Kobe/Shaq Trade Revisited

illwill24

illwill24

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OK so it's about five years since Shaq got traded to Miami, after a tumultuous seven years on the Lakers.

So many people said that the Laker's front office, and Kobe himself, were guilty of getting rid of one of the greatest big men of all time for a youngerKobe Bryant. They got so much heat for that move, but stuck to their guns, and next season drafted an unproven 17-year-old from high school named AndrewBynum.

Do you STILL think the Lakers made a dumb move?

As the Lakers hold the top position in the Pacific conference over Phoenix, and Miami holds (one of) the worst record(s) in the league, it seems the Lakerswere right.

Shaq hasn't played a full 82-game season since Del Harris days, and Kobe is leading a young Laker team to the NBA's elite. I don't think JerryBuss is as dumb as we take him to be, and in hindsight, moving Shaq seems to have helped the Laker organization more than it hurt it.

Soooo.........Kobe haters where are you?
 
after a tumultuous seven years on the Lakers.
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Do you STILL think the Lakers made a dumb move?
the lakers are doing fine now, but shaq had gotten another championship..so i think in the end it worked out for both sides...immediate effectsmade it look dumb on the lakers part but as time progresses it seems like it was good for l.a. since shaq is getting old and nearing the end of his career. thetrade you should be talking about, is the one that gave caron butler away for kwame brown
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Hindsight is always 20/20. Bottom line is Shaq and the Heat got at least the one ring. Until the Lakers get one of their own with Bynum, Kobe and or Odom onthe team, so far the Heat won the deal. The only thing the Lakers have going for them so far is they are in a better situation as far as depth, salaries, andstill being a competitive team for the next couple seasons. But this game is about rings. Shaq 1, Kobe 0.
 
Originally Posted by CP1708

Hindsight is always 20/20. Bottom line is Shaq and the Heat got at least the one ring. Until the Lakers get one of their own with Bynum, Kobe and or Odom on the team, so far the Heat won the deal. The only thing the Lakers have going for them so far is they are in a better situation as far as depth, salaries, and still being a competitive team for the next couple seasons. But this game is about rings. Shaq 1, Kobe 0.
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I don't think you can measure success simply in terms of championships.. at least, a front office wouldn't. And you probably can't measureit's full impact yet either, for either squad.
 
Amen to that bro...... I def. agree time has proven this decision to be the right one, only thing that bothers me is the title Miami won with Shaq, given thislittle detail, the Lakers' decision isn't fully justified until we prove we can win again, that's what its all about, Miami, even in short termsgot the better end of the bargain given they won a Championship. I know they suck now, and probably will until the rebuild again but shaq leaving and winningalmost instantly got me doubting what we had done..... specially with guys like Udonis Haslem, Jason Williams and Antoine Walker. Don't get me wrong theyare good and got the job done but i thought we had a better team in LA. That's just my 2 cents....
 
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@ anyone who thinks the lakers got the better deal.. The heat have a ring, the lakers have 1st round exits
 
And who has a better chance at getting a ring in the future?
I've been wanting to bring this up...

with the way the Heat are going, they can easily end up with Beasley or at worst, Jordan.

To go with Wade

and boom, they can be right back...
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We talkin about RIGHT NOW homie.

Fantasies are just that. Fantasies.
ok, right now we are #1 seed in the west, the Heat are in last in the East. Yeah the Heat won a questionable championship two years ago, but nowthey are WORSE than the damn Knicks. And if what I remember is right, the Lakers are like the 3rd or 4th youngest team in the league. Sure the Heat will geta good pick coming up, but they will still have Shaqs huge#$%% contract to deal with.

Lakers fans really believe in their hearts they have a championship contender ?
your team is worse than the knicks
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From a GM standpoint, look at it this way.

Miami is paying Shaq $30 million, he has played under 20 games this season, and the team is in last place. In terms of filling up seats, I see a lot moreempty seats at Heat games. That makes this a bad investment.


LA is paying Kobe somewhere around $18 million, has a team with tons of young talent and potential, a top 5 team in the West (standings-wise) and they couldonly get better, with a lot of cap space available starting this upcoming offseason. And Lakers always fill the seats, and get a lot of national exposure. Sounds like a good investment to me.


So, I hear yall when you talk about rings, but from a business standpoint it's a great move. In terms of paying what you get, it's like paying morefor a Hummer that's always in the shop, as opposed to an X5 that's hardly ever in the shop.
 
Originally Posted by WILLINC

Lakers fans really believe in their hearts they have a championship contender ?
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Um, yes. Ignore this season if you want. Move onto next.

A 30 year old Kobe in his prime
A 21 year old C growing by leaps and bounds every game he plays. Look at the jump he's made each of the last couple years. Imagine where he'll be inthe next year or two.
A 23 year old PG growing into his game everyday
A 20 year old PG following up the 23 year old.
Phil Jackson......nuff said there.

Solid role guys in Walton, Turiaf, Ariza, and a veteran semi stat guy in Odom.

