The NBA Stats Thread: The 15-year chain reaction that led to the NBA's current offensive explosion

[pmatic]

Haberstroh:

The Dwyane Wade problem

In reviewing Dwyane Wade’s Game 6 performance -- after which he complained that he wasn’t getting enough opportunities to succeed -- there are two shots that stand out.

The first came in the opening four minutes of the game Saturday against the Pacers. LeBron James passed to Wade on the right baseline with 10 seconds left on the shot clock. James cleared out of the way for Wade, which allowed Wade to go at Lance Stephenson one-on-one. With his teammates retreating to the opposite side, Wade casually posted Stephenson up on the right block, dribbled three times, turned his right shoulder into traffic and found himself looking straight into David West’s armpit.

Uh oh. Now faced with a double-team, Wade tried a maneuver he’s successfully done throughout his career: draw contact and the shooting foul. Instead, West and Stephenson stood straight up and Wade flailed his arms wildly on a layup trying to get the whistle. While Wade was falling toward the basket, West already had snatched the ball away and begun to lead the Pacers’ fastbreak.

The second memorable Wade play took place early in the third quarter. Chris Bosh came to set a high screen for Wade at the top of the key with 15 seconds left on the shot clock. Wade declined to use the screen and opted for an isolation on Stephenson instead. Wade lowered his head and started to slowly dribble toward Stephenson, who backpedaled into the paint and gave Wade some airspace. As the shot clock ticked down to 10 seconds, Wade stopped in his tracks, pulled up just before the foul line for a midrange jumper and clanked it on the front end of the rim.

Why do these two shots stick out?

Because they demonstrate that Wade’s problem is not rooted in a lack of opportunity; it is a lack of ability.

These were just two of many occasions in Game 6 where Wade was given a chance to work his magic, but the dove fell limp inside the black top hat. We’re still waiting for Wade to show us those moments where he’s Dwyane Wade again, but rarely do those moments ever come.

Sitting at his locker after Game 6 with enormous icebags on his knees, Wade groaned about the lack of touches and about being left out of the offense. Wade finished with just 10 points Saturday on 3-of-11 shooting. However, the target of his frustration feels misplaced. Rather than blaming his teammates for locking him out of the flow, Wade should be looking at himself -- specifically, the flat tire that is his right leg.

As a result of the bruised right knee that has limited Wade for two months, it’s plain to see that Wade’s game looks bankrupt right now.

Unable to make hard cuts and explode off the dribble, the former Finals MVP has been routinely neutralized in the pick-and-roll and in isolations against a stout Pacers defense. In Game 6, he generated just two shots in the restricted area and missed them both. Conversely, he settled for eight jumpers, many of which were early in the shot clock, and missed five of them.

More often than not, Wade has taken his opportunities and turned them into uninspired jumpers. That development wouldn’t be so troublesome if Wade possessed a reliable jump shot, but that shot has failed him as well. He’s shooting a miserable 32.7 percent (34 for 104) on jump shots in the playoffs so far, according to Basketball-Reference.com. That places him 23rd in jump shot field goal percentage out of the 27 players with at least 100 jumpers this postseason.

But the damage is much worse than that because 100 of those 104 Wade jump shots have come inside the 3-point arc, where the payoff is comparatively low. Most players who shoot that low on jumpers are taking them from downtown, where it’s acceptable to shoot about 33 percent. Wade is the lone exception. In fact, when we account for the added value of the 3-point shot, Wade’s effective field goal percentage on jumpers falls to dead last at 33.2 percent.

Wade doesn’t have many weapons left. We’ve already sounded the sirens on Wade’s lack of free throws in this space. He’s down to a measly 3.6 free throw attempts per game, exactly half of what it was in last season's playoffs (7.2 attempts). But compounding the issue is the lack of shots at the rim. The free throw count is available for the world to see in the box score, but the easy shots around the rim are just as concerning.

