The Official Tennis Thread (Vol. 2024 Oz Open Nadal Out)

[eiddyfouw]

I don't see Venus winning another slam.  Serena should have a shot at Martina, but Graf's 22 would be a big ask.  

Hmmm... I guess it was a bit pre-mature to expect big things from Raonic this year.  This is a horrendous match. 

The match-stats will not be a true reflection of Fed's performance today. 

Whoa, for some reason I thought Graf was lower than 22. Yeah, 22 in this modern game at 31 will be very difficult. Even if we gave Serena this one, another 7 more will be very difficult.

 

[fantastic4our]

Whoa, for some reason I thought Graf was lower than 22. Yeah, 22 in this modern game at 31 will be very difficult. Even if we gave Serena this one, another 7 more will be very difficult.

Even if she doesn't surpass 22, would you still say Serena > Stef? Graf didn't have the same level of competition that Serena has faced. No Venus at the least, Serena could easily have 20 right now.

 

[gunna get it]

I think Steffi would obliterate the Williams' sisters. she dominated all surfaces.

I dont know about lack of comp. she had to get thru chrissy and Navratilova

and arancha sanchez, Monica & sabatini were just as good if not better than the azarneka's and sharapova's of today

 

[eiddyfouw]

Whoa, for some reason I thought Graf was lower than 22. Yeah, 22 in this modern game at 31 will be very difficult. Even if we gave Serena this one, another 7 more will be very difficult.

Even if she doesn't surpass 22, would you still say Serena > Stef? Graf didn't have the same level of competition that Serena has faced. No Venus at the least, Serena could easily have 20 right now.

It's always hard to say, because even if I say "Serena is better than Graf because xyz" people will always measure based on titles. I personally think that Serena could be better than Graf. But we also have to take into consideration, changes in the game. Racquet improvements and surface improvements, have allowed people like Serena to flourish even more (more curve on the ball, and much faster play). I don't know if a young Steffi in her prime could stop a young Serena in her prime.

I think Steffi would obliterate the Williams' sisters. she dominated all surfaces.

I dont know about lack of comp. she had to get thru chrissy and Navratilova

and arancha sanchez, Monica & sabatini were just as good if not better than the azarneka's and sharapova's of today

Obliterate? No. The game has changed. A lot faster, a lot more demanding and a lot more physical. Serena is a powerhouse, and on her best days, it's almost impossible for the worlds best to stop her. I'm not saying Graf didn't have any competition at all, but the game is harder these days. There's also much more women in the sport today. The schedule is fuller and more demanding today.

 

[gunna get it]

I say Yes. with lesser equipment, Steffi was known for her Power and Incredible service game

She had no holes in her game.

 

[mpire]

Serena's had to deal with more competition wise, as well as the evolution of the game itself as eiddy pointed out.

And really? Yelling "come on" is disrespectful? If anything, its showing respect because if Serena wasn't feeling the frustration/pressure of her opponent, she wouldn't yell that to begin with. When shes winning matches 6-0 6-1 she's not yelling "come on." In other words, it means her opponent is giving her a rough time and is obviously competitive enough to drive Serena to that point.

That ***** is mad.

 

[aepps20]

Most of Graf's GS were won after Monica got stabbed. Monica pre-stabbing was putting in work on the tour and If I recall, there was a point where she won 10 of the 12 biggest WTA events between 1990 and her stabbing. I think the depth of talent on the WTA is the highest it has been in years as evident by the presence of more upsets in the first weeks of slams (over the last 8 years) than we saw in the past.

 

[Sinner]

It's always hard to say, because even if I say "Serena is better than Graf because xyz" people will always measure based on titles. I personally think that Serena could be better than Graf. But we also have to take into consideration, changes in the game. Racquet improvements and surface improvements, have allowed people like Serena to flourish even more (more curve on the ball, and much faster play). I don't know if a young Steffi in her prime could stop a young Serena in her prime.

Obliterate? No. The game has changed. A lot faster, a lot more demanding and a lot more physical. Serena is a powerhouse, and on her best days, it's almost impossible for the worlds best to stop her. I'm not saying Graf didn't have any competition at all, but the game is harder these days. There's also much more women in the sport today. The schedule is fuller and more demanding today.

The joke from Agassi was that he doesn't even have the most slams in his household!

Anyway, you're right... which is why I'm adamant on saying you can't compare different generations.  The game's changed too much. Like you mentioned, the equipment has been a huge factor.  As for the surfaces... I wouldn't say it's faster now, cuz the grass at Wimbledon has become relatively slower since Steffi's days. The bounces are slower, but the ball-striking have been more powerful.  Slower surfaces allow for more rallies from the baseline, which is why we don't see the serve&volley players anymore.  The game probably feels faster cuz of the equipment and strings.  The new strings allow you to generate more spin, meaning you can hit the ball harder, but cuz of the huge topsin, the balls will dip back into the court (instead of sailing past the baseline).  That's why we're seeing so many crazy passing shots from way behind the baseline. Guys can whip the ball with huge pace, but they'd drop inside the court at the last second. Back in the day (and I'm saying pre-2000, maybe, pre-polyester strings), if the pros hit the ball the way they do now, a lot of their shots would fly out.  Without a doubt the strings favor a certain style of play, which is what we're seeing today.  

