'Mantyhose' Are The Latest Hot Trend In Menswear VOL. da emasculation of man is upon us.

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It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
 
JChambers said:
You just said the term "femininity" is a social construct, therefore our society dictates what is feminine and what is masculine. In this time,place and context, a skirt is considered feminine. Don't try to backpedal now. Go to your family reunion in a dress and some lipstick and high heel pumps, and everyone there is gonna say you are dressed like a woman. Only in this internet fantasy world would anyone disagree with that. You can try to intellectualize it all you want, but in this reality, 2013 U.S.A., wearing a skirt and some stockings is considered feminine. If you wanna wear a skirt and live in this country and not be considered feminine, you are going to need a time machine.
Click to expand...

Yes it is considered feminine. It is not inherently feminine which is what you initially claimed and what I disputed. How difficult is this for you to understand?
 
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...

You're so brainwashed bro it's really a shame. These same kinds of arguments were made to justify the enslavement and subsequent complete subordination of Black people in this hemisphere...
 
The problem with gender roles is when people on Niketalk say "You need a father figure to teach young boys about being a man" And when asked what "being a man" is all about, it's things like "taking care of your family, having responsibility, doing what's right, having confidence" and a bunch of vague qualities that both  sexes should have... that men and  women can teach and should know. That's a problem. Assuming only men have these inherent ability to teach what's right and that women can't. Or that whatever "feminine" influences a young boy has will lead to a lifetime of weakness, or homosexuality, or a "feminization" of men or whatever other stuff people come up with.

And when people assume any decision that goes against gender norms or societal expectations will automatically corrupt a young boy or girl, and lead to the downfall of the entire male sex, that's  a problem. 

People aren't arguing that all fathers should voluntarily dress their sons in dresses or allow them to do whatever they want... but it's recognizing that certain things are complete social constructs, so a rigid and aggressive attitude towards anything that deviates from the norm can be dangerous and problematic.
 
red mpls said:
JChambers said:
You just said the term "femininity" is a social construct, therefore our society dictates what is feminine and what is masculine. In this time,place and context, a skirt is considered feminine. Don't try to backpedal now. Go to your family reunion in a dress and some lipstick and high heel pumps, and everyone there is gonna say you are dressed like a woman. Only in this internet fantasy world would anyone disagree with that. You can try to intellectualize it all you want, but in this reality, 2013 U.S.A., wearing a skirt and some stockings is considered feminine. If you wanna wear a skirt and live in this country and not be considered feminine, you are going to need a time machine.
Click to expand...

Yes it is considered feminine. It is not inherently feminine which is what you initially claimed and what I disputed. How difficult is this for you to understand?
Click to expand...

It is inherently feminine, according to the definition of femininity in our current culture, you can say it isn't inherently female, but inherently feminine is still correct. You need to get out of the house more.With all of these abstractions, you can get lost in these ideas and go round and round to where nothing is concrete fact. Go put on a dress and walk around the mall and ask people if they think that you are dressed in a masculine fashion.
 
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red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...
You're so brainwashed bro it's really a shame. These same kinds of arguments were made to justify the enslavement and subsequent complete subordination of Black people in this hemisphere...
Click to expand...
I don't believe that to be an analogy that makes sense.  The treatment of minorities has nothing to do with the thousands of years of roles for Men and Women. 
 
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JChambers said:
red mpls said:
JChambers said:
You just said the term "femininity" is a social construct, therefore our society dictates what is feminine and what is masculine. In this time,place and context, a skirt is considered feminine. Don't try to backpedal now. Go to your family reunion in a dress and some lipstick and high heel pumps, and everyone there is gonna say you are dressed like a woman. Only in this internet fantasy world would anyone disagree with that. You can try to intellectualize it all you want, but in this reality, 2013 U.S.A., wearing a skirt and some stockings is considered feminine. If you wanna wear a skirt and live in this country and not be considered feminine, you are going to need a time machine.
Click to expand...

