NFL Discussion Thread - Hall of Fame Game: August 3rd

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Not fair to throw Freeman in the fire without really having a full playbook.

But what would it say if they started Ponder then went to Freeman next week?

Peterson needs to be traded wasting his prime with this mess at quarterback.

Maybe Vikings can trade for Bradford.
 
notice you didn't mention one openly got caught cheating, recording other teams practices and stealing their signals...*shrugs*
 
DoItAllPaul said:
Not fair to throw Freeman in the fire without really having a full playbook.

But what would it say if they started Ponder then went to Freeman next week?

Peterson needs to be traded wasting his prime with this mess at quarterback.

Maybe Vikings can trade for Bradford.
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It would say that each week they're putting the team in the best position to win. If Freeman started then they went to Ponder and back to Freeman next week then it's the same answer. We know the the fate of Ponder and we know Freeman needs to get up to speed, but that doesn't mean run Freeman into the ground with the same 10 pass plays when Ponder can at least give the offense some more variety.
 
651akathePaul said:
 
Maximus Meridius said:
If they are going with Freeman I don't think they shoulda pulled him. You gotta let him work through it. My Giants have been garbage this year, I don't think anybody thought he would play that bad against a winless team. I think they wanted to use last night to get him ready for Green Bay.
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Work through what though? They couldn't make adjustments because he hasn't grasped enough of the offense. It was all a disaster. Ponder gave them a better chance to win that game. The future will take care of itself, but that doesn't mean you have to throw away the present.. To win that game, they had to pull Freeman.

A win last night and they're 2-4. Not nearly the end of the world when both the Bears and Lions are 4-3.
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not knowing the offense didn't make him have TWENTY overthrows last night
 
651akathePaul said:
Maximus Meridius said:
If they are going with Freeman I don't think they shoulda pulled him. You gotta let him work through it. My Giants have been garbage this year, I don't think anybody thought he would play that bad against a winless team. I think they wanted to use last night to get him ready for Green Bay.
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Work through what though? They couldn't make adjustments because he hasn't grasped enough of the offense. It was all a disaster. Ponder gave them a better chance to win that game. The future will take care of itself, but that doesn't mean you have to throw away the present.. To win that game, they had to pull Freeman.

A win last night and they're 2-4. Not nearly the end of the world when both the Bears and Lions are 4-3.
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To me it looks like they've already considered this season a wrap. That team is in quicksand. At this point I wouldn't eem be surprised if AP gets traded. Blasphemous, I know.
 
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:lol: JPZ was so offended that people were predicting a losing record this season.
 
ReggieKILLER said:
651akathePaul said:
 
Maximus Meridius said:
If they are going with Freeman I don't think they shoulda pulled him. You gotta let him work through it. My Giants have been garbage this year, I don't think anybody thought he would play that bad against a winless team. I think they wanted to use last night to get him ready for Green Bay.
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Work through what though? They couldn't make adjustments because he hasn't grasped enough of the offense. It was all a disaster. Ponder gave them a better chance to win that game. The future will take care of itself, but that doesn't mean you have to throw away the present.. To win that game, they had to pull Freeman.


A win last night and they're 2-4. Not nearly the end of the world when both the Bears and Lions are 4-3.
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not knowing the offense didn't make him have TWENTY overthrows last night
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So, is that more reason to continue playing him?

And while his overthrows didn't have much to do with schematic adjustments, it was clear he was overwhelmed. Throwing behind receivers who already broke, overthrowing receivers cut the route to get open where Freeman threw it to a differenst spot. It's all part not being prepared.

DB's started to jump routes because of the predictability of the offense. Hell, I did it from the couch, so you know the defense was ready.
 
