Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread

awwsome said:
I like him but he's already older than some guys who are 3-4 years in
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Is that a bad thing if he's a projected 2nd round pick?

Not every team is looking for a seed to plant for 5 years down the line. Kadji is going to be extremely attractive for teams in the 2nd round looking for guys to plug into their rotation right away.
 
Kadji is one of the guys I've heard mentioned by the Wizards as someone they're looking at in the 2nd round. They really have a need for a stretch 4, and he'd fit that mold.
 
He fits well with the Wizards, they definitely could use his shooting and he runs the floor well
 
Larkin reminds me of a worse version of DJ Augistin coming out of college. I think he can be an alright backup point guard in the league, but there was a good amount of times where I saw when they pressured him coming up the floor he just got ate up by bigger guards. And not once did I EVER see Larkin do anything elite athletically in an actual game. He had pretty good lift on his jumper, but that's about it.
 
Buc Em said:
Larkin reminds me of a worse version of DJ Augistin coming out of college. I think he can be an alright backup point guard in the league, but there was a good amount of times where I saw when they pressured him coming up the floor he just got ate up by bigger guards. And not once did I EVER see Larkin do anything elite athletically in an actual game. He had pretty good lift on his jumper, but that's about it.
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:x
 
Do yall think McLemore sounds like a dummy during interviews?
Same goes for Noel.
Id be wary of using a high pick on em :rofl:
Goes to show these players just dont go to class at all and get automatic grades.:smh:
Guess thats why most players go broke after retiring.
Not hatin', just posting my thoughts.

 
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I'm more concerned with his lack of killer instinct more so than his interviewing skills.

Vic > McLemore, for me.
 
ChampCruThik said:
I'm more concerned with his lack of killer instinct more so than his interviewing skills.

Vic > McLemore, for me.
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This and this.

I wanna see Ben do well after hearing about his family situation but dude definitely doesn't have "it" even though he has all the tools.
 
Honest question why doesn't Ben McLemore get the positive late bloomer Tag ?

like some other like paul george, russell westbrook , kawhi leonard or even otto porter

instead he get's he doesn't have the it factor or killer instinct , alpha dog star BS tag all day :lol: ?

Ben played AAU with Bradley beal his name got big going to his senior yr oak hill did not go
as people expected but the one year he got to play at KU for the most part he was Great :smokin
 
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Ben macs game is the most nba ready in this draft but down the line i see vic being the best in this draft
 
show time 96 said:
Honest question why doesn't Ben McLemore get the positive late bloomer Tag ?

like some other like paul george, russell westbrook , kawhi leonard or even otto porter

instead he get's he doesn't have the it factor or killer instinct , alpha dog star BS tag all day :lol: ?

Ben played AAU with Bradley beal his name got big going to his senior yr oak hill did not go
as people expected but the one year he got to play at KU for the most part he was Great :smokin
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I don't know what any of those guys situations in college have to do with McLemore. Nobody in their right mind had Westbrook getting drafted as high as he did, Paul George was the same dude for Fresno State that he was for the Pacers til this year and Kawhi Leonard was the exact same player for San Diego State that he's been for the Spurs. The only thing that people have been saying about McLemore is that it's like he doesn't seem to know how talented he is. He's too passive and just goes ghost for extended periods of time. There's no doubt he probably is the most talented dude in this draft but I think scouts and coaches just wanna find out if he has that fire in his game to keep being the best player he can be. I'd like to say that his ceiling is Rudy Gay...but he's gotta improve his pull-up game and be able to attack the rim better. Right now he's more JR Smith'ish.
 
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This McLemore disappearing stuff is a little overblown. When you can't really attack off the dribble and teams gameplan for you, you're going to disappear for stretches. It's not about mental toughness, it's just the way it is. He'll have an easier time in the NBA because no one is gearing up to only stop Ben McLemore. He might be a good enough shooter and athletic enough to get away with not having elite handles - like Ray Allen did - but even Ray Allen disappeared when a good defender said F team defense, I'm staying in this guys chest.
 
Yeah that would be all good and dandy if he was going to a team with some other big time options to worry about...but if he goes to the Bobcats and is the go-to guy he might have some problems.
 
Doolittle:
Prospect rankings by the numbers

More and more, NBA teams are turning to analytics in the quest to maximize their return on coveted draft slots, or to unearth the gem farther down the board. When I talk to front-office types around the league, the topic of rating prospects almost always comes up. There is no magic in the process, either objectively or subjectively, and there certainly isn't any particular algorithm that's going to nail every prospect.

However, teams that ignore the analytical side of the game are working at a disadvantage. I've always liked the way Chicago Cubs president Theo Epstein describes it: The scouting side is one lens and the quantitative side is the other. It's only when you put both lenses together that the picture comes into focus.

