Let's face it, Jay-Z is the bar in which we compare rappers to because he is the best. PERIOD

ther's really no point in arguing this people see Jay's success and they want him to fail. point blank period.

The fact of the matter is their is never going to be a consensus best rapper of all time. But the stuff i'm seeing in here is ridiculous.

Jay doesnt have any classic albums
Jay hasn't influenced rap more than 50
Jay material isnt gonna be remembered down the road

but once again NT is the place where all the foolish statements are made ... so i'm just gonna back out of this
 
ninjahood said:
All eyez on me dropped in 96 and made jay-Z look like a LIL *****...cuz he was at that time.
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Shorty Doo Wop said:
Antidope said:
Addict4Sneakers said:
i don't like eminem at all, but i respect his work, talent, and his status as a legend. i wouldn't sit her and say "nas is flat out a better artist than him" solely based of my dislike for dude.
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But that is not why I am saying it. I truly in my heart of hearts do not believe Nas is better than JAY-Z. Why? Because no one is better than JAY-Z. It wouldnt matter if I loved the guy, because in my book JAY-Z is the unquestionable best. I love Eminem, I've bought all of his albums and have a sizeable amount of his non album music, but JAY-Z is flat out better than him, and everyone else. In my opinion of course.
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This makes no cents tho your not even giving any insight on why, your just saying cuz jay is the best
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How does it not make sense. Nas isnt better than JAY-Z because JAY-Z is the best. That is what the word best means, that there is no one superior. In regards to giving insight, we have had this conversation dozens of times already, my opinions about why JAY-Z is the greatest are well documented, I didnt see the point in restating what everyone already knows. Dont look at it as a shot to Nas, because if you did that, then it could be interpreted as a shot towards every rapper since there are none better than JAY-Z. Its about JAY-Z being the best, not about anyone being inferior.
Ballerific703 said:
Antidope said:
But that is not why I am saying it. I truly in my heart of hearts do not believe Nas is better than JAY-Z. Why? Because no one is better than JAY-Z. It wouldnt matter if I loved the guy, because in my book JAY-Z is the unquestionable best. I love Eminem, I've bought all of his albums and have a sizeable amount of his non album music, but JAY-Z is flat out better than him, and everyone else. In my opinion of course.
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Have you heard Kingdom Come, Blueprint 2 & 3, half of Vol. 1? I just don't understand how someone can feel like that.
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But those were all good albums epsecially Volume 1.... Its without a doubt his most under rated album
 
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beyonce can do glastonbury in 20 different countries, so can 50 cent, and eminem.
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Let's stick to talking about rap and rappers only ninjahood in regards to international fame and exposure.  No need to talk about the Beyonce's, Taylor Swift's, etc. as they are in another genre.  By the way, Jay Z was the first rapper to headline Glastonbury, and they key word is headline champ. 
did you see da infographic on get rich or die trying? jay-z has NEVER done that in his prime, and will never do that unless he actually tours da world.
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Yeah, that's a good point but in regards to then and now, Jay is still hot in the States AND internationally, while 50 is just hot internationally and not here in the States.  50 Cent tours overseas because his music and talents are no longer welcomed here in the States.  Meaning he's not even liked back home.  Here in America, 50 is just another ***** reduced to low-budget/straight to DVD movies.  He and his music are no longer welcomed here or in demand. 
there's a difference between being a man in da US, and being a international superstar, jay-z is no international superstar, he might make noise in some parts of europe, but

owning da world takes alot more then what jay-z has in his discography's firepower.
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That's the things you seem to not understand champ, Jay is the da man here in the States as a rapper and can at least be considered the da man internationally as well.  There's aren't many, maybe 2 other rappers at best that I would say are the da man here and overseas.  Again, even if you don't think Jay is the da man in both parts of the world, he's certainly up there.

