or out on the perimeter
Oh, but Melo would D up Bird though?
Soooo to sum up...
Shooting: Bird >>> Melo
Passing: Bird >>> Melo
Defense: Bird >>> Melo
Rebounding: Bird >>> Melo
Leadership/Intangibles: Bird >>> Melo
The audacity to even compare Carmelo !@+%@%* Anthony to Larry Bird.
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No flagrant fouls in the 80s, hand checking? I don't know. It was a different time then. I think he would have to become more skilled, because first you have to factor in what preparation (same as I stated for Bird but vice-versa) was for back in those days. But he has great court vision, however he would have to toughen up mentally. I think he would fare just fine though, top 2-4 SF, 5-10 player.
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Can't go backwards because alot of LeBrons game was learned from past greats. But real talk I think LeBron would've got punished every drive to the rim. Dudes in the 80's didn't let you dunk on them like today. Naw that hard foul was coming. Also with his sometimes poor footwork and handle I think the dudes handchecking him would've really frustrated him. At the end of the day he still would be a hell of a player though. He's good money in any era.
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Is LeBron paying your mortgage?
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Clever.
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Captain-save-a-Bron's in full effect on NT, for no !!#*@#+ reason.
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Bird would be Larry Legend all over again. I think he would adjust his game in whichever way to be on top as all great players do and his IQ was off the charts.
You guys are bringing up the fact that he would have trouble with KD and Lebron but who doesn't have problems guarding them?
You guys are bringing up the fact that he would have trouble with KD and Lebron but who doesn't have problems guarding them?
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LeBron...and thats why most are saying Bron over Larry. LeBron doesn't have a problem guarding any human 1-4 for the most part. Thats a huge attritube.
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He would murk dudes left and right.
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Thanks.Originally Posted by 651akathePaul
Clever.
solarius49
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The question isnt if Larry would be better than Bron, it's how good would Bird be.
Athleticism while important is incredibly overrated unless you want to see big dunks every day. Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Kidd, Z-Bo, Illgauskis, Brad Miller (who has had a respectable career regardless of what his is now), Bargnani...all have had good/respectable careers. Bird has the athleticism of all of those guys, and 10x the skillset of both.
And like buddy said earlier, Reggie Miller (my favorite player ever) was killing the league at 44 years old, and he came into basketball in a different era, but his game never suffered. Nash, Kidd, all less athletic guys who came into the league in a different era who have continued to be great players into this era.
Athleticism while important is incredibly overrated unless you want to see big dunks every day. Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Kidd, Z-Bo, Illgauskis, Brad Miller (who has had a respectable career regardless of what his is now), Bargnani...all have had good/respectable careers. Bird has the athleticism of all of those guys, and 10x the skillset of both.
And like buddy said earlier, Reggie Miller (my favorite player ever) was killing the league at 44 years old, and he came into basketball in a different era, but his game never suffered. Nash, Kidd, all less athletic guys who came into the league in a different era who have continued to be great players into this era.
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People are foregetting teams in the 1980s where much deeper than teams are today. Which equals Bird played against better teams( competition)
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that's not what he was saying.
he was saying that the "he can't guard ___" argument is lacking because there are certain scorers who score on anyone. Kobe, Durant, Rose, Melo, etc would give buckets to anybody in the NBA past or present. so to name some of the best scorers in the league and say Bird wouldn't shut them down is disingenuous to the discussion.
hop off Lebron, this thread isn't even about him.
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Please........
If he can murder players like these:
Acting like he was unathletic before all the injuries, he was not at the top when it came to it but for a 6'10, 220 + lb guy, he was really coordinate and mobile, quickest hands, great hand eye coordination, 28'' inch vert, really strong...
If he can make passes like these:
If he can play D like this:
Under tougher play, stricter rules, better competition. Acting like Pip, MJ, Rodman Wilkins, Bobby Jones, Cliff Robinson (who made all D teams in the 00's), Horace Grant, Orlando Woolridge, Kersey, Cummings, Erving, Cooper, Worthy, Nance and so on.... weren't really athletical. Who could do a better job? Plus with soft rules and big men.
There's no doubt he would dominate, at least, like he did. That question is too ignorant and funny LOL. Plus seeing what Dirk and K-Love can do, imagine Bird.
If he can murder players like these:
Acting like he was unathletic before all the injuries, he was not at the top when it came to it but for a 6'10, 220 + lb guy, he was really coordinate and mobile, quickest hands, great hand eye coordination, 28'' inch vert, really strong...
If he can make passes like these:
If he can play D like this:
Under tougher play, stricter rules, better competition. Acting like Pip, MJ, Rodman Wilkins, Bobby Jones, Cliff Robinson (who made all D teams in the 00's), Horace Grant, Orlando Woolridge, Kersey, Cummings, Erving, Cooper, Worthy, Nance and so on.... weren't really athletical. Who could do a better job? Plus with soft rules and big men.
There's no doubt he would dominate, at least, like he did. That question is too ignorant and funny LOL. Plus seeing what Dirk and K-Love can do, imagine Bird.
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he would be bird, not Bird, i would say he wouldnt start, wouldve been super late in the draft (if drafted), and wouldve came off the bench (if drafted)
Magic was a little better athletically so he wouldve made it mid-draft, but honestly i think he would be closer to Melo status, he works better with a team than Melo but he probably wouldnt have enough for the ring
but right place, right time, these guys were essential to basketballs growth, we needed them to be in the era they were in to expand basketballs popularity/fame
Magic was a little better athletically so he wouldve made it mid-draft, but honestly i think he would be closer to Melo status, he works better with a team than Melo but he probably wouldnt have enough for the ring
but right place, right time, these guys were essential to basketballs growth, we needed them to be in the era they were in to expand basketballs popularity/fame
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Larry Bird wouldn't start? Larry Bird would possibly not get drafted?
Shut Up. Please
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Serious question..how many ppl arguing on here actually saw Bird play during his prime!? Is hard to believe we have so many 45 year olds on here
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What do you even mean?
Let me school you a bit, lets see if I can dumb this down for you; Maybe even teach you a lesson.
Dirk Nowitski lead the Mavericks to a championship last year. He has arguably been considered amongst many as a top 10 player in the NBA for the past decade.
Larry Bird was shorter but better than him in almost every area of the game, both sides of the court. (Had to give you this comparison so you wouldn't think every elite player in the NBA are a bunch of LeBron's running around)
Understand how I just had to dumb it down for ya sonny? You get it now?
Now lets give you another task son, go back and look at the NBA draft (lets say last years, or pick and choose one within the past 5 years). Evaluate. Then tell me which draft Larry Bird wouldn't make it in. Hell, tell me a draft he wouldn't make it in the top 3 picks in.
Now tell ya pops what you learned.
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And BeanTown didn't even post the definitive Bird passing mix. His feel for the game was incomparable, really.