IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

SneakerPro said:

There was a reason in 05-06 you had three players average over 31 points a game for the first time in 20 years.

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because 3 of the best offensive players the NBA's ever seen were playing on ****** teams and had to dominate the ball?

MertonHanks said:

Kobe struggled against those Pistons and both Celtics defenses. Its not about intimidation.

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It's call good team defense. Ain't no single Celtic or Piston defender can stop Kobe.

The other dude said physical defense is going to make Kobe struggle. No it's the good help defense and good team defense that can stop Kobe.

Hand checking is overrated. Hand checking does not mean impede progress nor pushing. Kobe is 6'6, ain't no handchecking is going to slow down a guy who is that big and that quick.

But i have to give credit to the Piston good team defense on Kobe. The Piston in 04 was a great defensive team overall. They had stretches where they held opposing team to below 70 points for like 6 or 7 games in a row.

Til this day i still think 04 Piston and 08 Celtics are better than most of the team MJ played in his Finals

Kobe and Lebron could have averaged 30 a game in any era of basketball.  How many players in history have their offensive skill sets?

Sidebar.

The three happiest moments of my sports' life.

1. The Mavs Championship in 2011.

2. Texas winning the 2006 Rose Bowl.

3. The Pistons beating the Lakers in 2004. Only player I disliked more than Kobe in NBA history is Karl Malone. I couldn't handle him winning a championship. Him joining the Lakers was the equivalent of.....well I can't think of an equivalent because I hate the Lakers more than any team in Sports, plus I was in Michigan during it.

These three things are the only Sports Illustrated covers I have.

Ain't no handchecking is going to slow down a guy like Lebron or Kobe or even Melo.

Hand checking might work on little guards like Steve Nash or AI but not big guard like Kobe or Lebron Melo etc.

HAHAHAHA @ the notion that kobe is overrated. lebron = best athlete & 2nd best bball player in the nba, kobe = best basketball player in NBA. yah i got my flamesuit on, come @ me broz

Nako XL said:

SneakerPro said:

There was a reason in 05-06 you had three players average over 31 points a game for the first time in 20 years.

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because 3 of the best offensive players the NBA's ever seen were playing on ****** teams and had to dominate the ball?

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Naw the Spurs and Pistons had just won the previous two championships. The NBA basically made it impossible to play defense that year with how they called the games.

The same way those three dudes averaged so many point PPG is the same way D. Wade and Dirk got to the Finals.

I could be wrong but I think Dirk and D.Wade shot the most free throws of any two players in a single playoff run that year in the history of the NBA.

Of course D. Wade got to shoot a few more and the rest was history.

^ Definitely truth in all of that.

ACBboyz84 said:

It's call good team defense. Ain't no single Celtic or Piston defender can stop Kobe.

The other dude said physical defense is going to make Kobe struggle. No it's the good help defense and good team defense that can stop Kobe.

Hand checking is overrated. Hand checking does not mean impede progress nor pushing. Kobe is 6'6, ain't no handchecking is going to slow down a guy who is that big and that quick.

But i have to give credit to the Piston good team defense on Kobe. The Piston in 04 was a great defensive team overall. They had stretches where they held opposing team to below 70 points for like 6 or 7 games in a row.

Til this day i still think 04 Piston and 08 Celtics are better than most of the team MJ played in his Finals

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That Pistons and Celtics squad were both great defenses, and were both very physical. You cant say that had no toll on Kobe when he was taking tough contested outside jumpers and shooting low percentages. They were physical, got in his face, and the help was always there. Of course no one defender was going to shut Kobe down.

On another note, I've actually agreed with the majority of your last handful of posts. Might've even repped a post or two. ACB, that really you behind the keyboard?

DarthSka said:

Kobe never had that. He never had that time where he was THE MAN, either 'The Man' of the league, or THE SINGLE DOMINANT FORCE in a Finals, or anything. He's had little stretches... but they were just in scoring, nothing else. That stretch where he went bananas w/ the 40/50/60 point streaks, the 81 pt game... an excellent scoring run, but it didn't shut everyone else in the league down and catapult him to the front of everyone's mind the way other greats have done. And being the opening topic on SportsCenter is not being catapulted to the front of everyone's mind.

He's never 'owned' any part of the game, to where... he was... IT.

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THANK YOU.

The sad part is that he's went to more NBA Finals than almost everyone you mentioned, if not everyone.

I always say this:

I've seen Hakeem dominate an NBA Finals.

I've seen Mike dominate an NBA Finals.

I've seen Shaq dominate an NBA Finals.

I've seen Wade dominate an NBA Finals.

I've seen LeBron dominate an NBA Finals.

I've seen Duncan dominate an NBA Finals.

