Introducing the Microsoft Surface

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

Good points but its Microsoft.
Their presence in the home and the office faaaar outweighs Apple. 1 Billion Windows PCs vs a couple hundred million Macs. Developers will flock regardless. They're gonna have to develop programs for Windows home and office, which will bolster the Windows mobile space since the transition is virtually effortless.

And WindowsPhone is off to a better start as far as apps than Android was and look how far they have come.

M$ already has the best cloud integration and with SmartGlass for the Xbox and Windows8 coming in the Fall, things are going to get real interesting. 

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Microsoft has had plenty of failed products though, look no further than the Kin and Zune HD. The Zune IMO was a truly special product that was ahead of its time, but Microsoft didn't put in the effort to market its capabilities and it failed to penetrate the market. Likewise, why are people going to upgrade to Windows 8? There a billion Windows PC's in the world, but none of them are running Windows 8. Windows 7 is just starting to gain more market share than XP, so what incentive is there for users to upgrade to 8? Updates cost $99 for users, but not many are going to pay it. Sure, Windows Phone has gained more apps in a shorter time, but you have to take into account that there aren't many unique apps to the platform. Many of the apps are just rewrites of existing Android and iOS apps, and there's no real innovation going on in the marketplace. I'd wager that Google has cloud integration that parallels Microsoft's, and in some ways exceeds it. SmartGlass is the real game-changer, though. The biggest thing Microsoft has going for it currently is Xbox, which has become ubiquitous and has taken over the console market. If they can leverage that through advertising and provide products that highlight the strength of Xbox, Win8 has a strong chance to gain market share quickly, given its otherwise stellar performance.

I still can't dig the tiles. Too bulky, ugly and unnecessary for my liking.

Originally Posted by mp3911

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

Good points but its Microsoft.
Their presence in the home and the office faaaar outweighs Apple. 1 Billion Windows PCs vs a couple hundred million Macs. Developers will flock regardless. They're gonna have to develop programs for Windows home and office, which will bolster the Windows mobile space since the transition is virtually effortless.

And WindowsPhone is off to a better start as far as apps than Android was and look how far they have come.

M$ already has the best cloud integration and with SmartGlass for the Xbox and Windows8 coming in the Fall, things are going to get real interesting. 

Click to expand...

Microsoft has had plenty of failed products though, look no further than the Kin and Zune HD. The Zune IMO was a truly special product that was ahead of its time, but Microsoft didn't put in the effort to market its capabilities and it failed to penetrate the market. Likewise, why are people going to upgrade to Windows 8? There a billion Windows PC's in the world, but none of them are running Windows 8. Windows 7 is just starting to gain more market share than XP, so what incentive is there for users to upgrade to 8? Updates cost $99 for users, but not many are going to pay it. Sure, Windows Phone has gained more apps in a shorter time, but you have to take into account that there aren't many unique apps to the platform. Many of the apps are just rewrites of existing Android and iOS apps, and there's no real innovation going on in the marketplace. I'd wager that Google has cloud integration that parallels Microsoft's, and in some ways exceeds it. SmartGlass is the real game-changer, though. The biggest thing Microsoft has going for it currently is Xbox, which has become ubiquitous and has taken over the console market. If they can leverage that through advertising and provide products that highlight the strength of Xbox, Win8 has a strong chance to gain market share quickly, given its otherwise stellar performance.

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Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrades will be $14.99 for a year.

And Virtually every tech publication has said that MS has the best cloud solution of the big 3. More storage, better integration and much cheaper.

There really aren't any unique apps anymore though. Why make an app for only one platform when you can sell it across 3? Flipboard, Temple Run, Instagram etc... started off on iOS, now they are multiplatform. You're going to find the same thing happening for virtually all popular 3rd party apps.

I don't think this really hurts Apple, but watch out Google.

Some hands on impressions...

Here it is, Microsoft Surface, the all new, Microsoft-made tablet. We just had our hands on the sleek new device, and we must say — it does feel incredibly well designed.

