***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

not really, part of his appeal to his ardent supporters is da fact that he's a outsider who knows "all da tricks of da trade" da establishment uses to not only help da American people on his behalf, but to dismantle da intrenched insider dealings thats da status quo.

When has he helped anyone other than himself?

i guess employing tens of thousands of people and keeping a vibrant business that supports untold amount of families isnt altruistic ok i guess.

HOLD UP!!! Trump runs his businesses to be altruistic?

I thought it was to make money by meeting demand in the economy.

So that's why he robs so many of this other charities, had so many other failed businesses, and failed to pay so many contractors.

His hotels are just one big soap kitchen. , lets be real, he can't overdo it with the giving.

Your talking points running on E now

 

[rico x hood]

More like grapefruits and oranges.

The welfare state helps different people in different ways. It helped your *** get a guaranteed low interest loan when you most needed it. And part of your loans were subsidized so you didn't incur interest while in school. The government with tax revenue helped your *** too.

Hell it could be the reason you were even rented that lil struggle apartment in NoVa was because of anti-discrimination laws, which have to be enforced by DOJ lawyers, which cost money.

Dem roads you driving on, clean water you drink, cheap electricity you get, all government regulations and regulators salaries need to be paid (even by people that don't enjoy the service)

You're complaining about the government, progressive taxation, and ,social programs ; yet all that **** makes your life possible.

Da delusional hypocrisy

I got my apartment because my salary was good as was my credit. So don't try and diminish my progress just because you were priced out of the area Musty. And as I stated before I'm paying the government back. My conscience is clear in that regard. Roads and things of that nature I'm fine paying taxes on. I can see the return because I use them. But when my tax dollars disappear into other people's wallets and bank accountstatement never to be seen by me again, that's what I have an issue with.

 

[RustyShackleford]

More like grapefruits and oranges.

The welfare state helps different people in different ways. It helped your *** get a guaranteed low interest loan when you most needed it. And part of your loans were subsidized so you didn't incur interest while in school. The government with tax revenue helped your *** too.

Hell it could be the reason you were even rented that lil struggle apartment in NoVa was because of anti-discrimination laws, which have to be enforced by DOJ lawyers, which cost money.

Dem roads you driving on, clean water you drink, cheap electricity you get, all government regulations and regulators salaries need to be paid (even by people that don't enjoy the service)

You're complaining about the government, progressive taxation, and ,social programs ; yet all that **** makes your life possible.

Da delusional hypocrisy

I got my apartment because my salary was good as was my credit. So don't try and diminish my progress just because you were priced out of the area Musty. And as I stated before I'm paying the government back. My conscience is clear in that regard. Roads and things of that nature I'm fine paying taxes on. I can see the return because I use them. But when my tax dollars disappear into other people's wallets and bank accountstatement never to be seen by me again, that's what I have an issue with.

So when someone else paid for your student loan when they needed the money, they have a right to be pissed too?

 

[boris]

i guess employing tens of thousands of people and keeping a vibrant business that supports untold amount of families isnt altruistic

ok i guess.

I think you need to look up what the word altruistic means.

Also, I've asked this question several times now. If he's such a great businessman and cares about the middle class, why hasn't he been able to figure out how to bring good jobs back to the U.S.? Why does he find every opportunity to use foreign labor? 

 

[ninjahood]

its called fiduciary responsibility.

 

[SC kid]

Maaaaan lol

 

[rico x hood]

So when someone else paid for your student loan when they needed the money, they have a right to be pissed too?

So when someone else paid for your student loan when they needed the money, they have a right to be pissed too?

They absolutely do, if they were so inclined. Everyone has the right to be mad about where their tax dollars go. And if their like me they'd do anything they could to prevent more of their being taken and given to programs or people they don't support. It's all about protecting your self interests.

 

[boris]

its called fiduciary responsibility.

Oh, so you just accept what he says.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

He doesn't even pay all the people he employs.

What the **** is going on man how did we get to this point I'm legit dumbfounded.

 

[gry60]

Steady espousing unAmerican values and ideologies.

Taxation (with representation) is fundamental to American society and a cornerstone to how it's government functions.

