Why is Jerry Rice the GOAT?

MertonHanks said:
Ahh the good ol fashion I only look at stats argument. Calvin might be puttin up yardage this season, but its far from his most consistent season. Hes third in the league with 8 dropped passes this season. Hes obviously better than Andre now, but Andre in his prime was better than Calvin is right now. Thats not to say Calvin wont get better.
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Your wrong and stats might not be the complete way to judge a receiver but it is the majority along with how opposing defenses have to change their coverages to deal with such receiver. Anyways, this isn't the thread to further discuss this argument, this thread should be left to talk about Jerry the GOAT.
 
it'd be nice if calvin gets a QB that's worth the charmin he wipes his *** with
 
RyGuy45 said:
Is it the stats that make the final decision?
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Pretty much in this case. Stats aren't everything but when you are so far ahead in many categories it typically locks it down.

Still, you could say Jim Brown, etc are "GOAT"

But in Rice's case these are some of his leader lists:

Receptions, Career
1,549 - Jerry Rice
1,222 - Tony Gonzalez
1,102 - Marvin Harrison

Receiving Yards, Career
22,895 - Jerry Rice
15,934 - Terrell Owens
15,208 - Isaac Bruce

Receiving Touchdowns, Career
197 - Jerry Rice
155 - Randy Moss
153 - Terrell Owens

Post Season Receiving Yards, Career
2,245 - Jerry Rice
1,315 - Michael Irvin
1,289 - Cliff Branch

Post Season Receiving Touchdowns, Career
22 - Jerry Rice
12 - John Stallworth
10 - 4 others

Post Season Receptions, Career
151 - Jerry Rice
88 - Hines Ward
87 - Michael Irvin


:smh:
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Thank you sir. I mean this shouldn't be a thread. It's understood. Hell, even the dudes retired and currently playing say he is the GOAT WR without blinking. Megatron is nice, but he has not shot catching #80. I seriously don't think anyone will catch a lot of his records :smh:. That first response was gold :lol:
 
This is why I kinda made the thread. Yesterday Fitzgerald had 1 reception for 2 yards. Should we base how talented he is by that?

I've got a better understanding of Rice now but I just wanted to see if stats were the outweighing factor that determined he was the GOAT cause again I haven't seen him play in his prime. I guess I can see why stats matter in Rice's case because they are just that damn impressive.

But I will still wonder if other names could have done the same if put in Rices situation with Montana, Young, and Gannon as your QB's. Rice is a lucky man for th chips to fall like that. That doesn't mean I'm not disputing Rice being the GOAT. I feel that I'm not in the position to take a stance on that, I can only go by what I have seen. Although... I know hypotheticals don't mean **** but you've gotta wonder what Moss's numbers would have looked like if he was in a similar situation as Rice and had Brady as his QB since 2000. But obviously we're not going to use a hypothetical as an argument. That's why I wanted to know if Jerry being the GOAT meant he really was the most talented or just very talented with the best numbers beause IMO in football stats don't tell the whole story especially at WR when you look at Fitzgeralds situation.
 
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Jay02 said:
This is why I kinda made the thread. Yesterday Fitzgerald had 1 reception for 2 yards. Should we base how talented he is by that?

I've got a better understanding of Rice now but I just wanted to see if stats were the outweighing factor that determined he was the GOAT cause again I haven't seen him play in his prime. I guess I can see why stats matter in Rice's case because they are just that damn impressive.

But I will still wonder if other names could have done the same if put in Rices situation with Montana, Young, and Gannon as your QB's. Rice is a lucky man for th chips to fall like that. That doesn't mean I'm not disputing Rice being the GOAT. I feel that I'm not in the position to take a stance on that, I can only go by what I have seen. Although... I know hypotheticals don't mean **** but you've gotta wonder what Moss's numbers would have looked like if he was in a similar situation as Rice and had Brady as his QB since 2000. But obviously we're not going to use a hypothetical as an argument. That's why I wanted to know if Jerry being the GOAT meant he really was the most talented or just very talented with the best numbers beause IMO in football stats don't tell the whole story especially at WR when you look at Fitzgeralds situation.
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Ok, addressing your first statement, you can't judge Fitzgerald by that one game. He has a terrible QB situation. Just imagine him having the Kurt Warner from the Rams, then he would do damage. Yes, Rice had HOF QB's, which played a part, but still he was better than his peers. And WR comp was way better than it is now. Randy Moss could have those numbers, at one point, he was on pace to catch him, but what caught up to him? his attitude. You might be too young to remember this, but the 1998 Vikings scored 556 points, the most by any team in NFL history in a regular season. To put it in even further persperctive, he played with Chris Carter, who in my mind is a top 10 WR of all time (or even better) and he still was getting busy.So points were to be had in Minnesota. He had Randall Cunningham and Daunte Culpepper as his QB's, not too bad of selections to at least get him the ball. Then you saw what Moss had with Brady. Imagine if he played longer in NE and kept up that pace? He can obviously still play, but his attitude got him booted from New England as well. You see the same thing with TO When you look at it that way, being the GOAT also means having a good attitude in addition to putting up numbers.
 
