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Official 2013 Boxing Thread: Year is over, please lock. - Page 19  

post #541 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by aepps20 View Post

He's only acting like this because a few weeks back fighthype interviewed Dre about the PBF Ghost matchup and Dre said that he's a PBF fan but because he grew up with Ghost he's pulling for him.

Still uncalled for. Mayweather might just be doing this to bring more attention to his upcoming fight.
post #542 of 6620

 

 

#95 Jack “Kid” Berg (157-26-9)

The legendary Kid Chocolate did not make the list. Jack Berg is the reason.

With a relentlessness that typified his ring style, Berg amassed 157 wins at the expense of just 26 losses in a 1930s lightweight division as deep as it was wide. Ten of those defeats came as he wound down his career over shorter distances in the US having lost his British title to Jimmy Walsh in 1936 (a bizarre trip to the Caribbean to win the Bermuda Welterweight title aside).

He first ran into Chocolate, or rather Chocolate ran into him, in August of 1930, his fifty-six fight unbeaten streak on the line. The bigger man by some nine pounds, The Whitechapel Whirlwind used every drop of that extra weight to harass and harangue the superior boxer and betting favorite back. Chocolate dominated the early exchanges but Berg finished the stronger of the two—with no more than a round between them in any newspaper report, Berg took the split. Two years later they met again and again Chocolate was beaten, this time over the longer distance of fifteen rounds. erg was no craftsman, he was nothing like The Cuban Bon-Bon’s equal in that regard, any more than he was the equal of the great Tony Canzoneri but he, too, was bested, absorbing what the New York Times called the worst beating of his career. Canzoneri was able to reverse this loss in subsequent rematches but like Joe Glick, Billy Petrolle, Billy Wallace or Tippy Larkin, he found himself coming up short at least once against Jack Berg in what was a stellar hall of fame career.

 

 

 

 

 

 

#94 Lennox Lewis (41-2-1)

A discussion of Lennox Lewis’s all-time great status generally descends into an argument about step-aside money paid by Don King and/or a disagreement about the legitimacy of the British heavyweight’s TKO victory over Vitali Klitschko.

I am not conflicted on either of these issues. The circumstances surrounding the payment of step-aside money that Lewis accepted from Don King to postpone a fight with Mike Tyson doesn’t matter. Lewis is great without any provisos. The Vitali Klitschko victory is very simple to appraise: a 256 lb. man punched a 248 lb. man in the face until he was no longer able to continue with the fight. That is what boxing is, precisely.

Aside from the outstanding achievement of beating his immediate successor as the world’s best heavyweight, Lewis beat every man he ever faced as a professional. He beat more Ring ranked contenders at heavyweight than anyone aside from Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. He won the European title in his thirteenth fight, the British title in his fourteenth (from the enormously tough Gary Mason) and was still matching top contenders thirteen years later.

Lewis has not inspired the fans in the same way that Joe Frazier and George Foreman have, but he has terrified the opposition. David Tua, Andrew Golota, Henry Akinwande and even Mike Tyson are the world-class heavyweights who quit to him in one way or another. Capable of outboxing the boxers and outpunching the punchers, his chin will remain in doubt based upon those two knockout losses to Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman but it is also true that beating heavy hitters was his meat and bread. He destroyed the opposition (Michael Grant KO2, Hasim Rahamn KO4, Donovan Ruddock KO2), he patiently outboxed the opposition (Evander Holyfield twice, Zeljco Mavrovic, Tony Tucker, all UD12).

He beat a huge array of fighters and styles and is the most dominant heavyweight champion since Joe Louis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

#92 Joe Frazier (32-4-1)

Frazier snorted his way from an Olympic gold medal to the professional ranks without fanfare; perhaps the frustration informed his killing style.

He hit the ground running and by 17-0 had dispatched top names Oscar Bonavena, Eddie Machen, Doug Jones and George Chuvalo. The legend that belongs to Mike Tyson and Sonny Liston in truth should be hung upon Joe Frazier who ripped the massed ranks of the deepest heavyweight contendership in history to pieces before he had boxed twenty times.

Buster Mathis, Manuel Ramos, Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis all followed before 1970 was out and then Frazier painted his first legitimate masterpiece by breaking a helpless Bob Foster into two clean pieces in two scintillating rounds. Frazier had mounted one of the most rarefied peaks in heavyweight boxing history.

For all that Marciano is the pressure fighting juggernaut that ranks highest upon this list—you’ll have to wait to see where—it was Frazier who executed the definitive pressure-fighting performances at the weight. Even upon investigating the more mobile pressure fighters who occupy the lower weights it might be the case that no lesser a fighter than Henry Armstrong is the only boxer that bears a positive comparison. In the 1971 Fight of the Century, in spite of high blood pressure, in spite of deteriorating eyesight, Joe Frazier turned in arguably the best performance ever filmed at the weight. Watch carefully as Ali, still in possession of some of the fastest feet in the division’s history, bounces from rope to rope and the attack dog Frazier moves with him, never more than a half step behind and usually in perfect tandem. The left hook he threw to drop Ali to the canvas in the fifteenth round is said to be amongst the best ever thrown; it’s nonsense, of course, but not many men other than Joe himself threw better.

He eventually lost the series to Ali and would later be rag-dolled by the formidable George Foreman. What these two proved between them was that you had to all but kill Frazier to beat him.

What is clear is that in his savage prime, there are but a handful of men that could have held out the merest hope of doing so.

post #543 of 6620

 

 

#91 Fritzie Zivic (158-65-10)

Fritzie Zivic is another fighter to haul in more than 150 wins, but unlike Jack Berg, Zivic suffered a whopping 65 defeats. He lost a few. So what is the justification for ranking him so highly?

In part it is down to the way Zivic vetted his opponents: he didn’t. He makes Berg’s matchmaking policy look rather conservative. Zivic would fight anyone. He faced Ray Robinson twice, Billy Conn, Kid Azteca, Bob Montgomery, Beau Jack, Bummy Davis, Phil Furr, Izzy Jannazzo, Sam Angott, Lou Ambers, Jimmy Leto, the list goes on and on. It can be argued quite convincingly that Fritzie Zivic met the best array of fighters out of anyone on the entire list. I’ll say that again: Zivic may have fought the highest level of competition in the history of boxing.

And he won a fair share.

The jewel in his crown is unquestionably the twin wins over Henry Armstrong. Over the years it has become truth by repetition that Armstrong was past prime for those fights. I suspect it is true that he had slipped a little, but in the previous five months he had knocked out welterweight contenders Ralph Zannelli (TKO5), Paul Junior (TKO3), Lew Jenkins (TKO6) and Phil Furr (KO4). He was and remained the welterweight champion of the world, in full bloom—until Fritzie got a hold of him.

The first fight was close—Zivic had to knock Armstrong onto his *** in the last round to take the decision. The second fight was not. Armstrong had lost one fight in the last fifty-eight, down at lightweight to the rampant Lou Ambers, but it was Zivic who called time on the Armstrong party, stopping him for the first time since his pro debut.

Second and third are Fritzie’s wins over two fighters that were among the black murderer’s row of welter and middleweights that populated the era, ducked almost universally by the white contenders and champions of that time. Zivic ducked no one. He really had no business beating Charley Burley, who was faster, stronger, harder hitting and longer, but he did so over ten rounds in March of ’38. Similar things could be said of Eddie Booker, who narrowly missed out on this list and who was unbeaten in forty-one fights coming into his 1939 eight rounder with Zivic. Fritzie brought that streak to a juddering halt, snapping off five of the last six rounds with an aggressive punching performance against a man that would spend the rest of his career boxing as a middleweight.

