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post #211 of 310
But the scouting and schemes invested into team defense have improved, no?
post #212 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMatic View Post

But the scouting and schemes invested into team defense have improved, no?

It's hard to say with that one but here's what I know. In the last 15 years or so, teams have cut back drastically on scouting, specifically advanced scouting. Many clubs don't even have them on their staffs anymore but I don't know the number but perhaps technology helps counter that. If I had to venture a guess no scouting isn't better.

Schemes are about the same I think. Everyone's kinda rehashing what's already been done. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Tex Winter's Triangle offense was the last offensive innovation I can remember...Zones defenses were allowed into the NBA several years ago which was not allowed in Bird/Magic's era...
post #213 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

It's hard to say with that one but here's what I know. In the last 15 years or so, teams have cut back drastically on scouting, specifically advanced scouting. Many clubs don't even have them on their staffs anymore but I don't know the number but perhaps technology helps counter that. If I had to venture a guess no scouting isn't better.
Schemes are about the same I think. Everyone's kinda rehashing what's already been done. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Tex Winter's Triangle offense was the last offensive innovation I can remember...Zones defenses were allowed into the NBA several years ago which was not allowed in Bird/Magic's era...

So with NBA being bigger than ever, more money than ever in the sport, technology at its PEAK - you think teams have cut down scouting DRASTICALLY? Saying they cut down scouting is crazy enough but DRASTICALLY? Please explain what makes you say this. That statement is so outlandish I can't even respond to the rest.
post #214 of 310
Slightly worse than Steve Novak
post #215 of 310
A rich man's Brian Scalabrine.
post #216 of 310

A poor man's Lebron James

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post #217 of 310

A homeless man's Matt Bonner.

post #218 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrand15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

It's hard to say with that one but here's what I know. In the last 15 years or so, teams have cut back drastically on scouting, specifically advanced scouting. Many clubs don't even have them on their staffs anymore but I don't know the number but perhaps technology helps counter that. If I had to venture a guess no scouting isn't better.
Schemes are about the same I think. Everyone's kinda rehashing what's already been done. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Tex Winter's Triangle offense was the last offensive innovation I can remember...Zones defenses were allowed into the NBA several years ago which was not allowed in Bird/Magic's era...

So with NBA being bigger than ever, more money than ever in the sport, technology at its PEAK - you think teams have cut down scouting DRASTICALLY? Saying they cut down scouting is crazy enough but DRASTICALLY? Please explain what makes you say this. That statement is so outlandish I can't even respond to the rest.

I don't want to come across remotely arrogant like you did but what makes you think the NBA is bigger & better than ever? The only true revenue stream thats helping the league (not individual teams) to turn a profit is the TV money. Outside of major markets like NY, LA, Boston, teams are struggling to sell tickets.

The economy in case you haven't noticed is having a huge impact on the NBA. Prior to the lock out, it was said that 22 of the 30 teams were not turning a profit. Realistically, it was probably less than that but it did make teams cut drastically back in all areas like scouting.

Teams like the Grizzlies, the Nets, The Warriors, & even the Mavericks started cutting back in areas like advanced scouting back in 2009 with some even eliminating advanced scouting altogether & outsourcing it to companies like Snergy Sports or regional freelance scouts.
post #219 of 310
I think Larry would be fine offensively, maybe even better with the rule changes over the years. I think he would be a big defensive liability, He would have to depend on his defensive smarts even more, but in todays NBA there are a lot more Athletes than in his time.
post #220 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocomotiveCurt View Post

I think Larry would be fine offensively, maybe even better with the rule changes over the years. I think he would be a big defensive liability, He would have to depend on his defensive smarts even more, but in todays NBA there are a lot more Athletes than in his time.

With zone defenses in the NBA today, you don't have to be a good defender to be in the league. This is the reason why players like Jason Kapono & the dudes mentioned above can play for several years in the NBA.
post #221 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

With zone defenses in the NBA today, you don't have to be a good defender to be in the league. This is the reason why players like Jason Kapono & the dudes mentioned above can play for several years in the NBA.

good point.
post #222 of 310
Thank you...wink.gif
post #223 of 310
I think Bird would kill in this era.. He's the 2nd best player of all time behind LeBron in my humble opinion
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post #224 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

I don't want to come across remotely arrogant like you did but what makes you think the NBA is bigger & better than ever? The only true revenue stream thats helping the league (not individual teams) to turn a profit is the TV money. Outside of major markets like NY, LA, Boston, teams are struggling to sell tickets.

