Originally Posted by dland24
Like you CP, I really don't want to get into an in-depth argument. Basically what it really comes down to, is what you value more when you are trying to determine if player A is better than player B. Do you value personal stats, personal awards and accolades, or do you value team success.
When discussing individual players, I value individual stats, awards and accolades over team success. You value team success. You aren't wrong. Nor am I. Just a difference of opinion.
I'm not valuing team success at all tho. Just because I use wins, or SB's, etc, that doesn't mean those are what make A v B right or wrong.
It's a complete picture of things.
Brady with less talent, still great numbers, with wins.
Manning with more talent, great numbers, less wins.
Brady with more talent, great numbers, less wins
Manning with less talent, great numbers, more wins.
I'm not adjusting for wins only, I'm looking at the talent surrounding.
Peyton played the same system his whole life. 4 year college starter, Day 1 starter in the NFL, Marvin, Edge, Wayne, Clark for almost a full decade. A full on system that Peyton just sat around and thrived in.
Tom, didn't start 4 years in college, didn't start day one in the NFL, and his system has changed MULTIPLE times.
Look man, he played a Super Bowl with Troy Brown and some other scrubs.
He played in a Super Bowl with Randy Moss and Wes Welker
He played in a Super Bowl with Gronk and Leatherface.
They have COMPLETELY revamped the offense around Brady multiple times. He's won every, single, way. He gets numbers one way or another. He throws short. He throws deep. He hits the slot. He hits the seam. He uses his running backs, little white guys, whatever. Danny Woodhead looks good. Transformed Welker's career. Revitalized Randy's. Made the 2 TE look the biggest vogue look in the new NFL.
He's adapted to EVERY detail throw his way.
Peyton goes to Denver, they install HIS offense.
Peyton has played ONE offense since college. He's great at it, he's the computer chip hub of it. But that's it.
Brady has played slow it down, grind it out, kill the clock, and he's played no huddle, 23 consecutive pass plays go go go go go offense.
One was born a QB, QB dad, QB brother, flat out QB, yet only runs a single system.
The other was a joke of a draft pick, looked like a school teacher in shorts at the combine, and has played the position various different ways, and succeeded in them all.
Not about wins and losses man. Brady has done more with less than Peyton has. Give Brady a decade of Marvin, Edge, Wayne, Clark and I shudder to think what he would do. Down right scary.