Tipping etiquette when you're being treated

JesusShuttlesworth34 said:
The folks who never tip definitely haven't worked in a service industry based job like the restaurant business as a waiter or a bartender. You do know their "salary" comes strictly from tips right? That $2.00 an hour they make is soley for taxes. Cheap folks are the worst.
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Not in California, They can't get paid less than minimum wage ($8/hour)
 
JesusShuttlesworth34 said:
The folks who never tip definitely haven't worked in a service industry based job like the restaurant business as a waiter or a bartender. You do know their "salary" comes strictly from tips right? That $2.00 an hour they make is soley for taxes. Cheap folks are the worst.
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actually the employer has to make sure after tips they are making at least min. wage and if they are not they have to make up the difference
 
I was a waiter since age 13 at my uncles restaurant. Did it up until 19. Waiters deserve every penny. Its not as easy as it looks. You have to be quick and observant. But the more you do it, the more you enjoy, depending the place.
 
JesusShuttlesworth34 said:
The folks who never tip definitely haven't worked in a service industry based job like the restaurant business as a waiter or a bartender. You do know their "salary" comes strictly from tips right? That $2.00 an hour they make is soley for taxes. Cheap folks are the worst.
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Whatever. People want to be able to brag about how they made $300 off 4 hrs of "work" at Buffalo Wild Wings on a Friday, same time you are going to have people who aren't impressed that you bought an order that you didn't cook from the kitchen to the table and refilled a drink a couple of times. Same way you could inductively call someone who doesn't think tipping makes any sense cheap, I could point out that your job (not you in particular but angry waiters and doormen) involves you carrying plates from point a to point b, and refilling drinks from a fountain, and therefore you must not be very smart. My niece is 3 and I can tell her to go to the fridge and get me a soda and put it in the glass and figure it out. Some people should be happy in America that we have Labor Laws, otherwise they could and would easily be replaced by adolescents. I see it all the time when I travel out of the country, or in "family owned" Oriental spots, the youngest son/daughter taking orders and refilling drinks. It's simple ****.

I think you deserve minimum wage, which they get because their employer is legally obligated to make up for it in the event they don't get enough tips to close the gap between the ~$2.00 an hr and minimum wage.

****** arrangement, that you voluntarily signed up for. Cry me a river

Only ghetto, classless, or cheap people don't tip when they get good service. Trying to justify it any other way is all BS.
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Only stupid people lacking any real marketable skill take jobs making sub minimum wage doing mundane tasks then cry about it that people aren't dropping on hands and knees in praise for their door opening, glass filling service and making it rain in their direction.

And then what is the justification for the + minimum wage making people who have their hands out and tisk and breathe all hard if you don't tip them like valet, shuttle car/bus service, postmen, doormen, barbers/stylists, baristas at coffee shops, the bag checker at the airport, everybody. Just keep your wallet out. Everyone "deserves" a tip under the guise of "service," which frankly applies to most jobs.
 
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JesusShuttlesworth34 said:
The folks who never tip definitely haven't worked in a service industry based job like the restaurant business as a waiter or a bartender. You do know their "salary" comes strictly from tips right? That $2.00 an hour they make is soley for taxes. Cheap folks are the worst.
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People that don't tip say the employer should pay the servers better but reality is if employers did that, people will be be forced to pay $50 for what was a $35 entree. Profit margin on food overall isn't very high when you consider all the costs associated with getting that meal to the customer. Higher food costs and sales from higher food costs = higher taxes for employers which then get passed down to the customer. In the end the process is a lot more expensive. Also those same people who don't tip would be irate if they had to get up and pick up their own food when it was ready, refill their own drinks, get up and walk to kitchen to ask for extra sauce, or get up and take their salad/soup plates to the dishwasher in the middle of their meal.
 
