***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[brova]

I'm learning tons of stuff in this thread.  I was never really a politcal person but hearing different perspectives about politics especially in today's world is quite informative.  Question for NT heads who are experts on this subject:  I always hear people talk about a need for social services reform, how is it that illegal immigrants bennefit from social services if they aren't registered citizens?  I read that if they have children on American soil their children can reap the bennefits, but how can you use social services for your american citizen children if you aren't registered yourself?

Sorry for being long winded

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'm learning tons of stuff in this thread.  I was never really a politcal person but hearing different perspectives about politics especially in today's world is quite informative.  Question for NT heads who are experts on this subject:  I always hear people talk about a need for social services reform, how is it that illegal immigrants bennefit from social services if they aren't registered citizens?  I read that if they have children on American soil their children can reap the bennefits, but how can you use social services for your american citizen children if you aren't registered yourself?

Sorry for being long winded

You gonna have to specificity which "social services" and what "benefit" they get from having citizen children.

Your question is too vague

 

[brova]

Healthcare, public assistance or any other benefits that you need a legal guardian to use.  For example, if an illegal immigrant wanted to get their child that was born on american soil healthcare through public assistance don't they have to put their(the parent/legal guardian) information down stating that they are the guardian/illegal?  Wouldn't that get flagged somehow? 

 

[kix4kix]

No they are not. Food stamps are a free hand out with no expectation to repay. Subsidized loans still have to be repayed and with interest unless somehow as soon as you graduated youa re able to pay off the entire amount still you are paying back the principal for food stamps you repay NOTHING.
THE GOVT will more than make back the money they loaned me by the time i pay off the loans what does the govt get back from the money given out for food stamps?
That being said I am not opposed to food stamps at all i think many people wind up in positions where they need them but the comparison to student loans is far from equatable

And what does the government get back in regard to the estate tax policy we have here in the us? I can assure you the losses are far more than 'free food stamps'

 

[essential1]

I'm learning tons of stuff in this thread.  I was never really a politcal person but hearing different perspectives about politics especially in today's world is quite informative.  Question for NT heads who are experts on this subject:  I always hear people talk about a need for social services reform, how is it that illegal immigrants bennefit from social services if they aren't registered citizens?  I read that if they have children on American soil their children can reap the bennefits, but how can you use social services for your american citizen children if you aren't registered yourself?

Sorry for being long winded

14th Amendment + US v. Wong Kim Ark set up anyone born on US soil (including overseas territories i.e. Military Bases) is an American citizen regardless of their parents' citizenship. Also anyone born anywhere in the world to American citizens are still American Citizens.

And if the child is a citizen, the government is obligated to provide assistance to those in need.

Also the government really doesn't deport parents of children who are American citizens. Would not look too good. It happens, but not that often as other deportations. So it makes more reason to give assistance.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Healthcare, public assistance or any other benefits that you need a legal guardian to use.  For example, if an illegal immigrant wanted to get their child that was born on american soil healthcare through public assistance don't they have to put their(the parent/legal guardian) information down stating that they are the guardian/illegal?  Wouldn't that get flagged somehow? 

The child is a citizen, if he is getting the health care it is the child not the illegal parent getting the benefit.

Cases like these are not often reported to INS because it is a bad look to potentially break up families, and it is for a citizen

If a illegal immigrant wanted public assistance he would have to prove his legal residence in the USA. If he can't, of turns in a application that blatantly says they he is illegal, INS is usually called.

But anyway, in situation where illegal immigrants have citizen child, it is the kid get benefits from the government usually, not the parent.

 

[Nike Jordan]

INS was dissolved in 2003.

 

[brova]

14th Amendment + US v. Wong Kim Ark set up anyone born on US soil (including overseas territories i.e. Military Bases) is an American citizen regardless of their parents' citizenship. Also anyone born anywhere in the world to American citizens are still American Citizens.
And if the child is a citizen, the government is obligated to provide assistance to those in need.
Also the government really doesn't deport parents of children who are American citizens. Would not look too good. It happens, but not that often as other deportations. So it makes more reason to give assistance.

So pretty much get here the best way you know how, pop a kid or two, get them taken care of through public assistance and you're good?  No need to go through the process of getting registered as a US citizen? 

Thanks for the response by the way.

 

[brova]

The child is a citizen, if he is getting the health care it is the child not the illegal parent getting the benefit.
Cases like these are not often reported to INS because it is a bad look to potentially break up families, and it is for a citizen
If a illegal immigrant wanted public assistance he would have to prove his legal residence in the USA. If he can't, of turns in a application that blatantly says they he is illegal, INS is usually called.
But anyway, in situation where illegal immigrants have citizen child, it is the kid get benefits from the government usually, not the parent.