Falsely claiming it is forced just shows how addled your mind must be. Go form your fictional societies elsewhere.

Part of our tax revenues go to fund social programs that I look at as charity. And I'm forced to pay them and it goes to other people and I don't like it. I've said it for years. The government is forcing me to be charitable.

The government is keeping society stable.

If that means forcing you - and everyone else - to be charitable, so be it.

Remember that in a capitalist society, there are far fewer wealthy people than middle class, working class, and poor people, and the only thing that ensures everyone gets along with one another is the fact that society is willing to meet the most necessary needs of the non-wealthy. Otherwise, you'd be living in a environment where people live behind 10-foot high fences with guard dogs and armed security, where crime is widespread and policing nonexistent, where kids have to sell trinkets on the side of the road at age 10 to eat instead of being in school, where the richest have water wells and small power generators in their backyards because electricity and water services are unreliable, where a benign infection is liable to kill you (especially as you reach your 50's and your body weakens)...

You know, your typical underdeveloped country.

 

[Belgium]

They absolutely do, if they were so inclined. Everyone has the right to be mad about where their tax dollars go. And if their like me they'd do anything they could to prevent more of their being taken and given to programs or people they don't support. It's all about protecting your self interests.

If everyone thought like you society would collapse. There's caring about how your tax dollars are used and then there's extreme-selfishness.

Society wouldn't be able to sustain itself if everyone employed the same attitude you have.

Nothing wrong with protecting your self interests, but your views are far beyond that.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

chubby aka male sarah palin has a long history of skirting the people he owes money to.

He's used chapter 11 bankruptcies like his own personal reset button.

 

[shogun]

I dunno why I watch any programs with douchebag trump supporters / campaign employees. They circle around so much when asked about the guy's jackass behavior and refuse to ever say yes he did something or they'll say it happened in the past and shouldn't matter or the left is making a big deal out of something. Don't treat people like they're dumb. It's better to admit to something than have a blatant liar continue to lie.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

its called fiduciary responsibility.

for personal income tax? cmon son.



FYI: I have no problem with Trump not paying income tax assuming he did so legally.


My question is Trump's theory of the economy includes massive tax cuts for the rich, given how many loop holes, and how he was able to avoid paying income tax so then why does trumps tax plan seem so tax cut focused?

 

[RIP sleazyy]

I dunno why I watch any programs with douchebag trump supporters / campaign employees. They circle around so much when asked about the guy's jackass behavior and refuse to ever say yes he did something or they'll say it happened in the past and shouldn't matter or the left is making a big deal out of something. Don't treat people like they're dumb. It's better to admit to something than have a blatant liar continue to lie.

They in too deep now. The ball of **** is rolling way too fast, and collecting more **** as it travels.

This mf skating taxes tombout making America great again and rebuilding infrastructure

 

[rexanglorum]

We must remember that for many conservatives "government," especially "Washington" or "the Federal Government" are all short hand for black and brown slush fund.

To many of our conservatives friends, subsidies and public goods such as The Military, the freeways, farm subsidies, disability checks, low interest student loans, low interest mortgages, Social Security and Medicare are all gifts from the Gods. Therefore, it is reasoned, all the money that is paid in taxes, especially Federal income taxes, is being diverted in order to subsidize the opulent lifestyle of black and brown folks in the inner city.

Donald Trump and the alt right have a belief in "starving the beast" that is the Federal Government. That why not paying any taxes is considered patriotic.

 

[Belgium]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but don't red states rely more on government aid than blue states?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

One of the worst outcomes of Trump and Bernies campaigns is they have made people obsessed with trade deals.


I don't think I've read a single compelling sentence on why anyone should really care about TPP.





or that NAFTA was particularly consequential positive or negatively.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but don't red states rely more on government aid than blue states?

The poorest, least educated states are the reddest.

 

[Chopper]

One of the worst outcomes of Trump and Bernies campaigns is they have made people obsessed with trade deals.

I don't think I've read a single compelling sentence on why anyone should really care about TPP.

or that NAFTA was particularly consequential positive or negatively.

