THE OFFICIAL 2023 DALLAS COWBOYS OFF-SEASON THREAD || Cowboys Gonna Cowboy

[ackdaquick]

We didn't get enough pressure on Peyton and made it to easy on him pre-snap. He has a little more trouble with 3-4 D's cause he isn't always sure where they are rushing from.

The nature of this D is to give up the shallow stuff to prevent the big plays, but with no pass rush when the ball gets in someones hands who is good in space or you miss tackles it will be a long day.

 

[mr s j king]

It depends on how you look at things. Personally I'm a huge believer in Pro Football Focus and they gave him a bad grade for this game. I agree with what was said earlier, Peyton not targeting Carr had more to do with the D we were playing. We've allowed 500 yards to tight ends and running backs the last two games. Not saying he's bad by any means tho. Carr has been awesome for us.

We released Will Allen. This draft is looking like a success. Two starters with one other major contributor so far.

He had that holding penalty on Harris' long kick off return.
That sealed his fate.

 

[do work son]

We are 2-3. I forgot who it was, but someone said before season started that we'd start 8-0

We may not get to game 9 as a .500 team.

Doesn't matter whether you are a better team. Being a better team doesn't equate to an automatic win. If that's the case, we'd be 4-1,

The way I see it, yesterday's game showed this team who they can be.
Now they just have to finish games, and Garrett has struggled with that.
My hope is we make the necessary adjustments and begin to win these close games.

hasn't this been the problem with the cowboys for years? show flashes of greatness, then play down to their competition

 

[blackboyfly]

^^^ Yes. Only thing that's different is this year the East is garbage top to bottom, so they can get away with it.

 

[mr s j king]

hasn't this been the problem with the cowboys for years? show flashes of greatness, then play down to their competition

No because under Wade Phillips we won the division twice and won a playoff game.
When we were good we were good, and when we were bad we were bad.
The Garrett era has brought about this yoyo, up one week and down the next crap.
Like I mentioned before, we get out coached more than we get out played.

 

[100027]

hasn't this been the problem with the cowboys for years? show flashes of greatness, then play down to their competition

No, it really hasn't, that's just the media narrative of the "talented Cowboys" so they can get hyped up every year...

LIke, the team is average and been average.  Very talented at some places, no doubt, but very little depth and huge holes all over the field as well.  They're 8-8 every year because that's what they are.  

Not meaning to hate in the team thread, just saying that narrative seems inappropriate after we've seen all the evidence over and over. 

I mean this year so far:

-Beat Giants (bad team)

-Beat Rams (bad team)

-Lost to Denver (good team)

-Lost to KC (good team)

-Lost to San Diego (average team)

To me that doesn't say "up and down rollercoaster".  It says "average to mediocre team".

 

[do work son]

i think that's oversimplifying it. for instance, yeah they lost to the broncos, but damn did they look good. then losing to san diego they looked awful. "average/mediocre" teams at their best never look as good as the boys did against the broncos

 

[100027]

i think that's oversimplifying it. for instance, yeah they lost to the broncos, but damn did they look good. then losing to san diego they looked awful. "average/mediocre" teams at their best never look as good as the boys did against the broncos

But they're average because they have great skill position players combined with a poor defense and O-line (though the line played OK this week).  They looked good on one side of the ball against Denver and horrible on the other side.  Sounds like .500 to me.  

 

[do work son]

if anything i'd call them inconsistent

 

[100027]

if anything i'd call them inconsistent

Don't agree.  

Cowboys are consistent in what they are good at and what they're bad it, which is enough to win some games and not enough to win others.  Usually enough to get them to 8-8 every year.

Inconsistency would be the Giants of the past years, where the strengths of the team (QB, Pass Rush) oscillate wildly in their effectiveness.

Cowboys just aren't that talented!  

 

[do work son]

imagine if they never let sean payton walk

 

[blackboyfly]

i think that's oversimplifying it. for instance, yeah they lost to the broncos, but damn did they look good. then losing to san diego they looked awful. "average/mediocre" teams at their best never look as good as the boys did against the broncos

But they're average because they have great skill position players combined with a poor defense and O-line (though the line played OK this week).  They looked good on one side of the ball against Denver and horrible on the other side.  Sounds like .500 to me.  

Can't just look at the Win/Loss column and make definitive conclusions off of that. Saying that they have a bad Oline tells me you haven't watched the Cowboys this year. The Oline has been awesome this year, especially compared to previous seasons.

Dallas is an average team with above avg talent... their problem is consistency from either side of the football.

Week 1 the O essentially scores 21 points vs a team that's currently allowing 36 per. The defenses forces 6 turnovers that game.

Week 2 the O struggles again but the D plays good.

Week 3 they both play good but it was the Rams

Week 4 the Offense can only score 14 vs one of the worst defenses in the league

Week 5 the Offense scores 48 points, but the defense forgets how to play.

The offense will play amazing one week then stink it up the next, same with the defense. I'm honestly expecting the Cowboys to struggle to score 21 points vs Washington this week. But it wouldn't surprise me to see the D play great. That's coaching. If they could get a consistent performance from either side they'd be a 11 win team.