Microsoft is only showing off the Windows RT version of the Surface, which means ARM CPU and a thinner, 9.3mm form factor. The design and build of the tablets the company has here feel very polished, with tight, clean lines. The device was also surprisingly light, barely feeling like it reached the full 1.5 pounds Microsoft is quoting. The 10.6-inch, 16:9 display also looked crystal clear at a variety of angles. We tried out the kickstand and had some trouble popping it out of the back of the tablet — but apparently there's a side cutaway which makes it easier to flip it out. Just as promised, it does close with a reassuring, expensive sounding click. The "VaporMg" finish on the case of the Surface feels like it'll be easy to grip, although we do wonder if the edges will feel just a little sharp with extended use.

Microsoft was eager to show both of keyboards it will be selling. The key travel on the physical keyboard is actually quite nice for the thinness on the Type Cover. As far as theTouch Cover goes, while we'd like to believe Microsoft when it says that the touch typing experience on the multicolored version will feel natural, we'll wait until we can spend more time with it to render judgment. The magnetic attachment is just as satisfying as the kickstand, with a strong magnetic click that can't be misaligned.

On the software side, reps are demoing much of what we've already seen in Windows 8, but the attractive housing does make us want to spend just a little bit more time playing around. If you were expecting any software surprises, we have yet to find them. As far as specs go, Microsoft is saying it will come in 32GB or 64GB versions, and we've also learned that it is using an Nvidia Tegra processor.

We're getting more detail and fleshing out as we go, so stay tuned for more (including video)!

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None of this might make sense until you touch one yourself, but it's our job to at least help you understand: the Surface really is as rigid and lightweight as Microsoft's executive team promised us it would be. The magnesium casing makes it wholly inflexible, and we mean that in the best possible way. As thin and light as it is (9.3mm / 1.49 pounds), there isn't a hint of give in the whole chassis. Were it not for fear of scratching that 10.6-inch display (HD on the RT model, Full HD 1080p on the Pro), we wouldn't have too many qualms about accidentally dropping it: the magnesium is as smooth and scratch-resistant as it is sturdy. Heck, even the display is coated in second-generation Gorilla Glass, so maybe we shouldn't handle this thing with kid gloves. Bonus: the whole package seems relatively impervious to fingerprints -- at least on the rear. And remember, this is after dozens of tech writers put their curious paws on it.

The kickstand, too, is as thin as they say (3mm thick on the RT model). It folds out in a controlled, reassuring motion; we're not worried about this snapping off. It also seems like it'll take a little more than a breath of air to make the whole thing knock over. Our first thought was that the stand looks like the fold-out back to a frame, but unlike a frame, which might fall face-down on your shelf, the tablet stayed put, even after rigorous handling from all the press here.

Take a tour around the device and you'll see a mix of ports -- we use the word "mix" deliberately because it's a medley of sockets you'd expect to find on either an ARM-based tablet and a full x86 one. On team ARM, you've got a microSD slot, befitting the sort of low-powered consumer tablet you're used to. But, unlike most Android tabs you've seen (much less the iPad), it also has a USB 2.0 port and HDMI output. Inside, you'll get either 32GB or 64GB of built-in storage, along with a 31.5Wh battery, though that last spec is fairly meaningless until Microsoft clarifies the rated battery life.
[h5]Display[/h5]
Right now, Microsoft reps are refusing to clarify the resolution for either the RT or Pro Surface tablets. For now, then, suffice to say the 16:9 display is indeed crisp, but you know what's even more impressive? The viewing angles. Try following along with a demo, standing off to the side while someone else has his turn taking photos from dead-center. Turns out, it's no so hard. Factor in that kickstand and you've got the ingredients for some easy movie watching between friends.
[h5]Performance[/h5]
As for performance, we'll be honest: tech press were treated to about two minutes at each of several stations, some of which demoed design, and not so much the power that lies inside that thin frame. (Microsoft has only said that the ARM chip is made by NVIDIA. No one ever said it's a Tegra 3 SoC, but that is naturally our best bet.) Still, in our brief hands-on the optically bonded screen was incredibly responsive to our various taps and swipes. Fast, slick and very, very promising. Now if only we could see the Core i5-powered Pro model in action. As for pen input, it's very possible, including PDF mark-ups and all, but we didn't get to see that demoed today. Sorry, Charlies.
[h5]Touch Cover and Type Cover keyboards[/h5]
Unfortunately, we didn't get to see a working demo of the keyboards. As in, we weren't permitted to type sample sentences and feel what it's like to hammer out characters on a flat keyboard, or on keys that have just 1.5mm of travel. It's a shame, because what makes both keyboards special is that they have built-in accelerometers that allow the keyboard to tell which key you're hitting, how fast and how forcefully. An intriguing idea if ever there was one, but difficult to weigh in on if all you're allowed to do is peck at a lifeless demo model.

