Why Are There So Many Murders in Chicago?

DCAllAmerican said:
jordan23dotcom said:
LOL at money and rich people being the solution. The problem is that there is no solution. a lot of those people don't want change or even work towards it.
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I don't think they DON'T want change, I don't think they even understand that there CAN be a change.

They know their world and how their world operates. Many don't even understand that there is another neighborhood outside of their own.

So I can't agree that they don't want to change.
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Exactly DC remember that Kenny Smith said "they need an opportunity to know they have opportunities". 
 

Here's an analogy.  You go to prison.  Are you gonna adapt and do what you gotta do to survive or risk your life being a "good person".  In certain environments you gotta adjust to the rules of the game to survive.  The problem is when you get out of prison.  Do you know how to adjust back to being a "good person" and living in the real world.

These people and kids don't live in the "real world".  Its too real for them so they are in survival mode not strive mode.  Another quote from Kenny Smith....By the time they are over 18 they only know one way and thats to survive. 

Its not that people want to kill, live in the hood, be uneducated, be on drugs....they just don't know there's more because from day 1 on this Earth they are told they are worthless and have no hope.

Listen to some of the lyrics these kids rap...they say stuff like "aint no tomorrow"...dudes 14 getting tats on their face because they can't even imagine themselves being 30. 
 
kaygee6 said:
JChambers: I can't sit here and debate with you about crime, the fact of the matter is people do not respect the police due to what my predecessors before me have done. If you come out to DC I will show you the light my friend. I aspire to become a commissioner/director one day and I will be damned if I lose control of the city. 
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Its all good bro. I understand that you deal with a lot of scumbag criminals in your position and you see it from a different perspective than someone who isn't involved in law enforcement. It is hard to do something that you care about and not be appreciated. I just hope that you are in it for the right reasons and don't become cynical over time. Remember that the people you are dealing with are still human beings and should be treated as such.We need good law enforcement officers in this country who care about the people, community and the Constitution/Bill of Rights. Nothing is ever black/white, but always layered in shades of grey. I think that if the laws truly were just, and focused on keeping murderers,rapists, thieves in jail, people would have more respect for the police. Everyone in the hood has an uncle who is doing 20 years for committing a drug crime that had no direct victims. A lot of people in the hood have been violated and robbed by the police. This influences their views and actions towards police. A lot of rogue officers are out here violating peoples' rights and lying under oath. You say that you are one of the good ones and I wish you the best and hope that you can have a positive influence over the others around you. Peace and be safe out there.


As far as me being like Mitt Romney, nothing could be further from the truth. I didn't vote for Bush, Obama or Romney and don't support or agree with any of their positions. I believe that the government should exist to keep roads paved, infrastructures secure, and protect against foreign invaders. It should be a government for the people, by the people as intended. I don't believe that throwing money at something is the solution. For every dollar the government throws towards a problem such as this, thousands go into someone's pocket. I will state that I don't believe in government sponsored welfare in any form. However, I understand that you can't just stop it in its tracks, because that could be fatal to many people. We need reform though.
 
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PowerBallin said:
DCAllAmerican said:
jordan23dotcom said:
LOL at money and rich people being the solution. The problem is that there is no solution. a lot of those people don't want change or even work towards it.
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I don't think they DON'T want change, I don't think they even understand that there CAN be a change.


They know their world and how their world operates. Many don't even understand that there is another neighborhood outside of their own.


So I can't agree that they don't want to change.
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Exactly DC remember that Kenny Smith said "they need an opportunity to know they have opportunities". 

 
Here's an analogy.  You go to prison.  Are you gonna adapt and do what you gotta do to survive or risk your life being a "good person".  In certain environments you gotta adjust to the rules of the game to survive.  The problem is when you get out of prison.  Do you know how to adjust back to being a "good person" and living in the real world.

These people and kids don't live in the "real world".  Its too real for them so they are in survival mode not strive mode.  Another quote from Kenny Smith....By the time they are over 18 they only know one way and thats to survive. 

Its not that people want to kill, live in the hood, be uneducated, be on drugs....they just don't know there's more because from day 1 on this Earth they are told they are worthless and have no hope.

