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Let's face it, Jay-Z is the bar in which we compare rappers to because he is the best. PERIOD - Page 3

post #61 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antidope View Post

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post #62 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by VA757VA View Post

illmatic = reasonable doubt
You're insane. Jay-Z doesn't even believe that and he'd smack you if you said that.

Just cuz a ***** self titles himself the greatest, doesn't mean that he is.
post #63 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRockford View Post

Take all of the "greats" (Em, Nas, Big, Pac, Jay) in their prime and put them all on the same wack beat, no chorus help or anything. Jay's song will be the worst (not meaning it will be bad). I would bet my last dollar on it. Thats a big picture for you. Take Big and Pac out of the equation, and do it right now. You will get the same result.

Lies on top of lies on top of lies. I don't even like arguing hypothetical questions but this one is doable because Jay has songs with some of the people listed. Look at Renegade, Em an Jay verse were equal. People say Em killed Jay but they both went hard, and they balanced each other out. An that beat was made by Em he should have obliterated Hov but he didn't. So that's how that go. Look at Brooklyn's Finest...once again Jay was not outshines or outclassed. They both went hard. If anything, you could make the point Jay went harder, he had more quotables on the song, Look at Success and Black Republicans...Jay killed Nas on both...nothin more to be said. People acting like Jay is just some slouch. He got bars an bars for days. Has he gotten comfortable...yes. But he will stick rap circles around anyone...save for Em. They'reequal in my eyes..rap wise. But Jay got it overall career wise,
post #64 of 417
It's pretty funny people debate the Renegade song when Em's verse was laid down with Royce Da 5'9" probably weeks to months in advance, and Jay-Z still couldn't write or "freestyle" a verse better than Em's.
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post #65 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico x Hood View Post


Lies on top of lies on top of lies. I don't even like arguing hypothetical questions but this one is doable because Jay has songs with some of the people listed. Look at Renegade, Em an Jay verse were equal. People say Em killed Jay but they both went hard, and they balanced each other out. An that beat was made by Em he should have obliterated Hov but he didn't. So that's how that go. Look at Brooklyn's Finest...once again Jay was not outshines or outclassed. They both went hard. If anything, you could make the point Jay went harder, he had more quotables on the song, Look at Success and Black Republicans...Jay killed Nas on both...nothin more to be said. People acting like Jay is just some slouch. He got bars an bars for days. Has he gotten comfortable...yes. But he will stick rap circles around anyone...save for Em. They'reequal in my eyes..rap wise. But Jay got it overall career wise,

 

Stop reading after dude said Em and Jay's verses were equal. Seriously,  "Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?"

post #66 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peep Game View Post

It's pretty funny people debate the Renegade song when Em's verse was laid down with Royce Da 5'9" probably weeks to months in advance, and Jay-Z still couldn't write or "freestyle" a verse better than Em's.
Those ppl ignore the hell out of that laugh.gif
post #67 of 417
Jay killed Nas on black republicans and success? Em and Jay were equal on renagades? laugh.gif straight nonsense.
post #68 of 417
Jay killed Nas on black republicans and success? Em and Jay were equal on renagades? laugh.gif straight nonsense.
post #69 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico x Hood View Post

Lies on top of lies on top of lies. I don't even like arguing hypothetical questions but this one is doable because Jay has songs with some of the people listed. Look at Renegade, Em an Jay verse were equal. People say Em killed Jay but they both went hard, and they balanced each other out. An that beat was made by Em he should have obliterated Hov but he didn't. So that's how that go. Look at Brooklyn's Finest...once again Jay was not outshines or outclassed. They both went hard. If anything, you could make the point Jay went harder, he had more quotables on the song, Look at Success and Black Republicans...Jay killed Nas on both...nothin more to be said. People acting like Jay is just some slouch. He got bars an bars for days. Has he gotten comfortable...yes. But he will stick rap circles around anyone...save for Em. They'reequal in my eyes..rap wise. But Jay got it overall career wise,

No. Not duets, because we are separating them as individuals. making their own songs.

Not battles because I will not buy a song/CD of a battle. They are artists, and to be considered "great" you should be able to make a good/decent song from any beat right?

How can it be lies when musical preference is based on opinion? And please don't feed me that numbers BS..
post #70 of 417
Having the better verse in a song that both were featured on doesnt hold that much weight to me honestly cause its not a guarantee whether either of the rappers were trying spit their best verse
post #71 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRockford View Post

Take all of the "greats" (Em, Nas, Big, Pac, Jay) in their prime and put them all on the same wack beat, no chorus help or anything. Jay's song will be the worst (not meaning it will be bad). I would bet my last dollar on it. Thats a big picture for you. Take Big and Pac out of the equation, and do it right now. You will get the same result.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural Mystic View Post

Jay killed Nas on black republicans and success? Em and Jay were equal on renagades? laugh.gif straight nonsense.


