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Vince Carter in the hall of fame??? - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Of course he's a hall of famer!!!! 30t6p3b.gif

He's a Maverick.

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post #32 of 57
No way. Only reason..ONLY reason there is any gray area is because it's the stupid basketball hall of fame and not the NBA Hall of Fame. Contributions to the game, blah blah blah. He is not the elite of elite and that's pretty much final.
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post #33 of 57
Hell no.
post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by calibeebee

Quote:
Originally Posted by quik1987

Why not, Dominique made it


Dominique averaged 25+ points per game for 10 consecutive seasons, including a 30.7 ppg season.  Dominique was a lock based on this alone.  I guess Vince has olympic gold, and rookie of the year under his belt, but I think he has no shot in hell unless he gets into broadcasting or something like thatsmiley: rollsmiley: rollsmiley: rollsmiley: roll

If only slam magazine had influence on who made it into the hall, Iverson, Tmac, and Vince would be first ballotsmiley: laugh


Dog, Iverson IS a first ballot HOFer though.
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post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Can't we just make like a ______ will be in the hall of fame thread and every few pages somebody dumb suggests a player that has no shot or stupidly brings up a player that hasn't been in the league nearly long enough and is just a prisoner of the moment?


Best thing said in this thread.
post #36 of 57
I used to love this dude laugh.gif

Still have his Raptors jersey.

His dunks were eek.gif second to none... but on the topic of a HOF'er... I don't know... I would say nah, but I wouldn't be surprised if he does make it.
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosiergunner

Nique gets no respect. If it wasn't for Jordan, he would be top 10 all time.


What about the other 9 guys?
post #38 of 57
No, he's not making the HOF. He's the one of the best dunkers we've seen to ever play the game. During his prime years, he could score with the best of them. Not to mention his clutchness is unmatched. But his career accoclades don't match up with a HOF career.
post #39 of 57
While I'm glad he put Toronto on the basketball map, I'd say no. And this is coming from someone who pretty much had a man-crush on him during Vinsanity: jerseys, posters, shoes, trading cards, magazines...my friends were worried.

Yeah he was a flashy dunker, to this day still the greatest. But he didn't do enough in his overall career to warrent HOF status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5am6oody72

More like the Hall of Lame.

smiley: laughsmiley: laughsmiley: laugh Can't believe how hard I laughed at that one, definitely in the "so bad it's good AWESOME" category
post #40 of 57
Nah, I don't think so
post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog345

No, he's not making the HOF. He's the one of the best dunkers we've seen to ever play the game. During his prime years, he could score with the best of them. Not to mention his clutchness is unmatched. But his career accoclades don't match up with a HOF career.

Nerd

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post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastsfinest

He'd probably quit before making his speech. 

smiley: roll

  
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post #43 of 57
NBA & ABA Active Leaders and Records for Hall of Fame Probability

Leaders and Records: Career ▪ Active

Click on the Player for career statistics and accomplishments.
Active players are listed in bold.
Members of the Hall of Fame are marked with an asterisk (*).

Minimum 400 NBA games played ▪ Explanation of Hall of Fame probability

Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. Kevin Garnett 0.9985
4. LeBron James 0.9941
5. Dwyane Wade 0.9917
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9882
7. Paul Pierce 0.9836
8. Jason Kidd 0.9613
9. Ray Allen 0.9382
10. Chris Paul 0.8408
11. Vince Carter 0.8135
12. Dwight Howard 0.7209
13. Tony Parker 0.7121
14. Carmelo Anthony 0.6898
15. Chris Bosh 0.6789
16. Pau Gasol 0.6356
17. Amare Stoudemire 0.6027
18. Tracy McGrady 0.5822
19. Steve Nash 0.5761
20. Grant Hill 0.4069
21. Shawn Marion 0.3368
22. Gilbert Arenas 0.2491
23. Deron Williams 0.2428
24. Chauncey Billups 0.2387
25. Joe Johnson 0.1883


81 Percent chance is not as bad as you guys in here are saying. Then again the sports knowledge in the S&T forum as a whole is pretty suspect. This forum is built on homerism and hate...you can rarely find an nice objective based discussion in here.
post #44 of 57

Hall of Fame Probability

Explanation ▪ Career Leaders ▪ Active Leaders

Introduction

What statistics or accomplishments have the Hall of Fame voters deemed to be most important? This question can be answered using a technique called logistic regression. The logistic regression model is a binary response model where the response is classified as either a "success" (in this case, being elected to the Hall of Fame) or a "failure" (not being elected to the Hall of Fame). One or more predictor variables are selected and the resulting model can be used to predict the probability of a success given certain values of the predictor(s).