What we discover from NBA.com’s stats tool is a concerning trend. In his past 10 games, Wade has averaged just 4.4 attempts per game in the restricted area, down from his regular-season rate of 6.6 attempts. Remember when Wade’s knee bothered him throughout last postseason? This is much worse. When Wade’s knee plagued him last playoffs, he was still able to find 6.2 close-range shots per game, converting at a much higher percentage than he has been lately (69.0 percent, compared to 59.1 percent in his past 10 games).

So, is this a glimpse into the future for Wade? Frustrated and grounded by his body, reduced to midrange jumpers?

It’s possible, yes. This is the third straight postseason where Wade has been compromised by a balky knee, but it’s the first time it has plagued him to the point where he’s no longer playing at a star-caliber level. The severity of the injury may be worse, and it doesn’t help that he’s forced to play against an unforgiving Pacers defense.

But Wade is 31 years old now, at the cusp of when elite shooting guards tend to fade due to a lack of quickness and athleticism. If Wade wants to turn it around in Game 7, he should be looking in the mirror, rather than faulting others for his struggles. He just might not like what he sees.

 

[antidope]

More often than not, Wade has taken his opportunities and turned them into uninspired jumpers. That development wouldn’t be so troublesome if Wade possessed a reliable jump shot, but that shot has failed him as well. He’s shooting a miserable 32.7 percent (34 for 104) on jump shots in the playoffs so far, according to Basketball-Reference.com. That places him 23rd in jump shot field goal percentage out of the 27 players with at least 100 jumpers this postseason.

All I needed to read. This guy has the nerve to blame others for this like I said yesterday this Al boils down to him wanting easy looks and not getting them.


 

Hill could have reached 25,000 points, 9,700 rebounds, and 7,800 assists with those type numbers if he played 15 seasons in relative health. With guys like Kobe, Nash, Kidd, KG, etc playin 17-18-19 years, that's not that far fetched for Hill to at least reach 15 decent years at those totals. That's without assuming that he would have been even better at 27-28-29 like most players are and maybe elevated those numbers.

I suppose with some real good luck, and a couple extra years, that's a 28K, 10K, 8,500 type range. With plus defense to boot.

We were robbed.

We sure were. This was my guy when he was in Orlando man I loved his game.

 

[pmatic]

The Pacers 5 Holds the Key to Game 7

View media item 439764
When the Eastern Conference Finals began, we looked at how the Pacers starting 5 matched up against the Big 3+1 from Miami. As any first grader can tell you, 5 is greater than 4.

In 128 minutes the 4-man lineup of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and Mario Chalmers has played Indiana to a stalemate ... a plus/minus of 0.0. They have not fared quite as well on a per possession basis, having a Net Rating of -5.2 per 100 possessions (the 0.0 +/- is due to an unequal number of offensive and defensive possessions while on the floor).

The Indiana 5 of George Hill, Lance Stephenson, Paul George, David West and Roy Hibbert -- have held the key throughout the series. Overall they are +49 (+8.2 per game), with a Net Rating of 16.1 (112.9 OffRtg/96.8 DefRtg). In their 3 wins they have been dominant, holding a 58 point aggregate advantage in 82 minutes on the floor with a Net Rating of 37.3. Those translate to per game averages of +19.3 in 27.3 minutes. In those wins they were both unstoppable offensively and infuriating defensively.

They haven't been too bad in the three losses either. Over 71 minutes they have only been outscored by 9 points, with a Net Rating of -8.0. Even in the Game 5 loss they defended as well as they have in their wins, albeit in limited minutes due to foul trouble. The Game 3 loss came despite another unstoppable offensive performance. It was only in Game 1, a game they had all but won, that the starting 5 played subpar on the both ends of the court.

Indiana entered the Eastern Conference Finals reliant on their starting five to produce. Fittingly, Game 7 now falls on that broad shouldered quintet.