I've been rating prospects for about five years using what I call the ATH system, which I've also used for various purposes on NBA-level topics as well. This year, I've made a few enhancements to the system (outlined in the chart at the bottom of this piece). The goal is to determine how a player's non-NBA production will translate to the game's highest level.

(Each player's prospect score (PROS) is denoted in parenthesis. Any score more than 100 denotes a deserving top-10 pick. Late first-rounders and early second-rounders -- always a gray area -- rate in the 65-75 range. Players fall off the draft board at about 50.)

Top of the crop

1. Nerlens Noel, Kentucky (PROS: 124.2)

Noel is far from the slam-dunk top pick that the system suggested Anthony Davis was last year, but he does grade out as this year's top prospect. Noel's transcendent college blocks numbers help propel him to the board's top athletic rating, and he also rates as the best defensive rebounder. His ACL injury is factored in one respect: During his recovery, Noel has lost a lot of weight, coming in at 206 pounds at the Chicago scouting combine, which are the numbers I use when possible. This may have skewed how the system matches Noel's body type with past prospects.

2. Cody Zeller, Indiana (122.3)

From a per-possession-efficiency standpoint, Zeller ranks as the best prospect on the board. The excellent athletic markers he displayed at the combine hold up statistically, as he's got the third-best ATH rating in this class. Zeller lags in the skill area in terms of outside shooting and passing, but I'm still convinced Zeller is underrated in the prospect rankings I've seen.

3. Ben McLemore, Kansas (119.5)

Anyone who's seen McLemore stroke a 3-point shot will not be surprised that he recorded the top shooting score of the 134 prospects I measured, and he projects to put up the best 3-point percentage of any rookie next season. McLemore's upside is what's most intriguing to me: His projected five-year WARP is best in the draft, making him a solid option to go with as the top overall pick.

4. Alex Len, Maryland (118.3)

As another injured prospect, Len is a bit of a wild card, but he's got the second-best ATH on the board. Len's lower skill rating suggests that he is raw, but the system believes he'll be an efficient scorer and rebounder right off the bat.

5. Anthony Bennett, UNLV (116.7)

Bennett's athleticism shines through the projections, but the skill ratings lag a bit, probably because of his "tweener" body type. ATH is a little skeptical that he'll be an efficient 3-point shooter right away, and if it's wrong about that, look out. His Synergy isolation numbers aren't inspiring, which underscores the system's belief that Bennett won't be a volume scorer right away.

6. Steven Adams, Pittsburgh (114.6)

Adams is one of the big risers on the board in terms of disconnect between metrics and scouting rankings. He's got the best-projected rookie rates in 2-point percentage, overall rebound percentage and block percentage. Yes, his block projection is even a hair better than Noel's. Body type has a lot to do with that. Consider Anthony Davis, who projected to lap the field in rookie block rate last year. He indeed was an excellent shot-blocker, but Andre Drummond and Festus Ezeli both put up better rates. Despite a foul rate that looks problematic, Adams is a worthy project.

7. Trey Burke, Michigan (110.1)

One of the draft's most vexing questions is who is the top point guard prospect? ATH likes Burke, though not by enough to settle the issue. The system sees him as a bit of a ball dominator, with rates in usage, assists and turnovers, and has severe concerns about his defensive prowess.

8. Michael Carter-Williams, Syracuse (107.3)

Carter-Williams has the edge on Burke on the defensive end, where Synergy gave him the third-best score against isolations of any player in the draft.

9. Otto Porter, Georgetown (107.0)

Porter is more well-regarded by the scouts than the stats, though a No. 9 ranking is nothing to sneeze at. However, his five-year WARP projection ranks just 12th in this draft class.

10. Victor Oladipo, Indiana (105.0)

Scouts love Oladipo's defensive upside, but it just doesn't translate statistically. ATH rates him 70th in defensive rating, 41st in steals and 52nd in blocks, and Synergy ranks him 81st against isolations.

11. C.J. McCollum, Lehigh (99.8)

McCollum may be the top scorer among next year's rookies because of his combination of skill and volume. His traits are heavily balanced toward the skill over the athletic, which is a concern. Also, his No. 13 ranking in five-year WARP puts him behind Burke, Carter-Williams and a soon-to-be-named point guard at his position.

12. Dennis Schroeder, Germany (98.8)

And that unnamed point guard is Schroeder, though as a player who is largely unproven in high-level leagues, he's a bit of an enigma. That said, his upside is tantalizing, with a five-year projection that is the top at his position.

13. Sergey Karasev, Russia (96.6)

Everything you've heard about Karasev's pure shooting ability shines through statistically, and he rates as the most-efficient offensive player in this draft. He also rates 130th out of 134 defensively, and his athletic rating is 133rd, so his strengths -- and weaknesses -- are apparent.