Listen to some of the lyrics these kids rap...they say stuff like "aint no tomorrow"...dudes 14 getting tats on their face because they can't even imagine themselves being 30. 
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While I agree with you on some points, there are many ways to make it out of the hood. Many people do glorify ghetto living and violence/drug culture. They also call someone who gets a real job or degree a "sell out" or it's "You think you better than us", or "He ain't sh..." As I said before, the people need new role models. They need to learn the value of sacrifice and proper planning for the future. How many people do you see on a daily who have $5000 rims on their $3000 car, but don't own a house, or have a degree, or even have any preparations to pay for their next rent check? I partially blame the school systems for not teaching anything pragmatic, but we are born alone and die alone in this life and nobody owes us anything. Plenty of people work their way out of the hood. It is possible. We need to stop glorifying these rappers and crooked politicians and sports stars who don't give anything back to their communities. Everyone needs to stand up and accept responsibilities for their own actions. Black people, ya'll need another MLK or Malcolm X, but this time the focus needs to be on reforming from within, rather than reforming the system around you (don't get me wrong, the system still needs reforming tho). I got love for all ya'll though and pray for the best because I know its hard to grow up in an environment where you honestly believe that nothing positive is possible. Peace.


Oh yeah, here are the two biggest artists out of Chicago right now, the role models that these young cats look up to. Listen to the lyrics and then decide why things are going in the wrong direction:





 
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mean.gif
its bigger than rap music my man
 
PowerBallin said:
:smh: its bigger than rap music my man
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It is way bigger, but you can't deny that it has a major influence. That's the problem, there are many issues that need to be addressed and the only solutions I hear are "throw money at it" or "hire more cops, pass harsher laws". We gotta face the truth. Things aren't changing in Gangster City any time soon. It's still 74 til the world blow tho.. :wink:
 
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Mo Matik said:
I really liked this piece because it's concise and it doesn't simply focus on any one factor. I can see it starting a great discussion here. The post links to a lot of other articles so check out the main page as well if you're interested.
Why Are There So Many Murders in Chicago? | Aaron M. Renn | 02/02/2013
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This article is garbage. I ain't never seen as many police forces as I have seen in Chicago. You damn near see more police cars than you do taxis. The politics is really bad in Chicago and the police force is used for a lot of hidden tax breaks. I don't trust this article. I find it really hard to believe we have a shortage on police forces. We have a shortage on police who are not corrupted, maybe that is what they meant to say.

Also the music you hear from Chicago is only the mainstream stuff they want you to hear. Believe it or not, there is probably two or three times as much conscious rap than there is gangster rap in Chicago.

Chicago violence started with the mafia in the 20's. That was way before any music was imitating it.

You have corrupted politics made up of corrupted labor unions and mafia. You have some of the most dangerous ghettos in the world. And then you take away peoples rights to defend themselves and it separates the wolves from the sheep to a drastic level. Take all of this and pack it into a crowded space (chi is a very small area compared to most metropolitan areas) and Chicago is what you get.
 
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JChambers said:
PowerBallin said:
JChambers said:
PowerBallin said:
mean.gif
its bigger than rap music my man
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It is way bigger, but you can't deny that it has a major influence.
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in some areas art imitates life not vice versa
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This is true, but that music is a reflection of the mindset that allows these types of things to occur also.
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man you are saying chicken and I'm saying egg.  This issue isn't the music is my point.  Its so much bigger than that its not point even talking about rap music.  The same music gets made and played by people with more education, money, common sense, and opportunities.  The music is a scapegoat. 
 
I would say Chicago rap music doesn't even imitate the violence and ghettoness completely. It really is just an imitation. Dudes are broad day light gangster in Chicago. The music is a mainstream thing, no different from other cities.
 
dudes have been banging in Chicago since early 20th centry to Capone, to now, why is rap music even being discussed?
 
red mpls said:
Excellent post. One of the issues that has changed the dynamics within the Black community since the Civil Rights Movement is that the Black middle and upper classes have been able to take advantage of the gains won in the movement and some of the concessions forced by the subsequent Black Power movement while the impoverished Black masses have been locked out from these same opportunities and resources. Thus, the Black community is less monolithic now (in the sense that the issues and priorities facing different strata of the community are different) than it ever has been...
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I view it as a situation where concessions were given in order to appease or oblige an increasingly hostile crowd. It wasn't at all an attempt to rectify any problems or shortcomings, or to create equality. Whites continued to climb the ladder of success while blacks were now allowed to climb up out of the hole they were put in. I say that to say this, of course the masses were shut out, left behind. People forget the playing field was never leveled while they're worried about welfare states and affirmative action.

