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^ Pretty much what I figured you were getting at, but ppl see MJ's name and tend to see red and just blackout 
Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Spectacular23,
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The Hell are you talking about? Are you on Meth or something? This is single handily the STUPIDEST comment i've EVER read on NikeTalk. Period.
I don't understand how you're fandom for Lebron can convolute rational thinking. Or do you honestly believe Jordan played with high school players or something? Charles Barkley, David Robinson and Karl Malone won MVP's during MJ's time and many many people will argue that MJ was robbed all those times as well. No rivals? Yeah, right
Isaiah Thomas, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, John Starks and the entire 90's Knicks etc etc. Yeah, MJ had no rivals alright
The 90's was no damn cake way by the imagination. MJ was just THAT dominate to have single handily taken over an entire decade. So much so that it makes dumbasses like you believe his competition was weak. I've been lucky enough to watch MJ in his prime, so I can honestly say how dominate the man was. Dude was filthy. You guys think Lebron is a beast? Try living in the moment and watching MJ just single handily destroy the other team. At least going against Lebron you think your team has a chance. With MJ you know deep down inside it's over before it even started.
I'll even go as far as to say that I think Lebron isn't mentally "there" yet. But that's a discussion for another topic.
Honestly, bro--It's people like you that make Heat/Lebron fans look bad. Seriously.
Dude what are you rambling on about? Im not a Lebron fan. I think we are basically arguing on the same side of the argument
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Isiah's team was Jordan's rival not Isiah the player.
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Yeah Deng and Lopez just don't stack up against the greats of Chris Gatling, Reggie Lewis, and Michael Adams. True All-Stars...
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you mad but its true.
now you acting like them young niketalkers who dont listen to their parents
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Damn!
How does this man have 271 posts in 5 and a half days?
And I thought I went hard posting on Niketalk sometimes
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Damn!
How does this man have 271 posts in 5 and a half days?
And I thought I went hard posting on Niketalk sometimes
didnt you know? high post count makes you look cool
JK
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[h1]Unanimous Animus: The LeBron James MVP Vote and Debunking the Myths of 'Value'[/h1]
profile : Lowe_Zach profile is nulltrueBy Zach Lowe on
May 6, 2013 3:56 PM ET
Issac Baldizon/NBAE/Getty Images
The mystery is solved: Gary Washburn, the very fine Celtics and NBA beat reporter for the Boston Globe, a skilled veteran of this business, has outed himself as the lone voter to select someone other than LeBron James as this season’s Most Valuable Player. Washburn voted for Carmelo Anthony, and he explains his reasoning today in the Globe. I’d encourage you to read the whole thing, since Washburn found out Sunday he’s a lone outlier, and since the Globe deserves your clicks and your subscriptions after its outstanding coverage of the Boston Marathon bombing. But the crux of Washburn’s reasoning appears in these three paragraphs:
And:
But I will take issue with three points: one Washburn did not mention, and the two that are the key pieces of his pro-Melo argument.
1. Anthony missed 15 games this season.
That amounts to nearly 20 percent of the season, and represents the most games missed by any realistic MVP candidate. Only Chris Paul, who missed 12 games, is really close. James missed just six games, and most of those came at the end of the season, after Miami had already clinched the league’s best overall record.
You can’t make a case for Anthony without at least acknowledging this gap in his candidacy. When you’re choosing between the very best players in the league, every factor counts, including missed games. Only one player has ever won the MVP playing in so low a percentage of his team’s games: Bill Walton, who played just 58 of 82 games for the 1977-78 Blazers.
2. “If you were to take Anthony off the Knicks, they are a lottery team.”
You have to prove this statement, or at least try to. It does not simply become true when written. It took a measly 38 wins to make the playoffs this season in the Eastern Conference. The Knicks outscored opponents by 6.2 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the court this season and 3.2 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the bench, per NBA.com.
That’s a very meaningful gap. Anthony had a very good season, and I ranked him at no. 4 on my fake ballot — behind James, Kevin Durant, and Chris Paul. (I’d encourage you to read that if you, crazed New York fan, are taking this as some anti-Melo screed. I go on and on about Melo’s newfound efficiency and his foundational importance to New York’s small-ball identity.) But that plus-3.2 figure would still have ranked 10th among all NBA teams, and behind only Miami and Indiana in the Eastern Conference. It is the point differential of a very strong playoff team.
That alone does not disprove Washburn’s claim that New York would be in the lottery without Anthony. A good chunk of the non-Melo New York minutes, when the Knicks maintained that strong plus-3.2 scoring margin, came against opposing second units (or at least mixed starter/bench units), and it’s very possible New York would have suffered much more than these numbers indicate had Melo missed considerable time. Anthony’s longest continuous absences came in two three-game stretches during March, and the Knicks went 3-3 over those six games, with a one-point loss to the Thunder among the defeats.