DatZNasty said:
Whatever. Mofos want to be able to brag about how they made $300 off 4 hrs of work at Buffalo Wild Wings on a Friday, same time you are going to have people who aren't impressed that you bought an order that you didn't cook from the kitchen to the table and refilled a drink a couple of times. Same way you could inductively call someone who doesn't think tipping makes any sense cheap, I could point out that your job (not you in particular but angry waiters and doormen) involves you carrying plates from point a to point b, and refilling drinks from a fountain, and therefore you must not be very smart. My niece is 3 and I can tell her to go to the fridge and get me a soda and put it in the glass and figure it out. Some people should be happy in America that we have Labor Laws, otherwise they could and would easily be replaced by adolescents. I see it all the time when I travel out of the country, or in "family owned" Oriental spots, the youngest son/daughter taking orders and refilling drinks. It's simple ****.
I think you deserve minimum wage, which they get because their employer is legally obligated to make up for it in the event they don't get enough tips to close the gap between the ~$2.00 an hr and minimum wage.
****** arrangement, that you voluntarily signed up for. Cry me a river
Only stupid people lacking any real marketable skill take jobs making sub minimum wage doing mundane tasks then cry about it that people aren't dropping on hands and knees in praise for their door opening, glass filling service and making it rain in their direction.
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I can't fight ignorance with logic, therefore you win. Goodnight, no hard feelings.
 
DatZNasty said:
Only stupid people lacking any real marketable skill take jobs making sub minimum wage doing mundane tasks then cry about it that people aren't dropping on hands and knees in praise for their door opening, glass filling service and making it rain in their direction.
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This thread isn't really about tipping or not, you don't tip and that's cool. I personally do, and I wasn't asking for an opinion on that, I wanted to know what to do in my situation.

Anyways, it's not easy finding employment especially as a teenager. It doesn't mean you're dumb. I know kids who are going to Ivy League universities that worked jobs which didn't require a lot of mental skill. Hell I consider myself fairly smart and still had trouble finding a job in high school.
 
AirThompson said:
My thoughts exactly . . .
700
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700
 
JesusShuttlesworth34 said:
I can't fight ignorance with logic, therefore you win. Goodnight, no hard feelings.
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But you can just just dismiss an opinion you don't agree with by calling it ignorance. Your "logic" was debunked anyways, not even just by myself but another user as well. They make at least minimum wage. If their tips don't add up, the employer has to pitch in until it does.

http://www.rd.com/13-things/30-secrets-your-waiter-will-never-tell-you/
More Secrets Your Waiter Will Never Tell You

Two dozen servers reveal the truth about what goes on behind the kitchen doors.
By Michelle Crouch from Reader's Digest | December 2009

Share on Twitter

Email

Print

More Secrets Your Waiter Will Never Tell You[emoji]169[/emoji]2009 Jupiterimages Corporation

What would two dozen servers from across the country tell you if they could get away with it? Well, for starters, when to go out, what not to order, what really happens behind the kitchen’s swinging doors, and what they think of you and your tips. Here, from a group that clears a median $8.01 an hour in wages and tips, a few revelations that aren’t on any menu.

Plus: 20 More Secrets Your Waiter Won’t Tell You

What We Lie About

1. We’re not allowed to tell our customers we don’t like a dish. So if you ask your server how something is and she says, “It’s one of our most popular dishes,” chances are she doesn’t like it. —Waitress at a well-known pizza chain

2. On Christmas Day, when people ask why I’m there, I might say, “My sister’s been in the hospital,” or, “My brother’s off to war, so we’re celebrating when he gets back.” Then I rake in the tips. —Chris, a New York City waiter and the founder of bitterwaitress.com

3. If you’re looking for your waiter and another waiter tells you he’s getting something out of the stockroom, you can bet he’s out back having a quick smoke. —Charlie Kondek, former waiter at a Denny’s in Central Michigan

4. If someone orders a frozen drink that’s annoying to make, I’ll say, “Oh, we’re out. Sorry!” when really I just don’t want to make it. But if you order water instead of another drink, suddenly we do have what you originally wanted because I don’t want to lose your drink on the bill. —Waitress at a casual Mexican restaurant in Manhattan
What You Don’t Want to Know