Speaking of middleweights, Zivic met a great one in Jake LaMotta, on four separate occasions. The first, a split decision win for Jake LaMotta over ten, was a fight that Zivic swore all the way to the grave that he had won; it is true that, neither available wire report saw the fight for Jake, one scoring it a draw, the other having it to Fritzie. In a rematch over fifteen, LaMotta was said to be taking the fight “more seriously” but was confident that the longer distance would suit him. Zivic beat him out of sight, LaMotta getting as few as two of the fifteen rounds on some cards. LaMotta did win their two remaining bouts but wait a moment—what the hell was Zivic doing even fighting LaMotta? This was a smaller, older, past-prime welterweight taking on one of the strongest middles in history, ceding every single conceivable style advantage in existence and giving him nightmares. Beating him should have been impossible.

Yes, Zivic lost a few.

 

 

 

 

 

 

#90 Young Griffo (69-9-44; 9-1-3 Newspaper Decisions)

Say hello to the list-maker’s nightmare, the inscrutable, the irascible, the mercurial Young Griffo. Just look at that record—forty-four mysterious draws and one hideous robbery to be investigated and interpreted. The temptation to leave him out was enormous—in the end that proved impossible.

From the beginning then: Griffo (real name, Albert Griffo) boxed his way through the forest of featherweights then competing in his native Australia mostly in no decision bouts where a draw would be declared in the event that no knockout was scored—which was often for Griffo who hit without power but was almost impossible to tag clean. He picked up the Australian featherweight title in 1889 and after a couple of defenses annexed the world’s featherweight title with a fifteenth round stoppage of the hard-swinging “Torpedo” Billy Murphy who had rather impressively dropped Griffo twice in the first couple of rounds but by the eleventh was struggling. In the fifteenth, he quit, a bare-knuckle fighter by nature he seemed displeased at having to wear gloves, which he claimed had been tampered with; this seems not to have been the case but either way and although it was amidst no little controversy, Griffo was now the champion. His first defense ended in a 13th round knockout of Paddy Moran, a routine win, but the next day report in the Barrier Miner contains a line of great interest—“Moran had plenty of supporters and was in better condition than Griffo.” Whether Griffo was yet the alcoholic he surely became during his years in America is unknown to me but he seems to have developed distaste for hard training and a habit for turning up to important fights out of shape very early in his career.

With me so far? Good. Because things are about to get worse. Unless you are a director in search for a project for your next biopic, in which case things are about to get better.

First George Powell quit to Griffo in March of ’91 and then Griffo beat Murphy in a rematch that July after he pushed or punched Griffo to the canvas then threw himself on top of him, continuing the attack for which he was subsequently disqualified in a fight he was apparently controlling. Griffo defended his featherweight title once more, renounced it, and sailed for America where the deepest lightweight division in all of history was stirring.

Griffo met them all. He met the long-reigning lightweight champion Jack McAuliffe. He met the future champion Frank Erne. He met tombstone puncher Kid Lavigne. He met the brilliant Joe Gans three times. He met the genius that was George Dixon three times. And Griffo did not win a single one of these fights. Worse, many of them were total farces.

Nevertheless, this is the time from which is reputation as the most physically talented boxer of his era springs. Lavigne, who met him first over a drawn eight-rounder of which he had the better, described him as the cleverest and best boxer he had ever met. When the two fought again over twenty rounds in 1895, Lavigne again got the better of their draw although unfortunate reproductions of the Nat Fleischer story concerning the fight may have given the opposite impression over the years. Next day reports are clear; the draw was “inevitable” but Lavigne had the better of Griff—or perhaps Griff had the better of Griff. By this time he was drinking heavily and “carried a paunch.”

Against Erne, he fought a drawn four-rounder almost universally regarded as a fake. He claimed himself that his first fight with Joe Gans, fought in November of 1895, was also faked, although the 1897 rematch was a superb performance. “He completely out-boxed me,” Gans is said to have told The Washington Post. “He was the greatest defensive boxer that ever lived.” A draw was the result. Gans caught up with the shot version of Griffo and stopped him in eight rounds three years later.

The smaller George Dixon fought three draws with the Australian. Many sources have him holding the tiniest of margins over Griffo the first time around over twenty, both men boxing with utter brilliance in their second drawn fight over twenty-five. Griffo had gone to fat by the time of their third fight over ten and my impression is of a fighter who just doesn’t want to get hit rather than one who wants to win a fight. Such were his abilities in this area that nobody thought to complain. Another draw was declared.

Finally, to Griffo’s contest with the legendary Jack McAuliffe. It is in keeping with the perversity of Griffo’s career arch that his greatest win was a loss.

I am uncomfortable turning over the judges’ verdict for the purposes of historical rankings even when we have the film of the fight, so for me, naming Griffo a winner over McAullife is no small matter. It is a fact, however, that not a single next day report labels the reigning lightweight champion the winner. The best that can be seen for him is the draw declared by the San Francisco Call. The Witchita Daily Eagle wrote that Griffo had “punched [McAuliffe] all over Coney Island, slapped his face and wiped up the United States with Mr. Jack, the referee bobbed up and takes the battle away from him.” The Salt Lake Herald wrote that “there was never such a demonstration against a referees decision…McAuliffe attempted to speak to the crowd but was hissed down.” Griffo’s chance to be named lightweight champion was snatched from him.

Where does all that leave us? At #90, but you could rank him almost anywhere. If we were ranking fighters purely based upon their physical abilities he would be right there alongside Harry Greb and Roy Jones. If we were ranking him based upon squandered potential he would be #1. In an overall sense, I don’t think he can be higher than I have him here, however. His best results are draws and a loss, and my job is not to unpick what might have been had he turned up for his biggest fights sober and in shape but to appraise what actually occurred and what actually occurred was his matching some of the greatest fighters in all of history based upon a defensive style of boxing the like of which may not have been seen in the sport again until Nico Locche hit his stride nearly seventy years later.

post #544 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post


Still uncalled for. Mayweather might just be doing this to bring more attention to his upcoming fight.

Pretty much.  Floyd always finds a way to get his name out there.  It helps Andre Ward too, but I agree with Floyd in the sense that Andre really needs to get out of Oakland and start fighting at bigger venues on a routine basis.

post #545 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Still uncalled for. Mayweather might just be doing this to bring more attention to his upcoming fight.
Pretty much.  Floyd always finds a way to get his name out there.  It helps Andre Ward too, but I agree with Floyd in the sense that Andre really needs to get out of Oakland and start fighting at bigger venues on a routine basis.

I've said that all along, he won an Olympic gold medal, won the super 6, and is currently #2 p4p in the world. Yet he can walk down the street without anyone knowing who he is.
post #546 of 6620

 

 

#89 Marco Antonio Barrera (67-7)
#88 Erik Morales (52-9)


There are no ties on this list.

Nevertheless some fighters are so closely linked that it is not possible to write about one without discussing the other. How, in the end, do you go about separating Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera? They couldn’t even do so themselves, in a trilogy as good as anything that side of Vazquez-Marquez.

I disagreed with the judges on every occasion in those three fights. The first, perhaps the best fight of 2000 and a split decision win for Morales, was a Barrera win on my card, Marco Antonio breaking off the last two rounds against a tired Erik to sneak the decision; the second, I saw a close Morales win whilst all three judges found it for Barrera. The third, another absolutely outstanding contest, I scored a draw whilst the judges again were split but came out with a Barrera win. Having said all that, I wasn’t ringside for these fights—the decision of the judges should be respected.

