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Kobe/Jordan identical plays....vol. uncanny - Page 3

post #61 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ill steelo View Post

I too would love to see what a player of Jordan's ability could do in today's league.
He'd be like a 6-6 Wade with a jumper.
Wow!!! So what makes this era so much better?

To correct you, He'd actually be a 6'6 Kobe with more athleticism, better defense, better finishing, and a much higher shooting percentage.

I think Kobe is the second greatest SG of all time, one of the greatest of all time but what has Kobe ever been better than Michael on? Honestly, what is it? Kobe was better at 3 point shots and 30 foot jumpers because he'd settle for them much more than Jordan ever wanted. Someone let me know. I'm completely unbiased, not a Kobe Hater, not a Kobe Stan.
post #62 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeIt88 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ill steelo View Post

I too would love to see what a player of Jordan's ability could do in today's league.
He'd be like a 6-6 Wade with a jumper.
Wow!!! So what makes this era so much better?

To correct you, He'd actually be a 6'6 Kobe with more athleticism, better defense, better finishing, and a much higher shooting percentage.

I think Kobe is the second greatest SG of all time, one of the greatest of all time but what has Kobe ever been better than Michael on? Honestly, what is it? Kobe was better at 3 point shots and 30 foot jumpers because he'd settle for them much more than Jordan ever wanted. Someone let me know. I'm completely unbiased, not a Kobe Hater, not a Kobe Stan.

Only thing I'd argue would be long/mid-range shooting but it's not like it'd be a landslide difference. Kobe ain't MJ though, nobody will be MJ.
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post #63 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by zube42 View Post

Only thing I'd argue would be long/mid-range shooting but it's not like it'd be a landslide difference. Kobe ain't MJ though, nobody will be MJ.
Right, that's what I'd say as well. I wouldn't say mid-range but definitely long-range but I never remember Jordan taking 30 foot shots either, Kobe was def making but taking more long range shots so I'd guess he'd have that edge.
post #64 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldmember View Post

The problem with Kobe is dude doesn't care .. He's still trying to do moves that he does (which he was good at) 4- 5 years ago in terms of crossover, driving in traffic , etc.. which causes more harm (to the team) than good due to his age.. He's more effective coming off screen or when he focus just punishing defenders down on the post.. maybe it was just lack of PG play that he's trying to do so much all the time. Unlike MJ, He's great at picking his spots and just unstoppable on the mid-range area..

With Nash on board, i'm interested to see how Kobe's game will change..

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His injuries have brought him down, he cannot handle the ball any more, he cannot split the double, and his "defense" most of the time consists of gambling the passing lanes. However with Nash running the offense this year things MAY be different...
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post #65 of 97
I think both haters and fans need to chill. Kobe took moves from many greats from past and present. He also created things for the future.

My beef with Kobe as he's coming to a close of his career is that he could have been an even better all around player and I'm not talking about skill for his own greatness but empowering his teammates.

I'm not a Lebron fan but the one thing I respect Lebron the most for out of all his attributes is that he stays aggressive passing to his teammates. He doesn't give up on the fact that regardless of how many missed shots or other failures his teammates make he still passes to them and allows them to create and fail.

If Kobe did this one trait with his individual greatness he would in my mind be teh GOAT no question. He has shown the capabilities of being a dominant passer, taking a backseat when another teammate is on fire, and not controlling the offense and yet still ending the game with 30, 5, and 5.

Kobe has had a game where he had 10+ assist in a quarter, a triple double by halftime, scored 30 of others creating for him, and played tenacious D and big offense at the same time.
post #66 of 97
I never understood the reason for hating on a basketball player, rather than appreciating what that player has achieved in his career... I could understand the hate if a player was battling your team in a playoff series, but to constantly belittle certain players and try to "maintain & restore" the legend of Michael Jordan on this board is hilarious to me.
post #67 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoupeIt88 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ill steelo View Post

I too would love to see what a player of Jordan's ability could do in today's league.
He'd be like a 6-6 Wade with a jumper.
Wow!!! So what makes this era so much better?

To correct you, He'd actually be a 6'6 Kobe
I didn't say the era was better at all. I just said I'd love to see him today because there isn't a player right now who can get to the rim consistently, post up, AND be able to hit midrange jumpers at an elite level. Combine that with how you're not allowed to be as physical defensively today compared to the '90s and I would love to see a player with his IQ & skills in today's league.

And how can he be a 6'6 Kobe, when Kobe is already 6'6?

The reason I made the Wade comparison is because Wade doesn't take threes and he's a terrific slasher. Two characteristics of Jordan's play.
Edited by ill steelo - 8/30/12 at 1:17pm
post #68 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ill steelo View Post

I didn't say the era was better at all. I just said I'd love to see him today because there isn't a player right now who can get to the rim consistently, post up, AND be able to hit midrange jumpers at an elite level. Combine that with the banishment of handchecking & I'd love to see what he can do today.
And how can he be a 6'6 Kobe, when Kobe is already 6'6?
The reason I made the Wade comparison is because Wade doesn't take threes and he's a terrific slasher, like Jordan was.