Kobe Bryant has been to more Finals than all those guys, and he's never dominated a Finals. At all. I would have maybe even given him an exception had he showed up in game 7 in 2010... but he didn't.

Until he dominates an NBA Finals, I will always place him in the category of guys like Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Dirk Nowitzki etc rather than the category of players above... guys that won Finals' MVP's because they were on a great team, not because of individual dominance.

Dudes stay crapping on LeBron and say he isn't clutch or doesn't show up in the playoffs.

The funny thing is that if you were to take LeBron's 2012 playoff run and compare it to Kobe Bryant's entire playoff career... and I told you to pick out the 3 best performances of all those games... they would all belong to LeBron. LeBron had 3 playoff games last year alone that were better than any playoff performace Kobe has ever had in his 16 seasons. I won't even talk about the Detroit game.

sorianotron said:

how you overrated when you didnt even come into this league as a starter?

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What the hell kind of logic is this?

Originally Posted by XX HPDV III  

The funny thing is that if you were to take LeBron's 2012 playoff run and compare it to Kobe Bryant's entire playoff career... and I told you to pick out the 3 best performances of all those games... they would all belong to LeBron. LeBron had 3 playoff games last year alone that were better than any playoff performace Kobe has ever had in his 16 seasons. I won't even talk about the Detroit game.

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Ska, I'm sorry, but dude stop talking out of your ***.

ACBboyz84 said:

So a guy who's capable of putting up 40, 50, 60 even 81 points shouldnt be a number one scoring option?
Answer this question

How come no team pay JR smith to be their go to guy?

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I don't care how many points he puts up at 45%.

45% is not a good shooting percentage. If an entire team shoots 45% for the season, they will only be good if they have an excellent defense.

As for JR... what is your point? I said he's a middle-class man's Kobe + he's never had a great coach.

I don't care what salary people make. You think that because Kobe get's $30M next year... that defines his offensive ability?

Kobe Bryant's actual on-court abilities do not warrant a salary of more than $14-15 million.

The fact that he's on the most popular franchise in the NBA which also possesses the most brainwashed fans... that is why he gets $30M. The Lakers will make that money back from a business prospective... but a player's salary does not translate to on-court abilities.

If 45% isnt good for a perimeter player you dont know or watch basketball

Nako XL said:

Since some of you guys love to quote them and get mad when people

at them as a source

He also averaged 5 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals a game and was all nba first team and all defensive first team, won western conference player of the month twice (the only player to do that), but finished 4th in MVP voting (entirely because of his teams record.)  Steve Nash didn't win player of the month once.  Not once.  No other player in the league won it twice.

"But he shot them out of games!  The Lakers always lost when Kobe played Kobe ball! They would have won many more handily without him shooting the way he did!"

He scored 65 points on 23 for 39 shooting to steal a 5 pt win against Portland in a game that the rest of his team did their darndest to lose.  the second leading scorer in that game was Lamar Odom with 15 on 7 for 14 shooting and Mo Evans (

) 95% of people in this thread probably don't even remember who Maurice Evans is.


"But they were a 7th seed!"

Yes.  A team that boasted a starting line up of Lamar Odom, Brian Cooke (alternating with Luke), Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker was a SEVENTH SEED.  Let that sink in.

Of the players on that roster besides Kobe, only 5 are still in the league: Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, Rony Turiaf, Brian Cooke and Luke Walton

"But they lost to Phoenix in the first round. And it was entirely Kobe's fault."

Kobe averaged 28 pts, 6 rbnds, 5 asts, on 50% shooting that series.  While only attempting 20 shots a game.

The second leading scorer was Lamar Odom who had a great series averaging 19 pts, 11 rbnds, 5 asts on 50% shooting, then Luke Walton and Kwame Brown with 12 a piece.

In game 6 of that series, Kobe had 50 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals.  Lamar added 22. Tim Thomas dropped 21 off the bench.  That was the difference in the game.  That is not Kobe's man.

In game 7 Kobe had 24 points again on 50% shooting.  Lamar had 12 pts 5 rebounds on 5 for 14 shooting.  Luke stepped up with 16, surprisingly.  The rest of the team had 38 points.  COMBINED.  38.

Leandro Barbosa alone for Phoenix came off the bench with 26.

"But they should have never been in a position to lose that series!!!"

Kobe shot a team that would have won the lottery without him into a near upset of the the #2 seed in the West that was led by the MVP Steve Nash.

In game 5 (what could have been the decisive victory for the lakers in that series) Kobe put up 29 pts 7 rebounds 5 assists on 60% shooting.  Lamar again showed up with 19pts 15 rbnds on 50% shooting himself (though a bit of that came in garbage time.)  No one else even suited up unless you count Kwame Brown who had 14 points and 3 rebounds.  The lakers lost by 17.