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651akathePaul said:
I felt that game was well within reach into the second half and even though Ponder isn't the answer, Freeman clearly wasn't ready. See if something gets sparked with Ponder and put Freeman in again when he's more prepared. I don't think an entire season should be thrown away just because they can't find a definitive answer to their QB conundrum. Ya know? At this point the message is sent to the players that winning isn't the priority. That's toxic.
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When they committed $2 million dollars to Josh Freeman, they moreso committed time to Josh Freeman regardless of play. You take him out and put in Ponder... okay that does nothing. He plays awful? Oh, we had that with Freeman. He plays well? Oh, unnecessary QB controversy that creates unneeded drama for a team already dealing with the drama of being 1-5.

In the minds of the decision makers, the entire season was already a definitive wash at 1-4, and numbers sort of exemplify that. I see what you mean about it being toxic to basically say "it's okay to be bad for the timebeing" and the implications that message could send, but how quick does that toxicity level go down if whatever rookie QB they take in the Top 3 goes OFF early in his rookie year, ala RGIII or Andrew Luck. And to be honest, I don't ******g care about any "right thing to do, and wrong thing to do" dilemmas if it comes at the cost of being one pick away from drafting the QB we wanted. If it's about making Jared Allen and other vets mad, do we care? Is Jared Allen going to be on the team next year as much as we enjoy watching him play? This is a business.

Feelings like that can be quickly forgotten if they nail that pick. If the Vikings secure a franchise quarterback for the foreseeable 10-15 years solely because of what-could-prove-to-be-a-crucial-tiebreaking-loss to the similar in record New York Giants in a game that won't inspire any sort of legitimate positivity due to the gaping holes we have and the specific hole we already dug, then it is the correct move.

I learned to not care about the implications of giving up when the Vikings won a meaniningless game (in which AP tore his ACL) against Washington at FedEx Field in 2011... which pretty much cost them Andrew Luck.

Eh, I'd rather send a revolving door of 52 players the "correct" message.

Get a quarterback. At any cost.
 
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If you go back though it's not like I put us on a winning year, I said 7-9 was possible. Not wayyyy off :lol: but yeah :lol:
 
JPZx said:
651akathePaul said:
I felt that game was well within reach into the second half and even though Ponder isn't the answer, Freeman clearly wasn't ready. See if something gets sparked with Ponder and put Freeman in again when he's more prepared. I don't think an entire season should be thrown away just because they can't find a definitive answer to their QB conundrum. Ya know? At this point the message is sent to the players that winning isn't the priority. That's toxic.
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When they committed $2 million dollars to Josh Freeman, they moreso committed time to Josh Freeman regardless of play. You take him out and put in Ponder... okay that does nothing. He plays awful? Oh, we had that with Freeman. He plays well? Oh, unnecessary QB controversy that creates unneeded drama for a team already dealing with the drama of being 1-5.

In the minds of the decision makers, the entire season was already a definitive wash at 1-4, and numbers sort of exemplify that. I see what you mean about it being toxic to basically say "it's okay to be bad for the timebeing" and the implications that message could send, but how quick does that toxicity level go down if whatever rookie QB they take in the Top 3 goes OFF early in his rookie year, ala RGIII or Andrew Luck. And to be honest, I don't ******g care about any "right thing to do, and wrong thing to do" dilemmas if it comes at the cost of being one pick away from drafting the QB we wanted. If it's about making Jared Allen and other vets mad, do we care? Is Jared Allen going to be on the team next year as much as we enjoy watching him play? This is a business.

Feelings like that can be quickly forgotten if they nail that pick. If the Vikings secure a franchise quarterback for the foreseeable 10-15 years solely because of what-could-prove-to-be-a-crucial-tiebreaking-loss to the similar in record New York Giants in a game that won't inspire any sort of legitimate positivity due to the gaping holes we have and the specific hole we already dug, then it is the correct move.

I learned to not care about the implications of giving up when the Vikings won a meaniningless game (in which AP tore his ACL) against the ******** at FedEx Field in 2011... which pretty much cost them Andrew Luck.

Get a quarterback. At any cost.
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1-4 wouldn't be a wash of a season to me and it's silly that they would think that. Very near-sighted, if you will. This was Spielman's play. He was the one with the investment. It was a panic decision. That entire first paragraph is the exact way decision-makers get fired.