5. When I was at one bakery restaurant, they used to make this really yummy peach cobbler in a big tray. A lot of times, servers don’t have time to eat. So we all kept a fork in our aprons, and as we cruised through the kitchen, we’d stick our fork in the cobbler and take a bite. We’d use the same fork each time. —Kathy Kniss

PLUS: 13 Things Your Grocer Won’t Tell You

6. If you make a big fuss about sending your soup back because it’s not hot enough, we like to take your spoon and run it under really hot water, so when you put the hot spoon in your mouth, you’re going to get the impression—often the very painful impression—that your soup is indeed hot. —Chris

7. I’ve seen some horrible things done to people’s food: steaks dropped on the floor, butter dipped in the dishwater. —Waiter at a casual restaurant in the Chicago area

What You’re Really Swallowing

8. If your dessert says “homemade,” it probably is. But it might be homemade at a bakery three miles away. —Charity Ohlund

9. I knew one guy—he was a real jerk—he’d go to Costco and buy this gigantic carrot cake for $10 and tell us to say it’s homemade. Then he sold it for $10 a slice. Steve Dublanica, veteran New York waiter and author of Waiter Rant: Thanks for the Tip—Confessions of a Cynical Waiter

What Drives Us Crazy

10. Oh, you needed more water so badly, you had to snap or tap or whistle? I’ll be right back … in ten minutes. —Charity Ohlund

11. We want you to enjoy yourself while you’re there eating, but when it’s over, you should go. Do you stay in the movie theater after the credits? No. —Waiter at a casual restaurant in the Chicago area

12. My biggest pet peeve? When I walk up to a table of six or seven people and one person decides everyone needs water. I’m making a trip to deliver seven waters, and four or five of them never get touched. —Judi Santana, a server for ten years

What We Want You to Know

13. Sometimes, if you’ve been especially nice to me, I’ll tell the bartender, “Give me a frozen margarita, and don’t put it in.” That totally gyps the company, but it helps me because you’ll give it back to me in tips, and the management won’t know the difference. —Waitress at a casual Mexican restaurant in Manhattan

14. If you’re having a disagreement over dinner and all of a sudden other servers come by to refill your water or clear your plates, or you notice a server slowly refilling the salt and pepper shakers at the table next to yours, assume that we’re listening. —Charity Ohlund

article continues.
 
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lmao at people who don't tip. These the kind of folks getting no where in life, going to continue eating at apple bees.

FYI most 4/5 star restaurants throw a minimum gratuity already into the check so good luck with your no tip nonsense.

then again team #Poor #don'ttip #classless probably continues to enjoy the life of apple bees and red lobster :x
 
I always tip. Never understood why. Especially with the cost of the food at some of these places. I don't think the argument of these waiters/waitresses getting paid enough is a valid argument either. For what it costs to eat at some places, the employer/owner of the restaurant should be compensating the waiting staff better. Why is it the consumers responsibility to make sure they make a fair wage?

Also, what defines "going out of your way"? Shouldn't good service be expected? Aren't waiting staff expected to wait for your order? Unless they're doing something outside of their job, what exactly is "out of their way"? If my waiter started doing back flips to my table and moon walked around us to take the menus while writing down our orders and did magic tricks while we waited, I would feel like my tip wasn't pointless.
 
socluis90 said:
People that don't tip say the employer should pay the servers better but reality is if employers did that, people will be be forced to pay $50 for what was a $35 entree. Profit margin on food overall isn't very high when you consider all the costs associated with getting that meal to the customer. Higher food costs and sales from higher food costs = higher taxes for employers which then get passed down to the customer. In the end the process is a lot more expensive.
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Then the free market would determine if the product is worth the cost as it does with every other business. Either they'll willingly pay for the food, go somewhere else or stay home. No one should be guilted or intimidated into tipping.  I just don't think that tipping should be mandatory as it doesn't provide an incentive for someone to do their job well.
 
