The Old PlayStation Thread | *NEW THREAD IS UP*

[ssjjfar]

Sony shares jumped 9% today to highest its been since August 2011.

This couldn''t be soley based on Xbox announcement? Can it?


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/21/sony-brief-idUSWEN0092V20130521

 

[iheartboost]

Live still looks like ****

 

[swendro]

It's going to be a long 19 days.

 

[thehealthinspector]

i knew there was going to be butthurt across the internet today, i just didnt figure it would be this much

i figured it would just be over the power difference but its bigger than that

 

[Sinner]

Good info, guys.

So aside from Hybrid and NCTwin, who else in here work in the industry?

 

[jking0821]

Came in here expecting some chest pounding about ps4> xbox one.....disappoint

But seriously the EA Engine trailer???? Looks like a typical cut scene from any madden....fifa and nba look like crap. Oh well

 

[D Double]

Came in here expecting some chest pounding about ps4> xbox one.....disappoint

But seriously the EA Engine trailer???? Looks like a typical cut scene from any madden....fifa and nba look like crap. Oh well

Honestly, I read all the rumours and leaks before the events and was shocked that it was even worse than that. I thought they would bring it hard but they commited seppuku instead. Then there was the PR disasters all over the place after the reveal.
Reading the reactions of some X-box fans, I even felt bad for a minute

It's all about the games they show at E3. If they don't bring it at E3 then that is that.

 

[PRIME]

^^ It shouldn't happen because of both platforms moving to x86. The playing field is pretty much level when it comes to the software development aspect. Obviously, optimizations have to made but (hopefully) gone are the days of having to go and outsource everything to get it running and optimized for the PS3.

I heard that as well. I hope that you're right...

You going to E3 this year??

I'll be there for meetings and showing stuff off all 3 days. Hopefully I should get some time to wander around. I'm still confused why they made it Tues-Thurs. Like I'm really going to come into work on Friday?

Just a ploy to make me burn a vacation day Thanks ESA

Hey, at least you get to spend those days having a good time.

Better than my job. I'd have to take vacation DAYS just to go |I

 

[hybridsoldier23]

Digital foundry, xbox one is officially 33% weaker than PS4


Spec Analysis: Xbox One
Is PlayStation 4 really more powerful?



As a core gamer, it's difficult not to be frustrated by the manner of yesterday's Xbox reveal. Microsoft set out to champion its innovative platform, its vision for multimedia and a renewed focus on making Kinect relevant again as a convincing alternative to the traditional remote. But we wanted to know about the new generation of gaming and the approach in revealing Xbox One titles via trailers with no single identifiable example of actual live gameplay was an enormous error in judgement. The problem is that next-gen trailers look no different to current-gen trailers - so there was no groundbreaking innovation, no authenticity and therefore no buzz. Even the promising Call of Duty: Ghosts reveal - perhaps the closest thing we had to actual gameplay - was in-engine footage apparently running on Xbox One hardware. Yet there were no assurances that this was actually real-time, or that this would be the actual quality of the game we will be playing in November.

There was a similar level of inscrutability about the actual specs of the Xbox One hardware too. In the presentation itself, Microsoft talked in broad strokes about the internals of the box - eight CPU cores, 8GB of (non-descript) RAM, multi-channel 802.11n WiFi, and a Blu-ray drive. But the only new information we had that hadn't previously leaked was the inclusion of a 500GB hard drive and a five billion transistor count for the main processor. Gaming specs like the CPU clock-speed, the type of RAM, the make-up of the graphics core - all the most controversial elements of the leaked information, in other words - were ignored. The cynical may suggest that highlighting this would do Xbox One no favours in comparison to the PlayStation 4, while the Microsoft faithful could perhaps hold out hope that the more disappointing elements of the previous leaks were outright wrong.

A follow-up architecture panel hosted by Microsoft's Larry Hyrb soon put paid to the latter, more optimistic appraisal of the situation. Very early on it was established that ESRAM is indeed incorporated into the Xbox One design - essentially a large, very fast cache of embedded memory attached to the GPU and CPU that helps to make up the bandwidth deficit inherent in using slower memory. So even without direct confirmation, we now knew that the 8GB of memory in Xbox One is indeed DDR3 as opposed to the bandwidth-rich GDDR5 found in the PlayStation 4 (and Wired's internal photography of the One confirms 2133MHz DDR3 Micron modules). Xbox One may well have a latency advantage over PS4 and power consumption will probably be lower, but GPU bandwidth - a key element in graphics performance - is indeed more limited on the Microsoft hardware.