Matter of fact, looking back on that Get Rich or Die Trying 10 year anniversary thread we see just how far 50 Cent has fallen.  Dude can barely get a release date these days......my how the mighty have fallen.  "Dam homie..............10 years ago you was da man homie, the **** happened to you?
The closing argument is it's on record and video, Jay was a huge NaS fan. Dude was dying to do a song with his idol. Has NaS ever said anything like that about Jay? No
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I like Nas alot, and like I said he's an all-time great, no doubt about it but let's be serious here, Nas hasn't really done much since Illmatic in the grand scheme of things and that was many, many years ago.  I'll give Nas absolute credit for making Illmatic and changing the game in his own right but he hasn't done much since.  Nas is the classic example of coming out of the gates strong and fast but not really being able to finish the race, same way with 50 Cent.  Just like at a horse race, just because a horse starts out of the gates fast and strong doesn't mean they will win the race or even cross the finish line. 

At least Nas is still running a good race while 50 Cent on the other hand fell down before the half way point of the race and will now have to be taken out back and shot dead to be processed as glue.   
All eyez on me dropped in 96 and made jay-Z look like a LIL *****...cuz he was at that time
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If that's the case, what did he make Biggie, your boy Nas, and your other boys Mobb Deep look like as well??
 
You know what Jay-Z is so smart about though that I'll give him so much credit for...

Riding the waves and popularity of others to keep himself in the spotlight and relevant over the years.

Ddue really is smart though and I can't knock him for it.

Align yourself with who's hot and the hottest producers to get the hottest beats... well planned by him and his team.

First he latched onto Biggie.

He tried to link up with NaS, but Esco knew his scheme and MO so he deaded that.

Then DMX

Then Ja Rule

Then he stood on his own for a little

He tried to align himself with Dipset once they got hot, but they had that falling out or whatever.

He got with Eminem to ride some of his wave.

Then he linked up with Wayne when Weezy was at the height of his popularity.

Now he's riding with Kanye, but once Ye isn't hot anymore or can't help Jay keep the spotlight on him anymore he'll kick him to the curb like everyone else.

Dude is for real for real like a horseshoe crab yo lol... he just keeps going into a new shell when he grows out or gets tired of the old one.

Hell Beyonce better keep up her superstar status because if her star begins to fall he might dead her behind since she can't help further his career or keep him in the spotlight too.
 
Putting In Work said:
You know what Jay-Z is so smart about though that I'll give him so much credit for...

Riding the waves and popularity of others to keep himself in the spotlight and relevant over the years.

Ddue really is smart though and I can't knock him for it.

Align yourself with who's hot and the hottest producers to get the hottest beats... well planned by him and his team.

First he latched onto Biggie.

He tried to link up with NaS, but Esco knew his scheme and MO so he deaded that.

Then DMX

Then Ja Rule

Then he stood on his own for a little

He tried to align himself with Dipset once they got hot, but they had that falling out or whatever.

He got with Eminem to ride some of his wave.

Then he linked up with Wayne when Weezy was at the height of his popularity.

Now he's riding with Kanye, but once Ye isn't hot anymore or can't help Jay keep the spotlight on him anymore he'll kick him to the curb like everyone else.

Dude is for real for real like a horseshoe crab yo lol... he just keeps going into a new shell when he grows out or gets tired of the old one.

Hell Beyonce better keep up her superstar status because if her star begins to fall he might dead her behind since she can't help further his career or keep him in the spotlight too.
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this is the truth right here....after reasonable doubt jays best **** was always with other ppl whether it was memphis bleek and beanie,or cam and now its kanye. In my eyes jay hasnt put anything of substance out for years I see alot of people on here saying hes the best rapper ever and that **** is crazy to me do you guys even listen to hip-hop
 
Putting In Work said:
You know what Jay-Z is so smart about though that I'll give him so much credit for...

Riding the waves and popularity of others to keep himself in the spotlight and relevant over the years.

Ddue really is smart though and I can't knock him for it.

Align yourself with who's hot and the hottest producers to get the hottest beats... well planned by him and his team.