Part of Erik’s problem with Barrera was the difference in speed. Marco Antonio is quicker and so in a round where neither man excels themselves or momentarily overpowers the other the only way for Morales to win the round is to outwork an opponent who is an excellent counterpuncher and works well with angles. In other words, Barrera’s superior versatility made life hard for Morales, who was working at a slight style deficit.

But in the second fight I thought Barrera showed some tactical naivety, going away jabbing, taking the wrong range. Yes, he was more versatile but that versatility was not always put to the perfect use and it gave Morales space to box his fight here. In the tenth round of this fight Morales perfected his thinking aggressor’s offense for three breathtaking minutes in which he dominated with three different styles, arguably the highest level either of these men reached in the ring, stopping a rush by Barrera on the scorecards. I came away from these first two fights with the strange impression that Barrera had more but that Morales knew better what to do with what he had. This impression was confirmed for me by their respective go-rounds with the great Manny Pacquiao. Morales did not just beat Pacquiao, he told us before the fight exactly how he was going to do it, mixing boxing and punching to produce the “intelligent fight” he needed to defeat the Filipino. In the build-up, Freddie Roach spoke endlessly of “the Manilla Ice”, his nickname for Pacquiao’s newly included right hand, the final piece of the puzzle in making Manny the complete fighter. Prime-for-prime, Morales bested the Filipino.

At their respective bests each was a wonderful talent that probably failed to distinguish one from the other, but whilst Morales was beaten only by Barrera, Barrera himself lost to stop-start herky-jerky stylings of Junior Jones in their 1997 contest. Outboxed and, bizarrely out-dogged, Barrera not for the last time seemed a tiny bit confused by his own possibilities. A more accomplished fighter overall that Morales in my opinion, he won straps at super-bantamweight, featherweight and super-featherweight.

Erik won titles of various meaning at these weights and added a bauble at light-welterweight.

Beating Cesar Cano for the vacant WBC 140 lb. trinket is not what separates him from Barrera by the tiniest of margins though. That would be preposterous. It’s a feeling—you have one too. It could be the same as mine, or it could be quite different and I am satisfied with either one—we only have two things we must agree upon.

One: it is close.

Two: they are great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

#87 Nonpareil Jack Demspey (50-4-11)

In April of 1887, Jack Dempsey stepped into the ring with Billy Baker, a heavyweight out of Buffalo New York and knocked the bigger man around the ring for four rounds. Due to the rules the two men had agreed, however, Baker took the win—the 145 lb. Jack Dempsey had agreed that if the 180 lb. Billy Baker remained upon his feet after just four rounds, he would be named as the winner. And that was it. That was the only loss Jack Dempsey posted between turning professional in 1883 and the infamous “lucky punch” landed upon him by George LaBlanche in 1889. For six years he was undefeated and for much of that time was regarded as the best fighter on the planet pound-for-pound, to the extent where he was considered a serious proposal as an opponent for the then legendary heavyweight champion, John L. Sullivan, who frequently carried more than 200 lbs. to the ring with him. This may have been something of a reach, even for Jack, but it is true that he made a habit out of thrashing men who were bigger than he.

“Denny Kelliher,” wrote The New York Evening World of Kelliher’s 1887 contest with Jack Dempsey, “is a big muscular pugilist whose weight is upward of 220 lbs.…still, Dempsey defeated him in the usual invincible way…Kelliher could no more land his right in the neighborhood of his small but wonderfully scientific opponent than he could wing a swallow with an ape.”

This was the essence of Dempsey’s boxing, and it worked at odds with what had gone before him. Fighters worked always to avoid being hit, but the Nonpareil seems to have been the man to make this de rigueur. His contribution to boxing, in conjunction with the wonderful lightweight champion Jack McAuliffe, seems to have been nothing less than the legitimization of defensive boxing at the expense of the heartfelt slog to the finish—but nor can he be accused of abandoning his offense.

“Dempsey made a chopping block of the big Philadelphian in the fourth and last round. He counted on Kelliher with both hands. The audience went wild over the wonderful exhibition of cleverness.”

A legitimately two-handed boxer-puncher, Dempsey was the sublime general of his generation with the ability and the fighting intellect to adopt whatever strategy was necessary for winning, sans drama. ITALICThe New York Evening World is quite right; the “usual invincible way” is the exact manner in which he dominated an era.

Dempsey lost two fights during his extraordinary prime, the 1889 shocker against previous victim LaBlanche (“Chance blow”—The Helena Independent, “Dempsey had the best of it”—The St.Paul Globe, “Demspey was considered a sure winner at all times during the contest”—The Sacramento Daily Record-Union) and the 1891 drubbing by Bob Fitzsimmons. Fitzsimmons represented yet another evolution in boxing’s lightning development in that late part of the 19th century and he marked the end of what was likely the most clear domination of a division by any fighter up until that point.

Only a lack of truly great opposition keeps him from scaling the very heights; but the ease with he dominated the thirty-plus men he bested during his prime assures his inclusion.

post #547 of 6620

 

 

#86 Wilfred Benitez (55-6-1)

Wilfred Benitez was only seventeen years old when he tenderly slipped into the Puerto Rican ring to meet 4-1 favorite and champion Antonio Cervantes, lifting the WBA light-welterweight title over fifteen rounds, boxed with the earnest sincerity of youth. Benitez was arguably never better, although he would impress many times between this, the first victory of his prime in March of 1976 and his July 1983 defeat by the brawling Mustafa Hamsho up at middleweight. In between he was beaten just twice and by men who lie further up this list, Thomas Hearns and Ray Leonard. When he stepped into the ring with Leonard in November of 1979, his record stood at 38-0-1 and he was about to impress once more, albeit in defeat.

Benitez assuaged aggression in fighters as well as anyone in boxing with a combination of direct and hurtful counterpunching and that tricky head-movement that bought him the nickname “El Radar.” “Chasing a ghost,” is how Leonard described boxing him. “He slipped one punch after another…I never missed so many punches.”

Losing that fight and a later one to Tommy Hearns pegged Benitez as a fighter that belongs in the bottom half rather than the top half of this list, but wins against Roberto Duran, Harold Weston, Carlos Palomino and his lifting straps from light-welterweight to light-middleweight make him a lock for the lower reaches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

#85 Juan Manuel Marquez (55-6-1)

So what did Juan Manuel do to distinguish himself from Barrera and Morales? He may have spent several years chasing both but failed to get Morales into the ring with him at all, and his eventual win over Barrera, although clear, is hardly a victory over a fighter in his pomp.

The answer, of course, is Manny Pacquiao.

In many ways, Morales did the more impressive work by getting a clean win over the Filipino at or near his best, but the career arch of Juan Manuel is more complex. Squint just a little when you look at his stats and you will see a fighter with arguably only one legitimate loss, to the P4P #1 and much bigger Floyd Mayweather. The early career loss to Freddy Norwood is eminently arguable (I have it to Marquez) and the loss to Chris John has always perplexed me. Before anyone cared, it was seen as a clean win for John. As Marquez became more and more crucial to the perception of Manny Pacquiao’s legacy, it became a robbery. Then, when some kindly soul uploaded the full fight to YouTube, it became fashionable to deem it a clean win again. For me, Marquez won the fight top to tail and I can never find more than four rounds for John, so I have the Mexican winning out of sight despite the two legitimate deductions for low blows.