DatZNasty said:
But you can just just dismiss an opinion you don't agree with by calling it ignorance. Your "logic" was debunked anyways, not even just by myself but another user as well. They make at least minimum wage. If their tips don't add up, the employer has to pitch in until it does.
http://www.rd.com/13-things/30-secrets-your-waiter-will-never-tell-you/
More Secrets Your Waiter Will Never Tell You
Two dozen servers reveal the truth about what goes on behind the kitchen doors.
By Michelle Crouch from Reader's Digest | December 2009
Share on Twitter
Email
Print
More Secrets Your Waiter Will Never Tell You[emoji]169[/emoji]2009 Jupiterimages Corporation
What would two dozen servers from across the country tell you if they could get away with it? Well, for starters, when to go out, what not to order, what really happens behind the kitchen’s swinging doors, and what they think of you and your tips. Here, from a group that clears a median $8.01 an hour in wages and tips, a few revelations that aren’t on any menu.
Plus: 20 More Secrets Your Waiter Won’t Tell You
What We Lie About
1. We’re not allowed to tell our customers we don’t like a dish. So if you ask your server how something is and she says, “It’s one of our most popular dishes,” chances are she doesn’t like it. —Waitress at a well-known pizza chain
2. On Christmas Day, when people ask why I’m there, I might say, “My sister’s been in the hospital,” or, “My brother’s off to war, so we’re celebrating when he gets back.” Then I rake in the tips. —Chris, a New York City waiter and the founder of bitterwaitress.com
3. If you’re looking for your waiter and another waiter tells you he’s getting something out of the stockroom, you can bet he’s out back having a quick smoke. —Charlie Kondek, former waiter at a Denny’s in Central Michigan
4. If someone orders a frozen drink that’s annoying to make, I’ll say, “Oh, we’re out. Sorry!” when really I just don’t want to make it. But if you order water instead of another drink, suddenly we do have what you originally wanted because I don’t want to lose your drink on the bill. —Waitress at a casual Mexican restaurant in Manhattan
What You Don’t Want to Know
5. When I was at one bakery restaurant, they used to make this really yummy peach cobbler in a big tray. A lot of times, servers don’t have time to eat. So we all kept a fork in our aprons, and as we cruised through the kitchen, we’d stick our fork in the cobbler and take a bite. We’d use the same fork each time. —Kathy Kniss
PLUS: 13 Things Your Grocer Won’t Tell You
6. If you make a big fuss about sending your soup back because it’s not hot enough, we like to take your spoon and run it under really hot water, so when you put the hot spoon in your mouth, you’re going to get the impression—often the very painful impression—that your soup is indeed hot. —Chris
7. I’ve seen some horrible things done to people’s food: steaks dropped on the floor, butter dipped in the dishwater. —Waiter at a casual restaurant in the Chicago area
What You’re Really Swallowing
8. If your dessert says “homemade,” it probably is. But it might be homemade at a bakery three miles away. —Charity Ohlund
9. I knew one guy—he was a real jerk—he’d go to Costco and buy this gigantic carrot cake for $10 and tell us to say it’s homemade. Then he sold it for $10 a slice. Steve Dublanica, veteran New York waiter and author of Waiter Rant: Thanks for the Tip—Confessions of a Cynical Waiter
What Drives Us Crazy
10. Oh, you needed more water so badly, you had to snap or tap or whistle? I’ll be right back … in ten minutes. —Charity Ohlund
11. We want you to enjoy yourself while you’re there eating, but when it’s over, you should go. Do you stay in the movie theater after the credits? No. —Waiter at a casual restaurant in the Chicago area
12. My biggest pet peeve? When I walk up to a table of six or seven people and one person decides everyone needs water. I’m making a trip to deliver seven waters, and four or five of them never get touched. —Judi Santana, a server for ten years
What We Want You to Know
13. Sometimes, if you’ve been especially nice to me, I’ll tell the bartender, “Give me a frozen margarita, and don’t put it in.” That totally gyps the company, but it helps me because you’ll give it back to me in tips, and the management won’t know the difference. —Waitress at a casual Mexican restaurant in Manhattan
14. If you’re having a disagreement over dinner and all of a sudden other servers come by to refill your water or clear your plates, or you notice a server slowly refilling the salt and pepper shakers at the table next to yours, assume that we’re listening. —Charity Ohlund
article continues.
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No one "debunked" anything. I live in Virginia.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

http://wiserwaitress.com/the-menu/wage/

The DOL is a factual site, not some Wiki-esque blog rant you just posted.