Yes it is considered feminine. It is not inherently feminine which is what you initially claimed and what I disputed. How difficult is this for you to understand?
Click to expand...

It is inherently feminine, according to the definition of femininity in our current culture, you can say it isn't inherently female, but inherently feminine is still correct. You need to get out of the house more. You can get lost in these ideas and go round and round to where nothing is concrete fact. Go put on a dress and walk around the mall and ask people if they think that you are dressed in a masculine fashion.
Click to expand...

Are you brain dead bro? :lol:

I have tried to be patient with explaining a very simple distinction to you which, at this point, it's cleat that you are either incapable of grasping or unwilling to acknowledge...
 
PowerBallin said:
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...


You're so brainwashed bro it's really a shame. These same kinds of arguments were made to justify the enslavement and subsequent complete subordination of Black people in this hemisphere...
Click to expand...


I don't believe that to be an analogy that makes sense.  The treatment of minorities has nothing to do with the thousands of years of roles for Men and Women. 
Click to expand...

You don't want the analogy to make sense. Do you really think that gender roles were the same across every culture throughout all of history? :lol:

And that is exactly like the justification for the oppression of Black people and other people of color. The oppressors argued that this was the "natural order" of things, the way things had always been. The same ridiculous argument that you're making right now when it comes to gender roles...
 
JChambers said:
red mpls said:
JChambers said:
You just said the term "femininity" is a social construct, therefore our society dictates what is feminine and what is masculine. In this time,place and context, a skirt is considered feminine. Don't try to backpedal now. Go to your family reunion in a dress and some lipstick and high heel pumps, and everyone there is gonna say you are dressed like a woman. Only in this internet fantasy world would anyone disagree with that. You can try to intellectualize it all you want, but in this reality, 2013 U.S.A., wearing a skirt and some stockings is considered feminine. If you wanna wear a skirt and live in this country and not be considered feminine, you are going to need a time machine.
Click to expand...
Yes it is considered feminine. It is not inherently feminine which is what you initially claimed and what I disputed. How difficult is this for you to understand?
Click to expand...
It is inherently feminine, according to the definition of femininity in our current culture, you can say it isn't inherently female, but inherently feminine is still correct. You need to get out of the house more.With all of these abstractions, you can get lost in these ideas and go round and round to where nothing is concrete fact. Go put on a dress and walk around the mall and ask people if they think that you are dressed in a masculine fashion.
Click to expand...
What he's saying is that something that is socially constructed and shaped by experience, influence or whatever

can not by definition, be inherent because it is a learned behavior
 
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red mpls said:
JChambers said:
red mpls said:
JChambers said:
You just said the term "femininity" is a social construct, therefore our society dictates what is feminine and what is masculine. In this time,place and context, a skirt is considered feminine. Don't try to backpedal now. Go to your family reunion in a dress and some lipstick and high heel pumps, and everyone there is gonna say you are dressed like a woman. Only in this internet fantasy world would anyone disagree with that. You can try to intellectualize it all you want, but in this reality, 2013 U.S.A., wearing a skirt and some stockings is considered feminine. If you wanna wear a skirt and live in this country and not be considered feminine, you are going to need a time machine.
Click to expand...

Yes it is considered feminine. It is not inherently feminine which is what you initially claimed and what I disputed. How difficult is this for you to understand?
Click to expand...

It is inherently feminine, according to the definition of femininity in our current culture, you can say it isn't inherently female, but inherently feminine is still correct. You need to get out of the house more. You can get lost in these ideas and go round and round to where nothing is concrete fact. Go put on a dress and walk around the mall and ask people if they think that you are dressed in a masculine fashion.
Click to expand...

Are you brain dead bro? :lol:

I have tried to be patient with explaining a very simple distinction to you which, at this point, it's cleat that you are either incapable of grasping or unwilling to acknowledge...
Click to expand...