In terms of the GPU hardware, hard information was difficult to come by, but one of the engineers did let slip with a significant stat - 768 operations per clock. We know that both Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are based on Radeon GCN architecture and we also know that each compute unit is capable of 64 operations per clock. So, again through a process of extrapolation from the drip-feed of hard facts, the make-up of the One's GPU is confirmed - 12 compute units each capable of 64 ops/clock gives us the 768 total revealed by Microsoft and thus, by extension, the 1.2 teraflop graphics core. So that's another tick on the Durango leaked spec that has been transposed across to the final Xbox One architecture and the proof we need that PlayStation 4's 18 CU graphics core has 50 per cent more raw power than the GPU in the new Microsoft console. Now, bearing in mind that we fully expect PlayStation 4 and Xbox One to launch at similar price-points, how did this disparity come about?

The answer to that comes down to a specific gamble Sony made that Microsoft could not - the utilisation of a unified pool of GDDR5 memory. In the early days of PS4 development, only 2GB of this type of memory looked viable for a consumer-level device. As higher density modules became available, this was duly upgraded to 4GB. By the time of the reveal back in February, Sony had confidence that it could secure volume of 512MB modules and surprised everyone (even developers) by announcing that PS4 would ship with 8GB of unified GDDR5 RAM. The design of its surrounding architecture would not need to change throughout this process - one set of 16 GDDR5 chips would simply be swapped out for another.

Microsoft never had the luxury of this moving target. With multimedia such a core focus for its hardware, it set out to support 8GB of RAM from day one (at the time giving it a huge advantage over the early PS4 target RAM spec) and with serious volume of next-gen DDR4 unattainable in the time window, it zeroed in on supporting DDR3 and doing whatever was necessary to make that work on a console. The result is a complex architecture - 32MB of ESRAM is added to the processor die, along with "data move engines" to courier information around the system as quickly as possible with bespoke encode/decode hardware to alleviate common bottlenecks. Bottom line: if you're wondering why Xbox One has a weaker GPU than PlayStation 4, it's because both platform holders have similar silicon budgets for the main processor - Sony has used the die-space for additional compute units and ROPs (32 vs. 16 in One), while Microsoft has budgeted for ESRAM and data move engines instead. From the Xbox perspective, it's just unfortunate for Microsoft that Sony's gamble paid off - right up until the wire, it was confident of shipping with twice the amount of RAM as PlayStation 4.


Read more here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one

Glad to see the information is finally getting ok'd for release. Like I said yesterday, I've done head to head tests with our engine without console specific optimization and our scenario's had a significant FPS boost on the PS4. That's not to say that once we make specific customizations that the Xbox will not be able to perform up to par but I personally haven't even scratched the surface of that as my development is primarily PC based.

So today, in a 1:1 battle with the same code the PS4 has outperformed the Xbox in all test aspects. Lighting, collision, frame rate, particle effects, geometry rendering, draw distance, etc. I have no clue about the networking side because that's just not part of my job. As I said before that's how it stands today and we're not even working with production models yet.

I posted this in the Xbox thread and people just seemed to gloss over it. They'd rather fight about backwards compatibility (which I was told was coming with the Xbox and I guess was lied to?) and about the DRM which will eventually be for both systems. I've said in this thread many times before that publishers have been pushing for a DRM solution for years. Finally, the console makers were willing to begin to put measures in place so used games sales can give more revenue back to the publishers and developers. I appreciate that the console makers are willing to take the PR hit in all of this. It's not like these games won't go on sale at some point. Have you seen how quickly recent AAA games, especially from Square Enix, have dropped down to $30/$20 just weeks after release? Companies that sell used games have been leeching off the industry for far too long and it's going to finally begin to stop. Every publisher and developer wants a DRM solution that *shockingly* will give us more revenue. We also want a solution that will not be a headache, that you will be able to take with you to various devices and places, and that will allow you to keep your physical media if you choose to.

All of this is still evolving and more info will come during/after E3. Expect the info to come out in interviews with the corporate brass of MS Sony, and with developers. Don't expect them to line up in their press conferences and come out and tell you you're going to be handcuffed.