They have the talent, and they show flashes of that talent every year like DWS said, but until they're consistent(on offense or defense) they'll be average.

And being consistently average means consistent middle of the pack draft picks, which leads to more years of being consistently mediocre

 

[100027]

Can't just look at the Win/Loss column and make definitive conclusions off of that. Saying that they have a bad Oline tells me you haven't watched the Cowboys this year. The Oline has been awesome this year, especially compared to previous seasons.

Dallas is an average team with above avg talent... their problem is consistency from either side of the football.

Week 1 the O essentially scores 21 points vs a team that's currently allowing 36 per. The defenses forces 6 turnovers that game.

Week 2 the O struggles again but the D plays good.

Week 3 they both play good but it was the Rams

Week 4 the Offense can only score 14 vs one of the worst defenses in the league

Week 5 the Offense scores 48 points, but the defense forgets how to play.

The offense will play amazing one week then stink it up the next, same with the defense. I'm honestly expecting the Cowboys to struggle to score 21 points vs Washington this week. But it wouldn't surprise me to see the D play great. That's coaching. If they could get a consistent performance from either side they'd be a 11 win team.

They have the talent, and they show flashes of that talent every year like DWS said, but until they're consistent(on offense or defense) they'll be average.

And being consistently average means consistent middle of the pack draft picks, which leads to more years of being consistently mediocre

In terms of the O-line and everything else I was speaking more generally of trends over the Romo era.  You're right that the line's looked better this year, though they haven't played any tough pass rushes.  

The general trend has been you guys being good at certain positions on the field and not others, right?  Romo has been good.  WRs & Witten have been good the whole time.  Secondary has been bad the whole time, Run game has been spotty...  etc.  

Do you really see top-level defensive talent on this team?  Because I do not.  

Roster depth is the other big issue.

Anyway I didn't want to take over the team thread with negative comments about the Cowboys.  I stick to my opinion though that the "talented, underachieving Cowboys" of the last 5 years is media hype.  The team has consistently had too many talent holes to be considered a top team.  If it was anywhere else no one would talk about them- same tier as the Chargers, Titans, etc.

And unfortunately I do watch the Cowboys this year, since they put an 8-8 team on national TV every other week for some reason, like every year.

 

[blackboyfly]

Demarcus Ware, Morris Claiborne, Orlando Scandrick, Jason Hatcher, Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, Brandon Carr, Barry Church. I do this team has top level defensive talent. Problem is you can't count on any of those guys outside of Lee and Carr maybe to show up 16 games a season. Even Ware has stretches of games when you forget he's on the field, he's on one now. And the only guys who show up every single week on offense are Romo and Dez. Those inconsistencies are what leads to mediocrity for this team in my opinion.

And I can't speak for everyone but I'm fine with discussions from non fans(even negative) in the thread as long as it's not biased/blind hate/bashing. Like that emoji using Saints fan who popped up a few days ago

 

[do work son]

the cowboys have plenty of talent at plenty of positions. i honestly think it's just coaching and managing at this point. they have a hell of a lot more talent on the defensive side of the ball than a lot of teams do but don't produce. that's coaching.

 

[100027]

Demarcus Ware, Morris Claiborne, Orlando Scandrick, Jason Hatcher, Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, Brandon Carr, Barry Church. I do this team has top level defensive talent. Problem is you can't count on any of those guys outside of Lee and Carr maybe to show up 16 games a season. Even Ware has stretches of games when you forget he's on the field, he's on one now. And the only guys who show up every single week on offense are Romo and Dez. Those inconsistencies are what leads to mediocrity for this team in my opinion.

And I can't speak for everyone but I'm fine with discussions from non fans(even negative) in the thread as long as it's not biased/blind hate/bashing. Like that emoji using Saints fan who popped up a few days ago

  yeah that dude is something else.

I think when you say you can't count on those guys, that's my point.  Lee, Ware in the past, and Carr.  I mean defensive talent is all about consistency ultimately.  

Romo is the most consistent player on the whole squad which is why the blame he gets is ridiculous.

 

[blackboyfly]

I can see why you feel that way. I really don't think it's the players tho, they need a coach who will motivate them. Bruce Carter has been under performing all season. Kiffin calls him out and he proceeds to have his best game of the year. Garret rarely does that. It would mean more coming from him than the DC. Don't know what happens behind the scenes but the play on the field indicates that he doesn't hold people consistently accountable.

 

[mpire]

He had that holding penalty on Harris' long kick off return.
That sealed his fate.

I think the "I just work here" remark after being demoted is what sealed his fate.

In terms of talent/coaching/media hype, I thoroughly disagree with the latter (media hype). The media hasn't hyped us up as being a talented SB winning team since 2010. We do have a lot of talent at specific positions that are severely being under utilized. Dez Bryant is a beast and is putting up top WR #s, but you can't tell me if he wasn't in a different offense a la Sean Peyton in New Orleans or with Brady in New England, that he wouldn't be used much better. When was the last time you've seen Dez in motion? Serious question. When? We RECENTLY just started lining him up in the slot for the first time in 4 years but that's the extent of the creativity. Dez balling is strictly on Dez and Romo, not coaches finding creative ways to get him open and creating mismatches.