The black community is less monolithic because american society is individualistic. The successful don't become successful through civic mindedness. It's just a flood of selfishness and materialism in this country. Our culture and institutions just churn out competitors in the name of progress and national world dominance. In a very simplistic sense, our neglect for the people in our community and just people in general is a byproduct of capitalism running efficiently. This goes back to your comments about needing a systematic change. But i don't know man, seems like we need more than change, more like a reset button. Even then, you still have a certain mindset or instinct ingrained in those already living on this planet that is adverse to the change we are talking about.

It's so far gone at this point it's not even about poverty or lack of opportunity or having a dead end life. It's cultural. While these kids may not be rich or even well of by any means a significant amount of violence is being caused by kids who have a home to go to. Kids that are not even in the realm of starving. In the most impoverished of areas, the absolute worst of the worst, a kid may be forced to join a gang or face becoming a victim on a daily basis if he is not affiliated. A victim of others in the same environment that may literally be starving or at least severely lacking in basic necessities. Perhaps you can have a few crumbs if half the people in our neighborhood got your back and the other half know it's not just you they're messing with. Let's not forget that's how this type of violence all began and how poverty relates to it in a historical sense. You still have those desperate situations these days, the extremely poor. But you also have celebrities with millions of dollars talking that gang nonsense. And every little wanna be cultural competitor inbetween getting caught in the middle of the glamorous and the real "bout that life" ****. It's the whole life imitating art or art imitating life cycle, and regardless of what came first it's done nothing but enhance the scope of it all, with real life, often fatal consequences.

JChambers said:
Someone in here previously stated that after slavery, African Americans got together and started their own economies and were very successful. What happened after that is the welfare state and the belief that nobody is responsible for their own actions and that it is the government's responsibility to take care of everybody.
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No bro, thats not what happened. You're really gonna come in here and make things up off the top of your head about a subject you know nothing about just to try to justify your narrow world view? What you are doing now is just regurgitating what you have heard others say, which resonated with you because our entire way of life depends on us all having full confidence that the land of opportunity and equality fulfills individual goals in accordance with an individuals hard work. When really it's just propaganda to make sure everyone works hard, and in turn make sure capitalism works. Individualistic, boot-strap mentality is a key motivation for our economic system. It's unamerican to think otherwise, it's borderline communist, america is the greatest country on earth because of the way our system of democracy/capitaism operates. Such strong conceptual propaganda is why there is such a gap between rich and poor and why you will probably dismiss what I am trying to say in this post.
 
From my experience most hood people don't want to change even if the opportunities are there. I've seen this in middle school (one of the top middle schools in the Bay Area), high school (top private Catholic school where a bunch of hood/dumb @#$ kids got in just cause they were Catholic), and college (dudes went to high schools where just showing up got you an A). Their priorities are completely @#$@$@ up.

My parents didn't always have money, and I went through years of ridicule cause of my Payless shoes and Ross clearance shirts; meanwhile the same kids who spent all their money on Jordans/Nikes/fresh gear would show up at 6 AM to line up for free breakfast. In high school dudes were bringing knives, brass knuckles, etc. to a campus where 95% of the population was made up of people from the richest and least violent parts of the Bay Area. In college my cholo neighbor never went to class, dude was too busy selling drugs...Dude bought a 70'' flatscreen, a new Camaro SS, and countless other @#$% before the cops caught on and he got arrested then kicked out. I could list 100s of other examples but this essay is already getting too long.

I@#$% is hopeless.

And there are definitely people who grow up in the same environment as these clowns and succeed, they're usually the ones who get called white washed, herbs, etc and are excluded by their peers. Yes I was one of them :lol: :smh:
 
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sreggie101 said:
deereebs said:
Why doesn't the NAACP come in and do something worthwhile aside from being a scapegoat?  Like it's been said by a couple posters above me, people on the streets have no respect for authority- so why does it matter if there's 1 or 10 cop cars on the block?  It's gonna be a never ending cycle for our population if the root cause isn't addressed!  We need supervision in the family.  Don't blame the schools, the cops, the system.  Our president is black- that shows that anything is possible today.  The world is yours, and unfortunately people are never gonna get out of the hood, the violence, the drugs if the problem isn't fixed at home.  Is it the cops job to make sure our kids get the homework done?  Is the teacher responsible for what his or her students do 6 hours after the final bell rings?  