 

[thehealthinspector]

you still a tools developer hybrid?  like artist tools?

whats up with all these shiny wet surfaces im seeing in upcoming games?  is that the new next gen

 

[hybridsoldier23]

you still a tools developer hybrid?  like artist tools?

whats up with all these shiny wet surfaces im seeing in upcoming games?  is that the new next gen

I'm actually, doing gameplay now on this current project. I was doing technical artist work where I was making internal middle-ware to go between artists and programmers and then dabbled in some UI work. Although my background is computer science I'm actually working towards moving to a producer role. My technical knowledge mixed with my communication skills allows me to work well in-between every group in the studio. After everything I've done in the industry I think that's going to end up being my true calling.

Edit: To answer your question about the wet surfaces it's just about the new tools with regards to shaders and lighting that have been upgraded recently. A lot for next gen has stepped up with regards to using the physics of fluid mechanics in games, dynamic rain water and things like that. I've seen some mocap tests with people using mercury rather than water to simulate wet surfaces. That may be part of the problem... Bloom also makes things look really wonky, I'm not a big fan of it as it gives everything a very plastic look. As we get familiar with the new tools things should even out. I'd suggest watching the GDC presentation again about the FOX engine as what they're doing in their studio is very indicative of where things are going. A lot of other studios are not that far along.

 

[thehealthinspector]

cool, good luck with that

thanks for the answer, i was just sorta semi-joking cause i seriously see this becoming overdone in games

but yeah, ive been keeping up a little on the whole physically based rendering push studios are taking

 

[Bend_The_Knee]

BBC news : Sony has competitive advantage.

Sony, which will show off the PlayStation 4 at next month's E3 event in Los Angeles, has remained fairly tight-lipped on their plans for dealing with pre-owned games.

Its worldwide studios president, Shuhei Yoshida, told news site Eurogamer used games would not be "blocked" on the console, but would not specify whether there would be a fee for using pre-owned titles.

Mr Barton said Sony could use the situation to gain a considerable competitive advantage over its rival.

"If Sony doesn't follow suit, I think for a reasonable proportion of the gaming market, this will be a big plus for the PlayStation console."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22623010

 

[concordflightxi]

Glad to see the information is finally getting ok'd for release. Like I said yesterday, I've done head to head tests with our engine without console specific optimization and our scenario's had a significant FPS boost on the PS4. That's not to say that once we make specific customizations that the Xbox will not be able to perform up to par but I personally haven't even scratched the surface of that as my development is primarily PC based.

So today, in a 1:1 battle with the same code the PS4 has outperformed the Xbox in all test aspects. Lighting, collision, frame rate, particle effects, geometry rendering, draw distance, etc. I have no clue about the networking side because that's just not part of my job. As I said before that's how it stands today and we're not even working with production models yet.

I posted this in the Xbox thread and people just seemed to gloss over it. They'd rather fight about backwards compatibility (which I was told was coming with the Xbox and I guess was lied to?) and about the DRM which will eventually be for both systems. I've said in this thread many times before that publishers have been pushing for a DRM solution for years. Finally, the console makers were willing to begin to put measures in place so used games sales can give more revenue back to the publishers and developers. I appreciate that the console makers are willing to take the PR hit in all of this. It's not like these games won't go on sale at some point. Have you seen how quickly recent AAA games, especially from Square Enix, have dropped down to $30/$20 just weeks after release? Companies that sell used games have been leeching off the industry for far too long and it's going to finally begin to stop. Every publisher and developer wants a DRM solution that *shockingly* will give us more revenue. We also want a solution that will not be a headache, that you will be able to take with you to various devices and places, and that will allow you to keep your physical media if you choose to.

All of this is still evolving and more info will come during/after E3. Expect the info to come out in interviews with the corporate brass of MS Sony, and with developers. Don't expect them to line up in their press conferences and come out and tell you you're going to be handcuffed.

I also replied to that quote in the Xbox thread but this seems to be a better thread for it. This is what I wrote in the Xbox thread:

"My concern here is, I hope that the PS4 isn't hampered by the weaker Xbox One. Like they just build a game for the Xbox One call it a day and bring a weak port over to the PS4. Does it work that way? Honest question.

I just still feel a little burned that I chose the PS3 since it was the stronger system, but I ended up getting NBA 2k13 and Madden not being as smooth as its Xbox 360 counterpart. They say it had alot to do with the PS3 being hard for Devs and that the PS4 is more Dev-friendly. But only time will tell."