First he latched onto Biggie.

He tried to link up with NaS, but Esco knew his scheme and MO so he deaded that.

Then DMX

Then Ja Rule

Then he stood on his own for a little

He tried to align himself with Dipset once they got hot, but they had that falling out or whatever.

He got with Eminem to ride some of his wave.

Then he linked up with Wayne when Weezy was at the height of his popularity.

Now he's riding with Kanye, but once Ye isn't hot anymore or can't help Jay keep the spotlight on him anymore he'll kick him to the curb like everyone else.

Dude is for real for real like a horseshoe crab yo lol... he just keeps going into a new shell when he grows out or gets tired of the old one.

Hell Beyonce better keep up her superstar status because if her star begins to fall he might dead her behind since she can't help further his career or keep him in the spotlight too.
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Quoted for the ******* truth that it is! I am surprised that not many people recognize this. Don't forget that he was a thug when he was hang'n wit Beans tho. This is exactly why I said he should change his name to Great White, he takes a bite out of everyones swags. Ye captured this and put it on record, the song is called Big Brother. "I told Jay I got a song with Cold Play, Next thing I know he got a song wit Cold Play" lol
 
Dudes are making all kinds of excuses for Jay's success
laugh.gif
.  "He linked up with Ja Rule", "he linked up with DMX", "he linked up with Kanye", "he linked with the late great Marvin Gaye without his permission".  One fraudulent point followed by another fraudulent point and so on and so forth.  I'm surprised Jay being linked up with the "Illuminati" hasn't been mentioned yet, but I'm sure that's on the way.  I'm guessing dudes are going to say he asked to be apart of that too.
 
Deuce King said:
What he's saying are two different things you're completely missing though
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No I get what he's saying but his original statement is flawed because I know that he personally feels that Nas is a better rapper than Jay and that's fine cause it's his opinion of course but with that being said Jay has sold more records than Nas, so where does that leave his point of Em selling more records than Jay thus being better than Jay COMBINED with him saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay.  Had ninjahood just stuck with saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay as his argument, then maybe he could draw up an argument or discussion from that, but when he threw in the point of Em selling more records than Jay, ninjahood managed to shot himself and his thesis in the foot. 
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I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those two statements do not address or contradict this question your asking. He said two things, that Jay isn't a better rapper than Nas and hasn't sold more than Em. So if this was a thread about Em he'd just say Em is not a better rapper than Nas. The two requirements ninjahood basically brought up in order to be the best rapper or at least what most ppl commonly bring up to say somebody is the best rapper Jay-Z does not meet. However, both Em and Nas would meet one of them. Nas being a better rapper than Jay has nothing to do with Em selling more than Jay.

He didn't shoot his thesis in the foot though. He's simply saying in order to be considered the best rapper you'd have to be the best lyrically or at least sell the most records. They're two different arguments, two different statements that preemptively counteract two different topics.
 
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Shorty Doo Wop said:
If you think nas hasnt done much since illmatic how in the blue hell can you not say that about jay
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Basically, jay-Z's best album is STILL reasonable Doubt & its STILL not better

Then illmatic or it was written.

Eminem sold more records then Jay-Z with less solo albums.

50 & eminem both beat jay-Z internationally by a WIDE margin.

Like i said before, jay-Z is elite, but da best? Nope.

Hell if tupac & biggie were still alive jay-z would go back to being

2nd tier.
 