TPP sucks cause it allows countries to sue each other for future "lost revenue" as a result of trade. That's one reason for you.

 

[Belgium]

One of the worst outcomes of Trump and Bernies campaigns is they have made people obsessed with trade deals.


I don't think I've read a single compelling sentence on why anyone should really care about TPP.





or that NAFTA was particularly consequential positive or negatively.

There's been some anti-TPP protests going on over here as well. In several EU countries, Belgium included. Nowhere near the massive scale of the anti-TTIP protests though.

 

[rexanglorum]

One of the worst outcomes of Trump and Bernies campaigns is they have made people obsessed with trade deals.


I don't think I've read a single compelling sentence on why anyone should really care about TPP.





or that NAFTA was particularly consequential positive or negatively.

First of all, there is big difference between Trump and Bernie on trade deals. Trump sees trade deals, not negotiated by Trump, as the primary cause of income inequality. Bernie Sanders talked about trade deals and how they have been part of a broader neoliberal agenda and the fact that Trade deals have been crafted with too much input from big business and not enough input from other American stakeholders in international trade.

As far as the TPP is concerned, it is not really about the movement of goods across international boundaries. The focus of the TPP is the fact that is a massive giveaway to big business, especially when it comes to patents and copyright laws being changed.

Most importantly, the TPP allows corporations to sue Federal, State and local government for any and all regulations that might harm their investments. Worst of all, those cases would be heard in private corporate courts that have binding jurisdiction on American citizens and American policy.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

First of all, there is big difference between Trump and Bernie on trade deals. Trump sees trade deals, not negotiated by Trump, as the primary cause of income inequality. Bernie Sanders talked about trade deals and how they have been part of a broader neoliberal agenda and the fact that Trade deals have been crafted with too much input from big business and not enough input from other American stakeholders in international trade.

As far as the TPP is concerned, it is not really about the movement of goods across international boundaries. The focus of the TPP is the fact that is a massive giveaway to big business, especially when it comes to patents and copyright laws being changed.

Most importantly, the TPP allows corporations to sue Federal, State and local government for any and all regulations that might harm their investments. Worst of all, those cases would be heard in private corporate courts that have binding jurisdiction on American citizens and American policy.

I didn't say they were the same, I'm just saying they have inspired a certain amount of irrationality amongst their supporters.

TPP sucks cause it allows countries to sue each other for future "lost revenue" as a result of trade. That's one reason for you.

as far as TPP from what I understand it gives corporations to sue if there investments are harmed in countries with less effective legal systems. If a country decides to bogard your brand new rubber insole factory, you can sure to prevent that from happening.

I don't see a problem, and most of the concerns seem to be of the fallacious "slippery slope" kind

even if some corporation did lose its mind and try to sue USA, TPP has no mechanism powerful enough to make America capitulate.


so who cares?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Who cares if local governments and state are can't pass laws in fear it will cost them millions, maybe even billions to institute it. Really?

I have criticized Bernie and Trump on their comments on trade in this thread. But it is just as irrational to speak about the consequences of a trade deal as "who cares". There needs to be a conversation in America about how our trade deals affect the economy, especially the labor market.

It is not a slippery slope to have the assumption that corporation will not abuse this system, and get lawsuit happy to engage in rent seeking behavior. It is not purely conjecture when history shows that is what will likely happen.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Who cares if local governments and state are can't pass laws in fear it will cost them millions, maybe even billions to institute it. Really?

I have criticized Bernie and Trump on their comments on trade in this thread. But it is just as irrational to speak about the consequences of a trade deal as "who cares"

It is not a slippery slope to have the assumption that corporation will not abuse this system, and get lawsuit happy to engage in rent seeking behavior. It is not purely conjecture when history shows that is what will likely happen.

I didn't say there was zero potential for abuse, but that's why you have judges in place to insure claims are legitimate.

and even if there is abuse it's certainly not going to effect America.


also the ability to sue from what I understand isn't new rather, exists in other trade deals TPP would mostly be streamlining these process.





look all in all TPP, aint something that the average american should be concerned with. let alone making their choice of president based on it.