I don't have to agree with your opinion to consider it ignorant. And yes you are ignorant to the position if all you think a server does is fill up your water cup and hold open doors. I worked as a waiter/bartender in my younger days as a second job and I'll say that those people work farrrrrrrrrrrrrr harder than these Government public servants I am surrounded by now who making six figures+ and it's not even close.

I'm not trying to derail this man's thread any further. I'll agree to disagree.
 
DatZNasty said:
Whatever. People want to be able to brag about how they made $300 off 4 hrs of "work" at Buffalo Wild Wings on a Friday, same time you are going to have people who aren't impressed that you bought an order that you didn't cook from the kitchen to the table and refilled a drink a couple of times. Same way you could inductively call someone who doesn't think tipping makes any sense cheap, I could point out that your job (not you in particular but angry waiters and doormen) involves you carrying plates from point a to point b, and refilling drinks from a fountain, and therefore you must not be very smart. My niece is 3 and I can tell her to go to the fridge and get me a soda and put it in the glass and figure it out. Some people should be happy in America that we have Labor Laws, otherwise they could and would easily be replaced by adolescents. I see it all the time when I travel out of the country, or in "family owned" Oriental spots, the youngest son/daughter taking orders and refilling drinks. It's simple ****.
I think you deserve minimum wage, which they get because their employer is legally obligated to make up for it in the event they don't get enough tips to close the gap between the ~$2.00 an hr and minimum wage.
****** arrangement, that you voluntarily signed up for. Cry me a river
Only stupid people lacking any real marketable skill take jobs making sub minimum wage doing mundane tasks then cry about it that people aren't dropping on hands and knees in praise for their door opening, glass filling service and making it rain in their direction.
And then what is the justification for the + minimum wage making people who have their hands out and tisk and breathe all hard if you don't tip them like valet, shuttle car/bus service, postmen, doormen, barbers/stylists, baristas at coffee shops, the bag checker at the airport, everybody. Just keep your wallet out. Everyone "deserves" a tip under the guise of "service," which frankly applies to most jobs.
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Yeah, maybe at your country-wide, mid-range franchise that you probably eat at. Try making espresso, muddling drinks, answering very detailed questions about dietary restraints because you absolutely just cannot eat bacon or have gluten, and "running food and refilling drinks" for usually more than 20 people at a time.

I'd be the first to sign a petition saying that I get a 20% commission on the items that I sell. This way I don't have to hear your damn mouth, Mr. Pink.
 
I think tipping is just another social etiquette, sure not everyone agrees with it but it's a standard and you should follow it. Yes, it probably brings along a sense of entitlement to people in that industry but this is why you adjust your tip according to your service.

I hate people that try to reason their way out of it...you don't have to go sit in at a restaurant to eat if you don't want to tip, just get takeout. Throwing a couple bucks on top of your meal shouldn't make you whine about having to tip; otherwise, you shouldn't be eating out. This issue will always spark a debate but I don't see why there needs to be a discussion regarding a social etiquette unless something is terribly wrong about it.

And regarding OP's question, I would have just left the tip without the host knowing. Some people just don't understand the concept of tipping so you wouldn't want to bring it up and offend them.
 
"The Tip Credit (70% today)

A TIP CREDIT is the total amount of tips an employer may count towards the total applicable minimum wage. The federal tip credit is $5.12. per hr. A employer is allowed to pay servers $2.13 because they are claiming servers will make at least $5.12 an hour in tips. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY YOU THE FULL MINIMUM WAGE . $2.13 + tips received(Tip credit) must= the full applicable minimum wage.

