Let's face it, Jay-Z is the bar in which we compare rappers to because he is the best. PERIOD - Page 3

Chicago

You're insane. Jay-Z doesn't even believe that and he'd smack you if you said that.

Just cuz a ***** self titles himself the greatest, doesn't mean that he is.

Lies on top of lies on top of lies. I don't even like arguing hypothetical questions but this one is doable because Jay has songs with some of the people listed. Look at Renegade, Em an Jay verse were equal. People say Em killed Jay but they both went hard, and they balanced each other out. An that beat was made by Em he should have obliterated Hov but he didn't. So that's how that go. Look at Brooklyn's Finest...once again Jay was not outshines or outclassed. They both went hard. If anything, you could make the point Jay went harder, he had more quotables on the song, Look at Success and Black Republicans...Jay killed Nas on both...nothin more to be said. People acting like Jay is just some slouch. He got bars an bars for days. Has he gotten comfortable...yes. But he will stick rap circles around anyone...save for Em. They'reequal in my eyes..rap wise. But Jay got it overall career wise,

It's pretty funny people debate the Renegade song when Em's verse was laid down with Royce Da 5'9" probably weeks to months in advance, and Jay-Z still couldn't write or "freestyle" a verse better than Em's.

 

Stop reading after dude said Em and Jay's verses were equal. Seriously,  "Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?"

Those ppl ignore the hell out of that

Jay killed Nas on black republicans and success? Em and Jay were equal on renagades? straight nonsense.

Jay killed Nas on black republicans and success? Em and Jay were equal on renagades? straight nonsense.

No. Not duets, because we are separating them as individuals. making their own songs.

Not battles because I will not buy a song/CD of a battle. They are artists, and to be considered "great" you should be able to make a good/decent song from any beat right?

How can it be lies when musical preference is based on opinion? And please don't feed me that numbers BS..

Having the better verse in a song that both were featured on doesnt hold that much weight to me honestly cause its not a guarantee whether either of the rappers were trying spit their best verse

 

 

He didnt? The two songs where clear slaughters, Nas wasnt saying a damn thing. Google Earth, Converse, and whatever nonsense inbetween. It wasnt even close especially on Black Republican. They were equal on renegades, just becuase one guy was more notorious at the time and had a more controversial topic to speak about doesnt mean his verse was better.

I think the OP is a fair statement. 

This question is too subjective.

 

Is he the best lyricist? best artist? what?

 

It all depends what people consider lyrical.  Id rather hear triple entendres than "Rappers, I monkey flip em with the funky rythm"

 

Jay probably has the best balance out of rappers, hence is GOAT title.  I know regular ****** in the hood with flow like any said rapper mentioned in this thread, but nobody puts it all together like Jay.  I used to be a Lupe and Nas stan off their flows and subject matter, and a few punchlines here and there.  The more I listened that **** got old quick...

It's obvious people are just fueled by hate in here.

I'm not gonna talk numbers because content speaks for itself. I encourage everyone to listen to the songs mentioned an come back with their opinions.
Edited by Rico x Hood - 2/3/13 at 2:29pm

Slaughter? LOL. Only in your warped world did Jay slaughter Nas on any of those tracks. All jay talked about on black republicans was his divorce from Dame. Nas ripped that track. The only track I can say they were equal on is success. Neither of them said **** on that track. I'm not even gonna bother to talk about renegade because Jay's ballsack is hindering your view.

Dudes is wyling w outlandish statements lol

Man Hov is the GOAT...get over it. Poll the rappers, poll the fans(racially balanced), poll the media...

dude said the ppl crowned NaS the greatest?!?! Since when?? aint nobody touching the fanbase Hov created over the years. And you cant count Em cuz of you know why.

Dumb.. Why can't you count Em? Because he has sold more records than Hov with less time and albums?
Consider this, Hov is another self proclaimed King.
Hov does a majority of his numbers in the US. Em has a world wide fan base.

If your going to debate, at least do it like a man and come with something. How old are you, like 12 or somethin?

How does one not understand what Nas is talking about on Success?

They were still stuck on how "real" Jay's verse was

The same Buddha Bless since I first posted in the music forum. Have you gone senile? or do you need to wipe that ol man jiggga spunk off your eyes?

First of all im a big fan of both Jay z and eminem but I just cant see how anybody on earth can say Jays part in Renegade was better, or even equal to Ems. This comes up alot and im shocked everytime people try to debate it.

The best? At what? I'm serious.

The two things Jay has to his credit:

1. He's rich

2. He's still alive (making him an elder statesman of sorts in the rap game. This latter point has also largely influenced the former point).

These are honestly the only reasons why he, debatably, the best.

We can make arguments about how Nas, KRS-1, Eminem, and a litany of other rappers are better at the craft than he is, but in the end, because money supposedly talks, naysayers will refuse to consider the voices of other rappers in a conversation about the "best." Thus, here, we can see how his riches have made him, dubiously, the best.

Now, you can't have a legitimate conversation about the "best" in the rap game until you involve Big and Pac in the discussion. And I think you'd be hard pressed to find any contemporary rapper who hasn't been influenced by those two in some shape or form. I think this alone speaks to the supremacy of those two. We cannot say this about Jay, however. The only thing Jay has over those two is the fact that he's still alive. Their untimely demise, with particular emphasis on Big's death, literally paved the way for Jay. Had they been alive, would Jay be doing it as he is now? We'll never know, and frankly it's pointless musing over fantasies. But, I bring it up merely to show that Jay isn't "undisputed," word to that "PERIOD" nonsense.

If y'all are going o regard him as the best, then do it properly by qualifying "best" with an asterisk.





...

minus big and pac.....is Jay the best alive? I'd say yes

I hate this topic. Hov slurpers gon slurp. Nas is the GOAT IN MY OPINION. There's nothing anybody can say to change my mind, no matter how hard Antidope may try. Illmatic > IWW >Stillmatic > Reasonable Doubt. It's not even close.

da bottomline is jay-z isn't da best at anything, sure he got classics but people got better albums than him, and he was never

 

da volume seller that other artists are either.

Not trying to change anyones mind, that would be pointless. All I came in here to do was agree with the OP then the thread went in the direction that it was inevitably going to go in so I contributed. JAY-Z > NaS and its not even close IMO.
Edited by Antidope - 2/4/13 at 3:36am

I guess you want me to state the obvious and point out Eminem's race being a large contributor to his success(as he has also stated). If all things are equal than sure Em is comparable but because they are not i believe that the role race plays in his success is to sufficient to validate him being the GOAT or out ranking Jay-Z in regards to the greatest ever.

Em is clearly the more lyrical of the two but thats where it stops in my book.

Man I was just thinking this!