I think by bigger and better, people are speaking about talent and the visibility of the league. The NBA is experiencing a renaissance right now, and is at its highest point in 20 years.

Edit: add in the fact the NBA recognizes it's role as entertainment better than any other league, and has accepted (and even encouraged) new media more freely than any other league, and it all plays a role.
post #225 of 310
i cant take some of you dudes seriously; Bird is one of the ALL TIME GREATS. Yes he would dominate and be havoc for any team he played against
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post #226 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanacheezy View Post

i cant take some of you dudes seriously; Bird is one of the ALL TIME GREATS. Yes he would dominate and be havoc for any team he played against

So ****** what....that's irrelevant to the OP's question.

IMO he would still stand out, but wouldn't dominate.....ala Dirk
post #227 of 310

Yes he would, he'd be going through all of the physical training and roids all the new players are going through, so yes he would have the athletic ability.  

post #228 of 310
yall forget how competitive and ruthless larry legend was....


definitely killin.


The real questions is, how many cats would be on the receiving end of a Larry 2 piece.
post #229 of 310
You guys act like there weren't any athletes back in the 80s. Magic Johnson was a pretty damn good athlete, and that was his main rival. Then you got guys like Clyde and Dominique. And of course Jordan. Dominique is about as fricking athletic you can get. Then guys like Charles, Admiral, and the 80s Denver Nuggets.

No one mentioning that Larry was the best-passing forward of all-time. He was as complete offensively as any forward. He wasn't a slouch either defensively. He didn't use his athleticism to be a decent defender.

The East was no slouch in the 80s.
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post #230 of 310
Here are some of the players Bird regularly went up against Dr. J, Magic, Michael Cooper, James Worthy, Bryon Scott, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, Rodney McCray, Jerome Kersey, Cliff Robinson, & Dennis Rodman just to name a few...Think about these guys & let it sink in....
post #231 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

I don't want to come across remotely arrogant like you did but what makes you think the NBA is bigger & better than ever? The only true revenue stream thats helping the league (not individual teams) to turn a profit is the TV money. Outside of major markets like NY, LA, Boston, teams are struggling to sell tickets.
The economy in case you haven't noticed is having a huge impact on the NBA. Prior to the lock out, it was said that 22 of the 30 teams were not turning a profit. Realistically, it was probably less than that but it did make teams cut drastically back in all areas like scouting.
Teams like the Grizzlies, the Nets, The Warriors, & even the Mavericks started cutting back in areas like advanced scouting back in 2009 with some even eliminating advanced scouting altogether & outsourcing it to companies like Snergy Sports or regional freelance scouts.

I wasn't being arrogant, I just wanted an explanation.

Whether the teams are turning a profit or not, they are spending a TON of money and there is way more money in basketball than there used to be. Look at how much these teams are being sold for. Profit has nothing to do with how much money is going in and out of the sport. Add in the fact that the NBA is a global game now. Yes the NBA is making more money than ever (and clearly they are spending that money, so some teams aren't profiting) and is more popular than ever.

Now add in the fact that technology has come a long way since Bird's time, Synergy + those new tracking cameras -> means scouting is more efficient, easier, and gives you more data. Now throw in the fact that advanced stats are becoming more useful for basketball.

I still think the statement was outlandish.
post #232 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrand15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

I don't want to come across remotely arrogant like you did but what makes you think the NBA is bigger & better than ever? The only true revenue stream thats helping the league (not individual teams) to turn a profit is the TV money. Outside of major markets like NY, LA, Boston, teams are struggling to sell tickets.
The economy in case you haven't noticed is having a huge impact on the NBA. Prior to the lock out, it was said that 22 of the 30 teams were not turning a profit. Realistically, it was probably less than that but it did make teams cut drastically back in all areas like scouting.
Teams like the Grizzlies, the Nets, The Warriors, & even the Mavericks started cutting back in areas like advanced scouting back in 2009 with some even eliminating advanced scouting altogether & outsourcing it to companies like Snergy Sports or regional freelance scouts.

I wasn't being arrogant, I just wanted an explanation.

Whether the teams are turning a profit or not, they are spending a TON of money and there is way more money in basketball than there used to be. Look at how much these teams are being sold for. Profit has nothing to do with how much money is going in and out of the sport. Add in the fact that the NBA is a global game now. Yes the NBA is making more money than ever (and clearly they are spending that money, so some teams aren't profiting) and is more popular than ever.