Various iterations of the Knicks over the two seasons before this one showed they could survive at a .500 or better level without Anthony by shifting into a spread pick-and-roll attack. The Linsanity era coincided with Melo’s longest injury-related absence of his New York career, and the Knicks were famously 28-26 behind the Raymond Felton/Amar’e Stoudemire pick-and-roll before New York dealt for Anthony ahead of the 2011 trade deadline. That was among Stoudemire’s finest half-seasons, and it’s tempting to argue that the Knicks of today could not win that way with Stoudemire missing most of the season due to injuries. But these Knicks also have Tyson Chandler, one of the league’s very best pick-and-roll finishers, a dunk machine who sucks in opposing defenses and opens up perimeter looks for his shooters.
All of this gets into the realm of hypotheticals, and that’s sort of the point. We have no clue if New York would be a lottery team sans Anthony, and if you are going to posit they would be, you have to marshal at least some evidence. And the evidence we do have indicates they may well have been a solid no. 7 or no. 8 seed without him.
3. “If LeBron was taken away from the Heat, they still would be a fifth or sixth seed.”
Problem no. 1: We have no idea if this is actually true, in either direction. But get this: Miami outscored opponents by 14.1 points per 100 possessions with James on the floor and had a negative scoring margin when James hit the bench. That’s right: The mighty Heat got outscored when the world’s best player hit the bench.
This isn’t necessarily conclusive of anything, including that Miami would be an also-ran without James. Swap out James, and Miami would use its cap flexibility to snag an average player in his place, rejigger its rotation to include more Dwyane Wade/Chris Bosh minutes, and redesign its entire offense. But James is of bedrock importance to Miami in the same way Anthony is to New York, only he’s rather clearly better at every single aspect of basketball. Both enable their teams to play powerful small-ball lineups, but James is light years ahead of Melo as a passer and a defender.
Problem no. 2: Even if Miami would finish as a midtier playoff team without James, and not in the lottery, that is not evidence that James is somehow undeserving of the MVP. This is where the murky concept of value goes awry. Winning 66 games is extraordinarily difficult; only 13 teams have pulled it off in league history. Pushing a 48-win team to that historically elite level might be more difficult, and thus more valuable, than pushing a 40-win team to 50-plus wins. (The same might be true, by the way, for someone who pushes a 15-win team to 35 wins, even though said player would get zero consideration for the MVP.)
On a very basic level, the gap between the Heat and the no. 5 or no. 6 seed — the gap Washburn cites — was larger than the gap between the no. 2-seeded Knicks and the lottery. Miami won 21 more games than the fifth-seeded Bulls, and 22 more than the sixth-seeded Hawks, and they did so even while coasting through the last 10 games of the season. New York won “only” 16 games more than the eighth-seeded Bucks. The distance between “great” and “blah” may well be greater in this season, and in others, than the distance between “solid playoff team” and “lottery team.” Adding wins on the high end should count for just as much as adding wins on the low end, and if you care about such things, James led the league in every “wins”-related advanced stat I could find — win shares on Basketball-Reference.com, and both Value Added and Estimated Wins Added among the advanced John Hollinger stats.
Look, it’s no big deal in the scheme of life that James didn’t win unanimously. But I’ve yet to read any convincing evidence that he shouldn’t have done so.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...mes-mvp-vote-and-debunking-the-myths-of-value
profile : Lowe_Zach profile is nulltrueBy Zach Lowe on
May 6, 2013 3:56 PM ET
The mystery is solved: Gary Washburn, the very fine Celtics and NBA beat reporter for the Boston Globe, a skilled veteran of this business, has outed himself as the lone voter to select someone other than LeBron James as this season’s Most Valuable Player. Washburn voted for Carmelo Anthony, and he explains his reasoning today in the Globe. I’d encourage you to read the whole thing, since Washburn found out Sunday he’s a lone outlier, and since the Globe deserves your clicks and your subscriptions after its outstanding coverage of the Boston Marathon bombing. But the crux of Washburn’s reasoning appears in these three paragraphs:
http://
And:
This gets back to the word “valuable,” an amorphous concept that encourages voters to dig deep into roster context, team identity, and other team-by-team quirks that often make a star player more valuable because of the particular realities in which he functions. As a reminder, I don’t have an awards ballot, though I gave James my fake MVP and argued last month that he deserved the award unanimously. I won’t reiterate the pro-LeBron argument here.
But I will take issue with three points: one Washburn did not mention, and the two that are the key pieces of his pro-Melo argument.