Another myth concerning this fight is that it is the fight that “changed Marquez’s style,” that he somehow became more aggressive behind this injustice (if injustice it was). That too is inaccurate. Marquez fought very aggressively in this very match, it was in part the reason he dominated. Nevertheless it is true that at some point between his 2004 draw with Manny Pacquiao and his 2006 loss to Chris John, Marquez seemed to accept that he was going to be hit, quite a lot. A classic counterpuncher with an instinctive understanding of range this attribute never translated on defense; Marquez is leaky. On offense, he is amongst the best of his generation, arguably the best, certainly he is the most fluid combination puncher of the last decade and this has resulted in a surprising 40 stoppages in 55 victories—all the way up to welterweight.

Perhaps this is the reason Marquez ranks higher than Barrera and Morales. He’s traveled all the way to welterweight and in one of the most stunning stoppages in recent boxing history he knocked Manny Pacquiao unconscious with a single punch. Their rivalry has been a great one and in many ways it does define Marquez despite two razor thin decision losses. For the record, I don’t feel that Pacquiao has beaten Marquez once, my cards read 3-1-0 in the Juan Manuel’s favor. The judges, of course, had a better view than I did and in the end their decision must be respected, but either way, it is Marquez that has shaken more stardust from Pacquiao than any other fighter. Taken in tandem with his longevity, devastating the #2 pound-for-pound fighter in the world nearly twenty years after his professional debut, and you can see the daylight creeping in between him and his Mexican brethren.

And he’s not done yet.

post #548 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post


I've said that all along, he won an Olympic gold medal, won the super 6, and is currently #2 p4p in the world. Yet he can walk down the street without anyone knowing who he is.

It's wild.  I too have him as #2 P4P and like you said, only hardcore fans know who he is.  Despite the fact that he's one of the most talented fighters in the sport, he won't ever be a PPV star due to the fact that he's an American that isn't very vocal and his style isn't the most exciting to the casual fan.

post #549 of 6620

 

 

#84 Jake LaMotta (83-19-4)

“I was able to convince my body that I could take it and nobody could hurt me. I might’ve got cut, stitches over my eyes. Broken nose. Broken hands. But I never really got hurt.”

Jake LaMotta’s ability to absorb punishment is legendary and perhaps even unparalleled but it has led to an eclipse of his other fine attributes, which actually includes an outstanding jab, a crucial augmentation punch for his relentless stalking style.

Priceless ringside-eye view footage of his famous middleweight title tilt against French idol Marcel Cerdan gives us the best insight into his fighting style as he jabs and stalks the champion back whilst dipping and slipping, searching relentlessly for the opening for his left hand, which he used liberally to head and body. LaMotta’s punches were crude in the sense that he tended to throw them wide but there is actually a certain thuggish fluidity to these shots which he pours on with the wanton abandon only a granite chin can support. Getting hit for Jake was just a part of going to the office; punches held no fear for him. Despite his apparent feather-fistedness, it made him dangerous. Nobody ever managed to make LaMotta go away. Whatever poison you fed him he was there from the first bell until the last, begging for more.

These brutal stylings brought Jake wins over Fritzie Zivic, Tommy Bell, Bert Lytell, Jose Basora, George Costner, the great Holman Williams, Robert Villemain, Tiberio Mitri and Bob Murphy, returns that give him one of the more pleasing win resumes in the division’s history. He also beat Sugar Ray Robinson, and although the great welter and middleweight dominated the series between them it is as glittering a win as exists in boxing, Jake being the only man to beat Robinson in 130 tries.

Prime losses to the smaller Fritzie Zivic, Cecil Hudson and Laurent Dauthuille and the one-sided drubbing he suffered at the hands of the brilliant Lloyd Marshall means ranking him higher than the eighties is a bit of a stretch, but one of the most unpleasant styles in ring history combined with a litany of middleweight and a smattering of light-heavyweight scalps make him difficult to leave out.

 

 

 

I freaking love the first quote. What a strong (Mentally and Physically) man LaMotta was.

 

But anyway what you guys think so far of the list?

post #550 of 6620
Thread Starter 
I think it's great. At the very least, it's something to read during work. I'd say keep posting em.
Unbowed
Unbent
Unbroken
Unbowed
Unbent
Unbroken
post #551 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Still uncalled for. Mayweather might just be doing this to bring more attention to his upcoming fight.
Pretty much.  Floyd always finds a way to get his name out there.  It helps Andre Ward too, but I agree with Floyd in the sense that Andre really needs to get out of Oakland and start fighting at bigger venues on a routine basis.

I've said that all along, he won an Olympic gold medal, won the super 6, and is currently #2 p4p in the world. Yet he can walk down the street without anyone knowing who he is.

 

 

 

and before the DLH fight you could say the samething about floyd

 What do the Dallas Cowboys and the US Postal Service have in common? Neither one delivers on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/bigmike1102

 What do the Dallas Cowboys and the US Postal Service have in common? Neither one delivers on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/bigmike1102

post #552 of 6620
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Originally Posted by Bigmike23 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Still uncalled for. Mayweather might just be doing this to bring more attention to his upcoming fight.
Pretty much.  Floyd always finds a way to get his name out there.  It helps Andre Ward too, but I agree with Floyd in the sense that Andre really needs to get out of Oakland and start fighting at bigger venues on a routine basis.


I've said that all along, he won an Olympic gold medal, won the super 6, and is currently #2 p4p in the world. Yet he can walk down the street without anyone knowing who he is.



and before the DLH fight you could say the samething about floyd

Ward has no one to fight who would put him at a superstar level. Not even Bute would've when he was still undefeated.
post #553 of 6620

Floyd has always been outspoken though.  It also helped that he had physical gifts that were only seen in guys like Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones Jr. and Muhammad Ali.

post #554 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bless View Post

Floyd has always been outspoken though.  It also helped that he had physical gifts that were only seen in guys like Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones Jr. and Muhammad Ali.

Come on Floyds notoriety doesn't have much to do with his physical and athletic gifts laugh.gif.
post #555 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post


Come on Floyds notoriety doesn't have much to do with his physical and athletic gifts laugh.gif.

One can make the argument, especially in his early career.  He wasn't the #2 P4P fighter in the world in 1999 because of his personality.

 

1999

1. Roy Jones Jr.

2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

 

From 130-140, Floyd dominated with his fast hands, legs, exceptional defense and overall speed.  

 


Edited by Bless - 3/14/13 at 11:37am
post #556 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmike23 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakydestroyer View Post

Still uncalled for. Mayweather might just be doing this to bring more attention to his upcoming fight.
Pretty much.  Floyd always finds a way to get his name out there.  It helps Andre Ward too, but I agree with Floyd in the sense that Andre really needs to get out of Oakland and start fighting at bigger venues on a routine basis.


I've said that all along, he won an Olympic gold medal, won the super 6, and is currently #2 p4p in the world. Yet he can walk down the street without anyone knowing who he is.



and before the DLH fight you could say the samething about floyd

Ward has no one to fight who would put him at a superstar level. Not even Bute would've when he was still undefeated.

 

 

the weight class he can fight in there has never been huge PPV draws there. Hopkins and Roy jones didnt become draws till the later parts of there career.

 

and ward atleast has a home town fan base something alot of these fighters dont even have

 

not sure why Floyd even threw shots when he was in wards postion at one time

 What do the Dallas Cowboys and the US Postal Service have in common? Neither one delivers on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/bigmike1102

 What do the Dallas Cowboys and the US Postal Service have in common? Neither one delivers on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/bigmike1102

post #557 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmike23 View Post

 

 

the weight class he can fight in there has never been huge PPV draws there. Hopkins and Roy jones didnt become draws till the later parts of there career.