Still, they were on display in the demo area and we did get to, you know, put our fingers on them. Starting with the flat one (that'd be the Touch Cover), the keys have a slightly scratchy surface that seems like it would make one's fingers feel just a bit more anchored. Still, we're curious about the learning curve for a keyboard that's so... what's the opposite of "tactile?" What else can we say having not been allowed to actually type on a working model? Oh yes, it will be available in five colors.

Interestingly, with the Type Cover, the cushier of the two keyboards, it's still difficult at first blush to tell one key from another if you're not looking down at them. Each manufacturer has a different way of conserving space when building a set of keys for a 10-inch device, and it's clear that Microsoft decided using a chiclet layout would have been inefficient: the keys are packed fairly tightly, with the flat keycaps almost blending into one another.

Based on remarks by Steve Ballmer and others during the presentation, it sounds like a lot of thought went into the two keyboards, so we wouldn't be surprised if a large focus group of touch typists were able to prove Redmond's engineers right. But having played with both, we don't imagine this being like settling in with a new laptop or Transformer-style dock. You might have to re-learn how to type (or at least teach your brain to fuhgeddaboutit and trust your fingers to land where they're supposed to.)
[h5]Wrap-up[/h5]
It's impossible to weigh in on Surface when we only handled one of the two tablets, and when each hands-on opportunity amounted to a Supermarket Sweep-style tour of various demo areas. Still, even after some brief handling, we feel impressed, almost sobered by what Microsoft's managed to produce after vowing to take the Windows 8 hardware-software package into its own hands. Surface for Windows RT is well-made, polished, durable and carefully engineered. And yes, that's sobering news: Microsoft's own OEM partners, everyone from ASUS to Acer to HP, should feel a tinge of defensiveness. If Redmond's mission until now has been to showcase all the possible form factors for Windows 8, it may have just taken a step in the opposite direction by upstaging everybody else.

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Pretty nice. Would this be able to catch a virus?

Originally Posted by cruzair13

still gonna have a virus.

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Originally Posted by goldenchild9

For everyone that has been living under a a rock...

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I'm sold.
Windows 8 tab > iPad. Bar none. 

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrades will be $14.99 for a year.

And Virtually every tech publication has said that MS has the best cloud solution of the big 3. More storage, better integration and much cheaper.

There really aren't any unique apps anymore though. Why make an app for only one platform when you can sell it across 3? Flipboard, Temple Run, Instagram etc... started off on iOS, now they are multiplatform. You're going to find the same thing happening for virtually all popular 3rd party apps.

Click to expand...

Upgrades will be $15 for people who bought a PC from June 2, 2012. That's a pretty tiny segment of the market, and doesn't address the big businesses that make Microsoft the most money. I assume you're talking about Skydrive when you're referring to cloud storage: Google Drive is $10 more annually for 100 GB of storage, the highest amount Microsoft offers. Drive also offers an Android client, while Microsoft instead offers a WP client. Features are basically at parity, but Google gives you the option of up to 16 TB of cloud storage, along with full Android integration. You can also upload files up to 10 GB large on Drive, while you're limited to 2 GB on Skydrive. There are still unique apps; I use Reeder, Tweetbot, Flipboard, and Instapaper religiously on my iDevices, and only of two of those are on Android(with one in beta form while the other lacks features compared to its iOS alternative) while none have made it to WP7. iOS users tend to buy more apps, so developers continue to develop for iOS first to gain the biggest profits, although that's starting to change with the emergence of high-end Android devices that are making iOS users switch. The flagship WP7 is the Lumia 900, which has a beautiful external design but fails to beat the competition in every other category. As long as that is the case, consumers, and in turn developers, will continue to regard WP as a flawed platform.