Link

 

[antidope]

I wonder what that would look like if it was big three against big three becuase for the most part Hill and Lance have been ineffective, Hill especially. I feel like they might be dragging it down a bit.

 

[CP1708]

Hill has been bad in the losses, but Indy is MUCH better with him on the floor than DJ Augustine. It's not even close.

When Hill has been in foul trouble, or when he's played on the road (where role guys tend to play worse) he's struggled, but still better than any other options they have at PG.

 

[pmatic]

Now that they're season is over:

View media item 440567
George will be eligible for the max extension and he'll get it based on market value. West has earned himself another $10-12 million multi-year contract (I'd go three years tops). Hansbrough, Augustin and Young are more than likely gone. Granger should be back, but I don't know if he'll want to come off the bench in a contract year. Maybe the Pacers can get back two serviceable bench players. The money adds up QUICK.

Big decisions ahead.

Edit:

Oh yeah.

@johnschuhmann Final tally on IND lineups in series: Starting lineup: plus-46. All other lineups: minus-74: http://bit.ly/ZCQQMH

 

[pmatic]

CourtVision: How the Spurs and Heat Use the Most Important Shot in Basketball

At first glance, the Spurs and Heat do not seem to have much in common, but one thing they share is a love affair with the corner 3. Across the league, about 6.7 percent of field goal attempts are corner 3s, but Miami shoots 11.3 percent of its shots from the corners, the NBA's highest rate, and San Antonio is third at 9.5 percent.

The corner 3 has become the most lauded jump shot in the NBA for two reasons: it’s the closest 3-point shot on the floor — about 1 foot shorter than “above the break” 3s — and stashing great shooters in the corners creates annoying headaches for defenses. When a sharpshooter is loitering in the corner — especially on the weak side — he is necessarily about as far away from the action as he can be while still posing a huge scoring threat. As a result, a good corner man “stretches” the defense in ways that other players can’t. Both NBA finalists are really good at exploiting this tactic, and both feature a duo of corner-3 specialists.

Miami: Shane Battier and Ray Allen

This seems almost unfair. Both Shane Battier and Ray Allen are among the headiest players in the league, and both are elite spot-up shooters — as long as they’re not playing Indiana. Allen is arguably the best shooter of all time, but Battier actually had a better year. In fact, no player in the NBA had as many points from the corners as Battier this season.

The so-called "no-stats all-star" made 46 percent of his 191 corner 3s, outmatching Allen in terms of both attempts and efficiency. However, Battier has struggled to make these exact shots during the playoffs; he’s made 11 of 38 corner 3 attempts since the close of the regular season, and was particularly abysmal in the conference finals, when the great Pacers defense was able to shut him down. After playing 31 minutes in Game 1, Battier played 30 minutes combined in the final three games. I’m sure he’s looking forward to not playing against the Pacers (or the Bulls for that matter).

How does Battier get all those corner 3s? Well, 100 percent of them are assisted, and many of those come from an unsurprising source. Such are the trickle-down benefits of playing with LeBron James. When James is at his best, he attacks the defense, compromises its shape, creates openings for his teammates, and then finds them for wide-open shots. He might be the best passer in the game, and the Heat’s corner 3s offer huge evidence of that. Here we see four classic examples of James finding Battier open in the corner. As the MVP creates havoc and terrifies the defense, Battier slides around the perimeter and often ends up with a wide-open look.



People around the Heat organization are quick to tell you that the acquisition of Battier a couple years ago changed the team's culture. They say that his presence has elevated the professional climate in Miami. If that’s the case, Allen must have further entrenched those traits. Few players work as hard as Allen, who is almost compulsive in his attention to detail and preparation.

In his first season in Miami, Allen helped the Heat suddenly become one of the NBA's elite jump-shooting teams. Simply stated, Allen is great everywhere beyond the arc, but is frightening from the corners. Historically, he might be the greatest left-corner shooter ever, and this season he again demonstrated why; he made 49 percent of his 86 attempts there this season.