 

and ward atleast has a home town fan base something alot of these fighters dont even have

 

not sure why Floyd even threw shots when he was in wards postion at one time

 

I think part of it had to do with Ward publicly stating that he was rooting for Guerrero and he probably wanted to give Andre some publicity since he's been sidelined due to his surgery.  

 

Like Ward, Mayweather had to pay his dues. He was the B-side during his fight with De La Hoya, but when you compare him to where Andre is now at 29, Floyd had already fought Gatti, Judah and Baldomir on PPV.  Floyd was the draw in each of these fights.


Edited by Bless - 3/14/13 at 11:54am
post #558 of 6620
Floyd needs to quiet down with those comments. Doesn't he know Andre Ward's manager is J. Prince?
post #559 of 6620
Disrespecting Floyd's athleticism and skills.

Its funny re-watching some of those old fights at 130. Floyd was pretty offensive minded. til the hand injuries and moving up in weight.

For all his greatness, Floyd still owes us, the boxing fans. He robbed us of potential virtuoso performances vs everyone at 147. there isnt a guy at 147 he would have lost to neither. Williams, cotto, Margarito, Pacman ... Nobody
WHIPPIN.WHITNEY
WHIPPIN.WHITNEY
post #560 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT View Post

Disrespecting Floyd's athleticism and skills.

Its funny re-watching some of those old fights at 130. Floyd was pretty offensive minded. til the hand injuries and moving up in weight.

For all his greatness, Floyd still owes us, the boxing fans. He robbed us of potential virtuoso performances vs everyone at 147. there isnt a guy at 147 he would have lost to neither. Williams, cotto, Margarito, Pacman ... Nobody

I was shocked when I read the comment about how a lot of his success didn't have to do with him arguably being the most physically gifted fighter to ever lace them up.  It's well-known that at the age of 17 he sparred and bested Pernell Whitaker and Frankie Randle.  

 

 

At 130 and 135, Floyd let his hands go a little bit more and he was masterful in the ring.  Head-to-head, I believe that he's the best lightweight of all time.  

 

I agree with you saying Floyd would've beaten each of those fighters at 147.  He looked brilliant against Hatton and would've taxed each of those guys as well.  

post #561 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog345 View Post

Floyd needs to quiet down with those comments. Doesn't he know Andre Ward's manager is J. Prince?

 

 

you notice when Prince sent out his comments yesterday Ellerbe came in to claim everything downlaugh.gif

 

 

 

Quote:

Like Ward, Mayweather had to pay his dues. He was the B-side during his fight with De La Hoya, but when you compare him to where Andre is now at 29, Floyd had already fought Gatti, Judah and Baldomir on PPV. Floyd was the draw in each of these fights.

 

 

ummm

 

VS gatti he wasnt the draw, gatti was the draw that crowd was there for gatti and remember after the gatti fight floyd fought in portland and barley filled up the crowd VS mitchell

 

VS Baldomir the arena was half full and had everyone walking out by the 9th round

 What do the Dallas Cowboys and the US Postal Service have in common? Neither one delivers on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/bigmike1102

 What do the Dallas Cowboys and the US Postal Service have in common? Neither one delivers on Sunday.

https://twitter.com/bigmike1102

post #562 of 6620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bless View Post

I was shocked when I read the comment about how a lot of his success didn't have to do with him arguably being the most physically gifted fighter to ever lace them up.  It's well-known that at the age of 17 he sparred and bested Pernell Whitaker and Frankie Randle.  

 

 

At 130 and 135, Floyd let his hands go a little bit more and he was masterful in the ring.  Head-to-head, I believe that he's the best lightweight of all time.  

 

I agree with you saying Floyd would've beaten each of those fighters at 147.  He looked brilliant against Hatton and would've taxed each of those guys as well.  

 

Pernell was cracked out by then and honestly seeing his temperament he wouldn't have sparred seriously against some unknown kid.

 

And how do you have Floyd as the greatest at 135 H2H wise? (130 I could see but he has competition in Arguello there but it's very close)

He fought about 2 or 3 guys. I have Duran there, his best outing being De Jesus 3).

post #563 of 6620

 

 

#83 Lloyd Marshall (70-25-4)

Yes, LaMotta was hard to leave out and his daring-do was a part of that reasoning. LaMotta did what very few white contenders did without very significant managerial or promotional pressure and stepped out to take on two members of the Murderer’s Row. He beat a past-prime Holman Williams in the summer of ’46, but the fight he never should have taken was against Riffmaster-General Lloyd Marshall in April of ’44. Marshall was a guy who didn’t care too much for the sheet music; a jazz musician, if you will.

Marshall freestyled his way to a clear points decision over the Bronx Bull after splitting his cheek, his nose and actually rocking the un-rockable middleweight in the fifth round. His left hand, an improvised instrument designed only for a drunken jam session, tore both LaMotta’s face and air of invulnerability apart. Marshall, along with Zivic and Robinson, would be the only men to beat Jake between July of ’42 and September of ’47.

One of the great delights of the last decade has been the emerging footage of Marshall. Reading about him before seeing him we were regaled with outlandish tales of a gunslinger that threw left hooks and right from the same stance with the same lack of tells, hands low in spite of a questionable chin. The stories of his falling all the way back onto the ropes and using the bottom strand to catapult himself back into the fray (sometimes prompting startled referees into starting a count) were charming, but once playtime was over it was with a shake of the head that we dismissed the colorful ramblings of the 1940’s press. Only for it all to come magically and delightfully true when the footage stated to creep out.

Best of all was the silent film of his losing effort against Ezzard Charles. Marshall actually beat Charles in March of ’43, the jewel in the crown of his resume which includes such notable names as Teddy Yarosz, Lou Brouillard, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Joey Maxim, Jack Chase and Freddie Mills in addition to LaMotta. A weak chin (given the company he kept) and, perhaps, a tendency to make certain agreements with certain gentlemen regarding the outcome of certain fights, led to his losing no fewer than twenty-five duels, many of them slam-bam in his extravagant prime, and this keeps him just outside the eighty.

 

post #564 of 6620

 

 

#82 Pascual Perez (84-7-1)

Pascual Perez is as brilliant a flyweight as has ever lived. The Argentine amassed nine defenses of the title in six years at the top, more than any other fly on this list aside from Miguel Canto (more of whom later). Sporting a delightful fifty-seven stoppage wins and a knockout percentage in the sixties he was a little man who could box or punch but who, at just 4’11, had to overcome huge physical disadvantages. Even in the 112 lb. division he would often give away big chunks of weight to his title opponents. Despite this, he went unbeaten for the best part of eight years, picking up a national title in just his sixth fight and the world title in just his twenty-fourth, going to Japan to outclass and outpoint national idol Yoshio Shirai who was taller by five and a half inches and heavier by four pounds. Shirai was a brilliant operator with the scalps of Dado Marino and Terry Allen hanging from his belt and was a trailblazer for Japanese boxing as well as much bigger—in a rematch Perez knocked him out and sent him into retirement.

As soon as Perez began to slip, the physical disadvantages he had to suffer made life impossible, as the excellent Pone Kingpetch proved by beating him back to back in 1960 to remove him from the title picture, but that didn’t stop the little man adding another twenty-eight wins before losing four of his last six darkened his record slightly.

An utterly brilliant and dominant flyweight at his best, his 51-0-1 run perpetrated against taller and heavier men over a period of just six years is perhaps the most celebrated in the history of his division. It is interesting to ponder how long he might have ruled weighing in as a modern-day minimum or light-flyweight. It seems a rather terrifying prospect.