Are you dense? Do you live in the real world where everything isn't bogged down with grammar and lost in abstractions.Nah, you live in a dream world where dresses and pantyhose aren't considered feminine. You sound ridiculous, trying to be pretentious. Our society ascribes the term "feminine" to dresses. That term is a social construct, therefore a dress is inherently feminine. Maybe it wasn't inherently feminine in the 1800s, it isn't inherently feminine in Scotland, but here, it is. You can argue semantics all you want, but a dress is inherently feminine in this culture and you are feminine if you wear one. If you wanna wear a dress or lipstick, that's fine, but don't try to change the definition of femininity so that it doesn't apply to you.What don't you understand? Straight from Wikipedia:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femininity

"Femininity (also called womanliness or womanhood) is a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with girls and women. Femininity is made up of both socially defined and biologically created factors.[1][2][3][4] This makes it distinct from the simple definition of the biological female sex,[5][6] as women, men, and transgender people can all exhibit feminine traits.

Behavioral traits generally considered feminine include copying Kanye's style and wearing skirts or pantyhose, gentleness, empathy, and sensitivity,[7][8] though traits associated with femininity often vary depending on location and context, and include a variety of social and cultural factors.[9] The counterpart to femininity is masculinity."
 
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...

You're so brainwashed bro it's really a shame. These same kinds of arguments were made to justify the enslavement and subsequent complete subordination of Black people in this hemisphere...
Click to expand...

I don't believe that to be an analogy that makes sense.  The treatment of minorities has nothing to do with the thousands of years of roles for Men and Women. 
Click to expand...
You don't want the analogy to make sense. Do you really think that gender roles were the same across every culture throughout all of history?
laugh.gif


And that is exactly like the justification for the oppression of Black people and other people of color. The oppressors argued that this was the "natural order" of things, the way things had always been. The same ridiculous argument that you're making right now when it comes to gender roles...
Click to expand...
What part of I don't agree with you don't you understand.  Also don't you realize that genetically men and women are different?  No matter what color you are.  Those genetic differences cause certain emotions and physical differences that play into how our culture is shaped.  The differences in skin color is no comparison to the differences in the sexes. 

Your point about "thats what they said before" doesn't make sense.  Science doesn't lose.  How can you argue with that.
 
ServeChilled81 said:
JChambers said:
red mpls said:
JChambers said:
You just said the term "femininity" is a social construct, therefore our society dictates what is feminine and what is masculine. In this time,place and context, a skirt is considered feminine. Don't try to backpedal now. Go to your family reunion in a dress and some lipstick and high heel pumps, and everyone there is gonna say you are dressed like a woman. Only in this internet fantasy world would anyone disagree with that. You can try to intellectualize it all you want, but in this reality, 2013 U.S.A., wearing a skirt and some stockings is considered feminine. If you wanna wear a skirt and live in this country and not be considered feminine, you are going to need a time machine.
Click to expand...


Yes it is considered feminine. It is not inherently feminine which is what you initially claimed and what I disputed. How difficult is this for you to understand?
Click to expand...


It is inherently feminine, according to the definition of femininity in our current culture, you can say it isn't inherently female, but inherently feminine is still correct. You need to get out of the house more.With all of these abstractions, you can get lost in these ideas and go round and round to where nothing is concrete fact. Go put on a dress and walk around the mall and ask people if they think that you are dressed in a masculine fashion.
Click to expand...
What he's saying is that something that is socially constructed and shaped by experience, influence or whatever
can not by definition, be inherent because it is a learned behavior
Click to expand...

Bro. Thank you.
 
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...
It's that some believe in progress. Simply because things have always been a certain way in life, doesn't mean that it's the correct way. Women used to not be allowed to own property and vote. What "science" dictated that? And why did it change? 

What's to believe about thousands of years of men being leaders? Have these men not lead millions upon millions into war and death? Have these men not committed genocide, mass murders, torture, rape, slavery, and other countless atrocities? Or do we only look at the good men when examining our past? 