Theres no hand checking today, but you werent allowed to play zone and other defenses that are designed to stop a certain player.

In no way am I suggesting that he wouldn't be a great player, but if you don't think defensive schemes along with bigger more athletic guards would make a difference in how great Jordan would be you're delusional
post #69 of 97
So Kobe has NO identity, yet the entire world knows who he is. And we're supposed to believe that everyone thinks hes some kind of fake variant Jordan.
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post #70 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonMan818 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ill steelo View Post

I didn't say the era was better at all. I just said I'd love to see him today because there isn't a player right now who can get to the rim consistently, post up, AND be able to hit midrange jumpers at an elite level. Combine that with the banishment of handchecking & I'd love to see what he can do today.
And how can he be a 6'6 Kobe, when Kobe is already 6'6?
The reason I made the Wade comparison is because Wade doesn't take threes and he's a terrific slasher, like Jordan was.

Theres no hand checking today, but you werent allowed to play zone and other defenses that are designed to stop a certain player.

In no way am I suggesting that he wouldn't be a great player, but if you don't think defensive schemes along with bigger more athletic guards would make a difference in how great Jordan would be you're delusional

Are you just repeating what you're hearing from other people? laugh.gif





He saw zone, doubles, triples, all of that stuff.
post #71 of 97

It's clear Kobe watched a ton a video's and practiced Jordan's moves, but I don't see why people look down on Kobe for it.

 

What's bad about having Jordan as your idol?

post #72 of 97
^ Whys the one dude in that first vid keep callin MJ "Kobe"? laugh.gif
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post #73 of 97
You think that original video was something?

post #74 of 97
Vid doesnt work.
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post #75 of 97
Original or the one I posted? The one I posted works
post #76 of 97
Kobe, arguably todays best student of the game, studied the greatest to do it? And incorporated some of his moves nto his own game? what a lame mean.gif

I don't understand some of you dudes laugh.gif
post #77 of 97
So a guy studies moves that are known to work in a game that he's passionate about and that's bad? Some of u dudes ride Jordan or hate kobe waaaay to hard
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post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by presequel View Post

So Kobe has NO identity, yet the entire world knows who he is. And we're supposed to believe that everyone thinks hes some kind of fake variant Jordan.

This. Plus Jordan didn't invent basketball. Dudes act like Jordan created the crossover, fadeaway, etc and trademark it so if anyone use it would consider a crime. MJ stans are hilarious.

And Rick Barry dunked from the freethrow line as well. I guess he copied MJ too lol according to his stans
Edited by ACBboyz84 - 9/8/12 at 10:05pm
post #79 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce King View Post

[quote name="Mamba MVP" url="/t/505346/kobe-jordan-identical-plays-vol-uncanny/30#post_16225245" For the younger generation that didn't watch Jordan play Kobe definitely got over on alot of you dudes out here that simply don't know any better.

THIS
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post #80 of 97

Anybody got info on Kobe and Jordan head to head match-ups? In terms of stats. 

 

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post #81 of 97
Michael Jordan fans, I heard the Home Depot is having a 25% Off sale on pitchforks, torches, and molitov cocktail supplies. As a word of friendly advice, you might want to run down and stock up on those items before you finish reading this column.

While the subjective debate about, "Is Kobe better than MJ?" is not going to die for the next few years as Kobe continues with his blood-lust pursuit of more titles and individual scoring records, there is at least one way to objectively look at the Kobe vs. MJ debate:


How did they perform in head-to-head match-ups against each other?

The answer, to put it simply, is that Kobe dominated Michael Jordan when the two of them set foot on the same NBA hardwood.

The MJ-Kobe on-court rivalry lasted eight games and started in 1996 when Kobe was just an 18-year-old reserve player and MJ was a primed 33-year-old leading the league in scoring at 30 PPG. The rivalry ended in reverse fashion in 2003 with a 25-year-old Kobe dropping 30 a night and 40-year-old MJ awkwardly huffing and puffing in a Wizards uniform. In other words, there were times during their head-to-head games when Kobe was a rookie playing 15 MPG, other times when they were both in their primes, and yet others when MJ was over the hill. In all, it is a pretty fair comparison.

And in the eight games MJ and Kobe went head-to-head, Kobe Bryant was clearly the better player as seen below. All stats are provide by Pro-Basketball-Reference.com and can be found here.