Originally Posted by Essential1

Microsoft will always be garbage.. And I have only personally owned Microsoft computers/laptops.

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word?
I didn't know microsoft made desktops & laptops. 

I've never understood the fascination with labeling everything "iPhone/iPad" killer.  Sure, spec-wise it may blow the iPad out of the water but we all know by now that specs don't mean a damn thing in the real world.  What matters is sales because at the end of the day, all of these companies are in the business of making money.  
Hopefully Microsoft isn't as clueless as OP and won't market this as an iPad killer.  In doing that, they would have already lost.  

If a product is great, it will stand by itself without having to compare it to the competition, IMO.  And yes, this does look dope.  Very dope.  But enough of the R.I.P. iPad stuff--it isn't going anywhere.  

How did the Zune work out?

All that muscle with no App in there Market Place

R.I.P iPad? word?

I like what I see so far. Not sure why everyone is burying Microsoft/Windows. Apple hasn't always been successful either. I don't think it's a disruptive product but could stand as a worthy competitor to the iPad which is more than I can say for most tablets out right now. The keyboard seems amazing.

Originally Posted by mp3911

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

Windows 7 to Windows 8 upgrades will be $14.99 for a year.

And Virtually every tech publication has said that MS has the best cloud solution of the big 3. More storage, better integration and much cheaper.

There really aren't any unique apps anymore though. Why make an app for only one platform when you can sell it across 3? Flipboard, Temple Run, Instagram etc... started off on iOS, now they are multiplatform. You're going to find the same thing happening for virtually all popular 3rd party apps.

Click to expand...

Upgrades will be $15 for people who bought a PC from June 2, 2012. That's a pretty tiny segment of the market, and doesn't address the big businesses that make Microsoft the most money. I assume you're talking about Skydrive when you're referring to cloud storage: Google Drive is $10 more annually for 100 GB of storage, the highest amount Microsoft offers. Drive also offers an Android client, while Microsoft instead offers a WP client. Features are basically at parity, but Google gives you the option of up to 16 TB of cloud storage, along with full Android integration. You can also upload files up to 10 GB large on Drive, while you're limited to 2 GB on Skydrive. There are still unique apps; I use Reeder, Tweetbot, Flipboard, and Instapaper religiously on my iDevices, and only of two of those are on Android(with one in beta form while the other lacks features compared to its iOS alternative) while none have made it to WP7. iOS users tend to buy more apps, so developers continue to develop for iOS first to gain the biggest profits, although that's starting to change with the emergence of high-end Android devices that are making iOS users switch. The flagship WP7 is the Lumia 900, which has a beautiful external design but fails to beat the competition in every other category. As long as that is the case, consumers, and in turn developers, will continue to regard WP as a flawed platform.

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As far as the cloud computing...just read the reviews. Haven't found one site that hasn't put Skydrive on top when compared against Apple's and Google's alternatives.
As far as the upgrade thats pretty good IMO. Not sure if you know or realize but Windows 8 essentially already has Windows 7 baked in. You can switch between the Metro Touch UI and the standard Windows 7 interface on the home versions. So if you're happy with Win 7 and the standard PC setup, like most people are, no need to upgrade....but if you want to get down with the touch or the mobile movement, you have to buy a new device anyway, in which case Windows 8 will be preloaded, just like Windows always has been. Basically this is Microsoft's way of future-proofing their ecosystem. More monitors will soon be touchscreen capable and kinect is about to invade home pcs and come standard with the new Xbox...when this happens Windows 8 will become the standard. Touch and gesture interaction will soon have it place at home and in the office and Microsoft is the only company really geared up for that change.