I hate to say it, but I really think the Bill Cosby mentality is the only way to fix problems like this.  We need to stop pointing fingers and be held accountable for our actions!
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my man


repped and cosigned. i have been preaching this from the start. if it starts with the kids than the solution starts at home. PERIOD. anything else would be a big help but wouldn't solve the problem fully, you need to start at the source. the same way children aren't born racist, the same way they aren't born violent and rachet. this non snitching, violent, gang life is taught, plain and simple. if you have a kid, you be responsible for that kid. (with that said, if you can't be responsible for a kid, use a ******g condom :smh:) make sure that kid knows that the keef way isn't poppin and that it will only land you in jail or in the earth.

Lets be clear, im talking about black folks. Yes, black. Im lying or sugarcoating if i put it any other way. most of the killing is within the black community. and at damn near 50 in 4 weeks into 2013, thats a lotta ******g blacks killing/being killed. the no snitching clause in this mess is just the cherry on top. Now if i sound racist than so be it. I'm black and it pains me to say all this, but wtf am i supposed to say? Give reasons as to why its not black folks fault? Hardships aside, most of these killings aren't survival (food, shelter, etc) related. Its on some ********. And there is no gov't body, law, or social institution to blame more than the people themselves.

If kids are brought up right, then they in turn will instill in their kids the same level of responsibility and desire to make something of themselves in life.and succeed. But if they are brought up with lack of responsible parenting, then it will continue to be a rinse and repeat process and **** will never change.


for reference http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/02/us/chicago-killings.html
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the thing is it is bigger than that, too many make the assumption that people aren't being accountable but what about the accountability society has to its people? the world we currently live in makes it harder to get by for a whole lot of people, one of the biggest things coming up for a lot of black & latino youth is how early we are introduced/get accustomed to criminalization, and up not getting second chances & opportunities to make good on them if they are given. society seems to have decided this is ok, there definitely something that need to addressed in the culture of impoverished hoods, but to say that it boils down to accountability is naive; how is it my fault that i don't make enough bread to comfortable take care of my family? that i may have to work multiple jobs/long hours that keeps me out touch with what may or may not be going on in my household? education/justice system/globalization/technology/war on drugs has disproportionally affected urban blacks & latinos, all these things are factors; definitely not impossible to overcome but the deck is HEAVILY stacked against you if you are an urban minority and the exceptions make it seem to be easier/more possible than it maybe is. as more people's skills be made obsolete/less valuable by the pace of change maybe people will come around to discussing how we need to proceed together & actually engage in some thoughtfulness on how we balance capitalism/competition with actually caring about what happens to actual people...


red mpls said:
As someone who lives in a high-violence community in Chicago and works with the youth that are in the streets, these are my views. First and foremost, the "root issue" is that society doesn't value the lives of the young people in these communities and they know it.

When they wake up in the morning and walk outside, their neighborhood literally looks like it's a war zone. Crumbling, boarded up buildings and unkempt vacant lots with three-foot high grass and discarded garbage make up more than half of their block.

When they get to school, they walk through metal detectors and have armed city police officers patrolling in their buildings daily. A lot of schools don't have basic amenities like enough books, copy paper, toilet tissue, etc. The walls haven't been painted in God knows how long. In some of these schools, one in three teachers are not in school on any given day.

When classes are over for the day, they have few if any after-school programs available at the school. Sports are available on an extremely limited basis as few sports are offered and few slots are available on each team. Some school literally have four sports teams - football, boys basketball, girls basketball, and cheerleading. There are no community centers available for them to spend the hours after school safely and in a constructive environment. The police line up outside the school, often on horses and sometimes with police canines, when the final bell rings and clear the school grounds as if every student were involved in a plot to start a riot.

They go home and there's barely enough food in the house and little in the way of nutritious food because it costs too much, there isn't a grocery store for miles, and their mom doesn't have a car. Their apartment is dilapidated due to overuse and landlord neglect throughout the decades. They may have roaches and mice or an occasional rat because the city fails to properly maintain the vacant lots on either side of their building.