Tell me, using "science", why a man is better suited to be the leader of a country and a woman is less suited. Don't forget to use physical stature and social skills in your explanation. Because as you say, "the hierarchy of men have been decided" by those factors. 

The issue has and always will be that rigid adherence to gender roles is a problematic concept. Not only is it based on a societal norm that changes from culture to culture, and evolves over time... but it's simply illogical at times. It's easy as a man to say gender roles are important and things should be a certain way because you're in a position of power. Don't be afraid and believe that men are suddenly marginalized. If you were to switch places with a woman, most people who argue for these archaic gender roles would not feel the same way. 
 
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ServeChilled81 said:
JChambers said:
red mpls said:
JChambers said:
You just said the term "femininity" is a social construct, therefore our society dictates what is feminine and what is masculine. In this time,place and context, a skirt is considered feminine. Don't try to backpedal now. Go to your family reunion in a dress and some lipstick and high heel pumps, and everyone there is gonna say you are dressed like a woman. Only in this internet fantasy world would anyone disagree with that. You can try to intellectualize it all you want, but in this reality, 2013 U.S.A., wearing a skirt and some stockings is considered feminine. If you wanna wear a skirt and live in this country and not be considered feminine, you are going to need a time machine.
Click to expand...


Yes it is considered feminine. It is not inherently feminine which is what you initially claimed and what I disputed. How difficult is this for you to understand?
Click to expand...


It is inherently feminine, according to the definition of femininity in our current culture, you can say it isn't inherently female, but inherently feminine is still correct. You need to get out of the house more.With all of these abstractions, you can get lost in these ideas and go round and round to where nothing is concrete fact. Go put on a dress and walk around the mall and ask people if they think that you are dressed in a masculine fashion.
Click to expand...
What he's saying is that something that is socially constructed and shaped by experience, influence or whatever
can not by definition, be inherent because it is a learned behavior
Click to expand...

I know what he's saying, he has grasped onto my possible misuse of the word "inherent" and is trying to argue semantics. Basically a straw man argument. Doesn't matter, my point still remains, whether wearing pantyhose is inherently feminine or just feminine, the fact remains, pantyhose and skirts are feminine articles of clothing. If he came in here just to argue semantics, he is a prick trying to display his intellect, rather than address the issue that was raised in this thread.
 
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PowerBallin said:
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...



You're so brainwashed bro it's really a shame. These same kinds of arguments were made to justify the enslavement and subsequent complete subordination of Black people in this hemisphere...
Click to expand...



I don't believe that to be an analogy that makes sense.  The treatment of minorities has nothing to do with the thousands of years of roles for Men and Women. 
Click to expand...


You don't want the analogy to make sense. Do you really think that gender roles were the same across every culture throughout all of history? :lol:


And that is exactly like the justification for the oppression of Black people and other people of color. The oppressors argued that this was the "natural order" of things, the way things had always been. The same ridiculous argument that you're making right now when it comes to gender roles...
Click to expand...


What part of I don't agree with you don't you understand.  Also don't you realize that genetically men and women are different?  No matter what color you are.  Those genetic differences cause certain emotions and physical differences that play into how our culture is shaped.  The differences in skin color is no comparison to the differences in the sexes. 

Your point about "thats what they said before" doesn't make sense.  Science doesn't lose.  How can you argue with that.
Click to expand...

Once again, you responded to nothing that I posted. OK...

Bro, please explain the "science" that dictates that males should be ridiculed for wearing tight pants. Please...
 
JChambers said:
Are you dense? Do you live in the real world where everything isn't bogged down with grammar and lost in abstractions.Nah, you live in a dream world where dresses and pantyhose aren't considered feminine. You sound ridiculous, trying to be pretentious. Our society ascribes the term "feminine" to dresses. That term is a social construct, therefore a dress is inherently feminine. Maybe it wasn't inherently feminine in the 1800s, it isn't inherently feminine in Scotland, but here, it is. You can argue semantics all you want, but a dress is inherently feminine in this culture and you are feminine if you wear one. If you wanna wear a dress or lipstick, that's fine, but don't try to change the definition of femininity so that it doesn't apply to you.What don't you understand? Straight from Wikipedia:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femininity

"Femininity (also called womanliness or womanhood) is a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with girls and women. Femininity is made up of both socially defined and biologically created factors.[1][2][3][4] This makes it distinct from the simple definition of the biological female sex,[5][6] as women, men, and transgender people can all exhibit feminine traits.