Master Zik said:
Deuce King said:
What he's saying are two different things you're completely missing though
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No I get what he's saying but his original statement is flawed because I know that he personally feels that Nas is a better rapper than Jay and that's fine cause it's his opinion of course but with that being said Jay has sold more records than Nas, so where does that leave his point of Em selling more records than Jay thus being better than Jay COMBINED with him saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay.  Had ninjahood just stuck with saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay as his argument, then maybe he could draw up an argument or discussion from that, but when he threw in the point of Em selling more records than Jay, ninjahood managed to shot himself and his thesis in the foot. 
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I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those two statements do not address or contradict this question your asking. He said two things, that Jay isn't a better rapper than Nas and hasn't sold more than Em. So if this was a thread about Em he'd just say Em is not a better rapper than Nas. The two requirements ninjahood basically brought up in order to be the best rapper or at least what most ppl commonly bring up to say somebody is the best rapper Jay-Z does not meet. However, both Em and Nas would meet one of them. Nas being a better rapper than Jay has nothing to do with Em selling more than Jay.

He didn't shoot his thesis in the foot though. He's simply saying in order to be considered the best rapper you'd have to be the best lyrically or at least sell the most records. They're two different arguments, two different statements that preemptively counteract two different topics.
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Yeah this crossed my mind as well, however it still makes no sense. If thats really what he meant then its also illogical. Going by this, there would be two best rappers, which isnt possible. Then theres the third option of just saying that you have to meet at least one of those two criteria and then thats that. But that leaves the question unanswered with two candidates available so what is the point of that? Just to slander Hov and then not even submit a candidate for who is the true best rapper?

No matter how you slice it, his argument makes no sense
 
Antidope said:
Master Zik said:
Deuce King said:
What he's saying are two different things you're completely missing though
Click to expand...


No I get what he's saying but his original statement is flawed because I know that he personally feels that Nas is a better rapper than Jay and that's fine cause it's his opinion of course but with that being said Jay has sold more records than Nas, so where does that leave his point of Em selling more records than Jay thus being better than Jay COMBINED with him saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay.  Had ninjahood just stuck with saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay as his argument, then maybe he could draw up an argument or discussion from that, but when he threw in the point of Em selling more records than Jay, ninjahood managed to shot himself and his thesis in the foot. 
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I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those two statements do not address or contradict this question your asking. He said two things, that Jay isn't a better rapper than Nas and hasn't sold more than Em. So if this was a thread about Em he'd just say Em is not a better rapper than Nas. The two requirements ninjahood basically brought up in order to be the best rapper or at least what most ppl commonly bring up to say somebody is the best rapper Jay-Z does not meet. However, both Em and Nas would meet one of them. Nas being a better rapper than Jay has nothing to do with Em selling more than Jay.


He didn't shoot his thesis in the foot though. He's simply saying in order to be considered the best rapper you'd have to be the best lyrically or at least sell the most records. They're two different arguments, two different statements that preemptively counteract two different topics.
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Yeah this crossed my mind as well, however it still makes no sense. If thats really what he meant then its also illogical. Going by this, there would be two best rappers, which isnt possible. Then theres the third option of just saying that you have to meet at least one of those two criteria and then thats that. But that leaves the question unanswered with two candidates available so what is the point of that? Just to slander Hov and then not even submit a candidate for who is the true best rapper?

No matter how you slice it, his argument makes no sense
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You can't be ******g serious :smh: :rofl:

No, no, no, no.

Going by his logic there isn't two best rappers. If selling the most records and being the best lyrically are the only requirements for being the best rapper then there currently isn't a best rapper. Two rappers having one of the two does not mean both are the best. It would just mean those two are a lot closer than the other person named. I don't know how you came to such a faulty conclusion given what's just been discussed. You need to rethink everything thoroughly and explain how what you said even makes sense. Don't let it just cross your mind, dwell on it. You're either assuming things not said or just making **** up.

There is no 3rd option. Nobody even hinted at what you just said.

If the question is who is the best rapper and there is no answer currently that does not mean the point was to slander or libel Jay-Z. None of that is present. All it means is Jay-Z is not the best rapper. Going by what ninjahood said, he couldn't be if one guy sold more than him and another guy is better than him lyrically. It's no different than someone saying Coolio is the best rapper and someone naming better rappers that have sold more and are better lyrically.

The way you want to add things and twist what he said is what's not making sense to me. What ninjahood said is pretty cut and dry.
 
