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NFL Quarterbacks Discussion thread: 2013 Edition
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by 651akathepaul,
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Cute. Don't get mad because I have leverage on the topic and you don't. So, because I got out of my way to make a list on something I'm passionate about and have lots of experience on, you'll have to revert to saying silly and childish things like getting cut from JV, just to sound like the bigger man?
You're a fool. Gimme your address.. Next time I'm in your area we're strapping up the pads and this QB is gonna break the **** outta your spirit and your ribs.
This is fun.
Edit: Hold up...I'm gonna smoke a black real quick and get some beer. Get your popcorn DMX.
He's serious too..
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He didn't just state an opinion, he more so stated a fact. As pointed out in the statement/direct quote below. Our local arm chair analyst provided us with that statement but with no real support, no real evidence, no real credentials. Reason being is, well because...........he's NOT real. He's FRAUD, a PHONY, and a FAKE, and I'm looking at him and treating him as such from this point out.
Well...Colin will take a stepback
You ain't doing a DAM thing just like your team, and that's now and forever. Please be sure to tell me the next time your around my way. This clown wants to meet up to play tackle football
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I am!
Football gets my juices going, bros.
And NTer23. Take a peek at my predictions for last year's Q's. It was bout 50/50, but the half that was right was spot on. I challenge you to bat .500 when predicting 32 damn quarterbacks.
Football gets my juices going, bros.
And NTer23. Take a peek at my predictions for last year's Q's. It was bout 50/50, but the half that was right was spot on. I challenge you to bat .500 when predicting 32 damn quarterbacks.
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He didn't just state an opinion, he more so stated a fact. As pointed out in the statement/direct quote below. Our local arm chair analyst provided us with that statement but with no real support, no real evidence, no real credentials. Reason being is, well because...........he's NOT real. He's FRAUD, a PHONY, and a FAKE, and I'm looking at him and treating him as such from this point out.
Well...Colin
will
take a stepback
You ain't doing a DAM thing just like your team, and that's now and forever. Please be sure to tell me the next time your around my way. This clown wants to meet up to play tackle football
.
I sure do.
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I'm just curious as to how Kaep is going to take a step back but Russell Wilson is the 6th best QB in the league based on how he finished the season.
I need to know what leverage this dude has as well
I need to know what leverage this dude has as well
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Don't bother waiting on a coherent response from him on this. The black and mild's that he smokes are laced with PCP..........and he knows it.
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jpzx
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This thread took flight.
I don't think Paul meant anything by "taking a step back". Assuming he's going off of STRICTLY this year -- with a WR group that is injury riddled, the history of Super Bowl losers having a tendency to drop off, and the sky high expectations after such a surprising 2012 campaign.
Doesn't hurt Kaepernick's career in the slightest, but this year might be a bit of a swoon with all of these lofty expectations.
If he does even better than last year, well... that's a pretty good indicator to me of what type of QB this guy can be.
I don't think Paul meant anything by "taking a step back". Assuming he's going off of STRICTLY this year -- with a WR group that is injury riddled, the history of Super Bowl losers having a tendency to drop off, and the sky high expectations after such a surprising 2012 campaign.
Doesn't hurt Kaepernick's career in the slightest, but this year might be a bit of a swoon with all of these lofty expectations.
If he does even better than last year, well... that's a pretty good indicator to me of what type of QB this guy can be.
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Exactly, but stay tuned here for second...
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Half the problem, sneakerpro, is that your comparing to begin with. I didn't put them in brackets to decide my rankings.
What must I reiterate about Wilson that has people confused? There is nothing about his makeup that would make you think he can't be a top tier QB in the NFL. I went over this many many times.
Generally, when college quarterbacks come into the NFL, they come from two distinct backgrounds. Now, I’m aware the variations to this rule, but if you dumb it down, there’s two basic principles.
You have your prototypical offenses and you have your schools where they have the luxury of quarterbacks who are gifted with their feet. A lot of the times, either by new implementation based on the skillset, or by recruiting, they set an offense in place where the Q gets to use that dynamic skillset. Cam Newton is a great example of this.
