LEBRON, THE DISAPPOINTMENT?

Will Lebron be considered the best of all time?

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^why does Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Nique, Miller, Iverson get punished for never winning a ring? "Their class"..."Now bron can't be associated with those guys" "it sets him at a different table than say them"

They are great players, HOFers....a ring or no ring doesn't make or break that.

if it wasn't meant to be, then it just wasn't. You play to your situation. Ringless players are better than some who are Lord of the rings.

I actually respect those guys more, for not ditching and joining forces with other people to chase a ring.

in essence, tho...1 ring is just 1 ring. Just that, welcome to Jason Kidd, Dirk's club.
 
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MaseratiMargiel said:
^why does Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Nique, Miller, Iverson get punished for never winning a ring? "Their class"..."Now bron can't be associated with those guys" "it sets him at a different table than say them"

They are great players, HOFers....a ring or no ring doesn't make or break that.

if it wasn't meant to be, then it just wasn't. You play to your situation. Ringless players are better than some who are Lord of the rings.

I actually respect those guys more, for not ditching and joining forces with other people to chase a ring.

in essence, tho...1 ring is just 1 ring. Just that, welcome to Jason Kidd, Dirk's club.
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No, it doesn't make or break them. No, it doesn't change their HOF careers.

But you aren't gifted the title 'Champion'. You either were one during your career, or you weren't.

They weren't.

He is.

"Yeah, but that doesn't mean they're not HOFers." Never said they're not. But they're not "HOFers who won a championship."

"Well they still had amazing careers." Absolutely!! But they didn't have amazing careers that included a ring.

"So are you saying Lebron is better than them because he won a ring and they didn't?" Nope. I'm saying he's a champion, so in my mind, he's not a disappointment.

It's really just that simple.
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I really don't care about rings. It's such a stupid and tired argument. Y'all can bicker about that for I don't care how long. Lebron is already the most talented player the NBA has ever seen. Talent helps win rings but they don't directly correlate, this isn't golf this is basketball. When it comes to talent, there will be a much better chance of seeing another Jordan....Kobe Bryant for example. But to see someone clone and out do Lebron....we'll probably be waiting a while. So no Lebron isn't a disappointment. He was the most hyped player ever to be drafted, he was a kid with all that on his shoulders, and somehow he exceeded expectations.
 
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tyisny said:
Fam im not disputing your fan affiliation to the knicks.... but i will say that around 70% of the time i see you post in S&T it has something to do with Bron or bigging up the Heat. It's fine to be a fan of a great player, but your CONSTANTLY talking about the Heat & Lebron
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Have you checked the Lakers thread? I've spoken way more about Dwight Howard this season (go ask the Laker fans). Have you checked the Knicks thread? I've spoken way more about ideas to help our team. Have you checked the NBA thread? Today I'm talking about the Nuggets and how great they are.

I don't like LeBron James, I thought it was a sucker/desperate move for him to leave Miami and join forces with some of the best players in the world. But I'm forced to respect his game because I'm a basketball fan first, but I'm no where near being a fan of LeBron James, I just respect him.

I'm talking about LeBron and the Heat because this is a LeBron thread dude :lol: everyone else and there mother is talking about LeBron James and the Heat because of the media hyping up this winning streak. Currently it's the number one topic.

Is that not clear? maybe you start reading my history, it's on my profile. You can backtrack a couple weeks and read some of the things I say. Then come back at me and apologize. I'm not a fan of players either, I'm a fan of the New York Knicks and basketball. You'll never catch me with players in my avatars or on my signatures. I just try to tell the truth.
 
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MaseratiMargiel said:
^why does Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Nique, Miller, Iverson get punished for never winning a ring? "Their class"..."Now bron can't be associated with those guys" "it sets him at a different table than say them"


They are great players, HOFers....a ring or no ring doesn't make or break that.

if it wasn't meant to be, then it just wasn't. You play to your situation. Ringless players are better than some who are Lord of the rings.

I actually respect those guys more, for not ditching and joining forces with other people to chase a ring.


in essence, tho...1 ring is just 1 ring. Just that, welcome to Jason Kidd, Dirk's club.
Click to expand...