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ninjahood said:
NationalTruckerDave said:
FrankTheTank said:
So there are legit people thinking Jay-Z is better than Tupac? Biggie? Nas? and Em? 
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Jay-Z is way better than Tupac, Tupac is extra overrated
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All eyez on me dropped in 96 and made jay-Z look like a LIL *****...cuz he was at that time.
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Yeah I remember, my mom loved that album

But Tupac has way more trash albums than good ones

Only reason people always saying Tupac is one of the GOATs is because he's dead
 
Master Zik said:
Deuce King said:
What he's saying are two different things you're completely missing though
Click to expand...
No I get what he's saying but his original statement is flawed because I know that he personally feels that Nas is a better rapper than Jay and that's fine cause it's his opinion of course but with that being said Jay has sold more records than Nas, so where does that leave his point of Em selling more records than Jay thus being better than Jay COMBINED with him saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay.  Had ninjahood just stuck with saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay as his argument, then maybe he could draw up an argument or discussion from that, but when he threw in the point of Em selling more records than Jay, ninjahood managed to shot himself and his thesis in the foot. 
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I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those two statements do not address or contradict this question your asking. He said two things, that Jay isn't a better rapper than Nas and hasn't sold more than Em. So if this was a thread about Em he'd just say Em is not a better rapper than Nas. The two requirements ninjahood basically brought up in order to be the best rapper or at least what most ppl commonly bring up to say somebody is the best rapper Jay-Z does not meet. However, both Em and Nas would meet one of them. Nas being a better rapper than Jay has nothing to do with Em selling more than Jay.

He didn't shoot his thesis in the foot though. He's simply saying in order to be considered the best rapper you'd have to be the best lyrically or at least sell the most records. They're two different arguments, two different statements that preemptively counteract two different topics.
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The final verdict of proving which rapper sold the most records is a factual statement and outcome, trying to prove who is the most lyrical rapper is still an opinionated statement whether it's given by me, ninjahood, you, or anyone else for the matter.  Record sales is somewhat apart of the equation but it's not the end all be all, especially in rap.
50 & eminem both beat jay-Z internationally by a WIDE margin.
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I'm not sure why you or anyone else for that matter keep mentioning 50.  As I stated earlier, here in the States 50 is irrelevant and pretty much on life support if he isn't musical dead already.  No release date in site after 3 years after one failed attempt after another and little to no interest from the public.  50 Cent is on that treadmill champ, with Juelz trailing slightly behind and Cam'ron even further behind those 2
laugh.gif
.  As far as 50 still having international appeal, look at it like this, the way YOU ninjahood view the South and catching on to fashion trends years late or always being behind the curve is how the international appeal for 50 is still there but here back home it isn't.  Reason being is because we here in the States no better, overseas folks are still playing catch up so to speak, just like you say the South is still playing catch up.  Just wanted to bring everything around for you full circle champ and use analogies and examples that you can relate to.
 
Master Zik said:
Antidope said:
Master Zik said:
Deuce King said:
What he's saying are two different things you're completely missing though
Click to expand...

No I get what he's saying but his original statement is flawed because I know that he personally feels that Nas is a better rapper than Jay and that's fine cause it's his opinion of course but with that being said Jay has sold more records than Nas, so where does that leave his point of Em selling more records than Jay thus being better than Jay COMBINED with him saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay.  Had ninjahood just stuck with saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay as his argument, then maybe he could draw up an argument or discussion from that, but when he threw in the point of Em selling more records than Jay, ninjahood managed to shot himself and his thesis in the foot. 
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I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those two statements do not address or contradict this question your asking. He said two things, that Jay isn't a better rapper than Nas and hasn't sold more than Em. So if this was a thread about Em he'd just say Em is not a better rapper than Nas. The two requirements ninjahood basically brought up in order to be the best rapper or at least what most ppl commonly bring up to say somebody is the best rapper Jay-Z does not meet. However, both Em and Nas would meet one of them. Nas being a better rapper than Jay has nothing to do with Em selling more than Jay.