 

post #565 of 6620

 

 

#81 Panama Al Brown (133-20-13)

An aspect of ranking fighters that i very difficult to get proper control of is the dreaded “head-to-head” equation. This is where the differences between the achievements and legacies of fighters become so hard to differentiate that you start to fall back on the oldest of fight adages, “who would win?” It is strange that it tends to be thought of as the grubby little cousin of “historical achievement” when ranking fighters on any all-time list. You don’t sit down in front of the television on Saturday night and handicap your boxers based upon what they’ve done in the sum total of their careers, just how good they are and maybe upon how they performed last time out. Panama Al Brown is a fighter whose high ranking rests in part upon his astonishing head-to-head abilities.

Brown was 5’11 and had a 76” reach. For the sake of comparison, Anselmo Moreno, who is rated at #1 by the Transnational Boxing Board in the current bantamweight division, is 5’6 with a reach of 70”. In an era of same-day weigh-ins, Brown was taller and rangier than current middleweight champion Sergio Martinez. He was physically capable of throwing, and landing, uppercuts without breaching his opponent’s jabbing range. The advantages he held over the field are almost unparalleled but he did not rest upon these physical laurels. He was technically gifted, capable of attacking on the front foot from suddenly from unseen angles, did a very nice line in a shucking defense and whilst he was not a huge puncher, his stringy elegance made him a dangerous hitter capable of one-punch knockouts with either hand.

Such were his skills and physicality that he was able to go unbeaten at his favored bantamweight for an astonishing and fight-filled eight years, from his questionable points loss to Belgian idol Henri Scillie in Paris in 1927 and 1935, when he lost to Spain’s Baltasar Sangchili (later avenged). Not a fighter shackled to any one country for fear of bad judging, Brown was the ultimate road warrior, boxing forty times on the European continent in these years, beating the best the world had to offer—perhaps the Panamanian’s persistent drinking and smoking went down better over here than it might have in the United States. He did box in America and visited Canada for some of his very best performances, including the two-minute knockout of the storied Emile Pladner, his jab clinic against the superb Pete Sanstol (then 76-2) and his utter domination of Eugene Huat (who holds a win over Newsboy Brown and tragically beat Pladner into a coma from which he would fortunately recover). He was unquestionably the best bantamweight in the world for the best part of ten years, should be favored to beat every bantam to have come before him and depending upon your own view on the evolution of boxing you might reasonably pick him over every bantam that came after him too.

Although he performed well at featherweight, he lacks the genuine pound-for-pound achievement to put him nearer the top of this list. His tendency to lose to the quill of his featherweight competition even in his prime years despite considerable physical advantages even those few pounds north, a factor. Were it based purely upon the head-to-head equation with his abilities at bantamweight the only factor, he would be considerably higher.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


#80 Jim Driscoll (53-3-5; Newspaper Decisions 7-1)

The story goes that when Jim Driscoll’s died in January of 1925 and his funeral procession passed through the streets of Cardiff, one-hundred thousand wet-eyed Welshmen and women lined the streets, hats in hands. That was the kind of man he was; both belonging to the people and the master of their hearts.

100,000 hearts does not get you onto this list, however, so how to explain Driscoll’s absence of a title reign? After all, he is ranked here in front of some of the greatest champions the sport has produced. What happened?

There is a story here, too. The story says that in 1909 Driscoll, by then boxing in America, met the cynical Abe Attell, one of the greatest featherweights in history, and provided for him a boxing lesson over ten rounds in a non-title bout—only for the cowardly champion to deny Driscoll a rematch for the championship.

Like all great stories, there are elements of truth…and elements of hokum. There are also some twists that are stranger than fiction. The reason Driscoll did not pursue an immediate rematch with Attell is the same reason that half of Cardiff lined up to pay their final respects, namely that his heart called him to duty rather than glory. Driscoll returned home to box in a benefit for local orphans.

Attell seemed open to the notion of bringing Driscoll back to the US for a rematch, but when he finally arrived more than a year later it was to lose, whilst in ill health, to Pal Moore who clearly got the better of him in a six round go. Suffering from a serious chest infection, Driscoll returned home to recuperate and the chance was missed.

That he gave Attell a boxing lesson seems to have been, at least in part, true. The Reading Eagle nominated him “the last word in exquisite boxing skills.” The New York Evening World said that Attell “…tried desperately for a walloping finish. Curiously enough it was during these flurries that he found Driscoll hardest to hit. It’s safe to say that in all his experience Attell has never met with such disappointment…he found himself up against a man who actually beat him in speed and skill.”

It is also true that newspaper reports can be found which deemed the fight a draw, but for the most part, Driscoll was deemed the superior. Very much in character, Driscoll leapt from the ring and into another, at “a charity barn dance where he boxed for more rounds then danced ‘till the sun rose.”

He was seen off on his steamship by a huge crowd of Americans who seemed to love him almost as much as the Welsh.

They had not been so impressed when he arrived. He was seen as small and sickly looking. Whilst it was true that he had bested the master, George Dixon, three times in the UK, including a knockout in five, his wins were over a faded version. He had also bested the best Europeans from bantamweight to lightweight often giving away size but never skill, twin wins over Joe Bowker the highlight. He won them over with brilliance and character.

His prime ended with his 1911 trouncing of Spike Robson (KO15). Spike had fought draws with Terry McGovern and Abe Attell and held multiple wins over the superb Harlem Tommy Murphy; against Driscoll, he was not in the fight, outclassed and stopped.

He let himself down a little bit in a DQ loss to fellow genius and Welshman Freddie Welsh, losing his treasured composure whilst being out-generalled by the bigger man but it was one of only four losses—none of which was without circumstances— in the most dignified of boxing careers.

 

post #566 of 6620
http://bymorgancampbell.com/2013/03/15/floyd-mayweather-vs-andre-ward-vs-the-real-son-of-god/



Floyd Mayweather vs. Andre Ward vs.The Real Son of God


Posted by Morgan Campbell on March 15, 2013 · 2 Comments






1 Vote


Six weeks ahead of his return to the ring against Robert “The Ghost” Guerrero, boxing’s top biggest name and cash king, Floyd Mayweather, used an interview with fighthype.com to fire a series of verbal jabs… at 168-pound champ Andre Ward.

Apparently Ward, the best boxer on the planet not named Mayweather, is a long-time friend of Guerrero’s and hopes the Ghost achieves an upset victory May 4.

Naturally, Mayweather wasn’t impressed, and responded by discussing in detail the beyond-the-ring flaws of the near-flawless fighter nicknamed “Son of God.”

Starting with that moniker.

“He calls himself S.O.G. If I’m not mistaken, that stands for Son of God. Last time I checked, we’re all God’s children. When one fighter is facing another fighter, God don’t choose sides. What’s going to happen in life is going to happen. Everything is already planned out. Listen man, if you’re going to be a pastor, go to church. If you’re going to be a reverend, go to church. If you’re going to be a boxer, be a boxer. I mean, one minute, they want to say all this S.O.G. stuff, and the next minute, they wanna go put tattoos on they body. I ain’t never seen a pastor boxing. I ain’t never seen a reverend boxing. I say a prayer that my opponent lives to fight another day and I live to fight another day. You got these guys trying to hurt a man on Saturday and then going to praise the Lord on Sunday”

WARD_SOG

And moving on to Ward’s (lack of) marketability.