Win-Loss Record: Advantage Kobe. Kobe's Lakers beat MJ's Bulls/Wiz 5-3 in their eight head-to-head battles. One of the main reasons most NBA observers have MJ ranked above Kobe is because MJ has won more titles. That's valid. Therefore, so is Kobe's 5-3 advantage on the scoreboard.

Scoring: Advantage MJ. His Airness (24.5 PPG) barely edges out the Black Mamba (22.8 PPG) in this category. But to quote Stephen A. Smith - "How-EVVV-uh" - MJ also averaged 35.4 minutes per game to Kobe's 29.1 MPG. Kobe's stats were limited by his 10 minute and 13 minute performances when he faced MJ as a baby-faced rookie. MJ leads the stat sheet here, but Kobe was a better scorer on a per-minute basis. Kobe also has the best single-game scoring mark in the head-to-head match-up with 55 points while MJ's top output was "just" 36.

Shooting: Advantage Kobe. This one was not even close. Kobe's averages of 46.6% FG - 55.2% 3PT - 75.9% FT are noticeably better than MJ's 43.6% - 30.0% - 75.0%. MJ supporters might try to say, "But I bet MJ's numbers went down when he was a washed-up Wizard." Easy, MJ lovers. In fact, two of MJ's best shooting performances against Kobe came during their last two match-ups in 2002 (9 for 14, 64%) and 2003 (10-20, 50%). And, yes, Kobe made it rain down on Jordan's head from the three-point line, hitting an amazing 16 of 29 (55.2%) from the three-point line in their head-to-head games, including his ridiculous 9 for 13 three-point barrage in their final match-up when Kobe dropped 55 on MJ's noggin.

Assists: Advantage Kobe. Again, despite the disparity in minutes (35 for MJ, 29 for Kobe), Kobe still managed to sneak away with a 3.9 APG advantage over MJ's 3.6 APG output. Kobe also holds the single-game mark between the two when he dished out 15 assists en route to a triple double (23-11-15) against MJ's Wiz on February 12th, 2002. MJ's best assist game was six, which he recorded in the same game as Kobe's triple-double.

Rebounds: Advantage Kobe. Kobe by a nose (4.4 RPG vs. 4.3 RPG) despite MJ's heavier minutes. It didn't hurt Kobe's cause that a 40-year-old MJ recorded 0 rebounds in 41 minutes in their last head-to-head match-up.

Steals/Blocks: Even. MJ averaged more steals (1.1 vs. 0.9) while Kobe averaged more blocks (0.6 vs. 0.5). But in the end these are ancillary stats and do not carry a tremendous amount of weight in the, "Who's better?" debate.

The stats I listed above include Kobe's 10 minute and 13 minute performances as a rookie. It also includes MJ's 12 minute game from 2002. When these three anomalies are removed and only games with a regular amount of minutes were played (in this case, at least 26 minutes), Kobe's numbers are noticeably better than Jordan's:

Kobe: 6 G's, 35 MPG, 28.7 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 5.2 APG, 48% FG, 56% 3PT, 79% FT. Record: 4-2.

Jordan: 7 G's, 37 MPG, 27.3 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 3.8 APG, 48% FG, 38% 3PT, 76% FT. Record: 3-4.

The "Kobe vs. Jordan" debate will not be settled for a few more years, and depending on how Kobe finishes his career it may never be resolved.

But one thing about their rivalry is certain: Kobe dominated MJ in their head-to-head matchups.

MJ fans, I hear Home Depot is still open. Just sayin'.
post #82 of 97
This is like Apple suing Samsung.
post #83 of 97
they didnt show kobe jumping in the air like jordan when he won the championship against the magic
post #84 of 97

Krazyrodzilla went in. Kobe will always be the greatest player of all time TO ME. I was too young to watch MJ play so how can I put a player I've rarely seen play as the best. That's like saying the Beatles are better than Radiohead. Two different eras.

 

All I know is that "I didn't cry when MJ retired, but I will when Kobe does"

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post #85 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazyrodzilla View Post

Michael Jordan fans, I heard the Home Depot is having a 25% Off sale on pitchforks, torches, and molitov cocktail supplies. As a word of friendly advice, you might want to run down and stock up on those items before you finish reading this column.
While the subjective debate about, "Is Kobe better than MJ?" is not going to die for the next few years as Kobe continues with his blood-lust pursuit of more titles and individual scoring records, there is at least one way to objectively look at the Kobe vs. MJ debate:
How did they perform in head-to-head match-ups against each other?
The answer, to put it simply, is that Kobe dominated Michael Jordan when the two of them set foot on the same NBA hardwood.
The MJ-Kobe on-court rivalry lasted eight games and started in 1996 when Kobe was just an 18-year-old reserve player and MJ was a primed 33-year-old leading the league in scoring at 30 PPG. The rivalry ended in reverse fashion in 2003 with a 25-year-old Kobe dropping 30 a night and 40-year-old MJ awkwardly huffing and puffing in a Wizards uniform. In other words, there were times during their head-to-head games when Kobe was a rookie playing 15 MPG, other times when they were both in their primes, and yet others when MJ was over the hill. In all, it is a pretty fair comparison.
.