Behavioral traits generally considered feminine include copying Kanye's style and wearing skirts or pantyhose, gentleness, empathy, and sensitivity,[7][8] though traits associated with femininity often vary depending on location and context, and include a variety of social and cultural factors.[9] The counterpart to femininity is masculinity."
Click to expand...
That's flat out wrong.
 
Didnt read any posts but I was about to make a post this in the 'Weird things you do' or whatever the name of that post is. I had no idea people are really trying to/are making this a trend.

Shh is mad comfy though so i couldn't care less, ima keep rockin' my underarmor ones under some shorts or even pants sometimes to stay warmer on those cold nights :smokin
 
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Big J 33 said:
JChambers said:
 


Are you dense? Do you live in the real world where everything isn't bogged down with grammar and lost in abstractions.Nah, you live in a dream world where dresses and pantyhose aren't considered feminine. You sound ridiculous, trying to be pretentious. Our society ascribes the term "feminine" to dresses. That term is a social construct, therefore a dress is inherently feminine. Maybe it wasn't inherently feminine in the 1800s, it isn't inherently feminine in Scotland, but here, it is. You can argue semantics all you want, but a dress is inherently feminine in this culture and you are feminine if you wear one. If you wanna wear a dress or lipstick, that's fine, but don't try to change the definition of femininity so that it doesn't apply to you.What don't you understand? Straight from Wikipedia:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femininity


"Femininity (also called womanliness or womanhood) is a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with girls and women. Femininity is made up of both socially defined and biologically created factors.[1][2][3][4] This makes it distinct from the simple definition of the biological female sex,[5][6] as women, men, and transgender people can all exhibit feminine traits.


Behavioral traits generally considered feminine include copying Kanye's style and wearing skirts or pantyhose, gentleness, empathy, and sensitivity,[7][8] though traits associated with femininity often vary depending on location and context, and include a variety of social and cultural factors.[9] The counterpart to femininity is masculinity."
Click to expand...
That's flat out wrong.
Click to expand...

Read my last post.
 
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
red mpls said:
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...



You're so brainwashed bro it's really a shame. These same kinds of arguments were made to justify the enslavement and subsequent complete subordination of Black people in this hemisphere...
Click to expand...



I don't believe that to be an analogy that makes sense.  The treatment of minorities has nothing to do with the thousands of years of roles for Men and Women. 
Click to expand...


You don't want the analogy to make sense. Do you really think that gender roles were the same across every culture throughout all of history? :lol:


And that is exactly like the justification for the oppression of Black people and other people of color. The oppressors argued that this was the "natural order" of things, the way things had always been. The same ridiculous argument that you're making right now when it comes to gender roles...
Click to expand...


What part of I don't agree with you don't you understand.  Also don't you realize that genetically men and women are different?  No matter what color you are.  Those genetic differences cause certain emotions and physical differences that play into how our culture is shaped.  The differences in skin color is no comparison to the differences in the sexes. 

Your point about "thats what they said before" doesn't make sense.  Science doesn't lose.  How can you argue with that.
Click to expand...

Once again, you responded to nothing that I posted. OK...

Bro, please explain the "science" that dictates that males should be ridiculed for wearing tight pants. Please...
Click to expand...

So you came in here to argue semantics or you agree that wearing pantyhose and skirts is feminine? Because otherwise, I don't even know why you posted in here other than to express your knowledge of the dictionary.
 