San Antonio: Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard

Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard are two young athletic guys who share a common trait: Just two years ago nobody in their right mind thought either player could shoot. Now, through some combination of hard work, playing for the Spurs, and the tutelage of the soon-to-be-legendary Chip Engelland, they’re both top-tier spot-up shooters.

In the fall of 2010, the Cleveland Cavaliers washed their hands of Green, and it looked like he was going to become just another casualty of a cruel league with limited roster spots. But then the Spurs came calling, and less than three years later he’s a starting shooting guard in the NBA Finals. While it’s tempting to suggest that Green is just the latest discovery by the Spurs, that sells everyone in the whole process a bit short. R.C. Buford and the San Antonio front office don’t simply find diamonds in the rough; they identify potential diamonds, develop them better than anyone in the league, give them confidence, and then integrate them into their well-calibrated system. Such is the case with Green, who is now one of the best 3-point scorers in the NBA, trailing only Battier in overall corner production this season.

Green started 80 games for the Spurs this year, and his reliability enabled Manu Ginobili to slide back into his comfort zone as a well-rationed sixth man. Like Battier, Green’s best scoring opportunities are created by his teammates. In his case he often loiters around the perimeter while Tony Parker bounces off countless picks, deconstructs the defense, and identifies the best option. Often, that best option is Green, open in the corner. Here we see four Green corner 3s that are each the result of Parker and the Spurs making fools out of opposing defenses.



Along with Green, the Spurs use Kawhi Leonard a ton in the corners. Similar to Green, Leonard's evolution as a sharpshooter has been nothing short of amazing. Two short years ago, the word on Leonard was that he was a great athlete but couldn’t shoot. He was sort of a poor man’s Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Take a look at this excerpt from his Draft Express profile:

Leonard is not only an average ball-handler, but he also struggles to make shots consistently from beyond the arc. His 0.743 points per shots on jumpers ranks 16th of 17 in the [draft] class, where he shot an abysmal 31% from the field. His struggles extend both to his catch and shoot jumpers (32%) and pull-ups (28%).

That was written about two years back. Here he is now, one of the most important shooters on the Spurs, making 43 percent of his corner 3s, far from abysmal. Like Green, Leonard is a testament to San Antonio's penchant for talent identification and development.

The Spurs have taken Green and Leonard and developed them into great shooters. The Heat have taken more of the Steinbrenner approach by acquiring established spot-up talent via free agency. Both teams complement their elite interior offenses with terrifying perimeter threats disguised as “role players.” In Miami you have James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh, who are constant attacking threats. In San Antonio you have Parker and Ginobili running off countless Tim Duncan/Boris Diaw/Tiago Splitter screens, perpetually surveying the scene for any sign of weakness. In both cases, the opposition is often forced to pick a poison, and many times that poison is an open corner 3.

In 2013, corner 3s are an indicator species of very healthy offensive ecosystems, and both of our finalists feature pristine scoring habitats. They have state-of-the-art NBA offenses that may be vastly different in many ways, but share an affinity for the corner 3. The outcome of these Finals will likely depend on Parker and James, but remember that part of their performance includes passing the basketball to the corners.

Link

 

[pmatic]

Pelton:

Is Duncan generation's best player?

Kobe Bryant. Tim Duncan. Kevin Garnett. Shaquille O'Neal. As the preeminent players who entered the NBA in the 1990s, those four stars have defined an era that is coming to a close. O'Neal has already retired, Garnett is operating on a year-to-year basis at this point, Duncan is winding down at age 37 and Bryant may never be the same after rupturing his Achilles tendon in April. But Duncan's resurgent season, which will culminate with a fifth trip to the NBA Finals -- some 14 years after his first -- has offered a reminder that no star has accomplished more since Michael Jordan.

Grantland's Bill Simmons has made the argument that Duncan is the best player of his generation, which he summarized in a feature for the "NBA on ESPN" pregame show.