Not knocking Andre Ward, but he can’t sell tickets nowhere. He can’t sell tickets in Las Vegas. This is the only guy I know that’s a gold medalist, but don’t nobody know he’s a gold medalist. He’s a gold medalist, but he’s making money like he don’t even got a medal. Like I said before, Andre Ward, he’s a good fighter, but who knows him? If you’re not in Oakland, you don’t even know who he is. He’s getting older and time is ticking, so I mean, when is he going to ever leave Oakland and put ***** in seats somewhere else?

Predictably, a flurry of responses, counter-responses and runaway internet hype about catch-weight challenges that prompted Ward himself to speak out in the interest of stopping the madness.

Still, a few aspects of this debate bear closer scrutiny.

For example…

1. “I ain’t never seen a pastor boxing”

Mayweather’s never heard of this guy?

2. Is James Prince the common denominator?

Shortly after Mayweather’s comments hit the internet Ward’s manager, James Prince, responded with shots of his own. Prince managed Mayweather early in Floyd’s career and clearly didn’t appreciate his former protegé criticizing his current star pupil.

Not knocking Floyd Mayweather, but he knows he couldn’t draw flies to a dumpster until he beat Oscar De la Hoya. I know this is true because I was managing him when he couldn’t sell out his hometown of Grand Rapids or the San Francisco Auditorium, which only seats 6,000 people.

Question:

If Mayweather had an Olympic medal, a big personality and several world titles yet still couldn’t sell tickets, shouldn’t we fault the people managing for not selling him correctly? Prince discusses Mayweather’s pre-2007 anonymity as if Prince played no role in making the fighter known to a broader audience. And pointing out that Mayweather wasn’t a big draw before defeating De La Hoya doesn’t remedy Ward’s dilemma.

He’s not absolutely unknown — his 147,000-plus Twitter followers make him more popular in that space than half the teams in Major League Baseball. But he still has trouble selling tickets outside Oakland, is a long way from headlining a pay-per-view event, and even with his commentating gigs on HBO is struggling to establish a big enough following to make PPVs a possibility.

MayweatherCash

Shouldn’t his manager be working to fix that problem?

Yes, but remember this. Mayweather didn’t become a star until after he left Prince.

Am I conflating correlation and causation here?

Possibly, but this much is certain:

Mayweather’s rant has earned Ward more publicity than Prince’s “managing.” So maybe instead of ripping Mayweather he should take notes on how this former client figured out how to win the fame game.

3. But Back to God — Mayweather has a point.

I’m no theologian, and I’m rarely spotted in a church aside from weddings, funerals and Martin Luther King Day vigils, but I know this:

“ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

So if we’re all God’s children but Jesus is God’s only Son, what is Andre Ward? God’s outside kid? Is God listing Andre Ward as a dependent on his tax returns? And while I’m sure Ward is devout, billions of other human beings are too, so what has he done to merit half-sibling-to-Jesus status?

Expressing devotion and feeling thankful for blessings is one thing, but calling yourself the Son of God requires a self-righteous sanctimony not even Tim Tebow expresses — at least not in public. Smug piety like that would make Ward one of the most polarizing figures in sport if more fans cared who he was, except… well… see above.

jesus_with_boxing_gloves

It also makes you wonder how Ward’s “Son of God” moniker would go over with the original Son of God.

Again, I’m no religious scholar but I can’t imagine that level of hubris sitting well with a man who so prized compassion and humility — the very two qualities that would keep Jesus from backhanding Ward for his insolence.

Yes, I understand Ward is the second-best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet while Jesus was but a humble carpenter. But Jesus walks across ponds, conjures an entire banquet from two loaves of bread and turns water into wine with the power of his mind. He’d figure out a way to outbox Ward.

And if not, he’d win the decision anyway because God would take a sudden interest in sports and rig the outcome in favour of his son.

The older one.
WHIPPIN.WHITNEY
WHIPPIN.WHITNEY
post #567 of 6620
Oh geez. Shows how much Floyd and the writer know. Yes, SOG means Son of God. But Ward said before the Dawson fight that God was short for Godfather, his Godfather and trainer, Virgil Hunter. Hunter took on the father role when Ward's father passed away. mean.gif

This just in:

Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=63388#ixzz2NdirWoZk
This is a legal waiver. By copying and using the material from this article, you agree to give full credit to BoxingScene.com or provide a link to the original article.

By Edward Chaykovsky

WBA/WBC super middleweight champion Andre Ward (26-0, 14KOs) says his comments regarding a drop in weight to face Floyd Mayweather Jr. (43-0, 26KOs) was not a public challenge. The unbeaten boxer says he was simply answering a hypothetical question regarding a Mayweather fight. In the last few days, there have been some words exchanged between the two camps, but Ward is not looking to drag the situation out for the sake of making headlines. As far as Ward is concerned, the Mayweather situation is now closed.

"I've been in boxing a long time and rule number 1 is you don't call somebody out that's three weight classes lower than you. You also don't call somebody out who has a fight coming up, and I'm not in a position to call anybody out right now because I'm rehabbing my shoulder. I'm not a guy that says things for shock value or says things to get headlines," Ward told FightHype.com.

"I respected what Floyd has done for the sport before he said what he said and I respect what Floyd has done for our sport after he said what he said. We had a difference and that's what it is. What I'm not going to allow to happen is this thing to escalate and there be some long-standing beef or problem between me and Floyd Mayweather when that's not the case, so it's done. I don't have no problems with Floyd Mayweather. It was squashed the other day. I answered the question and it got blown way out of proportion."
post #568 of 6620

 

#79 Teddy Yarosz (107-18-3)

Teddy Yarosz hit like a girl. In 128 fights he posted a pitiful 17 knockouts. In spite of his total inability to punch hard enough to make the definitive impression he beat Lloyd Marshall, Nate Bolden, Archie Moore, Ken Overlin, Ralph DeJohn, Billy Conn, Lou Brouillard, Solly Krieger, Vince Dundee, Jimmy Smith, Tommy Freeman, Ben Je—you get the point.

Yarosz lifted a piece of the middleweight title in 1934 and unified later that year against Vince Dundee. The only black marks from the prime that followed came against Babe Risko, who went 1-2 against Yarosz but only after the Pittsburgh man fractured his knee in both of those losing efforts. A pair of losses to all-time great Billy Conn make sense on paper, but both of these fights were hugely controversial. When the decision for the first fight was read the ring was pelted with seat cushions and bottles, a cacophony of booing drowning out the cheers of the Conn fans.

“Billy is a good boy,” said Yarosz. “But I certainly beat him.”

In the second fight, Yarosz seemed to be winning out of sight but a near collapse in the championship rounds seemed to offer Conn a glimmer—and Conn took full advantage, beating Yarosz around the ring like a bad dog for a seeming endless nine minutes. Although he greeted the final bell with near total collapse the press were near unanimous in seeing Yarosz the winner but the judges, again, chose Billy. A third fight was inevitable and Yarosz finally received a decision. A brilliant performance against a heavily favored Archie Moore in 1939 would be his best post-Conn performance, although he also went 1-1 Lloyd Marshall.

Grace, speed a superb jab and two-handed punching (often to the body) were the main ingredients in Teddy’s great success. The addition of power would have made him amongst the most complete fighters in the history of the middleweight division.