Big J 33 said:
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...
It's that some believe in progress. Simply because things have always been a certain way in life, doesn't mean that it's the correct way. Women used to not be allowed to own property and vote. What "science" dictated that? And why did it change? 

What's to believe about thousands of years of men being leaders? Have these men not lead millions upon millions into war and death? Have these men not committed genocide, mass murders, torture, rape, slavery, and other countless atrocities? Or do we only look at the good men when examining our past? 

Tell me, using "science", why a man is better suited to be the leader of a country and a woman is less suited. Don't forget to use physical stature and social skills in your explanation. Because as you say, "the hierarchy of men have been decided" by those factors. 

The issue has and always will be that rigid adherence to gender roles is a problematic concept. Not only is it based on a societal norm that changes from culture to culture, and evolves over time... but it's simply illogical at times. It's easy as a man to say gender roles are important and things should be a certain way because you're in a position of power. Don't be afraid and believe that men are suddenly marginalized. If you were to switch places with a woman, most people who argue for these archaic gender roles would not feel the same way. 
Click to expand...
I've never said one is better than the other.  I've always said the sexes are equal not the same.  You have your opinion and I have mine.  All I ask is don't put words in my mouth or make assumptions.
 
J chambers, dawg, if you are willing to concede that item x is a social construct, then you have to accept that item x is not of natural occurrence, for a lack of better words and phrasing.

Honestly, I don't think you fully understand the concept that is "social construction".



...
 
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PowerBallin said:
Big J 33 said:
PowerBallin said:
It is popular belief on NT that the world hasn't been shaped the way it is for a reason.  They don't agree with science and believe in the genetic differences that control our emotional and physical differences.  This science isn't true to them.  They don't believe in the thousands of years of men being leaders.  They don't believe in the hierarchy of men being decided by a combination physical stature, intelligence, and social skills.  In their opinions women and men have no roles in life and any combination of people will result in a healthy productive relationship. 
Click to expand...
It's that some believe in progress. Simply because things have always been a certain way in life, doesn't mean that it's the correct way. Women used to not be allowed to own property and vote. What "science" dictated that? And why did it change? 

What's to believe about thousands of years of men being leaders? Have these men not lead millions upon millions into war and death? Have these men not committed genocide, mass murders, torture, rape, slavery, and other countless atrocities? Or do we only look at the good men when examining our past? 

Tell me, using "science", why a man is better suited to be the leader of a country and a woman is less suited. Don't forget to use physical stature and social skills in your explanation. Because as you say, "the hierarchy of men have been decided" by those factors. 

The issue has and always will be that rigid adherence to gender roles is a problematic concept. Not only is it based on a societal norm that changes from culture to culture, and evolves over time... but it's simply illogical at times. It's easy as a man to say gender roles are important and things should be a certain way because you're in a position of power. Don't be afraid and believe that men are suddenly marginalized. If you were to switch places with a woman, most people who argue for these archaic gender roles would not feel the same way. 
Click to expand...
I've never said one is better than the other.  I've always said the sexes are equal not the same.  You have your opinion and I have mine.  All I ask is don't put words in my mouth or make assumptions.
Click to expand...
What a cop out answer.
 
SuperAntigen said:
J chambers, dawg, if you are willing to concede that item x is a social construct, then you have to accept that item x is not of natural occurrence, for a lack of better words and phrasing.

Honestly, I don't think you fully understand the concept that is "social construction".



...
Click to expand...

Here you go:

social construct
Main Entry: social construct
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a social mechanism, phenomenon, or category created and developed by society; a perception of an individual, group, or idea that is 'constructed' through cultural or social practice


I will concede that "inherent" may not have been the proper term, but I am not saying that it is of natural occurrence. I said that our society perceives dresses and pantyhose as feminine, I honestly don't' think that you understand. A lot of you in here wanna argue and say that a dress, panties, etc. are not feminine. They are by definition "feminine" and ascribed to females in the current culture in our country. Argue terminology all you want, but this fact remains.
 
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