After a full statistical breakdown, I agree. Comparing Duncan to each of his peers demonstrates the full breadth of his accomplishments.

Duncan vs. Kobe Bryant: career value

View media item 443955
The first cut at measuring the best players of the post-Jordan generation, and Bryant doesn't measure up to Duncan, Garnett, O'Neal and the recently retired Jason Kidd in terms of my wins above replacement (WARP) statistic. If Bryant can recover from his ruptured Achilles and play into his late 30s, he has a good chance of catching the other players. But given that Duncan is still busy adding to his total -- Bryant gained less than a win on him this season -- he will be tough to catch.

Duncan also has an advantage, though smaller, in Basketball-Reference.com's win shares (where Garnett slightly outpaces him) and career player efficiency rating. No matter the metric, the reason is the same: Bryant's best seasons weren't as good as Duncan's. MVP voting offers a similar conclusion. Duncan won a pair of MVP awards and finished second in the other two seasons between 2001 and 2004; Bryant has just one win and one second-place finish.

The difference between the two stars is that Duncan has been more valuable at both ends of the court. Despite Bryant's string of 12 consecutive all-defensive team appearances, Duncan is the more valuable defensive player because big men are so much more important defensively. That's reflected by their teams' success at the defensive end. During Bryant's career, the Lakers have been below average defensively six times, including the 29th-rated defense during the 2004-05 season. The Spurs defending so poorly with Duncan is inconceivable; their worst defense of the Duncan era ranked 11th in the league.

Bryant has been the better offensive player over the course of their careers, but the difference isn't enough to make up the gap on the defensive end of the floor.

Duncan vs. Kevin Garnett: playoff value

View media item 443956
When it comes to regular-season performance, Duncan and Garnett are hard to separate. They've put up virtually identical numbers throughout their careers. Adding postseason value into the mix provides a major distinction between the two players. While Duncan has been just as valuable in the playoffs as he has been in the regular season, Garnett drops to eighth on the postseason WARP leaderboard.

Obviously, that's not entirely or even primarily Garnett's fault. He spent his prime years stuck on second-tier teams in a loaded Western Conference and missed the playoffs entirely during each of his last three seasons in Minnesota, playing with Timberwolves teams that got only worse after his departure. Since Garnett has gotten to Boston, he has proved late in his career that he can be a valuable part of championship-caliber teams.

Still, Garnett wasn't quite as effective individually during the postseason. On average, his per-minute rating has decreased by 8 percent from the regular season to the playoffs. Duncan's has not dropped at all, which actually makes him a clutch performer. The average player with at least 4,000 postseason minutes saw their performance drop by 4 percent from the regular season because of superior opposition.

Garnett simply hasn't been as big a postseason factor as Duncan has been over the past decade and a half. And because the two players are near equals during the regular season, it's difficult to argue that Garnett ranks ahead of Duncan.

Duncan vs. Shaquille O'Neal: longevity

O'Neal's résumé makes him the strongest challenger to Duncan's claim as the best player of his generation. O'Neal still holds the edge in career and postseason WARP. While he won only one MVP, O'Neal could easily have two more, and he won as many championships (four) as Duncan has so far. But O'Neal's statistical advantage may be short-lived. Duncan is coming for his top spot in terms of most WARP among post-Jordan players, and coming quickly.

Compare the two players' career WARP totals by age:

View media item 443959
Because O'Neal peaked slightly later in terms of age (their best seasons overlapped chronologically in the early 2000s), he built an edge over Duncan in his late 20s. By now, Duncan has almost closed the gap thanks to his superior late-career performance. O'Neal's most valuable season after his first in Miami (2004-05) was as good as the worst season of Duncan's career. Over his final five NBA campaigns, O'Neal added just 20 WARP to his career total. Already, Duncan has totaled 32 WARP past the same age, and he's two years younger than O'Neal was at his retirement.