He didn't shoot his thesis in the foot though. He's simply saying in order to be considered the best rapper you'd have to be the best lyrically or at least sell the most records. They're two different arguments, two different statements that preemptively counteract two different topics.
Click to expand...
Yeah this crossed my mind as well, however it still makes no sense. If thats really what he meant then its also illogical. Going by this, there would be two best rappers, which isnt possible. Then theres the third option of just saying that you have to meet at least one of those two criteria and then thats that. But that leaves the question unanswered with two candidates available so what is the point of that? Just to slander Hov and then not even submit a candidate for who is the true best rapper?

No matter how you slice it, his argument makes no sense
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You can't be ******g serious
mean.gif
roll.gif


No, no, no, no.

Going by his logic there isn't two best rappers. If selling the most records and being the best lyrically are the only requirements for being the best rapper then there currently isn't a best rapper. Two rappers having one of the two does not mean both are the best. It would just mean those two are a lot closer than the other person named. I don't know how you came to such a faulty conclusion given what's just been discussed. You need to rethink everything thoroughly and explain how what you said even makes sense. Don't let it just cross your mind, dwell on it. You're either assuming things not said or just making **** up.

There is no 3rd option. Nobody even hinted at what you just said.

If the question is who is the best rapper and there is no answer currently that does not mean the point was to slander or libel Jay-Z. None of that is present. All it means is Jay-Z is not the best rapper. Going by what ninjahood said, he couldn't be if one guy sold more than him and another guy is better than him lyrically. It's no different than someone saying Coolio is the best rapper and someone naming better rappers that have sold more and are better lyrically.

The way you want to add things and twist what he said is what's not making sense to me. What ninjahood said is pretty cut and dry.
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But how can that be if Ninjahood has made it clear he thinks theres a best rapper? Unless I am confused, he has mentioned that he thinks there is a best rapper somewhere in this thread. What youre saying is making sense, but Ninjahood is trying to drive home a point that surpasses this.

I know nobody hinted at it, I brought that one to the table.

You see this makes sense, but that is not the message that I'm getting from Ninjahood. Ninjahood has been trying to make it perfectly clear that not only is JAY-Z not the best rapper, but that he shouldnt be in the conversation. Saying things like he only has one good album, and that hes all flow, no lyrics, not internationally strong, etc etc. Your opinion and his arent the same, hes taking it up to 11 right now and is in fact downplaying JAY-Zs credentials and ability.
 
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illphillip said:
One the color coding comes out, you know **** is reaching epic levels of lame.....
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I am at work, I dont have the time to cut up posts and paste them into their own quote boxes. This is faster. Guess I'm lame for wanting to save time now.
 
Putting In Work said:
You know what Jay-Z is so smart about though that I'll give him so much credit for...

Riding the waves and popularity of others to keep himself in the spotlight and relevant over the years.

Ddue really is smart though and I can't knock him for it.

Align yourself with who's hot and the hottest producers to get the hottest beats... well planned by him and his team.

First he latched onto Biggie.

He tried to link up with NaS, but Esco knew his scheme and MO so he deaded that.

Then DMX

Then Ja Rule

Then he stood on his own for a little

He tried to align himself with Dipset once they got hot, but they had that falling out or whatever.

He got with Eminem to ride some of his wave.

Then he linked up with Wayne when Weezy was at the height of his popularity.

Now he's riding with Kanye, but once Ye isn't hot anymore or can't help Jay keep the spotlight on him anymore he'll kick him to the curb like everyone else.

Dude is for real for real like a horseshoe crab yo lol... he just keeps going into a new shell when he grows out or gets tired of the old one.

Hell Beyonce better keep up her superstar status because if her star begins to fall he might dead her behind since she can't help further his career or keep him in the spotlight too.
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This guy . . . he really thinks a feature or getting some production means "linking up"

How in the hell did he ride Eminem's wave? DMX? Ja Rule?