There doesn't have to be drama with the team, that's for the media. There's no drama whether Ponder played in that game or not...Moving forward, this team is Josh's, but he just wasn't ready. Period.

Besides, the assumption of this line of thinking is that in the end they nail their first round pick. These are the same knuckleheads that have been horribly inept at the evaluating the QB to begin with. I just don't see a problem with making a decision you feel is right and figure the next step out later. Funny things can happen sports when you hit your groove. This was just all panic and mismanaged.

It's all about an orgnizations culture. Giving up and hoping to land a star is not the route to go, in my opinion.
 
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I thought they were having secondary issues or w/e. Don't really know which is why im askjng
 
Yep. Secondary is horrible. Harrison Smith is a playmaker for them, but he's out. Xavier is good too, but he's still learning and they only play him in Nickel packages and strictly on one side of the field for some reason.

LB's is eh. Greenway is aging and Erin isn't really a true MLB, but they're holding it together decently, I suppose. That secondary is just very very poor.
 
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DoItAllPaul said:
Maybe Vikings can trade for Bradford.
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LOLWUT. He's probably played his last down in a Rams uni.

Percival sighting around 30 minutes ago  at the VMAC- 

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JPZx said:
I'm really not trying to discriminate against a bitter rival... but objectively the Packers/Patriots in the 2000s and McCarthy/Belichick eras aren't alike.

One has been to 5 Super Bowls in the last 12 years, the other has been to 1 in the last 17.

One has the QB guaranteeing guys don't take steroids when they do and had the most publicized breakup with a QB ever (I mean, really... we even were made aware that they had pizza to eat in their "productive" meeting days before the trade to New York). The other team cuts guys with simplicity and even has boisterous guys like Chad Johnson not talking **** after clearly not being wanted back.

I mean yeah they both have great QBs, but that could apply to the Saints and Broncos then. As much as I praise Aaron Rodgers he needs to get more hardware before being dubbed "similar" to TB12/Captain Cool. Unfortunately a players legacy can be defined by the players a GM puts around him. As of today Ted Thompson is failing to fall on the positive side of that definition.
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just because the Packers haven't had as many Superbowl appearances/wins as the Pats doesn't negate the similarities in which they run an organization or the fact that they've still been succesful. It's very hard to win the Superbowl. Also you can't say the McCarthy Era and then say they've made it to 1 Superbowl in the last 17 years when the McCarthy era started in 2006. An era where he has only failed to reach the playoffs twice, which was 2006 his very first year as the coach, (made the NFCC the next) and 2008 Aaron Rodgers first year starting (pretty reasonable). What's funny is the more I type this the more random similarities I'm thinking of. Both Belichick and McCarthy went from potential Hall of Fame QB to another. Both Belichick and McCarthy came close to having an undefeated season with the NY Giants ending it, albeit in a different fashion. Actually the Giants have crushed both Belichick and McCarthys Superbowl hopes twice. :rofl: 2007,2011 for the Packers, 2009,2011 for the Patriots. Both have cut players with simplicity, not just the Pats. Chad Johnson? We cut ******g Brett Favre :lol: Woodson came here because no one wanted him. He was arrogant, voiced his displeasure, grew to love the place, then we cut him. We said buh bye to Greg Jennings like the Pats did to Welker. And spy gate/ having a murderer on your team is just as bad, definitely worse, than a publicized break with a QB, or our QB being friends with a steroid user. Actually the spy gate controversey and our parting ways with Favre both happened in 2007 and the Hernandez/Rodgers Braun fiasco both happened this year :lol: I never said they don't have to deal with media, every team has to, but they both know how to handle it from letting it become a circus in the locker room and continue to win.

This is all far from important but don't say "objectively" and only discredit the Packers. I mean both their locations have 2....and both of their names even start with ..... :rofl:
 
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Belicheck has had a decade long run of unusual success. McCarthy isn't even close to that yet.
 
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