NFL Quarterbacks Discussion thread: 2013 Edition

[100027]

true...but look at the talent they're throwing the ball to.

and you're also talking about elite level QBs...a level which neither luck or RW are at yet.

Hey no doubt... It's not cut and dry. I just don't agree with the way CP makes his argument, more than I disagree with it's premise.

 

[CP1708]

Yeah, I love how Wilson makes Lynch break all those tackles.

He makes Lynch.

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Rodgers been 15-1, 11-5 and 6-2 with bad defenses in the regular season but was 1 and done both times in the playoffs...

Defense was good-very good in 2010 and won the chip.

 

[CP1708]

The way I make my argument?

Ok, how would you like me to argue then?

 

[100027]

The way I make my argument?

Ok, how would you like me to argue then?

I dunno man, maybe you should search for some better evidence or stronger connections to help you make your point. I'm sure they're out there.

("" coming in response, along with comment about Luck being a great college prospect)

 

[lb510]

Yeah, I love how Wilson makes Lynch break all those tackles.

He makes Lynch.

Its not like we was running hard on a bad Bills team for 4 seasons.

 

[100027]

Actually if you can find an outside source that agrees with you from this year and makes a strong case, I would absolutely appreciate it (sincerely).

 

[CP1708]

Step back Seattle fans and use my team.

Give Dan Marino Lynch and your defense. No more 3 man fronts with 5 corners, etc. Make teams put 7 in the box against Dan.

How does he do?

That man played EVERY GAME with the opposing defense knowing EVERY play was a pass.

What if they didn't?

What if his defense scored their own touchdowns? Or got the ball at the 50 twice a game.

Think his numbers dip? Course they do. But what would his success have been? How much more dangerous would he become?

Are you going to sell me that it would have no impact on his career?

 

[100027]

Yes the team would be better. But don't you think Marino's crazy stats might have been reduced if he had those options? That's just one devil's advocate option... We really don't know.

This is just an even wilder hypothetical scenario to me. I guess you gotta draw the clear connection for me.

 

[certifiedsw]

Bringing Dan Marino into this now? LOLOL just stop.

 

[100027]

I guess I understand where you're coming from. I just don't see the ease with which you can claim how Luck would perform on a Seattle and vice versa. To me it's far from certain. So that's where we are not going to agree.

Discussion over for me.7

 

[Chester McFloppy]

and you're also talking about elite level QBs...a level which neither luck or RW are at yet.

QFT. Brees, Rodgers, Peyton and Brady are HoFers... it's unfair to use them as a measuring stick at this point.

The Seahawks can win games in which the team puts up 14 points or less, they did it twice this season. If Luck doesn't put up 21+, the Colts lose. They simply don't have the playmakers on defense that Seattle does.

Here's a comparison that will make some heads explode: does anyone else see the similarities between the Seahawks and the Steelers?

Steelers go 6-10, have the 11th overall defense, and draft Ben Roethlisberger. Go 15-1 and 11-5 the next two seasons.
Seahawks go 7-9, have the 9th overall defense, and draft Russell Wilson. Go 11-5 and 13-3 the next two seasons.

 

[certifiedsw]

In the end, this whole argument is pointless because no one knows how either player would perform on either team.

No more back and forth from me -- agree to disagree.

 

[100027]

I hope they're the same

 

[CP1708]

Yes the team would be better. But don't you think Marino's crazy stats might have been reduced if he had those options? That's just one devil's advocate option... We really don't know.

This is just an even wilder hypothetical scenario to me. I guess you gotta draw the clear connection for me.

I said, of course they do.

The comparison is "similar". Luck has no defense to fall back on, and sadly his run game is pathetic.

The games that they had had a running game, he's able to use play action (something Russ can do every series)

He's now throwing to an UDFA, a collegiate walk on named Whalen (?)

You saw last week how his defense got murdered by Alex Smith with NO Jamal Charles which meant the Chiefs D knew every play would be a pass, which cost him 3 picks, yet he still found a way.

You played Indy. Russ faced that crappy Indy D, while Luck faced your tough defense. He found a way.

He's not a Peyton "numbers" guy, he just carries his team to W after W, with the least amount of support I've seen.

You guys just refuse to see that.

 

[100027]

I think we're just coming from different perspectives. The Luck arguments are too airy and "intangible" for me.

Last year I thought he had the third best season clearly /shrug.

Before you get crazy, I obviously believe he will be a great player and likely HOFer.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

It's not airy or intangible, though. I'm providing numbers and statistics that prove how much better of a TEAM the Seahawks are than the Colts. Is there really anyone in the world who believes the Colts, as a whole, are even remotely on the same level as the Hawks? That's not a knock on the Hawks or Russ, because as we've seen with Andy Dalton and Matt Schaub, you still need a good QB to win a game when it matters. Russ has shown that ability.

Tom Brady had his worst statistical year since the mid 00's and I'd still take him above damn near every QB in the league. There's a lot more that goes into football than box scores. If it were simply QB-who-throws-most-yards-and-TDs, than Matt Stafford and the Lions would be in the Super Bowl.

 

[100027]

You posted that the Seahawks have a better defense than the Colts. Who exactly was arguing with that?

I'm not just talking about comparing box scores either. When the arguments about Andrew Luck become so emotional they accentuate the positive and mask the negative. For example, his tremendous second half performance on Sunday masking his awful 3 picks. Or, his huge wins over major contenders this season vs. his bad losses to bad teams. His great games over re bad games he had when Wayne went down.

I've seen the guy throw a pick 6 from his knees. At this point in his career he does have a ball security issue.

 

[100027]

...would never deny it. Great player. Not Peyton yet, but great.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

I've seen the guy throw a pick 6 from his knees. At this point in his career he does have a ball security issue.

He threw 23 TDs to 9 ints in the regular season. Add in the playoff game, 27 TDs to 12 ints. Only lost 2 fumbles all season. Up until the KC game, the only other game in which he had multiple turnovers was against St. Louis. For comparison, Russ had three multiple TO games this season.

Last year he was a turnover machine and there's no disputing that. This year? He's starting to get it. Throwing less and his percentages are up across the board. Playing dat efficiency football.

Kid is still 24 and makes mistakes -- it happens. Still, it took Peyton 6 years to finally get his turnovers under control.

 

[100027]

Nice, yeah I agree about his level at his age.

 

[CP1708]

I have a question for the Seahawk fans.

You clearly have Nick Foles above Russell, right?

Better QB rating, more TD's, fewer INT's, better completion percentage, so, Foles is better than Wilson, right now, right?

 

[dmxfury]

C'mon Chester I've made that Steeler reference multiple times

 

[100027]

I have a question for the Seahawk fans.

You clearly have Nick Foles above Russell, right?

Better QB rating, more TD's, fewer INT's, better completion percentage, so, Foles is better than Wilson, right now, right?

You're creating a straw man, but I don't think you can deny how great Foles' season was. If he can keep up that pace he'll be a serious MVP candidate very soon. I don't think he can keep it up personally, but we'll see.

 

[100027]

Also unlike you, I never stated anyone was better than anyone else. You might have missed that in your imaginary argument with "Seahawk fan X" or whoever it is you are setting yourself against.