 

post #569 of 6620

 

 

#78 Bob Foster (56-8-1)

Bob Foster lost eight fights, but not one of them was to a light-heavyweight. At 175 lbs., his best weight, he went through his entire career unbeaten. His competition was not exceptional, but he was. It can be argued that Foster is the single hardest puncher that has ever boxed, and whilst his division was not resplendent with talent, it was resplendent with iron chins. Didn’t matter. Foster was one of those freaky-deaky punchers, the kind of guys who seem to carry dynamite that has been blessed by a voodoo priest then coated in astrolite before being planted in gloves mounted with cyanide tipped nine-inch nails.

Seemingly too upright and too slouched at the same time, Foster appeared as some terrifying prehistoric bird all legs and feathers, both fragile and deadly. That fragility was exposed up at heavyweight where all of Foster’s losses occurred and where he failed to turn in a single top-class scalp despite repeated opportunities. Nevertheless he did beat something in the region of twenty fighters weighing in over the light-heavyweight limit, work that does enhance his standing slightly on this pound-for-pound list. But it is that incredible unbeaten run at light-heavyweight that locks him up, a run that include some sixteen victorious title fights. Losses to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier can’t be seen to hurt him much, and although losses to the lesser lights of Doug Jones, Mauro Mina, Ernie Terrell and Zora Folley may have an air of disappointment about them, they all occurred before he hit his absolute stride, during which time only all-time great heavyweights found a way to lay him low.

 

 

 

Yeah Foster is Top 5 LHW for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#77 Larry Holmes (69-6)

Larry Holmes staged dual comebacks in 1988 and 1991, the first a result of a big money offer to come straight out of retirement and match Mike Tyson, the second a surprisingly meandering stroll through the peaks and valleys of the 1990s heavyweight scene—in fact Holmes boxed all the way into the 2000s, stopping an equally creaky Mike Weaver in 2002 in the sixth round. Larry’s decision to box on did not seem born of financial insecurity or an unquenchable ego but because of an unerring desire to dominate. You can see it for every moment Larry Holmes is in the ring, whether you are watching the young man go to war with Ken Norton or the old man chasing the twenty years younger Anthony Willis.

The tools he brought to bear in this oldest of ambitions were formidable. Holmes argues the best jab, the best right hand and the best footwork in the history of the heavyweight division. You may have a personal preference for Sonny Liston or Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali in each of these areas respectively but it is beyond question that Holmes belongs in those debates. Add a granite chin, superb accuracy, some dig, technical accomplishment unequaled in heavyweight history and that natural proclivity for domination and you have a fully-fledged 215 lb. war machine.

This birthed the most celebrated reign in WBC championship history— until it came to make more financial sense to adopt the IBF trinket, at which point Holmes happily changed allegiances, defending the new bauble until he was shockingly separated from it by a brilliant Michael Spinks in September of ’85. Holmes was already slipping by this point and it is arguably the case that he went through his entire prime unbeaten. The reason he is in the top 80 rather than the top 70? Well, he arguably did not.

Holmes had a desperately close call in the match in which he lifted the title against Ken Norton in a fight I thought he lost (the judges awarded him a split decision). No rematch was forthcoming; a criticism that would be leveled against Holmes again when he was arguably beaten by a novice Tim Witherspoon in their 1983 confrontation which I scored a draw (the judges, again, handed it to Holmes on a split). He also seemed adverse to unification fights and his reign is littered with alternative heavyweight strapholders. His failure to meet a surging Greg Page instead of opting for the limited Marvis Frazier (whom he dispatched in a single round) was also a concern. Holmes, like Jack Dempsey, arguably missed out on some of the most important fights of his career and many of his defenses were soft.

Unlike Dempsey, he was an enormously busy champion who busted up a huge raft of top-class contenders over a seven-year period that included twenty successful title fights and a stretch of 48-0. He won his first meaningful fight in 1978 and his last in 1992. Like Lennox Lewis he was more feared than loved—but, when he was in the ring at least, that suited Holmes just fine.

 

post #570 of 6620

 

 

#76 Mike McCallum (49-5-1)

McCallum may languish nearer the bottom of this list for reasons political. He chased tirelessly after both Roberto Duran and Thomas Hearns during an under-celebrated career that was exactly that kind of marquee name away from obtaining the next level. Duran, he likely would have beaten at his favored light-middleweight; Hearns may have been a reach. Unfortunately these two stayed busy with other people (including each other) and McCallum, who brought to life the ghost of Charley Burley with all the talk of the risk versus the reward in taking him on, was bequeathed the dubious honor of Royal Duck to the four-kings era, one he could have helped define.

Still, he did more than enough to be stuck to this top one hundred like glue. A superb an concise puncher, he boasted a granite chin amongst his many compelling attributes, even surviving multiple flush bombs from perhaps the hardest puncher of all time pound-for-pound, a light-middleweight Julian Jackson, in the first round of their ’86 contest. McCallum slipped, ducked, belt-line-blasted and jabbed his way back into that wonderful shootout, backing Jackson up by the end of the first, dropping him early in the second with a right upstairs and a left to the body then spending much of the next minute finishing him off with the dogged, elastic, fluid, professional offense that defined him.

Undefeated at light-middleweight against men such as Donald Curry, Milton McCrory and David Braxton, he did slip a little when the inevitable move to middleweight in search of big fights occurred, losing to and then avenging the defeat by Sumbu Kalambay, controversially drawing with and losing to James Toney (whom some will tell you he beat twice), but he also added the WBA strap, absolutely broke a superb Michael Watson (“11 rounds of back and forth hell”) and beat Herol Graham and Steve Collins. An ancient McCallum even lifted a strap up at light-heavyweight before dropping off to 2-3 in what remained of his career.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#75 Azumah Nelson (39-6-2)

The greatest African fighter in history? As we shall see, not quite, but there will be those who disagree with my placement of The Professor and rank him as just that.

Nelson actually boxed in the United States as early as ’81, his third year as a professional, but he mostly boxed on the African continent until, in an interstellar blast of an introduction, he was matched with the wonderful featherweight champion Salvador Sanchez as late substitute, just 13-0 as a professional. Such was Sanchez’s towering reputation and so lowly was Nelson’s, that the fight was seen as something of an insult to fans. Instead, the two turned in perhaps the greatest featherweight title fight in boxing history, a phone-booth war fought with genuine elegance. When Nelson, behind on the cards, was finally stopped in the fifteenth round it did nothing to dampen the enthusiasm the sport in America felt for him. Two years later, still only twenty fights into his professional career, he unfolded no less a figure than Wilfredo Gomez to lift a featherweight strap in Puerto Rico. Nelson successfully defended that title six times including the devastating first round knockout of European champion Pat Cowdell, who he utterly devastated in England in ’85. Nelson went where the money was, a road warrior who was all smiles. In ’88 he won a super-featherweight strap which he would defend into double-digits before relinquishing to Jessie James Leija, reclaiming it from Gabriel Ruelas and, in a last hurrah, stopping Leija in their third fight in six. Most famous for his controversial draw with the superb Jeff Fenech and the rematch in which he stunned both the Australian and the wider boxing world, Nelson never did things the easy way which is what sets his legacy apart.

He excelled because of a near flawless skillset. There will be fighters on this list that are way ahead of Nelson in each and every category one can use to judge a boxer’s abilities, but few will have his overall completeness. So, his chin was superb but not uncrackable. He hit with power, but could be borne. He was fast but not lightning. He threw with volume but not abandon. What underpinned this exhaustive whole was old-fashioned craft. “The Professor” was so named for his ability to hand out boxing lessons.

Away from home against great fighters, he was superb, and perhaps only the genius of Pernell Whitaker (who decisioned him at lightweight in 1990) kept him from three-weight honors and a place higher on this list.

 

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