*Other states and cities have higher or lower tip credits. In Santa Fe, NM, for Example, where the full minimum wage is$10.25 employers take a higher tip credit. Tipped employees in Santa Fe still only earn a base wage of $2.13. but those servers are supposed to make enough in tips to meet the city minimum wage. If they don’t, under city ordinance, the employer is supposed to reimburse them. Some states such as Virginia and New Jersey, allow employers under certain circumstances to take a full 100% tip credit. This means servers in these states may receive no hourly cash wage at all. States that prohibit the tip credit include: Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. Servers who work in these states (equal states) receive the same minimum wage as all other workers"

Order your food to go or get that curb side service if you aren't fond of tipping....or you can even go to the super market, buy the ingredients yourself, cook your own meal and clean your own dishes.

Because handling 8 tables at a time and a part of 40 at an upscale dining facility is just that easy.....

My mother still works as a waitress for her second job these days in Northern VA....is she stupid, no, she has just always had a passion for the food industry and thoroughly enjoys serving other people, well most of them at least.

It is laughable the number of Wizards, ********, Nationals players and Politicians/Diplomats that come in there and leave pocket change on a table after racking up a $900 bill for dinner.
 
There is a lot of ignorance in this thread and its coming from the people who are chastising the non tippers. Just because someone doesn't believe in tipping doesn't mean that they re poor, classless, etc. Do you say the same thing about people who aren't the same religion as you? Political affiliation? Likes a different sports team? People are different and there is not A SINGLE uniform idea on this planet. Somewhere there will be at least one person who disagrees with what you believe.

I do tip but still, I'm going to have to agree with DatzNastys overall idea on this one, no ones obligated to tip, and waiters arent entitled to one. That is why its a tip. Their reasons for it arent "all BS", at least to me they arent. 
 
illadelALLDAY said:
Yeah, maybe at your country-wide, mid-range franchise that you probably eat at. Try making espresso, muddling drinks, answering very detailed questions about dietary restraints because you absolutely just cannot eat bacon or have gluten, and "running food and refilling drinks" for usually more than 20 people at a time.
I'd be the first to sign a petition saying that I get a 20% commission on the items that I sell. This way I don't have to hear your damn mouth, Mr. Pink.
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Nah I don't know how hard it is to make fancy coffee. But it's a job you voluntarily signed up for. I expect you to be good at it. But is the, "my job is so hard I deserve tips and bonuses," the direction you were going? What next, I should tip so I don't get people spitting in my food right, or the valet dinging my car? Because it's not like that should already be expected. I wish I could find the NT service industry confessions threads

Remember the couple in Boston who got arrested because the restaurant put an auto gratuity on their bill, yet their waitress literally didn't do anything but take a smoke break the whole time they were there and the couple had to get their own drinks, food, and silverware. But we're just supposed to tip just because, because she only makes 2 bucks an hr? **** outta here. Get a better job. Or earn it. Taking the initial order, bringing 2 refills over a 20 minute period... you can have whatever change is inconvenient for me take back if I'm paying cash or I'll round up to some randomly selected whole dollar amount, but damn sure not 22% or 18%

And "lol at calling anyone on Niketalk cheap, like most of us don't drop 1500% just at MSRP for sneakers. People just have the right to decide what they want to spend their money on and what is worth it to them, and to me you bringing me a few glasses of soda and a plate from the kitchen you didn't cook isn't worth more than a few bucks, if that in my opinion.

And opening the door for me, yea you're not getting ****. I had a doorman audibly upset at me because I didn't tip him before and I just told him he was free not to bother when I come back. :lol:
 
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While this is a personal anecdote and not based on any scientific studies, I've found that while people in the service industry love to brag about those awesome nights when they clear 400 in tips, more often than not they're barely making it, especially during the slow months. I've known a lot of professional servers that make bank between October and Mardi Gras and then things start to slow down and by the time Jazz Fest is done if they don't have a decent sized amount stashed away they're not going to be able to take care of the emergency situations that pop up from time to time. Knowing that has led me to always tip well, and to at least offer to cover the tip if I'm being treated.
 