Now add in the fact that technology has come a long way since Bird's time, Synergy + those new tracking cameras -> means scouting is more efficient, easier, and gives you more data. Now throw in the fact that advanced stats are becoming more useful for basketball.

I still think the statement was outlandish.

Take a look at the Orlando Magic. In an effort to become more lean & cut operating costs like a lot of companies, they laid off their long time asst. general manager & 6 scouts (6)...Teams are not spending "tons of cash" because they revenue isn't there. If you don't understand that & if you can't see the economy has had an effect on the NBA & they it operates, there's nothing more I can explain. Cheers. happy.gif
post #233 of 310
If you need specific examples about advanced scouting being downsized here's an article when it all started in 2009 from SI.com

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/08/21/scouting/index.html

& here's a article from the Orlando Sentinel from June 2012 referring to the Magic cutting staff.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-24/sports/os-orlando-magic-fire-twardzik-0625-20120624_1_twardzik-scout-rob-hennigan

I don't know how you come to think there's tons of cash to be spent, but it's just not so. Just Google search NBA team layoffs & you should see a myriad of articles showing teams are cutting back substantially. I sincerely hope you understand this a bit...
post #234 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAir21 View Post

You guys act like there weren't any athletes back in the 80s. Magic Johnson was a pretty damn good athlete, and that was his main rival. Then you got guys like Clyde and Dominique. And of course Jordan. Dominique is about as fricking athletic you can get. Then guys like Charles, Admiral, and the 80s Denver Nuggets.
No one mentioning that Larry was the best-passing forward of all-time. He was as complete offensively as any forward. He wasn't a slouch either defensively. He didn't use his athleticism to be a decent defender.
The East was no slouch in the 80s.

Yeah, they're basically saying none of those guys could be as good today either. roll.gif

post #235 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

Take a look at the Orlando Magic. In an effort to become more lean & cut operating costs like a lot of companies, they laid off their long time asst. general manager & 6 scouts (6)...Teams are not spending "tons of cash" because they revenue isn't there. If you don't understand that & if you can't see the economy has had an effect on the NBA & they it operates, there's nothing more I can explain. Cheers. happy.gif
Or perhaps new Magic GM Rob Hennigan wanted to start new and hire his own people and not keep the holdovers from the previous regime.
Edited by PMatic - 9/21/12 at 1:56pm
post #236 of 310
Larry bird would be super dirk. Not much else needs to be said
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post #237 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by psk2310 View Post

Take a look at the Orlando Magic. In an effort to become more lean & cut operating costs like a lot of companies, they laid off their long time asst. general manager & 6 scouts (6)...Teams are not spending "tons of cash" because they revenue isn't there. If you don't understand that & if you can't see the economy has had an effect on the NBA & they it operates, there's nothing more I can explain. Cheers. happy.gif
Or perhaps new Magic GM Rob Hennigan wanted to start new and hire his own people and not keep the holdovers from the previous regime.

He hired 3 new people, Donte Green, Wesley Johnson, & Rob Murphy which is down from 6. I think he hired 2 people for the asst gm position, but that's still less people than the original staff. I just wanted to illustrate how incorrect the thought that teams were spending "tons of cash" was. The Magic then laid off 20 more people back in December to cut operating costs but not sure what areas these folks worked in.

NBA headquarters alone laid off 11-15% of it's staff in NYC & Jersey to save $40-$50 mill in salaries alone prior to the lockout but didn't plan to hire any of those folks back post lock out.

I think a lot of people see the salaries being paid & think teams have cash to spend. They might on players but not for the overall operational side of the business.

I just wanted to make sure he understood that (hopefully).
Edited by psk2310 - 9/21/12 at 2:13pm
post #238 of 310
Larry Bird would murder these guys that play now....people play no defense now-a-days.....no hand check = 15 foot fade away's all day...
post #239 of 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAir21 View Post

You guys act like there weren't any athletes back in the 80s. Magic Johnson was a pretty damn good athlete, and that was his main rival. Then you got guys like Clyde and Dominique. And of course Jordan. Dominique is about as fricking athletic you can get. Then guys like Charles, Admiral, and the 80s Denver Nuggets.
No one mentioning that Larry was the best-passing forward of all-time. He was as complete offensively as any forward. He wasn't a slouch either defensively. He didn't use his athleticism to be a decent defender.
The East was no slouch in the 80s.
By what measure? Magic was an average athlete at best.
post #240 of 310
By Larry Bird measure. laugh.gif

No, he wasn't Pippen/'Nique/Drexler, but he wasn't Larry either.
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