Their mother works but barely has enough to make ends meet. No jobs exist in their community so the mother has to take two buses and a train to get to and from work everyday. In fact, few of the adults in the community are regularly employed. And of those that are, all are barely making it. They know that there really is no place for them in the national (or global for that matter) economy. Even service sector jobs are being automated and putting even the most menial workers out of jobs.

Their interactions with mainstream institutions is essentially limited to school and law enforcement. Their experiences with both of these institutions are stressful and dehumanizing.

People are killed and incarcerated with regularity in their community and among their friends and family. These outcomes are much more normal than getting a college degree and a great career. In fact, they don't really know anyone personally who has graduated from college and is doing great.

At the same time, they know that their experience is not normal. It's not how every young person has to live. It's not how most young people live. But because they're Black and poor or Latino and poor it's how they have to live.

Thus, aside from maybe their parents (which can be powerful, don't get me wrong) and maybe a teacher they like, their entire existence screams at them that they do not matter. That they are considered expendable to society at best and parasitic at worst.

WHY WOULD THEY FEEL ANY DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THEMSELVES THAN WHAT THEIR EXPERIENCES IN SOCIETY HAVE TRAINED THEM TO THINK? Why would they properly value the lives of those around them when they don't value their own life because they feel they have nothing to live for other than some semblance of respect on their block and being treated as a martyr for the hood when they're dead?

It's truly amazing that these issues aren't much bigger...
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very insightful & very well put. add to that, gang culture and the pull it has over youth that don't see a place for themselves in the new society (this isn't a conscious thing for most, as we are a product of our environment and the opportunities & possibilities within it) and you have a recipe for bad things. having come up in chicago & the greater chicagoland area, you see people get caught up in 'that life' sometimes just because it is who & what they know, its what around. i've been gone for a minute, but i would not thought the CPD had too few officers...i do think because of chicago's history w/gangs and how they police them, probably does lead to fragmentation & decentralized leadership of what already can be pretty volatile/wreckless independent actors...

i heard something recently in a discussion about culture/race that was pretty interesting, it would seem that many of the blacks & latinos from less privileged backgrounds (it was unclear if the same was true of those from more privileged backgrounds) go into fields that aren't as high paying/'valuable' like education, social studies, etc. while asians generally tend to pursue things in the STEM fields which pay more and are seen as more valuable. it just got thinking why that would be true...

TeamJordan79 said:
dudes have been banging in Chicago since early 20th centry to Capone, to now, why is rap music even being discussed?
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word.

PowerBallin said:
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Either they don't know, don't show, or don't care about what's goin' on in the hood
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exactly...
 
MPLSdunk said:
thank you. i always laugh. yup, keef is to blame. :lol:
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As others have said, it's not a matter of blaming anyone. It's a matter of acknowledging Chief Keef and other rappers like him are an embodiment of that violent culture of lifestyle. It's a mainstream portrayal of that culture and as such serves to legitimize it on a minor level. How? Mainly for the younger kids, who see these rappers as successful because they're rich powerful celebrities that can do whatever they want. And with black children being raised by single parents in about 70% of black households, many are looking for guidance and role models.

Listen to Lupe here. He chooses his words carefully.




EDIT: Just want to thank NT for making this a really successful thread so far. Very respectful debate/discussion on a heated topic. Lets keep it rolling.
 
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Man I love the CHI....been there twice but only stayed north of southside. I bet there are some gems to be seen in southside but grim ain't no dummy, I heard how southside gets.
 
red mpls said:
JChambers said:
kaygee6 said:
JCChambers- I am a police officer in DC and in Chicago what needs to happen is that laws need to be tighter. There laws are reflective of their liberal mayor.
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I will preface by saying that I am no fan of the mayor of Chicago. I don't directly blame society for these murders either, because we all have to be held responsible for our own actions. There is no quick solution, but the solution must come from within the black community and family structure, and not from an external attack.