Dame brought in Dipset to Roc.

He was trying to sign Wayne, but Wayne stayed with Universal because they gave him a label.

He rides with Ye because Ye rode with him when Roc split.
 
Deuce King said:
Master Zik said:
Deuce King said:
What he's saying are two different things you're completely missing though
Click to expand...


No I get what he's saying but his original statement is flawed because I know that he personally feels that Nas is a better rapper than Jay and that's fine cause it's his opinion of course but with that being said Jay has sold more records than Nas, so where does that leave his point of Em selling more records than Jay thus being better than Jay COMBINED with him saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay.  Had ninjahood just stuck with saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay as his argument, then maybe he could draw up an argument or discussion from that, but when he threw in the point of Em selling more records than Jay, ninjahood managed to shot himself and his thesis in the foot. 
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I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those two statements do not address or contradict this question your asking. He said two things, that Jay isn't a better rapper than Nas and hasn't sold more than Em. So if this was a thread about Em he'd just say Em is not a better rapper than Nas. The two requirements ninjahood basically brought up in order to be the best rapper or at least what most ppl commonly bring up to say somebody is the best rapper Jay-Z does not meet. However, both Em and Nas would meet one of them. Nas being a better rapper than Jay has nothing to do with Em selling more than Jay.


He didn't shoot his thesis in the foot though. He's simply saying in order to be considered the best rapper you'd have to be the best lyrically or at least sell the most records. They're two different arguments, two different statements that preemptively counteract two different topics.
Click to expand...

The final verdict of proving which rapper sold the most records is a factual statement and outcome, trying to prove who is the most lyrical rapper is still an opinionated statement whether it's given by me, ninjahood, you, or anyone else for the matter.  Record sales is somewhat apart of the equation but it's not the end all be all, especially in rap.

50
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I'm not sure why you or anyone else for that matter keep mentioning 50.  As I stated earlier, here in the States 50 is irrelevant and pretty much on life support if he isn't musical dead already.  No release date in site after 3 years after one failed attempt after another and little to no interest from the public.  50 Cent is on that treadmill champ, with Juelz trailing slightly behind and Cam'ron even further behind those 2 :lol: .  As far as 50 still having international appeal, look at it like this, the way YOU ninjahood view the South and catching on to fashion trends years late or always being behind the curve is how the international appeal for 50 is still there but here back home it isn't.  Reason being is because we here in the States no better, overseas folks are still playing catch up so to speak, just like you say the South is still playing catch up.  Just wanted to bring everything around for you full circle champ and use analogies and examples that you can relate to.
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While international & da south do be late on trends, jay-Z had a SEVEN year head start

To get hot globally, & 50 lapped him in ONE album.

Thats nuffin to sneeze at.

You cant say 50 dead musically when his last album still went GOLD after leaking a month early

Online. I say right now jay-Z & 50 cent are standing on equal footing, which says

More about 50 cent who's career is da epitome of starting off on da wrong foot.
 
Antidope said:
Master Zik said:
Antidope said:
Master Zik said:
Deuce King said:
What he's saying are two different things you're completely missing though
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No I get what he's saying but his original statement is flawed because I know that he personally feels that Nas is a better rapper than Jay and that's fine cause it's his opinion of course but with that being said Jay has sold more records than Nas, so where does that leave his point of Em selling more records than Jay thus being better than Jay COMBINED with him saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay.  Had ninjahood just stuck with saying Nas is more lyrical than Jay as his argument, then maybe he could draw up an argument or discussion from that, but when he threw in the point of Em selling more records than Jay, ninjahood managed to shot himself and his thesis in the foot. 
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I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those two statements do not address or contradict this question your asking. He said two things, that Jay isn't a better rapper than Nas and hasn't sold more than Em. So if this was a thread about Em he'd just say Em is not a better rapper than Nas. The two requirements ninjahood basically brought up in order to be the best rapper or at least what most ppl commonly bring up to say somebody is the best rapper Jay-Z does not meet. However, both Em and Nas would meet one of them. Nas being a better rapper than Jay has nothing to do with Em selling more than Jay.