If anything, O'Neal's statistics probably overstate his value during his decline years because he was such a defensive liability against pick-and-rolls. Duncan remains one of the league's top defensive players. If he can maintain anything close to his level of play, Duncan will pass O'Neal for career WARP next season, and he still has a chance to end up with more postseason WARP as well.

Duncan vs. LeBron James: team success

It's hard to include James in this discussion because he doesn't truly belong to the same generation as Bryant, Duncan, Garnett and O'Neal. While those other players are finalizing their cases for greatness, James is still very much in the process of building his at the age of 28. Yet the fact James already ranks in the top five in career WARP during the regular season and playoffs among the post-Jordan group makes his destiny clear. As ESPN's Tom Haberstroh points out in his companion story, James has greater historic aspirations than just being the best since Jordan. He may yet prove better than Jordan.

No matter what James accomplishes over the next decade, it's unlikely he'll ever surpass Duncan in one category: consistent team success. As Simmons noted, the Spurs have won better than 70 percent of their games since drafting Duncan. On this count, nobody -- not even the great Bill Russell, whose Celtics won at a similar clip (.706 winning percentage) but over fewer years -- can match Duncan, who has played the most games of any player in NBA history with a .700-plus team winning percentage, according to Basketball-Reference.com's database.

View media item 443960
Russell is correctly known as the NBA's ultimate winner. In a modern 30-team league, it's nearly unfathomable that anyone could ever match his 11 championships in 13 years. In his own right, however, Duncan deserves to be recognized as the greatest winner in modern NBA history -- and the best player of his generation.

 

[CP1708]

Man....haven't heard from dude in 6 ******g years, now he's best of his generation, greatest winner of all time......

Now you guys see why I look around at the Spurs hype. They MIB flashy thing every season but 4 in folks memories.

 

[pmatic]

?

 

[antidope]

Man....haven't heard from dude in 6 ******g years, now he's best of his generation, greatest winner of all time......

Now you guys see why I look around at the Spurs hype. They MIB flashy thing every season but 4 in folks memories.

Haters gonna hate

 

[CP1708]

love those replies when somebody has nothing else to go with.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Haters gonna hate

In those 6 years he made the conference finals twice and and the finals once, what do you mean you haven't heard from him. You always exaggerate this.

 

[JD617]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/play...em-130606-2/lebron-james-pace-pass-tim-duncan

 

[antidope]

I meant to rep PMatic and ripped CP instead .

II can't convince you if anything but your perception of "heard" from is insanity. Being at the top of the league for more than a decade, being a legitimate title contender year in ad year out, and making it to the conference finals lat year and now the finals is certainly making noise. You don't have to win it all to be a force in the league man.

 

[proshares]

Can LeBron top Duncan?

Before the San Antonio Spurs practiced on Wednesday ahead of Game 1 of the 2013 NBA Finals, Tim Duncan was asked whether he expected to meet LeBron James in the Finals again after the Spurs' 2007 sweep over LeBron's Cleveland Cavaliers.

Duncan hoped the Spurs would make it back to the Finals, of course, but he indicated on Wednesday that he was sure James would return.

"Knowing the player that [James] was then and the trajectory he was on, I had no doubt he would be back here," Duncan said. "I had no doubt he would be tops in this league at some point." And here we are. A champion will be decided between the Heat and Spurs over the next two weeks, and depending on which team gets to four wins first, the legacies of Duncan and James will be altered.

As Per Diem pal Kevin Pelton shows us, Duncan reigns as the greatest player of this post-Jordan era. But it may not be long before King James wears the crown. As Duncan readily admits, James is the best player in the league. And he has been for quite some time, with four Most Valuable Player awards in five years.

Duncan, owner of four championship rings and two MVP awards, has had an astoundingly successful career that spans three decades. Not since Jordan has someone boasted individual and team success quite like Duncan. Not Shaquille O'Neal. Not Kobe Bryant. Not Kevin Garnett.