But before any of you can say it, "yeah, their problems in 2006, were Kobe's fault."

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What is your point? Wanna talk about how he missed the series-clinching shot in game 6?

It's funny how much press this series gets. Oh wow, the guy actually had a good shooting percentage in one damn playoff series. Want me to name all his pathetic playoff series?

You really just cited one series and a regular season game or two, and you think that is supposed to be a strong argument?

Then you state how many times he won Western Conference Player Of The Month that season?

Do you Kobe Stans ever draw a line of shame as to where "I'm not going to cross this line to glorify Kobe Bryant because it's just shameful" ?

"He won Western Conference Player Of The Month twice that season, no other player did it." Wow.

Just off both of their first finals series as "the man" on their teams:

Kobe averaged 32.4 points, 7.4 assists, 5.6 rebounds against Orlando.

Lebron averaged 28.6 ppg, 10.2 rebounds, 7.4 assists last year against OKC.

Kobe went for 40, 8, and 8 in game 1.

Lebron never scored more than 32 and in that game had 8 and 5.

But yeah, his series last year had 3 better games than Kobe's had in a finals in his entire career.

Dude stop trolling this thread. You're not gaining points from anyone.

Also there are a good amount of teams shhooting 44 to 46 %

hypebeast5 said:

If 45% isnt good for a perimeter player you dont know or watch basketball

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QFT. So you expect outside shooters to shoot 12/18? Even the best big men don't hit 60%

For reference: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fg_pct_career.html

'01 WCF

48 points (15-29), 16 rebounds

XX HPDV III said:

Nako XL said:

Since some of you guys love to quote them and get mad when people

at them as a source

He also averaged 5 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals a game and was all nba first team and all defensive first team, won western conference player of the month twice (the only player to do that), but finished 4th in MVP voting (entirely because of his teams record.)  Steve Nash didn't win player of the month once.  Not once.  No other player in the league won it twice.

"But he shot them out of games!  The Lakers always lost when Kobe played Kobe ball! They would have won many more handily without him shooting the way he did!"

He scored 65 points on 23 for 39 shooting to steal a 5 pt win against Portland in a game that the rest of his team did their darndest to lose.  the second leading scorer in that game was Lamar Odom with 15 on 7 for 14 shooting and Mo Evans (

) 95% of people in this thread probably don't even remember who Maurice Evans is.


"But they were a 7th seed!"

Yes.  A team that boasted a starting line up of Lamar Odom, Brian Cooke (alternating with Luke), Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker was a SEVENTH SEED.  Let that sink in.

Of the players on that roster besides Kobe, only 5 are still in the league: Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, Rony Turiaf, Brian Cooke and Luke Walton

"But they lost to Phoenix in the first round. And it was entirely Kobe's fault."

Kobe averaged 28 pts, 6 rbnds, 5 asts, on 50% shooting that series.  While only attempting 20 shots a game.

The second leading scorer was Lamar Odom who had a great series averaging 19 pts, 11 rbnds, 5 asts on 50% shooting, then Luke Walton and Kwame Brown with 12 a piece.

In game 6 of that series, Kobe had 50 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals.  Lamar added 22. Tim Thomas dropped 21 off the bench.  That was the difference in the game.  That is not Kobe's man.

In game 7 Kobe had 24 points again on 50% shooting.  Lamar had 12 pts 5 rebounds on 5 for 14 shooting.  Luke stepped up with 16, surprisingly.  The rest of the team had 38 points.  COMBINED.  38.

Leandro Barbosa alone for Phoenix came off the bench with 26.

"But they should have never been in a position to lose that series!!!"

Kobe shot a team that would have won the lottery without him into a near upset of the the #2 seed in the West that was led by the MVP Steve Nash.

In game 5 (what could have been the decisive victory for the lakers in that series) Kobe put up 29 pts 7 rebounds 5 assists on 60% shooting.  Lamar again showed up with 19pts 15 rbnds on 50% shooting himself (though a bit of that came in garbage time.)  No one else even suited up unless you count Kwame Brown who had 14 points and 3 rebounds.  The lakers lost by 17.

But before any of you can say it, "yeah, their problems in 2006, were Kobe's fault."

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What is your point? Wanna talk about how he missed the series-clinching shot in game 6?

It's funny how much press this series gets. Oh wow, the guy actually had a good shooting percentage in one damn playoff series. Want me to name all his pathetic playoff series?

You really just cited one series and a regular season game or two, and you think that is supposed to be a strong argument?

Then you state how many times he won Western Conference Player Of The Month that season?

Do you Kobe Stans ever draw a line of shame as to where "I'm not going to cross this line to glorify Kobe Bryant because it's just shameful" ?

"He won Western Conference Player Of The Month twice that season, no other player did it."

