no one here is saying that vegeta passed goku though
Dont dare insult me like this b
I'm a big Vegeta fan too, but him being #2 and trying so hard to become 1 is a big reason why he's my favorite. Goku is an idiot that loves to fight...that's all. Vegeta actually has a goal and you watch him continue to struggle and grow to reach it.
if something happens in the next couple of episodes that forces vegeta to admit it than fine. but all through out DBZ goku and vegeta have been alternating surpassing eachother and thats happened from the saiyan saga up until now. goku may reach a level first but vegeta often catches up and then surpases until goku reaches the next level. its constant.
no real slander just that some people believe vegeta has caught up to goku and others dont.
I'm a few episodes behind in super. Is there more Vegeta slander?
I don't mind spoilers.
I can agree with some of this but to me, ive never felt that the show has ever showed that vegeta ever surpassed goku
).
i think thats cause people tend to look at it from a goku centric perspective.
right? i dont see anything farfetched about the idea that goku and vegeta are equals. you cant go back in the shows history to support your argument if the shows CURRENT events say otherwise.Vegeta acknowledging Goku as being superior to him was back in the Buu Saga, which was a while ago now. At that time Goku had SS3 in comparison to Vegeta's SS2. We've since not only seen Vegeta manage to briefly surpass Goku's SS3, but also manage to gain the exact same form as Goku, without the need of multiple other Saiyans and a hokey ritual. Don't see an issue with the argument that Vegeta and Goku are about even at this point. Using Hit as an example of Goku being superior then makes little sense, when it's acknolwedged that Vegeta's previous fights took a tole on him (Really this shouldn't need to be pointed out in the story at all, but some fans need to be spoonfed information).
My thing is... Dudes keep bringing up the past continuity of DBZ when Toriyama has already shown the rules were rewritten for Super.
Everything points to Vegeta and Goku being equals. Like I acknowledged last page, Goku does have the Kaio Ken trump card but until we see that up against Vegeta it's pure conjecture how that would play out. If Vegeta outlasted it Goku is done for, to give a quick counterpoint.
Even in that fight between Copy Vegeta and Goku you can see how calm Vegeta's demeanor is. Even at the very end when he was facing death he turned to face everyone with a smirk. I think he's come very far in putting what Whys said into play.
This scan below isn't to propose Vegeta is stronger than Goku, but it's pretty much facts they're even now.
Scan is from just after RoF.
ihust1e
that's just the goku centric way at looking at it. It has always been a back and forth between goku and vegeta as far as strength goes. On more than 1 occasion goku set the bar and then vegeta met and surpassed them before any trump card was developed. Like when vegeta first transformed into a super Saiyan and fought android 19. Vegeta was confirmed stronger than goku. And goku had no trump card, no attack, no transformation in his back pocket. And he didn't get stronger until he used the hyperbolic time chamber and trained. Goku and vegeta feed off eachother now more than ever in Super. The fight between copy vegeta and goku def solidified vegetas level in my mind and show where he is in respect to goku.
