Isn't using the off arm to shield a defender a foul? Vol. Steve Nash

chikickz

chikickz

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This play happens on the time at the gym. Player drives, extends his off arm away from his body to stop me from blocking his shot. I don't call this afoul unless that off arm elbows me in the face.

Isn't this supposed to be an offensive foul in the NBA?


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I don't think so. I remember growing up, every coach would always teach to use the off arm to protect the ball while on offense.
 
Don't put me on my word (nope, not betting my NT username this time!
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), but I think if you SHOVE off with that arm (and a defender goes back) thenit's an offensive foul, if not, and if in this case where it looks like Nash's arm is just there, it's fine.

And, a picture doesn't justify much, so it's hard to tell.
 
I just skimmed the NBA rulebook.. the only thing it could really be considered is the "elbow rule"... But unless you're being flagrant with it,it's not really a foul I guess.

I think offensive players get away with too much in this sense, but defensive players get way too many charges called so I guess it sort of evens the playingfield a bit. Bottom line is, the game of basketball needs to really take a better look at how it's officiating games at every level before the game turnsinto European soccer, with a bunch of Ronaldo's and Rivaldo's running around out there falling down at the slightest change in the wind.
 
Nash's Zoom 2's are fire, but yea it generally is however I'd have to see the play in motion and not a photo to judge
 
it's a gray area, but in general, superstars get away with anything, even if they're only superstars in their own mind.
 
Originally Posted by hugebird

You're calling offensive fouls at your gym?
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I know you weren't talking to me - but in all seriousness, I'm ready to start calling everything. I'm so tired of these wack players breakingevery rule and acting like "it's just pickup ball, you can't do nothing about it"..

Dudes camping in the lane for literally 30 seconds at a time.. guys putting their heads down and running people over and calling for ball... the worstcarries you'll ever see, not to mention dudes that just travel every single time they get the ball...

The game is getting ugly... very ugly.. thanks and1.
 
Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by hugebird

You're calling offensive fouls at your gym?
Click to expand...

I know you weren't talking to me - but in all seriousness, I'm ready to start calling everything. I'm so tired of these wack players breaking every rule and acting like "it's just pickup ball, you can't do nothing about it"..

Dudes camping in the lane for literally 30 seconds at a time.. guys putting their heads down and running people over and calling for ball... the worst carries you'll ever see, not to mention dudes that just travel every single time they get the ball...

The game is getting ugly... very ugly.. thanks and1.
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That's only going to cause fights. I got in a fist fight with some man in his mid-30s a couple years ago over a "self pass" call.
 
I hate when dudes try to fight @ the gym; try to make a scene out of something small. Just makes you not want to play anymore.
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Originally Posted by hugebird

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by hugebird

You're calling offensive fouls at your gym?
Click to expand...

I know you weren't talking to me - but in all seriousness, I'm ready to start calling everything. I'm so tired of these wack players breaking every rule and acting like "it's just pickup ball, you can't do nothing about it"..

Dudes camping in the lane for literally 30 seconds at a time.. guys putting their heads down and running people over and calling for ball... the worst carries you'll ever see, not to mention dudes that just travel every single time they get the ball...

The game is getting ugly... very ugly.. thanks and1.
Click to expand...

That's only going to cause fights. I got in a fist fight with some man in his mid-30s a couple years ago over a "self pass" call.
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What happened sura????

Like, what was so bad about the call....
 
Well, he called a self pass on my team. I told him that they don't exist. We argued a little and probably said something about how it was amazing that hecould live for almost 40 years and be so stupid. We get the ball back, and I can see that he's stewing. Next play I get to the cup and get clotheslined bythe guy, and he just walks away feeling proud of himself. As his back is to me, I peg him in the head with the ball. He runs toward me, I catch him with aglancing blow, and we start wrestling around and I end up choking him until people pull me off. I got a two week suspension from my gym.
 
its not a foul if your occupying "your" space,

if you displace the defender, by pushing the defender away = foul

hence the trickyness of that play....
 
This play happens on the time at the gym. Player drives, extends his off arm away from his body to stop me from blocking his shot. I don't call this a foul unless that off arm elbows me in the face.