The gap between James and Duncan is closing fast.

The key word in Duncan's statement about LeBron is "trajectory," the functional word in any legacy conversation regarding James. We can't fully compare the career of James to Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, KG or Kobe because those all-time greats are either finished or wrapping up their careers, while James is in his prime.

Because of these staggered NBA career arcs, we're forced to measure James and his trajectory, not the sum of his accomplishments. This can be awkward stuff.

Here are some things you probably haven't done very often:

Have you watched a movie and paused it halfway to compare its merits to those of "The Godfather"? Have you stopped dinner after soup and salad and declared it the best meal of all time? Or listened to the first six songs on an album and deemed a band better than the Beatles or [insert you favorite musician here]?

OK, basketball isn't just about personal taste and isn't as abstract as art and cuisine; we can quantify greatness a little more easily.

Still, we have to qualify anything we say about LeBron's place among the all-time greats.

So our sentences start like this:

He's on pace to …
James is the youngest ever to …
At James' age, Michael Jordan was …

Yet there's no way around it: James is on track to be one of the very greatest ever and to be the greatest player of the post-Jordan era.

On track.

One funny thing about James and Duncan is you could hardly find two greats with more dissimilar paths to greatness. Duncan played four years in college, James none. From day one, Duncan starred next to a Hall of Famer still in his prime (David Robinson); James had to wait until his eighth season, and leave Cleveland controversially, to play with an All-NBA teammate. Duncan had Popovich as his first (and only) coach; James had Paul Silas, Brendan Malone and Mike Brown as his first three coaches. You can hardly imagine a better situation for Duncan or a worse one for James.

That's one reason it's difficult to make a direct comparison between Duncan and James. Considering they play different positions and have had such different career arcs, comparing Duncan and James is like comparing apples to ostriches. And in NBA evaluation, separating the individual from his context is tough business.

One technique is to use advanced stats to put players on a more level playing ground, and one tool is Pelton's wins above replacement player (WARP), which can tell us how players' individual numbers have translated into wins.

As Pelton points out, Duncan has accumulated 258 WARP in his 16-year career (16.1 WARP per season) whereas James has already produced 216 WARP on his 10-year résumé (21.6 WARP per season). At this rate, James would pass Duncan by age 31 or so, if we assume Duncan still has a couple more years left at his current rate. It probably won't take long for James -- who already has as many regular-season WARP (216) as Bryant in seven fewer seasons -- to be the regular-season WARP leader of the post-Jordan era.

You can see James (above in red) has started pulling away from the pack. That's the trajectory that Duncan was talking about.

But Duncan has a commanding lead in the postseason department, right? Actually, no, and that's what's so fascinating here. When we look at their individual accomplishments, James trails Duncan in postseason WARP by only 10 (53 to 43) while playing in 73 fewer games. In other words, Duncan has just a 23 percent lead in postseason WARP despite playing in 56 percent more postseason games.

If you prefer more traditional numbers to assess James' postseason production, he is averaging 28.2 points, 8.5 rebounds and 6.7 assists in his playoff career. In fact, he is only one of three players in playoff history to average at least 25 points, five assists and five rebounds. The other two: Jordan and Jerry West.

In terms of legacy, it's hard to find a more fitting mix for James than those two icons: the greatest of all time and the logo of the league who needed 12 seasons before he won his first title.

Let's talk about those titles. For many, rings are the end-all, be-all. James has won only one Larry O'Brien trophy, and until he matches Duncan (four, and going for a fifth), Bryant (five), Shaq (four) and Jordan (six), a large section of the NBA audience won't consider James an equal.

But that line of reasoning conflates individual success with team success.

Put it this way. If we swapped James and Duncan's supporting casts and organizations, how would we feel about their careers? What if James entered the league with Dwight Howard in his prime as a teammate, just as Kobe enjoyed with Shaq (and that assumes Howard is even in Shaq's stratosphere)? Should we penalize James for having guys like Larry Hughes and Sasha Pavlovic as his Scottie Pippen?