Colin played college ball at Nevada. Nevada, if you know your stuff, is the birthplace of the pistol offense. By no means is it a gimmick offense. However, it is predicated on the variation of the zone read. The zone read is implemented with those exact quarterbacks in mind. If you were following along, then it’s the Cam’s and RGIII’s of the world. Now, this doesn’t mean that guys like Ryan Tannehill don’t run the read option. It’s just not as lethal unless your QB can run….So what does that tell us?
Kaepernick led all of college in rushing yards for a quarterback. Kudos. Unfortunately, there is a give and take. You have your Russell Wilson and Andrew Lucks of the world who are running the prototypical offenses (aka NFL systems that have been around for awhile). Film study, practices and execution are all based on different aspects of the defense and their schematics with the two offenses. Meaning you’re looking at different things. Q’s like Russell and Luck were developing the part of their game that is more effective in the NFL. That’s with the test of time and not at my whim.
On the other end of the spectrum you have those that are gifted athletically even well beyond that of Wilson and Luck. Enter Cam, RGIII and Kaepernick. The emphasis of their film studies in college are different than that of the prototype. Improvisation is also more encouraged. There’s less “throw it away” and more “make it happen.” That involves their legs. Don’t lose me..Follow along…
Enter the NFL. There has yet to be one quarterback. NOT ONE, who has come into the NFL with this new breed of offense or skillset who has sustained it without adjustment -- Michael Vick. Do any of you remember when he came out of VTech? How about the NFC CHampioship game in 2002? Forget the two-year absence for a second…He had this league by the balls and he was fresh outta college for the most part. Then after a few years and his mind started to get pressed and his old “tricks” didn’t yield the same results. He had to adjust. He never really could. He did for one year that I rmember (3 years ago with Philly), but reverted back to his old self soon after. Point being, the stats looked nice but it was flash in the pan.
These guys can be more or less ahead of the game than Vick was, but one thing is certain. The mental dexterity is the #1 most important aspect of playing quarterback in the NFL. Both Kaepernic and RGIII have yet to be pushed to that threshold. Could they finally be an exception to the rule? Yes! However, I’ll damned stupid if I base my opinion around one year successes because look at what happened to Cam. Look at the posts on NT his first year and then the subsequent years. See the difference? Well, look even further into what you can’t see on the forefront. Check the defenses adjusting to shutting down that 3rd and 4th throwing option that the Mannings and Bradys thrive off of. Eh, when all else fails run, right? Well, that’s what they were taught in college and it worked out of the gates in the NFL, but add that adjustment and “oh, ****.”
Colin is VERY athletic. His potential is ASTRONOMICAL. However, what makes him so special that he doesn’t have to adhere to learning how to progress in this league? He may as well have been a rookie last year because even second year Q’s who aren’t starters don’t get the time to spend on check-with-me’s at the line or are the emphasis of their particular skillset in film study (they watch same film and hear the coach-speak, but Colin was probably rolling his eyes at plays in film that Alex couldn’t make. That doesn’t necessarily help Colin). I love Colin as a future prospect. Prospect and potential are dirty words in my book though. You have to continue to develop. Now, back to the reading progression…Since Colin’s ability allows him to improvise without hitches and pull off 60 yard runs, who needs to look for that 3rd or 4th receiving option? Hell, I wouldn’t…and never did. And here I sit….
What Kaep needs to do consistently is sit…Sit in that pocket and UNDERSTAND how to read the defense from what he’s gathered in film and make certain that he knows exactly where Kassim Osgood is supposed to be and going to be if all else fails. Why Osgood? Because he’s their 4th or 5th receiver. They need to have just as good a rapport as Kaep and Boldin. With Crab going down, it makes it all the more imperative that everyone is on the same page. Next man up, right?
Sure, he’s proved in a few weeks of regular season football that he has the goods, but there’s 31 other paid professional HC’s and even more coordinators who have seen what I spoke about and know the history and will devise certain schemes to give Colin new looks. Will it always work? Hell no. Not against an athlete the class of Colin. Will it make his 2013 season tougher? You damn right. And even if he does go off again this year, will he sustain it? I or we don’t have enough information to analyze that, but Vick made the NFCCG in his 2nd full season as a starter….Then look. Obviously, it’s for comparative purposes because we can settle down on the nuances that make each different, but again, why is Colin this great exception to the rule? Top 10 in his future? Top 5? Maybe. Can he? For damn sure. This year? Nah. Russell is ahead of him from a pure QB standpoint. Again…Not hating. This is STRICTLY my analysis and opinion, so feathers don’t need to be ruffled because in 3 years if I’m wrong…I”ll have no qualms admitting it. For sure. Thanks Duece and NT’er23 for allowing me to further my knowledge on the subject. That’s for real. Sorry for any typos or weird sentences. This was straight off the dome.