Steffi held her own from the baseline back in the day (5 French titles, I think?), but also had some variation in her game (slices, chip&charge, volleying, etc) which was how she was able to win 7 Wimbledons. Players back then molded their game to how it was played back then just as how the players are doing so now... lots of running, defense and movement.  If the prime-Steffi played prime-Serena in today's conditions, with today's equipment, then chances are, Steffi would lose.  But if you swapped and had Serena play on the surfaces back then with a flexible, hefty racquet strung with natural gut, I think Steffi would have the advantage.  Hell, if you put David Ferrer up against Rod Laver, playing in today's conditions, I'm sure Ferrer would come out victorious. Having said that, if Steffi grew-up in today's tennis environment, who's to say that she wouldn't train just as hard as all the girls on her movement and defense instead of volleying, slicing, etc?  She would just as well adapt her training to accommodate today's style of play.  We can't assume that just because Steffi (or all the players back then) didn't play as physical a game, doesn't mean that they can't train to play physically and succeed today. 

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I think there are too many people out there nowadays (media, fans, whatever) who conveniently do a straight-up comparison with players from different eras without considering the various factors. 

As for Monica... had she not been stabbed, I don't think Steffi would have won as many slams as she did. 

 

[thebsprky]

Serena's had to deal with more competition wise, as well as the evolution of the game itself as eiddy pointed out.

And really? Yelling "come on" is disrespectful? If anything, its showing respect because if Serena wasn't feeling the frustration/pressure of her opponent, she wouldn't yell that to begin with. When shes winning matches 6-0 6-1 she's not yelling "come on." In other words, it means her opponent is giving her a rough time and is obviously competitive enough to drive Serena to that point.

That ***** is mad.

I'm saying tho

What a cornball statement

Mind'ya bitness

 

[aepps20]

Not only is it difficult to compare players across generations, but we also can't assume that past greats would be able to rack up the number of titles and GS playing a game that is far more physically demanding and taxing than the game they played. Margaret Court has more GS titles than anyone else on the women's side, but I don't think she would last playing the kind of tennis the players play today. What is incredible to me about power tennis on the women's side is that that style of play doesn't permit longevity of career to possibly catch Martina, Steffi or Margaret. Not to mention the nonexistence of a true off season and the current trend of sacrificing sound technique for ball bashing power tennis only exasperates the injury situation. The fact that Serena has been able to have such a successful career despite the injuries and the time off is amazing. Think about all of the players that were either in Serena's generation or slightly after that no longer play (Hingis, Capriati, Davenport, Henin, Clijsters, Kournikova, Myskina, Dementieva) I'm sure I'm missing several players.

 

[bballkingsrule1]

LOL. So it's Sloane vs. Serena part 2 

Really, not much drama... a lot of players yell 'come on'... I didn't get what the big deal was. 

Sloane, please make it interesting.

Lol Sloan is saying that cuz they friends but it shows Serena thinks she a top player. 

WIll be interesting to see if Serena does another couple of come ones to rustle up Sloan. 

 

[quell]

Wooooooooowwww Daveeed

 

[Sinner]

Epic choke by Nico there. Wow.

EDIT ~ Murphy - "Mr. Al......... magro is challenging the call..." 

 

[quell]

heard that too.

Almugro showing his true old form colors. Ferrer is still playing pretty bad. The Mug is just choking, again

Break. Break. Break. Break.

 

[jumpmantwenty3]

Just fold already ferrer

 

[quell]

Almuuuggggrooo

 

[jumpmantwenty3]

Please just kill off Mr Wozniacki :x

 

[Sinner]

This match... 

 

[quell]

@ this

 

[Sinner]

Man, Nico's backhand down the line has been ridiculous. 

EDIT ~ Oooo... tweaked his groin there? 

 

[quell]

Goodnight

 

[Sinner]

Never underestimate Daveeeeed's competitiveness... or Nico's inability to serve-out a match. 

 

[jumpmantwenty3]

Aight I'm out

 

[quell]

Never underestimate Daveeeeed's competitiveness... or Nico's inability to serve-out a match. 

Yup. When Almagro choked serving 5-4 in the 3rd I knew we were in for one

Getting broke 3 straight times though. Cmon man!

 

[Sinner]

And now he's injured... he can't even get any elevation when serving. Somehow manages to hold. 

EDIT ~ Resorting to standing there and just slapping winners... and it's working! LOL