1. Anthony missed 15 games this season.
That amounts to nearly 20 percent of the season, and represents the most games missed by any realistic MVP candidate. Only Chris Paul, who missed 12 games, is really close. James missed just six games, and most of those came at the end of the season, after Miami had already clinched the league’s best overall record.
You can’t make a case for Anthony without at least acknowledging this gap in his candidacy. When you’re choosing between the very best players in the league, every factor counts, including missed games. Only one player has ever won the MVP playing in so low a percentage of his team’s games: Bill Walton, who played just 58 of 82 games for the 1977-78 Blazers.
2. “If you were to take Anthony off the Knicks, they are a lottery team.”
You have to prove this statement, or at least try to. It does not simply become true when written. It took a measly 38 wins to make the playoffs this season in the Eastern Conference. The Knicks outscored opponents by 6.2 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the court this season and 3.2 points per 100 possessions with Anthony on the bench, per NBA.com.
That’s a very meaningful gap. Anthony had a very good season, and I ranked him at no. 4 on my fake ballot — behind James, Kevin Durant, and Chris Paul. (I’d encourage you to read that if you, crazed New York fan, are taking this as some anti-Melo screed. I go on and on about Melo’s newfound efficiency and his foundational importance to New York’s small-ball identity.) But that plus-3.2 figure would still have ranked 10th among all NBA teams, and behind only Miami and Indiana in the Eastern Conference. It is the point differential of a very strong playoff team.
That alone does not disprove Washburn’s claim that New York would be in the lottery without Anthony. A good chunk of the non-Melo New York minutes, when the Knicks maintained that strong plus-3.2 scoring margin, came against opposing second units (or at least mixed starter/bench units), and it’s very possible New York would have suffered much more than these numbers indicate had Melo missed considerable time. Anthony’s longest continuous absences came in two three-game stretches during March, and the Knicks went 3-3 over those six games, with a one-point loss to the Thunder among the defeats.
Various iterations of the Knicks over the two seasons before this one showed they could survive at a .500 or better level without Anthony by shifting into a spread pick-and-roll attack. The Linsanity era coincided with Melo’s longest injury-related absence of his New York career, and the Knicks were famously 28-26 behind the Raymond Felton/Amar’e Stoudemire pick-and-roll before New York dealt for Anthony ahead of the 2011 trade deadline. That was among Stoudemire’s finest half-seasons, and it’s tempting to argue that the Knicks of today could not win that way with Stoudemire missing most of the season due to injuries. But these Knicks also have Tyson Chandler, one of the league’s very best pick-and-roll finishers, a dunk machine who sucks in opposing defenses and opens up perimeter looks for his shooters.
All of this gets into the realm of hypotheticals, and that’s sort of the point. We have no clue if New York would be a lottery team sans Anthony, and if you are going to posit they would be, you have to marshal at least some evidence. And the evidence we do have indicates they may well have been a solid no. 7 or no. 8 seed without him.
3. “If LeBron was taken away from the Heat, they still would be a fifth or sixth seed.”
Problem no. 1: We have no idea if this is actually true, in either direction. But get this: Miami outscored opponents by 14.1 points per 100 possessions with James on the floor and had a negative scoring margin when James hit the bench. That’s right: The mighty Heat got outscored when the world’s best player hit the bench.
This isn’t necessarily conclusive of anything, including that Miami would be an also-ran without James. Swap out James, and Miami would use its cap flexibility to snag an average player in his place, rejigger its rotation to include more Dwyane Wade/Chris Bosh minutes, and redesign its entire offense. But James is of bedrock importance to Miami in the same way Anthony is to New York, only he’s rather clearly better at every single aspect of basketball. Both enable their teams to play powerful small-ball lineups, but James is light years ahead of Melo as a passer and a defender.
Problem no. 2: Even if Miami would finish as a midtier playoff team without James, and not in the lottery, that is not evidence that James is somehow undeserving of the MVP. This is where the murky concept of value goes awry. Winning 66 games is extraordinarily difficult; only 13 teams have pulled it off in league history. Pushing a 48-win team to that historically elite level might be more difficult, and thus more valuable, than pushing a 40-win team to 50-plus wins. (The same might be true, by the way, for someone who pushes a 15-win team to 35 wins, even though said player would get zero consideration for the MVP.)