What must I reiterate about Wilson that has people confused? There is nothing about his makeup that would make you think he can't be a top tier QB in the NFL. I went over this many many times.
Generally, when college quarterbacks come into the NFL, they come from two distinct backgrounds. Now, I’m aware the variations to this rule, but if you dumb it down, there’s two basic principles.
You have your prototypical offenses and you have your schools where they have the luxury of quarterbacks who are gifted with their feet. A lot of the times, either by new implementation based on the skillset, or by recruiting, they set an offense in place where the Q gets to use that dynamic skillset. Cam Newton is a great example of this.
Colin played college ball at Nevada. Nevada, if you know your stuff, is the birthplace of the pistol offense. By no means is it a gimmick offense. However, it is predicated on the variation of the zone read. The zone read is implemented with those exact quarterbacks in mind. If you were following along, then it’s the Cam’s and RGIII’s of the world. Now, this doesn’t mean that guys like Ryan Tannehill don’t run the read option. It’s just not as lethal unless your QB can run….So what does that tell us?
Kaepernick led all of college in rushing yards for a quarterback. Kudos. Unfortunately, there is a give and take. You have your Russell Wilson and Andrew Lucks of the world who are running the prototypical offenses (aka NFL systems that have been around for awhile). Film study, practices and execution are all based on different aspects of the defense and their schematics with the two offenses. Meaning you’re looking at different things. Q’s like Russell and Luck were developing the part of their game that is more effective in the NFL. That’s with the test of time and not at my whim.
On the other end of the spectrum you have those that are gifted athletically even well beyond that of Wilson and Luck. Enter Cam, RGIII and Kaepernick. The emphasis of their film studies in college are different than that of the prototype. Improvisation is also more encouraged. There’s less “throw it away” and more “make it happen.” That involves their legs. Don’t lose me..Follow along…
Enter the NFL. There has yet to be one quarterback. NOT ONE, who has come into the NFL with this new breed of offense or skillset who has sustained it without adjustment -- Michael Vick. Do any of you remember when he came out of VTech? How about the NFC CHampioship game in 2002? Forget the two-year absence for a second…He had this league by the balls and he was fresh outta college for the most part. Then after a few years and his mind started to get pressed and his old “tricks” didn’t yield the same results. He had to adjust. He never really could. He did for one year that I rmember (3 years ago with Philly), but reverted back to his old self soon after. Point being, the stats looked nice but it was flash in the pan.
These guys can be more or less ahead of the game than Vick was, but one thing is certain. The mental dexterity is the #1 most important aspect of playing quarterback in the NFL. Both Kaepernic and RGIII have yet to be pushed to that threshold. Could they finally be an exception to the rule? Yes! However, I’ll damned stupid if I base my opinion around one year successes because look at what happened to Cam. Look at the posts on NT his first year and then the subsequent years. See the difference? Well, look even further into what you can’t see on the forefront. Check the defenses adjusting to shutting down that 3rd and 4th throwing option that the Mannings and Bradys thrive off of. Eh, when all else fails run, right? Well, that’s what they were taught in college and it worked out of the gates in the NFL, but add that adjustment and “oh, ****.”
Colin is VERY athletic. His potential is ASTRONOMICAL. However, what makes him so special that he doesn’t have to adhere to learning how to progress in this league? He may as well have been a rookie last year because even second year Q’s who aren’t starters don’t get the time to spend on check-with-me’s at the line or are the emphasis of their particular skillset in film study (they watch same film and hear the coach-speak, but Colin was probably rolling his eyes at plays in film that Alex couldn’t make. That doesn’t necessarily help Colin). I love Colin as a future prospect. Prospect and potential are dirty words in my book though. You have to continue to develop. Now, back to the reading progression…Since Colin’s ability allows him to improvise without hitches and pull off 60 yard runs, who needs to look for that 3rd or 4th receiving option? Hell, I wouldn’t…and never did. And here I sit….