This isn't serious.


Cmon man, you can't expect people to take you seriously, when you pick some ludicrous sample size of head to head match ups vs Kobe, the bulk of which occurred during Jordan's decline phase and Washington washed phase.


This is the fact, there is no logic based argument that can end with the conclusion the Kobe is better than Jordan, it simply doesn't exist. In fact it really isn't close so please give it a rest.
Quote:
Krazyrodzilla went in. Kobe will always be the greatest player of all time TO ME. I was too young to watch MJ play so how can I put a player I've rarely seen play as the best. That's like saying the Beatles are better than Radiohead. Two different eras.

All I know is that "I didn't cry when MJ retired, but I will when Kobe does"

He didn't go in he twisted numbers around until they supported his opinion, it's not two different era's, 1996 is not like the 50's or something, we can adjust for the eras, and we come to the same conclusion, Jordan is better.

If you believe that Kobe is better your opinion cannot be taken seriously on any level when it comes to basketball.
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post #86 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh View Post


This isn't serious.
Cmon man, you can't expect people to take you seriously, when you pick some ludicrous sample size of head to head match ups vs Kobe, the bulk of which occurred during Jordan's decline phase and Washington washed phase.
This is the fact, there is no logic based argument that can end with the conclusion the Kobe is better than Jordan, it simply doesn't exist. In fact it really isn't close so please give it a rest.
He didn't go in he twisted numbers around until they supported his opinion, it's not two different era's, 1996 is not like the 50's or something, we can adjust for the eras, and we come to the same conclusion, Jordan is better.
If you believe that Kobe is better your opinion cannot be taken seriously on any level when it comes to basketball.

I mean I've only been playing basketball my entire life fam indifferent.gif I'm not one of those cats who sit on their butt and talk about a sport they have actually no experience playing competitively.

 

Let me correct my post. Kobe Bryant is the greatest player I HAVE SEEN play. Happy?


Edited by af1 1982 - 9/10/12 at 8:29am

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post #87 of 97
For real...I'm definitely not a Kobe fan, but respect the CRAP out of his game and give him props for being able to mimic as much of Jordan as humanly possible.
I honestly disliked him ever since he said his fave player was Magic and tried to deny the MJ links...c'mon son!

Anyway, HONESTLY, if you cue up enough footage of quite a few players, you will find MANY with the same moves, jumpshot, dunk etc. They are NBA moves that happen often and even some folks playing in the 90's, early 2000's have their tongue out too! The difference is that MJ mastered them, Kobe is the adjunct professor.

Vince Carter's jumpers/dunks/fadeaway next to MJ's will look similar, as would Dwayne Wade (even with his more pigeon-toed stance laugh.gif --the rest is just more clumsy-looking. AND I LIKE WADE!)

Many people who came up with the NBA in the 2000's could agree...or just be blinded and say NO WAY NOT AT ALL POSSIBLE..etc. Watch a VC clip, even a Pippen or Payton clip and look for the fades, gum-chewing, etc

ps: MARC JACKSON IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST MJ HATERS OF ALL TIME!! roll.gif, people always use him in Kobe arguments...if you know anything about Marc, you KNOW he jsut absolutely does not like Jordan! I hate hearing him talk about Kobe...its sickening lol.

pps: Again, I'm just talking moves...yes accomplishments are similar..kinda...(Kobe is much more of a pure volume shooter--aka a tall Iverson) Kobe only has rings over MJ.

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post #88 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Finster View Post

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
post #89 of 97
kobe stealing moves ??

Kobe "kakashi" bryant ?
post #90 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce King View Post

Passing off somebody else's work as your own.............nah we can't co-sign that champ. Most institutions/organizations will toss you out if your accused and found guilty of plagiarism, so with that in mind Kobe is very fortunate he's even made it this far doing what he's doing. Kobe's a great player, but at the end of the day as a basketball player he doesn't have his OWN identity.

we sitting here talking about plagiarism and being thrown out of the NBA? really?! mean.gif
so everything Kobe does, is wrong because Jordan did it? Is it wrong to mirror aspects of someone you look up to? If anyone could mirror Jordans game and actually be successful doing it, then why doesn't anyone else do it? or does it take more than just copying, say maybe a certain skill set

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjamez20 View Post

Kobe, arguably todays best student of the game, studied the greatest to do it? And incorporated some of his moves nto his own game? what a lame mean.gif
I don't understand some of you dudes laugh.gif

This.


Threads like this don't usually get to me, but some of YOU PEOPLE on here are just dumb.


my 2 cents.
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