On a very basic level, the gap between the Heat and the no. 5 or no. 6 seed — the gap Washburn cites — was larger than the gap between the no. 2-seeded Knicks and the lottery. Miami won 21 more games than the fifth-seeded Bulls, and 22 more than the sixth-seeded Hawks, and they did so even while coasting through the last 10 games of the season. New York won “only” 16 games more than the eighth-seeded Bucks. The distance between “great” and “blah” may well be greater in this season, and in others, than the distance between “solid playoff team” and “lottery team.” Adding wins on the high end should count for just as much as adding wins on the low end, and if you care about such things, James led the league in every “wins”-related advanced stat I could find — win shares on Basketball-Reference.com, and both Value Added and Estimated Wins Added among the advanced John Hollinger stats.
Look, it’s no big deal in the scheme of life that James didn’t win unanimously. But I’ve yet to read any convincing evidence that he shouldn’t have done so.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t...mes-mvp-vote-and-debunking-the-myths-of-value
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Finally have my e-identity back.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
D
Deleted member 38182
Guest
Glad to see that avy backFinally have my e-identity back.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
I thought about changing my avy and sig to yours
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Damn!
How does this man have 271 posts in 5 and a half days?
And I thought I went hard posting on Niketalk sometimes
Dude is a loser who just sits at home and does nothing. Sometimes he'll ramble about the JJ Watt being a HOF'er and how the Rockets are underrated on Niketalk. Let's not forget the occasional Knicks hate he'll spew on S&T and mitigate the reason why people dislike him. Yeah, I'm talking to you MMG
Sheeeesh
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We are talking about during Jordan's championship runs. 91-98.
No one at the beginning of the season said Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing is better than Jordan and he's going to take over the crown as best player in the league.
No one
To say so is pure revisionist history
People write articles about Lebron and KD's rivalary and before that people wrote about his rivalry with Kobe.
People weren't writing articles about Jordan having a personal rival during those runs.
You ever hear the term this person is "Michael Jordan of Football, Golf etc etc"?
The reason why they'd say that is because Michael Jordan was so dominant it was just him alone as best player in sport for a long period of time.
No one is saying that about Lebron's recent dominance.
You say Im not objective
Dude you're not objective about your love of Lebron either
You're just smooth about your fandom of Lebron and all things Heat.
Listen dude, your not a fan of LeBron, I'm not a fan of LeBron. I still think he's a punk for going to Miami, I still think he took the easiest way out. I was campaigning for Chris Paul to be MVP in January/Feb. That changed tho.
But the difference between me and you is I'm not going to sit here an try to come up with a delusional reasons to why he isn't what he is. LeBron is the best player in the planet, he's becoming what Jordan was in the 90's. Once again, what I mean by that is - he's that much better than his competition.
Sure you can compare KD to LeBron, maybe one day he will be better, since he has more time left. But won't be anytime soon bro. That could be 4-5 years or more away.
But dude, you said Michael had no Rivals. How can anyone take you serious? You're not objective at all when it comes to LeBron. You stay here diminishing everything he does. Why can't you just accept it?
I never understood that about people who hate other players, you're disrespting the game if basketball if you just sit there, and diminish how great they are. That goes for the Kobe haters, LeBron haters, all the dudes who just can't accept someone's greatness. It amazes me.
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Now get past my name, its just a name, yes I like KD, but are you saying KD is more comparable to Melo than bron? If you are then thats about as stupid as skipping past my response to you because of my name...
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Glad to see that avy backFinally have my e-identity back.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
I thought about changing my avy and sig to yours
Glad to have it back.
@ you thinking of pulling an Anti.You should be happy you didn't, because i have some plans for retaliation coming up soon.
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Glad to see that avy backFinally have my e-identity back.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
I thought about changing my avy and sig to yours
Trollception
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Glad to see that avy backFinally have my e-identity back.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
I thought about changing my avy and sig to yours
Trollception
D
Deleted member 38182
Guest
would Anti be the one that trollcepted meTrollceptionGlad to see that avy backFinally have my e-identity back.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
I thought about changing my avy and sig to yours
Retaliation at me or AntiGlad to have it back.Glad to see that avy backFinally have my e-identity back.
That was a rough week on NT.
Anti, I'm comin for ya brah. Watch out.
I thought about changing my avy and sig to yours
@ you thinking of pulling an Anti.
You should be happy you didn't, because i have some plans for retaliation coming up soon.
plzzz not me! I love the Lakers!! Robert Horry and Derek Fisher are the best!!! **** the Queens!!!
that felt weird
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More built up LeBron-frustrations. Weirdos.
He'll give you a bad game this spring. I promise.
He'll give you a bad game this spring. I promise.
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2009/2010 Lakers are D Leaguers compared to the Heat? Jordan had no rivals? The f is going on in here
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Oh ight, gotcha, but KD has showed/is showing glimpses of doing it, Melo just cant do anything but score and get offensive rebounds.
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without MJ there is no lebron or kobe.
people really need to kick their own *** to understand this basic idea.
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