 

[Sinner]

"My concern here is, I hope that the PS4 isn't hampered by the weaker Xbox One. Like they just build a game for the Xbox One call it a day and bring a weak port over to the PS4. Does it work that way? Honest question.

I just still feel a little burned that I chose the PS3 since it was the stronger system, but I ended up getting NBA 2k13 and Madden not being as smooth as its Xbox 360 counterpart. They say it had alot to do with the PS3 being hard for Devs and that the PS4 is more Dev-friendly. But only time will tell."

That exact thought crossed my mind too.   I hope that isn't the case for the PS4.

 

[jayfiend]

That exact thought crossed my mind too.   I hope that isn't the case for the PS4.

I have the same concerns.

Hybrid said a couple pages that it really shouldn't be a problem because both are using x86??? I have no idea what in talking bout. But he said it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Bad Religion]

NHL 14 will not be coming to PS4.

EA will stick to September release for 360 and PS3, then focus on next-gen for 15 I guess.

 

[D Double]

Glad to see the information is finally getting ok'd for release. Like I said yesterday, I've done head to head tests with our engine without console specific optimization and our scenario's had a significant FPS boost on the PS4. That's not to say that once we make specific customizations that the Xbox will not be able to perform up to par but I personally haven't even scratched the surface of that as my development is primarily PC based.

So today, in a 1:1 battle with the same code the PS4 has outperformed the Xbox in all test aspects. Lighting, collision, frame rate, particle effects, geometry rendering, draw distance, etc. I have no clue about the networking side because that's just not part of my job. As I said before that's how it stands today and we're not even working with production models yet.

I posted this in the Xbox thread and people just seemed to gloss over it. They'd rather fight about backwards compatibility (which I was told was coming with the Xbox and I guess was lied to?) and about the DRM which will eventually be for both systems. I've said in this thread many times before that publishers have been pushing for a DRM solution for years. Finally, the console makers were willing to begin to put measures in place so used games sales can give more revenue back to the publishers and developers. I appreciate that the console makers are willing to take the PR hit in all of this. It's not like these games won't go on sale at some point. Have you seen how quickly recent AAA games, especially from Square Enix, have dropped down to $30/$20 just weeks after release? Companies that sell used games have been leeching off the industry for far too long and it's going to finally begin to stop. Every publisher and developer wants a DRM solution that *shockingly* will give us more revenue. We also want a solution that will not be a headache, that you will be able to take with you to various devices and places, and that will allow you to keep your physical media if you choose to.

All of this is still evolving and more info will come during/after E3. Expect the info to come out in interviews with the corporate brass of MS Sony, and with developers. Don't expect them to line up in their press conferences and come out and tell you you're going to be handcuffed.

So Sony will have some sort of DRM as well. From Yoshida's interviews it sounds like they would put something in place and have the developers decide to use it or not.

If it's system wide like the XBone then I can that causing problems

 

[iheartboost]

"My concern here is, I hope that the PS4 isn't hampered by the weaker Xbox One. Like they just build a game for the Xbox One call it a day and bring a weak port over to the PS4. Does it work that way? Honest question.

I just still feel a little burned that I chose the PS3 since it was the stronger system, but I ended up getting NBA 2k13 and Madden not being as smooth as its Xbox 360 counterpart. They say it had alot to do with the PS3 being hard for Devs and that the PS4 is more Dev-friendly. But only time will tell."

This is very possible due to the Xbox 360 lead in consoles growth, it could easily translate over to the next gen. Hopefully it is NOT, and in Sony favor they hope it's not either.

 

[thehealthinspector]

i honestly dont see any performance problems on ps4... barring any agendas

... the power and ease of architecture/development is too obvious

i get the feeling that some studios this gen sorta just knew that everyone knows ps3 is hard to develop for so it was just whatever

my concern is the rising use of Graphics Compute coming in games and how the ps4 has been designed for it where as that other machine hasnt... or at least we havent heard of any modifications to the gpu that micosoft have been willing to talk about if any

are we going to see poor uses of it on ps4 because of xbone or will devs step up and make use of that power along with those modifications that have been made to the ps4s gpu

im no software engineer but im pretty sure that theoretically the ps4 could match the xbone's graphics and still have 1/3 of its power (600gigflops) to dedicate towards graphics compute... that's like the wii-u's entire graphics card

also...