You're being too "iCentric" about apps man. There are equal or better alternatives to everything the iPhone has for Android. Pocket/Evernote/The new Yahoo App = Instapaper. Flipboard is already on Android. Don't even know what Reeder or Tweetbot is but that should just tell you that no one is really missing it on Android.

And WindowsPhone is essentially just a stopgap until Windows8 drops. Win8 has all the functionality of iOS/Android plus much more. Thats when the race really begins. There is no such thing as a flawed platform on this level. Developers aren't as emotional as consumers. 

Windows8 devices will be sold and the same apps will end up on 3 platforms instead of 2.

 Doesn't surprise me.

I went to a pretty prominant engineering school so there's always been sort of a "recruiting battle" going on between MS, Apple, Google, Facebook etc. to get our best students for their internships and entry level positions and such.  I will say that with such a broad market presence (Gaming, Mobile, Desktop) and a development tool like Visual Studio which Apple and Google simply cannot compete with, a good portion of the more talented guys I've been around in CS and CE end up going for Microsoft over the other guys.  This is only in the last couple of years though.

It's foolish to sleep on MS.

RIP iPad?


how did the windows phone workout?

Originally Posted by Elpablo21

I dont even understand why people are so concerned about it killing the ipad or not killing it?

As if you cant enjoy products coming from more than one company

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Exactly 
I got an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Windows 7 laptop, and Xbox 360.  Enjoy all the products.  

I haven't bought a new PC since 09 with Windows 7 though so I could see this being my next PC.  I'd get the Windows 8 Pro tablet and also install OS X Mountain Lion as a dual boot on it to also get the iOS features to sync with my iPhone/iPad.  

And as far as Skydrive vs Google Drive.  I subscribe to both but recently reading articles about the difference in privacy policies regarding Google Drive and Skydrive makes me favor Skydrive a lot more. 

Originally Posted by uny

Originally Posted by Essential1

Microsoft will always be garbage.. And I have only personally owned Microsoft computers/laptops.

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word?
I didn't know microsoft made desktops & laptops. 

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fareal... i thought they just made software...

Originally Posted by goldenchild9

As far as the cloud computing...just read the reviews. Haven't found one site that hasn't put Skydrive on top when compared against Apple's and Google's alternatives.
As far as the upgrade thats pretty good IMO. Not sure if you know or realize but Windows 8 essentially already has Windows 7 baked in. You can switch between the Metro Touch UI and the standard Windows 7 interface on the home versions. So if you're happy with Win 7 and the standard PC setup, like most people are, no need to upgrade....but if you want to get down with the touch or the mobile movement, you have to buy a new device anyway, in which case Windows 8 will be preloaded, just like Windows always has been. Basically this is Microsoft's way of future-proofing their ecosystem. More monitors will soon be touchscreen capable and kinect is about to invade home pcs and come standard with the new Xbox...when this happens Windows 8 will become the standard. Touch and gesture interaction will soon have it place at home and in the office and Microsoft is the only company really geared up for that change.

You're being too "iCentric" about apps man. There are equal or better alternatives to everything the iPhone has for Android. Pocket/Evernote/The new Yahoo App = Instapaper. Flipboard is already on Android. Don't even know what Reeder or Tweetbot is but that should just tell you that no one is really missing it on Android.

And WindowsPhone is essentially just a stopgap until Windows8 drops. Win8 has all the functionality of iOS/Android plus much more. Thats when the race really begins. There is no such thing as a flawed platform on this level. Developers aren't as emotional as consumers. 

Windows8 devices will be sold and the same apps will end up on 3 platforms instead of 2.

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I've been reading the reviews and most of them say that Google Drive is as good, if not better than Skydrive.