Just my opinion. The Decision was whack, but sometimes the whole root of the decision itself gets lost in the translation. Dude was a free agent, he had a choice. No offense to Animal Thug (and he may have a different opinion on this one), but dude did try to win one with the Cavs for 8 years. Again it was 8 years of service. He made the Cavs relevant again. He felt he cannot win so he moved on. Again, the way he handled the decision was tasteless, but the reason for leaving... not so much.

And if Lebron never left the Cavs and never on a ring, do you think people would associate him with other "ringless" greats like Barkley, Malone, etc? I don't think so. He'd be the most ridiculed one out of all of them. It was always a no win situation from him (legacy wise) since the day SI anointed him the Chosen One.
 
donmega, I never once complained the 7 years he was here. The ridiculed feelings towards him stems from the Decision, and his selfishness to actually call it Decision - as if he wasn't aware of what the city went through with 'The Drive', 'The Fumble', The Shot', 'The Departure' (Cleveland Browns).

It was like he knew he was adding insult to injury, AND HE KNEW THAT.

Lol funny; because by coming back in this thread and responding and bringing up old feelings towards him - I cant help but feel betrayed and hurt from this dude man. You guys wouldn't understand though.

**** LBJ. In my mind, I know what he truly means to the game :wink:
 
I think it's this generation, that makes it seem like at the end of the day "If you don't have a ring, you a bum" and "If you don't wind a ring, you suck"

It's more than that.

That type of mentality is why you have dudes at the end of their career, on their way out, ring chasing. Trying to get any open roster on any contender, latching onto anything that has access to NBA finals just to get jewelry on their finger. 
mean.gif


it worked for Gary Payton....

but not Karl Malone....

I dislike players that latch on to any and everything, chase that ring, want to join up with a contender just to say "YES, I DID, I FINALLY GOT IT. MY RING"

come on where is the self respect? integrity?

Shout out to Stockton and Miller. 
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Animal Thug said:
donmega, I never once complained the 7 years he was here. The ridiculed feelings towards him stems from the Decision, and his selfishness to actually call it Decision - as if he wasn't aware of what the city went through with 'The Drive', 'The Fumble', The Shot', 'The Departure' (Cleveland Browns).

It was like he knew he was adding insult to injury, AND HE KNEW THAT.

Lol funny; because by coming back in this thread and responding and bringing up old feelings towards him - I cant help but feel betrayed and hurt from this dude man. You guys wouldn't understand though.

**** LBJ. In my mind, I know what he truly means to the game :wink:
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My point exactly. I'm not a hometown guy so I won't really know how it felt like. The Decision was whack though, that I agree on.
 
do work son said:
wasn't aware championships were an individual award. even kobe couldn't lead a team of bums to success in the post shaq and pre gasol lakers era. lebron took scrubs to the finals. championships are not a straight indication of an individual.
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Oh, they're not an individual award.

But you can't a player has one if they don't, and if a player does have one, then he does.

It really is that simple. People try to make it something different.

"So you're saying it's an individual award?"

Nope.

Just saying he has one. The WHOLE reason we watch sports is for the championships, and he has one.

He doesn't NOT have one.

He has one. By himself? Nope, it's still a team sport. But other great players were on great teams they never won championships. He WAS on a team that won a championship.
 
Dan Gilbert ‏@cavsdan 5m
Cleveland Cavaliers young talent makes our future very bright. Clearly, LeBron's is as well. Time for everyone to focus on the road ahead.


Dan with the message for Cavs fans to move on
 
Animal Thug...

In all honesty, if when LBJ opts out in '14 would you welcome him back or would the pain of Summer 2010 be too much to ignore? Srs question.
 
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MJ was 28 when we won his first ring . Lebron was 27 . The only thing he has to worry about is OKC because I see them being the only competition for the Heat . Also people forget tht Chicago was the favorite before DRoshe got hurt so depending on how he comes back they will be the Heats major obstacle in the East . People could argue spurs but Tim and Ginolbili (sp) don't have much left in the tank and after they're gone Spurs will have to rebuild . I highly doubt tht the Heat will be able 3peat because talent is way better than wat is was back in MJs day . DO NOT GET ME WRONG . There was plenty of talent but js a tad more is out now than then .