He didnt? The two songs where clear slaughters, Nas wasnt saying a damn thing. Google Earth, Converse, and whatever nonsense inbetween. It wasnt even close especially on Black Republican. They were equal on renegades, just becuase one guy was more notorious at the time and had a more controversial topic to speak about doesnt mean his verse was better.

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post #72 of 417

I think the OP is a fair statement. 

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post #73 of 417

This question is too subjective.

 

Is he the best lyricist? best artist? what?

 

It all depends what people consider lyrical.  Id rather hear triple entendres than "Rappers, I monkey flip em with the funky rythm"

 

Jay probably has the best balance out of rappers, hence is GOAT title.  I know regular ****** in the hood with flow like any said rapper mentioned in this thread, but nobody puts it all together like Jay.  I used to be a Lupe and Nas stan off their flows and subject matter, and a few punchlines here and there.  The more I listened that **** got old quick...

post #74 of 417
It's obvious people are just fueled by hate in here.

I'm not gonna talk numbers because content speaks for itself. I encourage everyone to listen to the songs mentioned an come back with their opinions.
Edited by Rico x Hood - 2/3/13 at 2:29pm
post #75 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antidope View Post






He didnt? The two songs where clear slaughters, Nas wasnt saying a damn thing. Google Earth, Converse, and whatever nonsense inbetween. It wasnt even close especially on Black Republican. They were equal on renegades, just becuase one guy was more notorious at the time and had a more controversial topic to speak about doesnt mean his verse was better.

Slaughter? LOL. Only in your warped world did Jay slaughter Nas on any of those tracks. All jay talked about on black republicans was his divorce from Dame. Nas ripped that track. The only track I can say they were equal on is success. Neither of them said **** on that track. I'm not even gonna bother to talk about renegade because Jay's ballsack is hindering your view.
post #76 of 417
Dudes is wyling w outlandish statements lol

Man Hov is the GOAT...get over it. Poll the rappers, poll the fans(racially balanced), poll the media...

dude said the ppl crowned NaS the greatest?!?! Since when?? aint nobody touching the fanbase Hov created over the years. And you cant count Em cuz of you know why.
post #77 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein View Post

Dudes is wyling w outlandish statements lol

Man Hov is the GOAT...get over it. Poll the rappers, poll the fans(racially balanced), poll the media...

dude said the ppl crowned NaS the greatest?!?! Since when?? aint nobody touching the fanbase Hov created over the years. And you cant count Em cuz of you know why.

Dumb.. Why can't you count Em? Because he has sold more records than Hov with less time and albums?
Consider this, Hov is another self proclaimed King.
Hov does a majority of his numbers in the US. Em has a world wide fan base.

If your going to debate, at least do it like a man and come with something. How old are you, like 12 or somethin?
post #78 of 417
How does one not understand what Nas is talking about on Success?
post #79 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addict4Sneakers View Post

How does one not understand what Nas is talking about on Success?

They were still stuck on how "real" Jay's verse was
post #80 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthagreat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xBuddha Blessx View Post

Not surprised at who made this thread.

Fallacies upon fallacies.

Might as well rename it Jay-Z Stan Convention. I mean really man were your jimmies that rustled by that SDE thread? laugh.gif

and you are?
The same Buddha Bless since I first posted in the music forum. Have you gone senile? or do you need to wipe that ol man jiggga spunk off your eyes?
post #81 of 417
First of all im a big fan of both Jay z and eminem but I just cant see how anybody on earth can say Jays part in Renegade was better, or even equal to Ems. This comes up alot and im shocked everytime people try to debate it.
post #82 of 417
The best? At what? I'm serious.

The two things Jay has to his credit:

1. He's rich

2. He's still alive (making him an elder statesman of sorts in the rap game. This latter point has also largely influenced the former point).

These are honestly the only reasons why he, debatably, the best.

We can make arguments about how Nas, KRS-1, Eminem, and a litany of other rappers are better at the craft than he is, but in the end, because money supposedly talks, naysayers will refuse to consider the voices of other rappers in a conversation about the "best." Thus, here, we can see how his riches have made him, dubiously, the best.