Coaching is a problem but I don't believe getting rid of Garrett will make us better because it starts at the top with Jerry. The culture in Valley Ranch is toxic, period point blank. Our GM/President/Owner/Assistant Head Coach goes for the knees on our HC's and completely undermines their authority. You guys do know that Jerry speaks to the team before Garrett right? We have to win despite this toxicity. That pressure alone is something most coaches don't want to deal with.

And I don't blame Garrett, honestly. He's full aware how JJ is being that he was on those 2 SB winning teams so I think he's capable of dealing with his ******** while still putting a decent product on the field. Garrett is also not an idiot. I personally think that he knows if he can have success in Dallas, where pressure is at its highest when compared to the rest of the NFL while simultaneously having to deal with Jerry, would not only elevate his already big ego, but it will speak volumes on his resume. If you can win in Dallas, you are guaranteed another HC job with no problems.

Garrett's problem is his offensive philosophy. Despite Callahan calling the plays, people need to realize its still Garrett's offense. I'm willing to cut him some slack going forward because of the Denver game and because Garrett's imitation of the Air Coryell has always required a very good offensive line, and we now have somewhat of a decent one. But don't be surprised if we go right back to conservative based offense against Washington.

In terms of going forward, if we somehow lose to Washington, I still don't believe the season is over. Remember, we started 3-5 after losing to Atlanta last year and still had the opportunity to win the division week 17. With that being said, I don't think we lose to Washington.

Side note: I LOVED the fact that Jason locked Jerry out of the locker room last year after the Falcons game, with Jerry banging on the door furiously

P..S. **** Monte Kiffin. It's being reported that his ***** *** dipped off early to avoid the media, leaving the offensive guys on the ball to answer all questions. Punk ***...

 

[blackboyfly]

He had that holding penalty on Harris' long kick off return.
That sealed his fate.

Side note: I LOVED the fact that Jason locked Jerry out of the locker room last year after the Falcons game, with Jerry banging on the door furiously

That's was one of my favorite moments involving the Cowboys ever. I'm too young to vividly remember the 90's, so seeing a coach let Jerry know what's up was exhilarating Too bad it didn't last

 

[ackdaquick]

Side note: I LOVED the fact that Jason locked Jerry out of the locker room last year after the Falcons game, with Jerry banging on the door furiously

 

[gmsboy1]

And I can't speak for everyone but I'm fine with discussions from non fans(even negative) in the thread as long as it's not biased/blind hate/bashing. Like that emoji using Saints fan who popped up a few days ago laugh.gif

Except they're not discussing anything. Seahawks fan posts about the Cowboys alot; either saying

- Cowboy fans are bad
- Cowboy team is mediocre, they just pay attention to skill players, all flash no substance
- Cowboys are overrated every year and don't deserve it
- or all of the above

And now he is in the thread saying the same thing. He's not gonna change his mind, so its not a discussion its just him telling you. And if you agree he gets the satisfaction of a Cowboy fan crapping on his own team. And if you disagree, he gets to post more about how bad the Cowboys are!

But at least he doesn't try hide behind framing it like a question.

hasn't this been the problem with the cowboys for years? show flashes of greatness, then play down to their competition

Like isn't this well known?

We have "good" (I guess, don't believe in that myself) losses (Broncos game , losing 20-16 to the Pats year before on last play, losing in 07 to the Pats by 7* last touchdown had no effect on game)

Bad wins- Pick one

Good wins- beating the 13-0 Saints

And bad losses- pick one

I'm sure every team has runs the gamut, but I'd bet my life savings not as frequently as the Cowboys.

So it's not even discussion. They're just probing. If you agree, good for them and if not better because they get to "discuss" about how terrible, inconsistent, etc the Cowboys are with actual Cowboy fans. The new hotness is getting Cowboy fans to bash (albeit politely, and in a roundtable way) the team. It's too easy with every other fan base. Of course DWS is just gonna pass this off as me attacking him, in the Cowboy team thread of all places.

 

[blackboyfly]

Most TD passes in last 3 min of 1-score games since '06: Drew Brees 18, Tony Romo 14, Eli Manning 13, Matthew Stafford 12.

 

[blackboyfly]

Via PFF: Travis Frederick is currently the #5 ranked center among those that have played 75% of the snaps (22 players) and Waters is the #17 OG, Bernadeau is ranked #50

 

[larrydavid]

Like I mentioned before, we get out coached more than we get out played.

So much truth in this statement, carrot top and/or our DC/OC out here flying under the rader for making extremely bad decisions on a consistent basis.
Is it a make or break on a week-in week-out basis? Not necessarily, does it make a huge difference when the teams are evenly matched from top to bottom?
Fu*kin right, it's why the Saints are 5-0 and we're 2-3.

 

[chiacrack]

you gotta take PFF with a grain of salt

Church was the highest rated safety on there for a few weeks but hes great against the run but suspect against the pass