Objectively, Duncan may be the best player of the post-Jordan era now, but James is already nipping at his heels from a statistical standpoint. While the four-time MVP may not have been gifted with the supporting casts of the post-Jordan giants, his individual production at age 28 is astounding. With a supporting cast more befitting his stature, James has reached the Finals in three straight seasons and a second title is in view.

Even if Duncan wins this time around, he's probably just delaying the inevitable. For James, most of his legacy has yet to be written. For perspective, Jordan ended up being regarded as the greatest ever, but he hadn't won a title yet by his 28th birthday. James at 28 is already looking for his second.

 

[proshares]

The Jazz hired Karl Malone as a "part-time big man coach."

How about this:

Gordon Hayward's PER as a shooting guard: 15.1
Paul George's: 12.3

Hayward's PER as a small forward: 18.6
George's: 17.2

Opposing shooting guards' PER against Hayward: 13.6
Against George: 17.6

Opposing small forwards' PER against Hayward: 12.4
Against George: 12.0



If they don't end up making a move for Bledsoe, I hope they end up with Dennis Schroeder in the draft (even if it means trading up).

Sidebar: I'm like this close to making a Jazz thread.

I need to start posting on SLC Dunk or something.

Do it. I'd be in there more than the Knicks thread.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Haters gonna hate

In those 6 years he made the conference finals twice and and the finals once, what do you mean you haven't heard from him. You always exaggerate this.

Bring up why the Lakers suck this year dude brings up injuries so its not Kobe's fault.

Dude then turns around and brings up Timmy and Pop going out in to 6th seed and a 8th seed when Manu Ginobli missed half the season in 09 and played with one arm in 2011.

If you really pay attention to dude its actually funny because he's in complete and utter denial about his homerism

 

[pmatic]

Duncan was not healthy in 2011 either. He hurt his knee or ankle before the playoffs against the Warriors.

 

[CP1708]

SneakerPro, please don't take this the wrong way, but you're ******g blind.

I WAS USING THEIR LOGIC AGAINST THEM WHEN I SPOKE ON 2011. NOT MY LOGIC, THEIRRRRRRRRRRR LOGIC.

I don't care about injuries, refs, etc. Win or lose, period. We lost in 08, tip your cap. They beat us. I wish I had the 2, but oh well, we got beat fair and square.
2011, I tipped my cap, got beat, fair square.
2012, 13, fair, square, cap, tipped.

I used their logic man.

 

[CP1708]

Duncan was not healthy in 2011 either. He hurt his knee or ankle before the playoffs against the Warriors.

Any others that we missed? Spur injuries count each year, I know Duncan had an ankle for 2000, so we just need to cover 01, 02, 04, 06, 08, 10 and 12 and they'll be workin on a perfect five-peat right now.
Wasn't Parker banged up one of those years?

 

[SneakerProSr.]

SneakerPro, please don't take this the wrong way, but you're ******g blind.

I WAS USING THEIR LOGIC AGAINST THEM WHEN I SPOKE ON 2011. NOT MY LOGIC, THEIRRRRRRRRRRR LOGIC.

I don't care about injuries, refs, etc. Win or lose, period. We lost in 08, tip your cap. They beat us. I wish I had the 2, but oh well, we got beat fair and square.
2011, I tipped my cap, got beat, fair square.
2012, 13, fair, square, cap, tipped.

I used their logic man.

Here is the Anger stage of Grief.

 

[CP1708]

Tips cap, again.

 

[CP1708]

Bottom line, you, P, and Osh all made my point the last few days.

For the SPURS it counts that you "made the conference finals" or "contend every year" or have injured ankles/knees before-during the playoffs, the Spurs get a pass, from every fanbase. Without question.

I bring those points up........hater, homer.

Someday someone else will see it.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

You still my guy man.