Wow.

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In game 6 he had 50.  he missed the series clinching shot after dropping 50.

we discussed the series because it's arguably his best season ever.  In the discussion for his top 3.

I mentioned player of the month because he dominated offensively that year.

i'm tired of you.

Game 6 is a bit diff. He had 38, LA needed ONE stop, Marion missed but LA couldn't grab the rebound and Tim Thomas tied the game. Horrible luck.

Kobe missed the potential game winner and in OT scored 12 to reach 50, but the Suns went nuts in OT, the series had turned and was the pace they loved rather than the slow grinding game LA played the first 4 games.

Nako XL said:

And before anyone says I can think of better modern offensive seasons by shooting guards, for instance "Jordan had better seasons in 88 and 89" I'm just gonna yell at the top of my lungs "Jordan never faced the zone and he couldn't shoot!!!" and run out of the room.

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Once again, why do you insist on narrowing it down to "shooting guards." You're just trying to be strategic to eliminate other players that are also perimeter-orientated. Stop trying to use deceiving tactics to glorify Kobe Bryant. It's funny how you pointed out his 50% and 60% shooting games in the Phoenix series, and then tried keep his 45% season shooting on the low-low.

I don't care how many points a player scores at 45% shooting. There is nothing impressive about it.

Jordan scored 35 ppg on 53.5% shooting.

And even if you wanna play the "shooting guard" game:

As far as I'm concerned, D-Wade's 08-09 season was A LOT more impressive than Bean's 05-06 season. He scored 30 ppg on 49% shooting along with 7.5 assists and 5 rebounds. He took 5 less shots per game. He also took his team to a 7th game elimination. He took his team to a 5-seed. You think Kobe Bryant had a bad roster in 2006?

Udonis Haslem

James Jones

Mario Chalmers (rookie)

Jermaine O'Neal

Daequan Cook

Jamario Moon

Jamal Magloire

Michael Beasley (rookie)

But go ahead and try to convince us that shooting 5 more shots per game to obtain 5 more points per game is impressive.

Let's not even talk about the fact that Wade average 7.5 assists vs. Bean's 4.5 in 2006.

Wanna talk about how D-Wade had 3 times as many blocks vs. Bean?

Wanna talk about how D-Wade averaged 2.2 steals to Bean's 1.8?

Of course you don't. Because, in vintage Bean Stan fashion, you try to glorify Bean's 05-06 season (just like his career) by pointing to ONE stat: points per game.

That season is the story of his career; a lot of shot attempts, a lot of points, an enormous amount of misses... and 45% shooting.

If anyone thinks that Kobe Bryant's 2006 season was better than D-Wades 2009 season, just stop replying to this thread and go read a book.

You're trying to sit here and glorify Kobe Bryant's slightly above average season and then try to justify that he had no help in the playoffs. Did you ever stop for a second to think that if he didn't take 27 shots per game during that season, that maybe the team would have formed a system that would have helped them win one of those 3 straight games they lost after being up 3-1?

You try to sit here and glorify Kobe Bryant's slightly above average season by using slick verbiage ("shooting guard") knowing damn well that using that verbiage will eliminate people from bringing up other perimeter players that have the same role as a shooting guard (LeBron, T-Mac, Melo).

I'm not gonna sit here and go through the numbers of T-Mac's 2002-2003 season and show you why his season was equal to or greater than Beans 2005-2006 season.

Hilarious. You tried to use strategic language to tell us how no player  ("shooting guard") has had a season as good as Bean's 2005-2006 season, and I still busted your balls.

But go ahead and ignore the facts and continue to glorify Kobe "RoBean" Bryant amongst your Lakers' faithful.

ACBboyz84 said:

No physical defend could intimidate Kobe.

The Piston simply played better team defense and offense.

Watch the games.

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You think Kobe Bryant would survive in 80's or 90's basketball?

Half of his arsenal relies upon crying to the refs for phantom fouls.

The players from that era would literally have knocked his teeth out for performing those female tactics.

XX HPDV III said:

You think Kobe Bryant would survive in 80's or 90's basketball?


Half of his arsenal relies upon crying to the refs for phantom fouls.

The players from that era would literally have knocked his teeth out for performing those female tactics.

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Little boy we aren't in 80's and 90's basketball so get your mind out the gutter .

Okay bye .

Nako XL said:

Ska, I'm sorry, but dude stop talking out of your ***.

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Must-win game vs. Indiana: 40, 18 & 9 on 14/27 shooting.

Must-win game vs. Boston: 45, 15 & 5 on 19/26 shooting.

Finals clincher: 26, 11 & 13

Show me when Bean Bryant had performances that great, given the circumstances.

Or just call me a troll because you have no rebuttal.