Not breaking up families is a good look, I didn't think about it from this angle.  Thanks for your response and insight.

 

[essential1]

14th Amendment + US v. Wong Kim Ark set up anyone born on US soil (including overseas territories i.e. Military Bases) is an American citizen regardless of their parents' citizenship. Also anyone born anywhere in the world to American citizens are still American Citizens.

And if the child is a citizen, the government is obligated to provide assistance to those in need.

Also the government really doesn't deport parents of children who are American citizens. Would not look too good. It happens, but not that often as other deportations. So it makes more reason to give assistance.

So pretty much get here the best way you know how, pop a kid or two, get them taken care of through public assistance and you're good?  No need to go through the process of getting registered as a US citizen? 

Thanks for the response by the way.

It's not that simple. Nor as "despicable" as many make it sound.

Most illegal immigrants who are here, hold jobs. Yet they are not the most legit jobs, (not that the job is illegal) but the pay is awful..

It is something that our society is a double edge sword about. We can't say "Give me your tired, your poor, huddled masses yearning to breath free" then say "Screw the illegals." That is why it is such a blurred line. It's not deport everyone, and it's not just give 'em free money. It's extremely complicated.

 

[RustyShackleford]

So pretty much get here the best way you know how, pop a kid or two, get them taken care of through public assistance and you're good?  No need to go through the process of getting registered as a US citizen? 

Thanks for the response by the way.

Actually it is not that simple

Illegal immigrants can't get welfare, food stamps or Medicaid. All the "benefits" they get from the government benefit the citizen child directly. They have kids there because (1) Well people have kids, it happens (2) They want their children to have the chance of a better life so if a couple is planning on having kids, they try to make sure it is born a citizen

Rich people from other countries do the same thing. Americans go to other countries and do the same thing too

People who usually have babies and live off the government are usually, almost always, American citizens

-Now if we're talking about illegals using public resources yet not paying taxes to support them. Them that's an entirely separate issue

But like Essential said, Americans can't act like illegals are some parasite leeching of the system and not look like a hypocrites. This is one problem where the discussion should be geared toward solutions and not placing blame

 

[deuce king]

14th Amendment + US v. Wong Kim Ark set up anyone born on US soil (including overseas territories i.e. Military Bases) is an American citizen regardless of their parents' citizenship. Also anyone born anywhere in the world to American citizens are still American Citizens.
And if the child is a citizen, the government is obligated to provide assistance to those in need.
Also the government really doesn't deport parents of children who are American citizens. Would not look too good. It happens, but not that often as other deportations. So it makes more reason to give assistance.

So pretty much get here the best way you know how, pop a kid or two, get them taken care of through public assistance and you're good?   No need to go through the process of getting registered as a US citizen? 

Thanks for the response by the way.

Depends on what your definition is when you say "taken care of" and to what extent.  Yes they get public assistance but the degree of that public assisttance to what most people think it is versus what it actually is, is very different. 

 

[essential1]

They pulled the plug on this interview as fast as possible

 

[deuce king]

They pulled the plug on this interview as fast as possible

Fox was "aight that's enough of this"

 

[cj863]

They pulled the plug on this interview as fast as possible

told it straight up like it is.

 

[ccastro02]

lmfaoo at the interview

 

[picknroll24]

that opening statement ether

 

[Nike Jordan]

They pulled the plug on this interview as fast as possible

 

[i lax bro]

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) isn't qualified to answer a question about how old the earth is, he told GQ in a recent interview.

But Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.) provided a more concrete answer on the question during an event earlier this year, happily stating his belief that the earth was only 9,000 years old.
This is coming from the Supposed new leader of th GOP. If he doesn't even have the guts to say the earth is older than 6000 years old, will anything really change?
GOP is already moving away from that junk they talked about learning anything from the election. The "fiscal cliff" talks don't sound like they are going well, they are stating that there is no mandate for Obama whatsoever, and basically parading around darker skinned men with the same views
I also find it embarrassing that the meeting about the "fiscal cliff" took an HOUR. That's it. A ******g hour. Then they could smile for photo ops. Both sides should be locked in a room for a week and be forced to figure it out

Rolling the clock back, using the historical record, we can see how now-President Obama responded to the age-of-the-earth question. Speaking to the Compassion Forum at Grantham, Pennsylvania’s Messiah College, in 2008, Obama said:

"What I’ve said to [my daughters] is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe. I know there’s always a debate between those who read the Bible literally and those who don’t, and that I think is a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I’m a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live – that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible: That, I don’t presume to know."