What Kaep needs to do consistently is sit…Sit in that pocket and UNDERSTAND how to read the defense from what he’s gathered in film and make certain that he knows exactly where Kassim Osgood is supposed to be and going to be if all else fails. Why Osgood? Because he’s their 4th or 5th receiver. They need to have just as good a rapport as Kaep and Boldin. With Crab going down, it makes it all the more imperative that everyone is on the same page. Next man up, right?
Sure, he’s proved in a few weeks of regular season football that he has the goods, but there’s 31 other paid professional HC’s and even more coordinators who have seen what I spoke about and know the history and will devise certain schemes to give Colin new looks. Will it always work? Hell no. Not against an athlete the class of Colin. Will it make his 2013 season tougher? You damn right. And even if he does go off again this year, will he sustain it? I or we don’t have enough information to analyze that, but Vick made the NFCCG in his 2nd full season as a starter….Then look. Obviously, it’s for comparative purposes because we can settle down on the nuances that make each different, but again, why is Colin this great exception to the rule? Top 10 in his future? Top 5? Maybe. Can he? For damn sure. This year? Nah. Russell is ahead of him from a pure QB standpoint. Again…Not hating. This is STRICTLY my analysis and opinion, so feathers don’t need to be ruffled because in 3 years if I’m wrong…I”ll have no qualms admitting it. For sure. Thanks Duece and NT’er23 for allowing me to further my knowledge on the subject. That’s for real. Sorry for any typos or weird sentences. This was straight off the dome.
Good luck reading that.
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So why did Wilson's finish correlate with Seattle running more read-option, pistol like plays?
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They always gave the read-option look. Russell just didn't run nearly as much as he did early on. He (and Luck) developed the hard part first. Teams didn't see Russell running and Pete is no fool. They broke it out at the right time. At that point there was no answer. Russell had them beat either way. He could sit (and does) all damn day, but he sees the daylight, he knows he has that now too and the defenses weren't as focused on it. The only reason why Seattle lost that game at the end was because Matt Ryan and the Falcons won it. Russell Wilson wasn't on the field do anything about that.
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It's why it isn't a gimmick. Just a new look. It's so much more effective when the Q's have that first piece though.
jpzx
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Yeah, that set is prone to injuries, but that's the risk you take and you hope everything goes right & everyone stays injury free. Too often that doesn't happen.
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It's why the longevity of it is always in question. It's also why I believe mental acuity is absolutely crucial in the NFL, because after a certain point, if it's not developed, you have nowhere to turn and you're labeled as that career potential guy (Vick).
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You didn't shed any light or drop any knowledge of anything all of us didn't already know. You babbled a lot to make yourself sound smart, when all you had to say was "Kaepernick needs to be learn to be a pocket passer".
Here you go bud.
Link
In the playoffs when it mattered, when defenses took away his running, he played some of his best football throwing from inside the pocket.
Here you go bud.
Link
In the playoffs when it mattered, when defenses took away his running, he played some of his best football throwing from inside the pocket.
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Sound smart? I gave you more than what any pencil pusher will chalk up. You're just a stubborn *** hater who has no clue. If I asked you to give your full opinion you'd throw 'uhhh' in between all your words and struggle to articulate what a damn 3-technique is. Get outta here.
The ONLY time you pipe up from sniffing the collective pube-laced jock strap of the 49ers is when someone comes around and it goes against the Niners in any way. I said positive things about Kaep and gave a completely legitimate analysis and you wanna go "google.com/Kaepernickstatsthatproveshesgood"
I gave you more than what any pencil pusher will chalk up. You're just a stubborn *** hater who has no clue. If I asked you to give your full opinion you'd throw 'uhhh' in between all your words and struggle to articulate what a damn 3-technique is. Get outta here. The ONLY time you pipe up from sniffing the collective pube-laced jock strap of the 49ers is when someone comes around and it goes against the Niners in any way. I said positive things about Kaep and gave a completely legitimate analysis and you wanna go "google.com/Kaepernickstatsthatproveshesgood"
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gmsboy1
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You're being super condescending right now. You keep hinting that you have credentials, so where/what level have you played or coached?