Now, you can't have a legitimate conversation about the "best" in the rap game until you involve Big and Pac in the discussion. And I think you'd be hard pressed to find any contemporary rapper who hasn't been influenced by those two in some shape or form. I think this alone speaks to the supremacy of those two. We cannot say this about Jay, however. The only thing Jay has over those two is the fact that he's still alive. Their untimely demise, with particular emphasis on Big's death, literally paved the way for Jay. Had they been alive, would Jay be doing it as he is now? We'll never know, and frankly it's pointless musing over fantasies. But, I bring it up merely to show that Jay isn't "undisputed," word to that "PERIOD" nonsense.

If y'all are going o regard him as the best, then do it properly by qualifying "best" with an asterisk.





...
post #83 of 417

minus big and pac.....is Jay the best alive? I'd say yes

post #84 of 417
I hate this topic. Hov slurpers gon slurp. Nas is the GOAT IN MY OPINION. There's nothing anybody can say to change my mind, no matter how hard Antidope may try. Illmatic > IWW >Stillmatic > Reasonable Doubt. It's not even close.
post #85 of 417

da bottomline is jay-z isn't da best at anything, sure he got classics but people got better albums than him, and he was never

 

da volume seller that other artists are either.

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post #86 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm9312 View Post

I hate this topic. Hov slurpers gon slurp. Nas is the GOAT IN MY OPINION. There's nothing anybody can say to change my mind, no matter how hard Antidope may try. Illmatic > IWW >Stillmatic > Reasonable Doubt. It's not even close.
Not trying to change anyones mind, that would be pointless. All I came in here to do was agree with the OP then the thread went in the direction that it was inevitably going to go in so I contributed. JAY-Z > NaS and its not even close IMO.
Edited by Antidope - 2/4/13 at 3:36am
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post #87 of 417
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xBuddha Blessx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthagreat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xBuddha Blessx View Post

Not surprised at who made this thread.

Fallacies upon fallacies.

Might as well rename it Jay-Z Stan Convention. I mean really man were your jimmies that rustled by that SDE thread? laugh.gif

and you are?
The same Buddha Bless since I first posted in the music forum. Have you gone senile? or do you need to wipe that ol man jiggga spunk off your eyes?

i mean, i guess i dont remember you. i was thinkin we had some sort of history or somethin8o
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post #88 of 417
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperAntigen View Post

The best? At what? I'm serious.

The two things Jay has to his credit:

1. He's rich

2. He's still alive (making him an elder statesman of sorts in the rap game. This latter point has also largely influenced the former point).


These are honestly the only reasons why he, debatably, the best.

We can make arguments about how Nas, KRS-1, Eminem, and a litany of other rappers are better at the craft than he is, but in the end, because money supposedly talks, naysayers will refuse to consider the voices of other rappers in a conversation about the "best." Thus, here, we can see how his riches have made him, dubiously, the best.

Now, you can't have a legitimate conversation about the "best" in the rap game until you involve Big and Pac in the discussion. And I think you'd be hard pressed to find any contemporary rapper who hasn't been influenced by those two in some shape or form. I think this alone speaks to the supremacy of those two. We cannot say this about Jay, however. The only thing Jay has over those two is the fact that he's still alive. Their untimely demise, with particular emphasis on Big's death, literally paved the way for Jay. Had they been alive, would Jay be doing it as he is now? We'll never know, and frankly it's pointless musing over fantasies. But, I bring it up merely to show that Jay isn't "undisputed," word to that "PERIOD" nonsense.

If y'all are going o regard him as the best, then do it properly by qualifying "best" with an asterisk.





...
but yall dont. its this is better than Jay. no one else is used in the comparison.
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post #89 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRockford View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Rawstein View Post

Dudes is wyling w outlandish statements lol

Man Hov is the GOAT...get over it. Poll the rappers, poll the fans(racially balanced), poll the media...

dude said the ppl crowned NaS the greatest?!?! Since when?? aint nobody touching the fanbase Hov created over the years. And you cant count Em cuz of you know why.

Dumb.. Why can't you count Em? Because he has sold more records than Hov with less time and albums?
Consider this, Hov is another self proclaimed King.
Hov does a majority of his numbers in the US. Em has a world wide fan base.

If your going to debate, at least do it like a man and come with something. How old are you, like 12 or somethin?

I guess you want me to state the obvious and point out Eminem's race being a large contributor to his success(as he has also stated). If all things are equal than sure Em is comparable but because they are not i believe that the role race plays in his success is to sufficient to validate him being the GOAT or out ranking Jay-Z in regards to the greatest ever.

Em is clearly the more lyrical of the two but thats where it stops in my book.
post #90 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by illphillip View Post

Rakim set the standard.

laugh.gif at OP starting a JayZ circle jerk thread for no reason.....

Man I was just thinking this!
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