Isn't this supposed to be an offensive foul in the NBA?
See, in the NBA, you know that they are not going to call that kind of foul.
The key here is the extention of the arm. When I ref games, I will let players get away with it, but only if the defender is jumping into the offensive player.If thats the case, it gets to a situation where the ref makes "no call".
Mainly, heres how the NBA should be looking at the situation. The situation of advantage/disadvantage. Is Steve Nash, in this situation, creating an advantageby doing something outside the rules? Dont know, need to see the play in action. Is Steve Nash creating a disadvantage for the defender? Again, dont know. Butfrom what is described earlier, Steve Nash extended his arm, which I can assume creates a situation where Steve Nash is at a huge advantage.The call? Offensive foul.
You will see High School, possibly NCAA refs makes these calls. However, in the NBA, players could murder someone on the court, and there would be no actionfrom the refs or the front office. Players get away with anything in the NBA, which is actually quite sad. Takes away from the game. Bending the rules, callingtacky fouls, the game isnt what the game should be.
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Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

Dudes camping in the lane for literally 30 seconds at a time..
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If somebody ever called three seconds in the key in a pickup game, I'd kill them on the spot.

It's not that serious that you have to be counting and looking for it.. but when a guy just comes down the court and sits there in the middle of thepaint for the entire possession, that's bogus. You're a bum if you pull that.. and when somebody says something, dudes just laugh like they aren'tdoing anything wrong.

I mean - there's a reason the 3 second call exists.. it's a huge advantage to be able to camp in there to the offense. So basically, you'recheating if you're camping in there.. and if you're going to cheat to win pickup games, you're a lame.
 
I cant stand dudes who camp in the lane. You say somethin like homie you can't stay there all game and they do one of many things

laugh
"im tired - i just play X games today"
"son im fat - what else am i suppose to do"
move one foot to the left/right and feel satisfied

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I hate the people that camp in the lane, it's like they serve as not only an option for scoring on offense but they can also set screens right in themiddle of the land and make it easy for the guy driving to the basket to get a layup. But Craftsy I feel you on the guys that put their heads down and try tobull their way through. Me being a smaller guy myself I just reach in and try to poke or swat the ball away. Then they wanna call foul saying their gettinghacked. I swear the bigger guys are the#%@%#$*# on the court, like they're not supposed to get touched, hella diva like and *%++.
 
Originally Posted by hugebird

You're calling offensive fouls at your gym?
Click to expand...

No. But the grey area is getting elbowed in the face while I'm trying to block a shot because the penetrator is using that off arm as a weapon. Whenthe player is doing that on purpose I just shout out foul. I do that for two reasons, one, I just took a cheap shot to the face and two, I'm trying tostop the play because now I can't see %*%# because I took an elbow to the face.
I also take charges even though I know it's not a foul. I'm notcalling any cats for charging. But it does throw off their shots. Just being in front of them between their slashing and the rim is enough to throw off theirshot.
 
Originally Posted by sho3tym

its not a foul if your occupying "your" space,

if you displace the defender, by pushing the defender away = foul

hence the trickyness of that play....
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That makes sense. I see what you're saying.
 
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This turning into a pick-up argument...

I don't think I've ever seen anybody even try to make a 3 second call at the rec or park. At my gym, you'd probably get dismissed for the day foreven considering making that call...

You guys don't call offensive fouls in pick-up games? I have no problem with it whatsoever, but you better not call it unless it's blatantly obvious,and you better not be setting up for charges under the basket every trip down the court. I've gotten in a scuffle or two because of people calling illegalscreens, though. I mean, really? If my dude clotheslines you, stiff arms you, truck sticks you, then fine. But you better not call an illegal screen because Ididn't have my feet set.
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People calling a carry frustrates the hell out of me too. If a guy's palm is facing the sky when he's dribbling, fine,but it's another one of those things where you better not call it unless it's 100% obvious.

As for the question at hand, I don't think using the off-arm is a foul unless you're intentionally throwing it into a defender to keep positioning. Ifyou're going up for a layup and you're just using it as a ball shield, I don't think many officials will call it.
 
My rule in pickup games is to warn a guy if he's holding players, moving on screens, and generally thumbing his nose at every unwritten rule of pickupbasketball. I just tell them that if he keeps it up our team will just do the same to his team and we'll end up in a wrestling match instead of basketballgame.
 
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