[h1]PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One on paper – but Microsoft will catch up, says Avalanche Studios[/h1]
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Comments 1
Neil Long at 11:10am May 23 2013

PlayStation 4 currently beats Xbox One in terms of raw power and has a more mature developer environment, Avalanche Studios has told us.

The Just Cause creator is working with each next gen console right now, and says that in terms of pure specifications and working environment, PS4 is the preferable console. But with Xbox One’s cloud capabilities and further developer support coming, Sony can’t claim an early victory just yet.

We asked Avalanche’s chief technical officer Linus Blomberg how the two consoles compare. “It’s difficult to say, as it’s still early days when it comes to drivers,” he told us. “With each new driver release, performance increases dramatically in some areas. The PlayStation 4 environment is definitely more mature currently, so Microsoft has some catching up to do. But I’m not too concerned about that as they traditionally have been very good in that area. The specs on paper would favour the PS4 over the Xbox One in terms of raw power, but there are many other factors involved so we’ll just have to wait and see a bit longer before making that judgment.”

Chief creative officer Christofer Sundberg also told us that Xbox One’s connected play will allow Avalanche’s games to become more directly relevant to its players.

“We were one of the fortunate developers to get our hands on the Xbox One early, but the public reveal only confirms that Microsoft is staying on course with their plans – to make the Xbox One the entertainment center of the living room,”  he told us. “The big positive was obviously that it’s a fantastic piece of hardware offering a huge range of possibilities for developers to connect with players in ways that have been close to impossible to date.”

“Next generation to me has always meant more than nice graphics,” he added. “I don’t really see any big negatives at this point. For me, the success of the new consoles will be determined by how much freedom developers will have to make our gaming experiences customized for our fans.”

dont mind the second part of the headline, its misleading... there is no catching up in terms of power

 

[speedy0990]

Thu, May 23, 2013 | 12:05 BST
[h1]Call of Duty Ghosts: not a new engine, but is upgraded says dev[/h1]
Call of Duty: Ghosts was shown at Microsoft’s Xbox One reveal on Tuesday, and with it, speculation of a new game engine followed. It’s not an entirely new engine, Infinity Ward’s animation lead Zach Volker has confirmed, but it has seen significant upgrades.

If you haven’t seen the game running yet, you can check out our trailer coverage here first.

Speaking with OPM, Volker said of the Ghosts engine, “When we’re talking about a new engine we’re talking about upgrading significant systems within in that engine. We’re not talking about throwing it all away and saying we’re starting from the ground up”.

Volker added that it would be “impossible to develop a new engine from the ground up in a two year cycle,” and added, “What we do is we say, ‘okay what are the things that are significant and that we would say that are encompassing of the engine or its visual quality? Are those being upgraded in a significant way? Alright, then I think that warrants that we’ve got a new engine on our hands”.

So it’s not new-new but new-enhanced. Do you see?

What do you make of the above? Did the Ghosts footage on Xbox One look good regardless of a totally new engine? Let us know below.

 

[jayfiend]

Thu, May 23, 2013 | 12:05 BST
[h1]Call of Duty Ghosts: not a new engine, but is upgraded says dev[/h1]

Call of Duty: Ghosts was shown at Microsoft’s Xbox One reveal on Tuesday, and with it, speculation of a new game engine followed. It’s not an entirely new engine, Infinity Ward’s animation lead Zach Volker has confirmed, but it has seen significant upgrades.

If you haven’t seen the game running yet, you can check out our trailer coverage here first.
Speaking with OPM, Volker said of the Ghosts engine, “When we’re talking about a new engine we’re talking about upgrading significant systems within in that engine. We’re not talking about throwing it all away and saying we’re starting from the ground up”.
Volker added that it would be “impossible to develop a new engine from the ground up in a two year cycle,” and added, “What we do is we say, ‘okay what are the things that are significant and that we would say that are encompassing of the engine or its visual quality? Are those being upgraded in a significant way? Alright, then I think that warrants that we’ve got a new engine on our hands”.
So it’s not new-new but new-enhanced. Do you see?
What do you make of the above? Did the Ghosts footage on Xbox One look good regardless of a totally new engine? Let us know below.

Man I'm getting tired of COD...

I think I will be taking my talent to Battlefield this year.

 

[geministar]

Man I'm getting tired of COD...

I think I will be taking my talent to Battlefield this year.

 

[royal assassin]

i don't eem care, i'm gettin that driveclub asap 

 

[jayfiend]

What? I've been hearing good things about Battlefield. Are those lies???