He didn't shoot his thesis in the foot though. He's simply saying in order to be considered the best rapper you'd have to be the best lyrically or at least sell the most records. They're two different arguments, two different statements that preemptively counteract two different topics.
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Yeah this crossed my mind as well, however it still makes no sense. If thats really what he meant then its also illogical. Going by this, there would be two best rappers, which isnt possible. Then theres the third option of just saying that you have to meet at least one of those two criteria and then thats that. But that leaves the question unanswered with two candidates available so what is the point of that? Just to slander Hov and then not even submit a candidate for who is the true best rapper?


No matter how you slice it, his argument makes no sense
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You can't be ******g serious :smh: :rofl:


No, no, no, no.

Going by his logic there isn't two best rappers. If selling the most records and being the best lyrically are the only requirements for being the best rapper then there currently isn't a best rapper. Two rappers having one of the two does not mean both are the best. It would just mean those two are a lot closer than the other person named. I don't know how you came to such a faulty conclusion given what's just been discussed. You need to rethink everything thoroughly and explain how what you said even makes sense. Don't let it just cross your mind, dwell on it. You're either assuming things not said or just making **** up.


There is no 3rd option. Nobody even hinted at what you just said.

If the question is who is the best rapper and there is no answer currently that does not mean the point was to slander or libel Jay-Z. None of that is present. All it means is Jay-Z is not the best rapper. Going by what ninjahood said, he couldn't be if one guy sold more than him and another guy is better than him lyrically. It's no different than someone saying Coolio is the best rapper and someone naming better rappers that have sold more and are better lyrically.


The way you want to add things and twist what he said is what's not making sense to me. What ninjahood said is pretty cut and dry.
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But how can that be if Ninjahood has made it clear he thinks theres a best rapper? Unless I am confused, he has mentioned that he thinks there is a best rapper somewhere in this thread. What youre saying is making sense, but Ninjahood is trying to drive home a point that surpasses this.

I know nobody hinted at it, I brought that one to the table.


You see this makes sense, but that is not the message that I'm getting from Ninjahood. Ninjahood has been trying to make it perfectly clear that not only is JAY-Z not the best rapper, but that he shouldnt be in the conversation. Saying things like he only has one good album, and that hes all flow, no lyrics, not internationally strong, etc etc. Your opinion and his arent the same, hes taking it up to 11 right now and is in fact downplaying JAY-Zs credentials and ability.
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Well I haven't read every singly one of ninjahood's posts. I know he's made it clear he feels Nas is better than Jay and he's harped on no Jay-Z album being better than Illmatic or IWW but I haven't seen him champion one specific rapper as the bar none best.

Jay-Z isn't the best rapper imo. I wouldn't consider him. I'd think of Nas, Big, Pac, Ra, and even Ghost before I looked at Jay at this point. I got most of his albums or the good/great ones atleast so I can judge off that and whereas I'd admit he's managed to have the best rap career, where that can be seen as a blueprint for other rappers to get the most fame out of rapping that puts them in a light where many think they're the best rapper even though that isn't the case but that's about it. I may not agree 100% with everything ninjahood has said (especially since I haven't read everything he's said in this thread) but what you just mentioned I wouldn't disagree a whole lot with. I think I read ninja saying Jay's best album is RD not hat he only has one good album. He was mainly known for his flow more than his lyrics at first, that's improved but not to a drastic degree where you'd rank him as the top lyricst.

I think he may be downplaying Jay cuz Jay-Z stans overrate the hell out of him constantly or maybe he actually believes everything he's said cuz it isn't a fact to him (especially provable facts about Jay's ability in comparison) and he's just stating his opinion.
 
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