Serious question. It does seem like you just watch a ton of ESPN/NFLN and regurgitate.
FWIW, I stopped taking you serious after you said you were the same type of qb as Jay Cutler was and that if he didn't have change the way he behaved towards his teammates he would lose their confidence, trust, etc. (paraphrasing). I actually cringed reading that.
Serious question. It does seem like you just watch a ton of ESPN/NFLN and regurgitate.
FWIW, I stopped taking you serious after you said you were the same type of qb as Jay Cutler was and that if he didn't have change the way he behaved towards his teammates he would lose their confidence, trust, etc. (paraphrasing). I actually cringed reading that.
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Sound smart?
The ONLY time you pipe up from sniffing the collective pube-laced jock strap of the 49ers is when someone comes around and it goes against the Niners in any way. I said positive things about Kaep and gave a completely legitimate analysis and you wanna go "google.com/Kaepernickstatsthatproveshesgood"
Ahh great rebuttal! I show you stats, and you say gibberish.
Just because you type a lot, doesn't mean you're saying anything.
FTR, I'm not against you putting Kaepernick where he's at. What I don't like about your list is your clear bias for Wilson. 6th best QB in the league? Come on bro... Not only that plus, Tony Romo 7th and above Big Ben who's at 9? Luck before Kaep when Kaep led his team to the SB? Eli, a two time SB MVP at 12?
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That's fine. But how is Cutler doing anyway? I
I'm not on NT to have people put their undying trust in me. I don't even care that people may not value my opinion, but it doesn't change the facts that I'm very knowledgeable on the subject. You won't find what I say on ESPN because they don't go that deep (unless it's Dilfer), but mainly because I don't watch ESPN.
I'm just a regular dude who played college ball and has a regular job. However, it doesn't make me much less qualified if you look at the credentials of some of the guys in the NFL. Not to mention the GM's how HAVE played and are complete disasters. The problem is a lot of you want to take the negative approach and instead of looking at what's presented, you want to negate or degrade all of it because for one, you think it's ONLY a sneakerboard and two that anyone who claims to be qualified as such should have a position that equates to the level of acumen they spew. And that's the wrong approach.
I can continue with diatribes of qualifications all you want, but look at everything I've posted. I mean really dig. When it comes to Q's, I've hardly ever been wrong in the long haul. I remember only once wavering on my opinion and that was when it was about Mark Sanchez. I was defiant that he was bum, but low and behold his rookie season he's in the AFCCG. I doubted myself but in the long run I was right. And for the most part I have been ever since. YOu can nitpick and find select times where I was wrong, but in the long haul and overall...Not so much.
P.S. - THe reason I don't bring my credentials to the table is because everything is met with judgement and derogatory comments. I could say that I was the starting quarterback of LSU or a backup at Division II school. I could be an NAIA All-American or a guy who never made it out of JC. What would it REALLY matter?
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+1
Dude types a lot and because of that we are supposed to assume he knows what he's talking about.
Just state that this stuff is your opinion and stop getting butthurt when people disagree.
I'm not an analysis by any stretch of the imagination but even a cursory look over your list shows inconsistency and just doesn't make sense.
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Sound smart?
The ONLY time you pipe up from sniffing the collective pube-laced jock strap of the 49ers is when someone comes around and it goes against the Niners in any way. I said positive things about Kaep and gave a completely legitimate analysis and you wanna go "google.com/Kaepernickstatsthatproveshesgood"
Ahh great rebuttal! I show you stats, and you say gibberish.
Just because you type a lot, doesn't mean you're saying anything.
FTR, I'm not against you putting Kaepernick where he's at. What I don't like about your list is your clear bias for Wilson. 6th best QB in the league? Come on bro... Not only that plus, Tony Romo 7th and above Big Ben who's at 9? Luck before Kaep when Kaep led his team to the SB? Eli, a two time SB MVP at 12?
QB rankings. NOT ranking the success of teams who happened to have so and so as a quarterback. It's one of the most common fallacies in all of football. I don't slight Ben or Eli for their ability to win when it matters and I've said so, but the depth of their success is so much more than their right arms.
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Have a discussion like men but yet you're so upset you're throwing insults left and right. Obviously you're upset, just go smoke some more black and milds, have a few more beers, then come back when you've cooled off.
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