Lebron isn't and won't be a disappointment . He has time left to become better and win more champion ships .
 
travis said:
MJ was 28 when we won his first ring . Lebron was 27 .
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Why do people always say this as if its an apples to apples comparison? :lol: MJ started at 21. Bron at 18.

If you're gonna compare Bron's accomplishments/stats at a certain age to another player, that player should be another guy who came in from HS too.

I'm not even trying to defend MJ here. Apples to oranges comparisons just annoy me :lol: . Like when people throw in the Robert Horry argument when discussing ring counts for superstars.
 
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Antidope said:
This may or may not be related, but I always end up thinking about how X player was deemed the next Y player, then soon forgotten because they clearly weren't that good, but in LeBrons case that never happens because he's clearly that good.

In regard to the OP his legacy already has a ceiling on it because of the two finals losses. He could end up wining 10 and average a triple double for his career or even something crazier, but "MJ never lost in the finals" would be the end all be all.
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I don't think inals loses have that much impact on legacy

Kobe has 2 finals losses also
Magic Johnson has 4 finals losses
Shaq has 3 finals losses
Larry Bird has 2 finals losses
Jerry West has 8 finals losses!

All these guys mentioned are considered all time greats
 
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JumpmanPro97 said:
I don't think inals loses have that much impact on legacy

Kobe has 2 finals losses also
Magic Johnson has 4 finals losses
Shaq has 3 finals losses
Larry Bird has 2 finals losses
Jerry West has 8 finals losses!

All these guys mentioned are considered all time greats
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it doesnt.

the more finals appearances the better.

you play the game to get to the finals and win the championship

in a team game there is no telling what can happen.
 
ill steelo said:
Why do people always say this as if its an apples to apples comparison? :lol: MJ started at 21. Bron at 18.

If you're gonna compare Bron's accomplishments/stats at a certain age to another player, that player should be another guy who came in from HS too.

I'm not even trying to defend MJ here. Apples to oranges comparisons just annoy me :lol: . Like when people throw in the Robert Horry argument when discussing ring counts for superstars.
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I don't think he was trying to say Lebron is better than MJ cause he got it at a younger age. He's saying Lebron has a lot more basketball left to get 6 like MJ. Or 7 or 8. Correct me if I'm wrong I don't like putting words in people's mouths.
 
JumpmanPro97 said:
I don't think inals loses have that much impact on legacy

Kobe has 2 finals losses also
Magic Johnson has 4 finals losses
Shaq has 3 finals losses
Larry Bird has 2 finals losses
Jerry West has 8 finals losses!

All these guys mentioned are considered all time greats
Click to expand...

Shaq has two finals losses not three.

But I get your point, it's still an accomplishment to get to the finals.

But it is still extremely impressive that Jordan never lost in the finals. It's even more impressive that he took two years off, came back at 32-33 years old and then three-peated again. Makes you wonder if the Bulls could have won 8 straight during the time he was shagging fly balls :x

That's something I think will haunt MJ forever. He already stated not coming back in 1999 still haunts him, but the front office Bulls, Phil Jackson, and the players were at odds.
 
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I am interested in seeing how Lebron's game changes/adapts/evolves as his athleticism decreases. 

I personally don't think Lebron has an above average skill set. My question is will his skills improve enough and will he be able to change his game to the point where he will still be a top 5 player after losing a step in his early to mid 30's a la Jordan or Kobe for example... or will his skills remain the same leading him to becoming a better version of the old Vince Carter late in his career, but not a top 5 player?

That IMO is a MAJOR factor in the Lebron as the GOAT argument. If he can successfully make that transition while winning titles and racking up the hardware, he is going to make a great case as the best that has ever done it. 
 
I don't like LeBron but I respect his game. Son will go down as one of the best, probably top 5. He'll never be MJ or Kobe because he doesn't like the pressure or have that killer instinct. He's a mix of Kobe (talent wise) and Dwight (clown and playful).
 
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