Windows 8 does have the desktop interface, but on a tablet device, it's a little clunky switching from Metro to desktop, and on a desktop, it's clunky the other way around. If a company is used to the traditional Windows desktop experience, it'll be jarring to switch over to a touch-optimized UI, which doesn't work well with mouse and keyboard. For example, to close an app on Win8, you have to drag from the top of the screen to the bottom. On a tablet, that's extremely fluid and works really well, but when using a mouse and keyboard, it's a pain in the !#$. I installed the release preview on a spare machine I have laying around and it's awful to use. I'm aware that you can use the traditional desktop experience, but the first screen Microsoft gives you when you boot up on any device is the Metro UI, so I assume they expect you to use that too.

You're saying that all new touch devices will be preloaded with Win8, but who's going to buy a third party device when they can buy a device straight from Microsoft? Android has enough traction in the market to allow OEM's to switch over, so Microsoft could be shooting themselves in the foot by endangering their relationships with their manufacturers. I don't think touchscreen monitors are that great, it gets tiring constantly raising your arm to touch a monitor that's an arm's length away from you. Kinect is cool, but requires some serious technology for it to work. In order to put it on desktops and laptops, you'd have to either significantly cut down on the processing power or find a magic way to fit it into the the monitor itself. It works well in the living room because you are far enough away from it so that it can accurately track your movements, but might now work as well in the office or when the sensor is too close to you.

The whole point of my apps argument was to show that innovation is happening first on iOS, and then spreading to Android, while WP7 is left in the dark. A quick, extremely relevant example is Paper by FiftyThree, which leverages the iPad's hardware to create a unique drawing experience that is nowhere to be found on competing devices. I think this same situation will occur with Win8, with developers continuing to develop for iOS and Android while Win8 has a few titles that Microsoft paid big money for. I haven't seen an app release on all platforms at once; the most relevant thing I can think of is Pocket releasing for Android and iOS at the same thing, and that's considered a pretty big achievement for the Android community since the devs kept the same functionality but modified their UI to suit their respective OS's.

WP7's the stopgap until Win8/WP8? How are they going to change their strategy to capture developers and consumers? WP7 is continuing to flounder, so why should developers care about writing brand new apps specifically tailored to Win8? There's no current incentive to do so; Android and iOS are steadily growing in marketshare, while Windows is falling due to Windows Mobile devices being abandoned.

Microsoft needs to find a way to use its vast resources to recruit consumers and developers to their platform if they every wish to make Surface, Win8, and WP8 commercially successful products. They established their monopoly through predatory practices in the 90's, and as the tech industry evolves, their control of the market has continued to dwindle. In order to restore their former glory, they need to focus on attracting consumers and developers to their products ethically; by making a good product.

windows is terrible tho

right now, the only way apple will lose is if they *$*# up themselves. apple is in the world's best position right now. they got people so wrapped up in its marketing that they'll buy whatever they release. all they gotta do is present it in the same format and people will eat it up.

if any company wants to take apple out, they need to do to the ipad what the word processor did to the typewriter. otherwise, apple will stay powerful and relevant for as long as they don't *$*# up on their own. it's as simple as that.

rival companies can't be releasing tablets. if they wanna take out the ipad, they need to be releasing some really revolutionary products.

Originally Posted by girlslovewaffles

rival companies can't be releasing tablets. if they wanna take out the ipad, they need to be releasing some really revolutionary products.

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I hope you know that there were tablets before the ipad, they just weren't that great. You need Innovation not "revolutionary" when it comes to technology. The ipad will have its marketshare but that doesn't mean every company will bow down to it. They will find ways to create their own innovative products by differentiating from the ipad is. Scaling different form factors that tailors to certain users that the ipad does not have. Competition is good it creates innovation when it comes to technology, if the ipad was the only thing out there people hate it even more cause their's only allowed one option. People like options.

Originally Posted by 5am6oody72

I really wish they would quit using dubstep in every $%!*#$* commercial.

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This.
And in order for this to compete with the iPad, Microsoft has to step it's app game up. The amount of Apps on Windows compared to iOS and Android is just pitiful.