In Chicago on a daily basis police officers frisk pedestrians with zero probable cause and no warrants, violating the Constitution freely. The old model of police officers being vanguards of the community and helpful protectors is no longer a reality. Police are becoming more militarized by the day and they are taught to react violently and lie under oath in court. Let's not even get started on rampant steroid use among law enforcement. Interactions with police are often violent and demeaning to the citizens. Every day we get a new report of police brutality or violations. How many more are not reported? How many actions of so called "bad cops" are covered up by so called "good cops"? Many children in inner city Chicago are treated like criminals in their own schools.What laws would you recommend that they "tighten"? Is murder not already punishable by life in prison? Guns are completely illegal. How would new laws solve this problem, without violating the Constitutional rights of both law abiding citizens and criminals? You say that you are a police officer, so I am sure that your view is; "Let us do whatever we want and we'll clean up the streets." That view may be viable in Iraq or Soviet Russia, but here in the United States of America, we still have a slight semblance of freedom that we are trying to hold onto without becoming a full blown police state. However, I am sure that you believe that laws need to be tighter because, as Upton Sinclair stated:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
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Strong post.

Please tell us what laws in Chicago need to be "tighter" kaygee6...
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that last line :x :wow: :pimp: tighter gun laws in chicago are one thing. the united states doesn't go aggressively against the sale of illegal guns as it does on the sale of illegal drugs. the ATF hasn't had a director in YEARS. MANY YEARS. it hasn't grown in the number of agents since it was started. essentially they have very little teeth and you can give some credit to the NRA for lobbying some legislation that restricts the potential of what this organization can do, much less what it was ******g intended for.



FrankMatthews said:
I always hear people talking about it starts with the parents and that the solution to all these problems has to do with the quality of parenting these kids receive. The cliche is, "it starts at home". The thing I always wondered is how do you expect some of these parents, who never had good parenting themselves, who are stressed to the max with just providing basic needs and who really have no opportunity to better their situation to just wake up one day and start being exceptional parents? Are these parenting skills supposed to come to them in a dream? For many, good parenting skills seems like common sense, but of course those people probably had good parents, good examples to learn from. The parents are kids themselves, no matter how grown they are.

Remember that ATL security guard that tasered the mother in front of her kids? People were making comments about how they feel sorry for the kids and that the kids don't stand a chance in this world. This same kid, 10 years down the road will be in some vid stomping someone out over Jordans or getting killed in a questionable interaction with police and those same people will view that kid with disdain, as an animal that deserved what he got coming to him. That kid is now one of those people that NTers thinks deserves to be killed, tortured or locked up for life, that the world would be so much better off without.

At what point are these kids expected to start acting like the contributing adults that everyone thinks they should be? He turns 16 or 18 and all of the sudden he's supposed to have all these life skills, integrity and morality? At 13 or 14 he's a child welfare case, just a poor kid from a bad family that never had a chance. At 18 you want to lock him up and throw away the key or worse torture him to death for making poor decisions. How is it logical to expect a kid, now 20-25 years old with their own children to step up and be that perfect parent that will solve all these social issues in the community.

I think it is easy for a lot of people on the outside looking in to forget when, why and how this cycle began. You may not have the wholesale dehumanization of black folks or the targeted propagation of debilitating drugs this country once had but it is not difficult to go back over the generations and see the cause and effect of todays issues. It wasn't always like this. Less than 30 years after the slaves were freed, as blacks were cut off from the white economy, they had built their own economy to the tune of a couple billion dollars (that would be a couple billion in 1900's money, unadjusted for inflation). The crux of this growth was benevolent societies. Blacks looking out for other blacks. Building schools, educating their children all the way up through college entirely independent of the white public school system and political funding.
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in reading all this, i didn't see a solution. just criticism. so i ask you, how do you see this problem ending? (not trying to be a ****, just want to know what you think the answer is to all this, sincerely)

i underlined ur first point because its a strong argument. to be clear the solution does start at home. if the parents were able to dedicated a normal amount of hours to their kids, and if they have the right mindset, then the repeated stagnant problem we see today would start to dissipate. i also agree that in turn, parents who can't afford the time to raise their children because they are working so much will ultimately have kids who grow up via outside influences...aka the streets. and there are def social/economical/historical reasons as to the current status of the black/latino community. but if this isn't the parents fault than where do you fix the problem?

in any demographic, background, religion, whatever...IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD CHILDREN, DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN.. its as simple as that. If you are working at a long hour job but aren't making a decent salary than you cannot afford the time and money to dedicate to raising a kid. going against this rule results in what we see today.
 