Building the Model

For the Hall of Fame problem, I tried to use as many predictor variables as I could think of, but I did not use statistics that have not been kept for most of the NBA's history (e.g., steals). My player pool consisted of players who had played a minimum of 400 NBA games and had been eligible for at least one Hall of Fame election. After trying numerous models, my final model had seven predictor variables:

  1. height (in inches)
  2. last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
  3. NBA points per game
  4. NBA rebounds per game
  5. NBA assists per game
  6. NBA All-Star game selections
  7. NBA championships won

All of the predictors listed above were significant at the 0.05 level. Other than height, all of the predictors had positive coefficients. ABA statistics, honors, and championships were not important predictors of Hall of Fame status, which is why I only used NBA statistics in my final model. I don't like ignoring the ABA statistics, but that's what the voters have apparently done. Keep in mind that my goal was not to determine who <="" span=""> in the Hall of Fame, but rather who is likely to be in the Hall of Fame.

The table below gives the parameter estimates of the coefficients for each of the seven predictors:

height                          -0.1771
last season indicator            3.1498
NBA points per game              0.3433
NBA rebounds per game            0.4193
NBA assists per game             0.3327
NBA All-Star game selections     0.5626
NBA championships won            0.9151

Example

The parameter estimates given in the previous section can be used to obtain the predicted probability of Hall of Fame election for a particular player. I will go through an example using Jo Jo White. Find the values of the seven predictor variables for White, multiply them by the coefficients given in the table above, and find the sum of the products:

height                        -0.1771 * 75      = -13.2825
last season indicator          3.1498 *  0      =   0
NBA points per game            0.3433 * 17.2031 =   5.9058
NBA rebounds per game          0.4193 *  3.9964 =   1.6757
NBA assists per game           0.3327 *  4.8925 =   1.6277
NBA All-Star game selections   0.5626 *  7      =   3.9382
NBA championships won          0.9151 *  2      =   1.8302
----------------------------------------------------------
                                                    1.6951

To find the predicted probability of Hall of Fame election, do the following:

P(HoF election) = 1 / (1 + e**(-(1.6951)))
                = 0.845

Based on Jo Jo White's statistics and accomplishments, the probability that he has been elected to the Hall of Fame is 0.845.

Summary

Hall of Fame probabilities are presented for all players with a minimum of 400 NBA games played. Although it can be risky to make predictions for active players, you can think of these probabilities as answering the question "If this player retired today, what is the probability he would be elected to the Hall of Fame?". The model was built using a pool of 750 players. One method to assess classification accuracy is to compare the estimated Hall of Fame probability for the case to the actual result. Of the 750 players, 89 had been elected to the Hall of Fame and 661 had not. If the player's predicted probability of election was greater than or equal to 0.5, I predicted that he was in the Hall of Fame. Of the 89 players in the Hall of Fame, 74 were correctly classified (83.1%) and 15 were not (16.9%). Of the 661 players not in the Hall of Fame, 651 were correctly classified (98.5%) and 10 were not (1.5%). Overall, 725 of the 750 players (96.7%) were correctly classified by the model.

post #45 of 57
OP stop it 5 !
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

81 Percent chance is not as bad as you guys in here are saying. Then again the sports knowledge in the S&T forum as a whole is pretty suspect. This forum is built on homerism and hate...you can rarely find an nice objective based discussion in here.


Basketball reference should be used for stats only.