14. Jeff Withey, Kansas (90.7)

Withey is another big man whose lean body type is holding back his projected rebounding and block rates, and his age (23) is a drag on his five-year projection. His rookie-season projection is promising enough that he could be a rotation center immediately on the right team.

15. Gorgui Dieng, Louisville (87.3)

If healthy, Dieng could easily emerge as the most NBA-ready defender of the draft. He's the same age as Withey, though the system doesn't know about his overall lack of basketball experience. The passing abilities that the scouts like so much don't shine through the translations for Dieng, either. They'll need to, because he's not going to be a scorer.

Other first-rounders
16. Dario Saric, Croatia (84.2)
17. Glen Rice Jr., Georgia Tech (83.1)
18. Kelly Olynyk, Gonzaga (82.7)
19. Mason Plumlee, Duke (78.8)
20. Jamaal Franklin, San Diego State (78.5)
21. Jackie Carmichael, Illinois State (76.1)
22. Tony Mitchell, North Texas (75.1)
23. Mike Muscala, Bucknell (73.4)
24. Andre Roberson, Colorado (72.9)
25. Laurence Bowers, Missouri (71.7)
26. Allen Crabbe, California (71.7)
27. Rodney Williams, Minnesota (70.7)
28. Shabazz Muhammad, UCLA (69.8)
29. D.J. Stephens, Memphis (69.5)
30. Rudy Gobert, France (69.5)

In the last half of the first round, you'll notice that Gobert's statistical profile is underwhelming. There are a few unexpected names, most noticeably Bowers and Williams, but given that the system is built on a foundation of athletic markers, their inclusion might not be so surprising. If Bowers can further hone his face-up shot and develop some range, I love him as a defensive specialist, while Williams reminds me at times of Tony Allen. The system spit out the following about Williams: His most likely career path is that of Gerald Wallace. Neither Bowers nor Williams is a cinch to be drafted at all, much less in the first round. Meanwhile, Muhammad is the latest Ben Howland player whose statistical translations are highly pessimistic. Also, you can see where Saric rates if he does another about-face and stays in the draft.

Special mentions
32. Deshaun Thomas, Ohio State (68.1)
38. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia (64.4)
41. Nate Wolters, South Dakota State (64.0)
50. Shane Larkin, Miami (Fla.) (56.3)

Caldwell-Pope and Larkin are the highly touted prospects who fall the farthest in the ATH system. Caldwell-Pope has good stand-still shooting indicators but is held back by a poor defensive translation that conflicts with scouting reports. Larkin has the top projected assist rate in the draft, but suffers from poor shooting efficiency and the second-worst turnover rate on the board. The system undersells both of these players, but it does raise some red flags in their performance record. Thomas and Wolters merit special mentions because they top the board in the Synergy stats. Thomas has the best defensive isolation score, while Wolters tops the offensive end.

ATH system enhancements
1. Each player's ATH rating, or athletic rating, is calculated for his numbers in college, overseas or the D-League. It's based on height-adjusted measurements for rebounding, foul drawing, blocks and steals. This metric largely determines how much of a player's non-NBA production will be retained.

2. A skill rating, or SKL, is also calculated. It's based on the more gentle parts of the game, such as free throw shooting, 3-point shooting, turnover rate and assist rate, all of which are also adjusted for body type.

3. Other measurements are recorded for the purposes of player classification: height, weight, likely base position, age, a scouting rating based on combine measurements. I also enter the scout-based prospect rankings from our own Chad Ford to use for overseas players who haven't played in a high-level league, or for American players who didn't play college ball, such as Enes Kanter. In such cases, there just isn't objective data to go on.

4. To refine projections for players like Glen Rice Jr., who play in the D-League prior to entering the draft, I've added numbers from that circuit and blended them with their college performance. The bigger the sample, the better.

5. Finally, I've taken advantage of the terrific data from Synergy Sports Technologies to help refine player classification. I may add more play types in the future, but for this year, I was most interested in how the players rate in isolation situations, on both offense and defense.

The ATH metric is still the primary component in translating the numbers forward, but the other traits are used to better match a player's baseline projection with the historical database, which in turn suggests the probable career path for the player. The system now spits out extremely conservative five-year projections, which aren't meant to pin down a player's exact future value, but more to suggest the likely direction of his growth curve beyond rookie-year projections.
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JJs07 said:
Kadji is one of the guys I've heard mentioned by the Wizards as someone they're looking at in the 2nd round. They really have a need for a stretch 4, and he'd fit that mold.
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Think of your boy Blatche with a higher IQ and an actual brain.
 
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