Wait wut? Brb obama saying the exact same thing and yet liberals bash Rubio later on


Anyways, nothing is going to get done in America, people these days don't believe in hard work, and look for hand outs instead.... Im not studying my mind off at school for nothing...

 

[Nike Jordan]

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) isn't qualified to answer a question about how old the earth is, he told GQ in a recent interview.

But Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.) provided a more concrete answer on the question during an event earlier this year, happily stating his belief that the earth was only 9,000 years old.
This is coming from the Supposed new leader of th GOP. If he doesn't even have the guts to say the earth is older than 6000 years old, will anything really change?
GOP is already moving away from that junk they talked about learning anything from the election. The "fiscal cliff" talks don't sound like they are going well, they are stating that there is no mandate for Obama whatsoever, and basically parading around darker skinned men with the same views
I also find it embarrassing that the meeting about the "fiscal cliff" took an HOUR. That's it. A ******g hour. Then they could smile for photo ops. Both sides should be locked in a room for a week and be forced to figure it out

Rolling the clock back, using the historical record, we can see how now-President Obama responded to the age-of-the-earth question. Speaking to the Compassion Forum at Grantham, Pennsylvania’s Messiah College, in 2008, Obama said:

"What I’ve said to [my daughters] is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe. I know there’s always a debate between those who read the Bible literally and those who don’t, and that I think is a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I’m a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live – that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible: That, I don’t presume to know."

Wait wut? Brb obama saying the exact same thing and yet liberals bash Rubio later on


Anyways, nothing is going to get done in America, people these days don't believe in hard work, and look for hand outs instead.... Im not studying my mind off at school for nothing...

Obama won.

Deal with it, sore loser.

 

[essential1]

Anyways, nothing is going to get done in America, people these days don't believe in hard work, and look for hand outs instead.... Im not studying my mind off at school for nothing...

People don't believe in Hard Work now..

#ThatBubble

I guess school can't teach you everything.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Anyways, nothing is going to get done in America, people these days don't believe in hard work, and look for hand outs instead.... Im not studying my mind off at school for nothing...

 

[createdestroy]

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) isn't qualified to answer a question about how old the earth is, he told GQ in a recent interview.

But Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.) provided a more concrete answer on the question during an event earlier this year, happily stating his belief that the earth was only 9,000 years old.

Rolling the clock back, using the historical record, we can see how now-President Obama responded to the age-of-the-earth question. Speaking to the Compassion Forum at Grantham, Pennsylvania’s Messiah College, in 2008, Obama said:

"What I’ve said to [my daughters] is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe. I know there’s always a debate between those who read the Bible literally and those who don’t, and that I think is a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I’m a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live – that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible: That, I don’t presume to know."

Wait wut? Brb obama saying the exact same thing and yet liberals bash Rubio later on


Anyways, nothing is going to get done in America, people these days don't believe in hard work, and look for hand outs instead.... Im not studying my mind off at school for nothing...

COMPLETELY different answers......

 

[essential1]

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) isn't qualified to answer a question about how old the earth is, he told GQ in a recent interview.

But Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.) provided a more concrete answer on the question during an event earlier this year, happily stating his belief that the earth was only 9,000 years old.

Rolling the clock back, using the historical record, we can see how now-President Obama responded to the age-of-the-earth question. Speaking to the Compassion Forum at Grantham, Pennsylvania’s Messiah College, in 2008, Obama said:

"What I’ve said to [my daughters] is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it . . . it may not be 24-hour days, and that’s what I believe. I know there’s always a debate between those who read the Bible literally and those who don’t, and that I think is a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I’m a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live – that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible: That, I don’t presume to know."

Wait wut? Brb obama saying the exact same thing and yet liberals bash Rubio later on


Anyways, nothing is going to get done in America, people these days don't believe in hard work, and look for hand outs instead.... Im not studying my mind off at school for nothing...

COMPLETELY different answers......

And they are completely different answers.. Because they were asked completely different questions.

Obama's question: Senator, if one of your daughters asked you -- and maybe they already have -- "Daddy, did God really create the world in six days?," what would you say?

Rubio's question: How old do you think the Earth is?


I don't go to school for nothing

 

[createdestroy]

And they are completely different answers.. Because they were asked completely different questions.

[quote name="Essential1"]

Wait wut? Brb obama saying the exact same thing and yet liberals bash Rubio later on[/quote]

Are you arguing against me or yourself?