So you mean to tell me VC has a 10% better chance than TP and 23% better chance than Nash of getting in the HOF?  That formula makes rebounds and assists equal for all players regardless of position, that shouldn't be.  Plus, All-Star games?  All-Star game selections, the biggest popularity contest in the world?  Individual statistics thrown out the window completely, just a team statistic like championships calculated?  No college mention at all (it's the basketball HOF not NBA HOF).  I know you always like to dump on S&T's knowledge but that is a flawed percentage to use as the base of your argument.
  
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post #47 of 57
I think he will make the hall of fame. In his prime he was one of the best players at his position for several years, gold medalist, greatest dunker in NBA history, put a horrible franchise on the basketball map, etc. You dont NEED a championship or mvp to make the hall of fame.
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post #48 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Producer J

Quote:
Originally Posted by calibeebee

Quote:
Originally Posted by quik1987

Why not, Dominique made it


Dominique averaged 25+ points per game for 10 consecutive seasons, including a 30.7 ppg season.  Dominique was a lock based on this alone.  I guess Vince has olympic gold, and rookie of the year under his belt, but I think he has no shot in hell unless he gets into broadcasting or something like thatsmiley: rollsmiley: rollsmiley: rollsmiley: roll

If only slam magazine had influence on who made it into the hall, Iverson, Tmac, and Vince would be first ballotsmiley: laugh


Dog, Iverson IS a first ballot HOFer though.

I sure hope so, I really do.  I just know that stern hates his guts so maybe he could prevent him from getting there so easy.  But yeah I can't see a former MVP not gettting in


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post #49 of 57

That formula is a bit flawed, dontcha think? No player on that list is more glaring than Steve Nash: only a 58% chance for a two-time MVP, and below guys like CP and T-Mac? Ask 100 people if Nash gets in the Hall and we're gonna get a lot more than 59 votes (I realized that's not how the % works, but you get the idea).

I think we're done here.

post #50 of 57
Yeah VC doesn't have a 24% better chance of getting in to the HOF than Nash.
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post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Can't we just make like a ______ will be in the hall of fame thread and every few pages somebody dumb suggests a player that has no shot or stupidly brings up a player that hasn't been in the league nearly long enough and is just a prisoner of the moment?


Best thing said in this thread.
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post #52 of 57
Vincegif.gif



 

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post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

NBA & ABA Active Leaders and Records for Hall of Fame Probability

Leaders and Records: Career ▪ Active

Click on the Player for career statistics and accomplishments.
Active players are listed in bold.
Members of the Hall of Fame are marked with an asterisk (*).

Minimum 400 NBA games played ▪ Explanation of Hall of Fame probability

Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. Kevin Garnett 0.9985
4. LeBron James 0.9941
5. Dwyane Wade 0.9917
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9882
7. Paul Pierce 0.9836
8. Jason Kidd 0.9613
9. Ray Allen 0.9382
10. Chris Paul 0.8408
11. Vince Carter 0.8135
12. Dwight Howard 0.7209
13. Tony Parker 0.7121
14. Carmelo Anthony 0.6898
15. Chris Bosh 0.6789
16. Pau Gasol 0.6356
17. Amare Stoudemire 0.6027
18. Tracy McGrady 0.5822
19. Steve Nash 0.5761
20. Grant Hill 0.4069
21. Shawn Marion 0.3368
22. Gilbert Arenas 0.2491
23. Deron Williams 0.2428
24. Chauncey Billups 0.2387
25. Joe Johnson 0.1883

81 Percent chance is not as bad as you guys in here are saying. Then again the sports knowledge in the S&T forum as a whole is pretty suspect. This forum is built on homerism and hate...you can rarely find an nice objective based discussion in here.
Chauncey should be in the top 15 on that list. 30t6p3b.gif

post #54 of 57
J. Kidd!
post #55 of 57
I already dislike the HOF as it is.  If Vince gets in, I may just start campaigning for Kyle Korver to get in wit him. 

Vince got nothin but empty stats and highlight dunks.  He's done NOTHING else to be considered, unless you count ruining squads the same as rings, in that case he'd be on par with Jordan almost. 
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post #56 of 57
He didn't ruin any squads during his prime. As of the past few years he hasn't been great, but in his prime he made his teams much better. I'm sure you saw how bad the raptors and nets became after he left.
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post #57 of 57
If he buys a ticket, then sure.
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