Gun control laws discriminate against minorities living in lower income neighborhoods, where the majority of violence is centered. There are laws against them protecting themselves.
 
sreggie101 said:
in any demographic, background, religion, whatever...IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD CHILDREN, DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN.. its as simple as that. If you are working at a long hour job but aren't making a decent salary than you cannot afford the time and money to dedicate to raising a kid. going against this rule results in what we see today.
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Simply asking people to make this logical and rational choice doesn't result in it becoming the norm. 70% of black children are raised in a home without a father. People aren't simply going to stop having relations. What we have seen in NYC as a result of increased availability of birth control may be what we need to see more of in Chicago schools.


Teen Pregnancy down 27% in New York City over the last decade | Health Commissioner Tom Farley credits the new results to contraceptives and teens delaying sexual activity.

NYC schools giving out tens of thousands of doses of the 'morning-after pill' | NYPost
 
rashi said:
Gun control laws discriminate against minorities living in lower income neighborhoods, where the majority of violence is centered. There are laws against them protecting themselves.
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Damn near everything government does has the opposite of the intended effect and hurts the people they were originally trying to help.
 
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FrankMatthews said:
red mpls said:
Excellent post. One of the issues that has changed the dynamics within the Black community since the Civil Rights Movement is that the Black middle and upper classes have been able to take advantage of the gains won in the movement and some of the concessions forced by the subsequent Black Power movement while the impoverished Black masses have been locked out from these same opportunities and resources. Thus, the Black community is less monolithic now (in the sense that the issues and priorities facing different strata of the community are different) than it ever has been...
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I view it as a situation where concessions were given in order to appease or oblige an increasingly hostile crowd. It wasn't at all an attempt to rectify any problems or shortcomings, or to create equality. Whites continued to climb the ladder of success while blacks were now allowed to climb up out of the hole they were put in. I say that to say this, of course the masses were shut out, left behind. People forget the playing field was never leveled while they're worried about welfare states and affirmative action.

The black community is less monolithic because american society is individualistic. The successful don't become successful through civic mindedness. It's just a flood of selfishness and materialism in this country. Our culture and institutions just churn out competitors in the name of progress and national world dominance. In a very simplistic sense, our neglect for the people in our community and just people in general is a byproduct of capitalism running efficiently. This goes back to your comments about needing a systematic change. But i don't know man, seems like we need more than change, more like a reset button. Even then, you still have a certain mindset or instinct ingrained in those already living on this planet that is adverse to the change we are talking about.

It's so far gone at this point it's not even about poverty or lack of opportunity or having a dead end life. It's cultural. While these kids may not be rich or even well of by any means a significant amount of violence is being caused by kids who have a home to go to. Kids that are not even in the realm of starving. In the most impoverished of areas, the absolute worst of the worst, a kid may be forced to join a gang or face becoming a victim on a daily basis if he is not affiliated. A victim of others in the same environment that may literally be starving or at least severely lacking in basic necessities. Perhaps you can have a few crumbs if half the people in our neighborhood got your back and the other half know it's not just you they're messing with. Let's not forget that's how this type of violence all began and how poverty relates to it in a historical sense. You still have those desperate situations these days, the extremely poor. But you also have celebrities with millions of dollars talking that gang nonsense. And every little wanna be cultural competitor inbetween getting caught in the middle of the glamorous and the real "bout that life" ****. It's the whole life imitating art or art imitating life cycle, and regardless of what came first it's done nothing but enhance the scope of it all, with real life, often fatal consequences.

JChambers said:
Someone in here previously stated that after slavery, African Americans got together and started their own economies and were very successful. What happened after that is the welfare state and the belief that nobody is responsible for their own actions and that it is the government's responsibility to take care of everybody.
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No bro, thats not what happened. You're really gonna come in here and make things up off the top of your head about a subject you know nothing about just to try to justify your narrow world view? What you are doing now is just regurgitating what you have heard others say, which resonated with you because our entire way of life depends on us all having full confidence that the land of opportunity and equality fulfills individual goals in accordance with an individuals hard work. When really it's just propaganda to make sure everyone works hard, and in turn make sure capitalism works. Individualistic, boot-strap mentality is a key motivation for our economic system. It's unamerican to think otherwise, it's borderline communist, america is the greatest country on earth because of the way our system of democracy/capitaism operates. Such strong conceptual propaganda is why there is such a gap between rich and poor and why you will probably dismiss what I am trying to say in this post.
Click to expand...



So what's your solution? You want a great God to come out of the sky and take all of the money and resources and spread them equally so that life is completely fair?
 
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