A move or two is needed to shore some things up, but add all the componets up and you have a pretty solid roster. Throw in an aging Duncan, and no defenseplaying Suns team, a never won anything Dallas squad and a couple young up and comers like the Blazers and Hornets and Jazz, there's no reason we'renot right there. Detroit and Boston are both aging as well and only Detroit has any depth.

So would I bet my life on us winning a chip in the next year or two, no of course not, do I think if we stay healthy and continue to grow as we have been couldwe win one, yes absolutley I do.
 
keep in mind, had Mitch not been a ******, we would have a starting lineup like this:

C- Bynum
PF- Odom
SF - Butler
SG - Kobe
PG - Fish

plus our bench is probably the deepest bench in the league. Had Mitch nottraded away Butler for circus peanuts we would have another all-star on our team.
 
Wow, great analysis. Because noone knew in 2004 that Shaq, being 6 years older than Kobe, would age quicker than Kobe in the long run.

2004-05: The Heat got the better end of the trade
2005-06: The Heat got the better end of the trade
2006-07: Shaq injured half of the season, but both teams were first round dropouts.
2007-08 is the only season since the Shaq trade where the Lakers truly look right for keeping Kobe, for obvious reasons as Shaq is about to turn 36. But youshouldn't say that the Lakers made the right choice until Kobe wins a ring for them.
 
I never faulted the Lakers front office for shipping Shaq to Miami. Dude was on the decline, while you had Kobe whom was entering his prime. Yes, Miamiproduced a ring, while the Lakers have had a 2 first round exits, and a missed playoff appearance, but the Lakers take a "L" for shipping CaronButler back East.
 
There is 100% blame distributed evenly at 33.3% to Kobe, Shaq, and management for not making that work longer.

Now, the problem Kobe/management had with Shaq was that he wasn't keeping himself in top shape... and that has proven to be true. His shape has declined,even to the point where Riley has challenged him to work harder on being in top condition. So Heat fans/Shaq apologists, you can't say the Lakers werewrong on that one.

And the problem Shaq had with Kobe was that he felt that Kobe was getting too big for his britches, trying to run things instead of just being a 2-guard.Considering what happened this past summer, Shaq was right about that; Kobe has overstepped his boundaries.

So both parties were right about their gripes.

It looks like Shaq's gripe on Kobe ('Stop trying to run things. Shut up and play ball. When coach tells me what to do, I listen. You're notcoach.') has subsided some, because Kobe is playing great right now.

But it looks like the gripe on Shaq held by Kobe/Lakers management has NOT gone away. Yes, the Heat have won a championship, but at what cost?

The Heat sacrificed their future to win RIGHT NOW (and they did win one RIGHT NOW, and they did sacrifice their future).

The Lakers sacrificed RIGHT NOW to continue being a winning franchise (no playoffs as soon as Shaq was gone, then a first round exit, followed by another firstround exit, and now currently the #1 team in the Western Conference.)

The Heat are in a load of trouble; not just this season, but for the near future. All the major pieces to that championship are gone (a healthy Shaq, a healthyD-Wade, veteran contributions from Payton and Mourning, good role players in Walker and Posey). That is gone, and not much available to replace any of thosepieces; D-Wade will get healthy, and you guys will be the new Cavs, except worst.

The Lakers have the 3rd youngest team in the entire league. For those of you that trouble spelling things out, I'll give you a hand; the Lakers have thebest record in the Western Conference + the 3rd youngest team in the league. That spells 'solid foundation for future success'.
 
The Heat won a Championship. That's all that matters. The Miami front office would be foolish to expect more than three years out of Shaq, who is alwaysinjured anyway.

Short term = Miami wins.
Long term = Los Angeles wins. But their success has nothing to do with the trade, really. Only Odom remains, and he hasn't been the player the Lakersenvisioned him to be. Bynum is playing well, Fisher was a great pick-up, and Kobe is the MVP.

In this case, the short term (title) >>> long term.
 
If you equal all of the subsequent trades, it was Shaq for Odom, Kwame, and Jordan Farmar. Eh, we'll see. As for the Butler for Brown, I think that Mitchsaw that he needed big men since Mihm wasn't doing squat. He thought Kwame Brown just needed a change of environment and took a gamble. He probablyshouldn't have done it, but I bet he was thinking "if this works out...people will think I'm a genius!"
 
justhotkicks:
The Heat won a Championship. That's all that matters.

short term (title) >>> long term.
Ummm... yeah, that's just false.

Period.

For running a franchise, your ability to maintain success in the future is just as critical as your success right now in the present. If you make a businessplan predicated on immediate success that eliminates any possibility of future success, you've just severely crippled your business.

For an example of what I'm talking about, here's a business that's in a world of trouble because they threw all of their chips on the table forimmediate success, but their current and future prospects look bleak:














cover0506_heat_logo.jpg




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Originally Posted by Big J 33

Since when are NBA titles that important???

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Um, forever. It's why they play the game. It's what every fan desires. They are all that matter. The only fans who say they don'tmatter, don't have any rings to chirp about.
 
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