beh235 said:
Ok, addressing your first statement, you becoming the judge Fitzgerald by that one game. He has a terrible QB situation. Consistently gine him having the Kurt Warner from the Rams, then he would do damage. Yes, Rice had HOF QB's, which played a part, but still he was better than his peers. And WR comp was way better than it is now. Randy Moss could have those numbers, at one point, he was on pace to catch him, but what caught up to him? his attitude. You might be too young to remember this, but the 1998 Vikings scored 556 points, the most by any team in NFL history in a regular season. To put it in even further persperctive, he played with Chris Carter, who in my mind is a top 10 WR of all time (or even better) and he still was getting busy.So points were to be had in Minnesota. He had Randall Cunningham and Daunte Culpepper as his QB's, not too bad of selections to at least get him the ball. Then you saw what Moss had with Brady. Imagine if he played longer in NE and kept up that pace? He can obviously still play, but his attitude got him booted from New England as well. You see the same thing with TO When you look at it that way, being the GOAT also means having a good attitude in addition to putting up numbers.
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Moss was never gonna put up those numbers because of his style of play. I am a huge Moss supporter but I dont see him ever becoming the possession receiver he would have had to transition to in order to be consistently dominant at 35+.

You're not appreciating how far ahead Rice is statistically. TO had a much more realistic shot to break 23k receiving than Moss IMO. Moss has been basically injury free his whole career how much stats has he really "lost" cause of his attitude 1000 yards max? 1500?He cant get on the field for San Francisco. He would need about 6 more elite seasons to catch Rice unreal.
 
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Rice was pretty much everything a WR or a football player should be. Being an 80's baby I saw him play plenty of times. When the topic of "best" came up in the schoolyard it was always Rice. For my money, the best football player of all time.
 
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Rice is "better" but Moss is definitely more talented.

Rice had the better work ethic, route running, and consistency. The consummate professional. And playing with two first ballot Hall of Famers at QB for majority of his career didn't hurt.

Moss faster, better hands, freakish athletically. It's no coincidence two of the highest scoring offenses of all time featured Randy Moss (07 Pats, 98 Vikings). If he had the right attitude and longevity I think he could have easily broken Rice's records.
 
DangerousG said:
I think dude really meant more along the lines of physical specimen when he said workout warrior. No one doubts his work ethic, **** was legendary
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This is what I'm talking about when I say I can't debate people on NT. The term "Workout Warrior" applies to people who perform at high levels on practice fields (mainly as dictated by scouts) rather than in games. Rice didn't do well in those mandated workouts. "Workout Warriors" excel on the practice field, or in a 40-yard dash in front of scouts. But it's in the game where it matters most. If they can't take a hit or turn on the jets when it matters, then who cares.

As they say, there's a difference between game speed and everything else. And Jerry Rice knew it better than anyone.
 
Fantastic4our said:
Rice is "better" but Moss is definitely more talented.
Rice had the better work ethic, route running, and consistency. The consummate professional. And playing with two first ballot Hall of Famers at QB for majority of his career didn't hurt.
Moss faster, better hands, freakish athletically. It's no coincidence two of the highest scoring offenses of all time featured Randy Moss (07 Pats, 98 Vikings). If he had the right attitude and longevity I think he could have easily broken Rice's records.
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Not sure about the easily part but definitely would've had a look at it. But he didn't and Rice is the freakin man.
 
dmxfury said:
Not sure about the easily part but definitely would've had a look at it. But he didn't and Rice is the freakin man.
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exactly, those small things are the difference between very good and great, or great and all-timer.

Rice was and is the best to this day.
 
651akathePaul said:
Definitely still the greatest. His game was flawless. His work ethic is what set him apart. His routes were textbook and masterful. He had very good hands and above average athleticism that was supplemented greatly because of how precise his game and route running was. And after all this, he was still one of the smartest football players around. He just knew the game. How it worked and how others worked to use it all to his advantage. Add it all up and it was near impossible to pinpoint a weakness.
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exactly my take on him is kinda like mj.... are there players that can do some aspects of tthe game better then them sure... is there athletes/players that was more physically gifted... more talented as far as certain aspects skills of their respective sport.....sure. But the BIG picture when you culminate all avenues/skill set/athletism/knowledge and fundamentals of the game none has done it better.
 
[COLOR=#red]Went through this entire thread and nobody mentioned he went to a small HBCU school (Mississippi Valley State), and he was actually SLOW in the combine. Ran a high 4.6. There were more physically gifted receivers that came out with him, but he made a career out of ultra precise route running and an amazing work ethic. Didn't hurt he played with some of the greatest QB's (Montana and Young), played in a well defined offense (West Coast), pretty much had the same Coach and Offensive Coordinator, and he had other great players surrounding him (the other receiver Taylor was a beast as well, Dwight Clark beast WR/TE hybrid, and Roger Craig All-PRo RB).[/COLOR]
 
Jerry Rice also never played @ that 4.6 speed. And as we all know by now, 40 speeds can be doctored a bit w/ improved form & practice
 
dreClark said:
Jerry Rice also never played @ that 4.6 speed. And as we all know by now, 40 speeds can be doctored a bit w/ improved form & practice
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[COLOR=#red]Closing speed is what Jerry Rice was said to have. And the 40yd isn't always the best indicator of it.[/COLOR]
 
A better argument would be is he the greatest football player of all time, because he is easily the greatest WR of all time.
 
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