DatZNasty said:
Nah I don't know how hard it is to make fancy coffee. But it's a job you voluntarily signed up for. I expect you to be good at it. But is the, "my job is so hard I deserve tips and bonuses," the direction you were going? What next, I should tip so I don't get people spitting in my food right, or the valet dinging my car? Because it's not like that should already be expected. I wish I could find the NT service industry confessions threads
Remember the couple in Boston who got arrested because the restaurant put an auto gratuity on their bill, yet their waitress literally didn't do anything but take a smoke break the whole time they were there and the couple had to get their own drinks, food, and silverware. But we're just supposed to tip just because, because she only makes 2 bucks an hr? **** outta here. Get a better job. Or earn it. Taking the initial order, bringing 2 refills over a 20 minute period... you can have whatever change is inconvenient for me take back if I'm paying cash or I'll round up to some randomly selected whole dollar amount, but damn sure not 22% or 18%
And "lol at calling anyone on Niketalk cheap, like most of us don't drop 1500% just at MSRP for sneakers. People just have the right to decide what they want to spend their money on and what is worth it to them, and to me you bringing me a few glasses of soda and a plate from the kitchen you didn't cook isn't worth more than a few bucks, if that.
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I believe you should tip according to the service you receive, absolutely. Terrible service? Terrible (Or no) tip - makes sense to me. It's when people weasel they're way out of it that irks me. But by the way you're describing servers "bringing out food they didn't make or bringing out sodas" clearly tells me Chili's is a big night out for you. And that isn't to the knock servers at corporate chains because they have to put up with guests like you.

To give you some perspective, at nice places, your server is actually more like a host. Not a host as in the pretty girl who brings you to your table, but a host of your little get-together. The guy telling you about the restaurant, the specials, how the fish was actually brought it today (and it actually was, unlike a lot of other sketchy places), how we have a garden in the back where we grow our own greens, opening your wine (which is a skill to do correctly, especially with older bottles) suggesting what to pair it with - pretty much guiding you from beginning to end.

Serving is emotionally and physically intensive no matter where you are, but also mentally intensive at a more upscale place where you have to keep up with things.
 
The way people are describing how hard making coffee with whipped cream is leads me to believe that they were destined to make minimum wage anyways. See how easy that is? We can do those all day. Don't tip 18%= cheap, Job requires this much brainpower=dumb.

What is a guest "like me?" I'm actually the easiest guest to "deal with" the rarity I do go out to eat, because it's rarely in large parties and I don't lolligag so I'll be in and out in a matter of minutes. I'm just not going to be guilted or intimidated into tipping the arbitrary 18 or 22% or tipping people who I don't feel I should have to, nor do I feel like tipping should be some gamble on whether or not you are going to recieve "good service" as it is when it auto added in. If anything, it greatly deincentivizes the "service employee" since they always feel like, "I'm going to get my 15% on his 80$ order either way, so it's good, let me go take a 15 minute smoke break."

But let's just act like I'm a son of a ***** and not talk about how employers are able to pass the responsibility and costs of paying their employees onto the consumer, or how such a "system" creates people who feel entitled to it either way and therefore aren't very motivated to provided service commensurate with the type of bonus compensation they claim they deserve and if that's why service is so much better internationally.
 
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do you really need to proselytize every time a tipping thread comes up?  the OP wasn't even asking about IF you tip or not.

I think the entire forum already knows you don't approve of tipping 
 
You know why the service is better internationally? Because they pay the service staff an actual wage and because serving people is a respected position over there. Well, in France and Italy at least. The food, coincidently, is also more expensive, so you're paying for it regardless. And going out to eat in certain parts of Europe is an all day event. It's not uncommon to sit down at a cafe for hours on end. Service is also generally much slower paced there.

Again, obviously, you're not going out to anywhere nice if you're just "in and out". It doesn't work like that. And I wholeheartedly agree that the system is jacked. But if the employer has to pay us, labor cost is going up and they're going to get that money back by charging more for food...so you have to pay more anyway. Or they just steal from the servers....and that's not a joke, it's a very real concern that restaurant owners steal server's tips.
 
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