NFL Quarterbacks Discussion thread: 2013 Edition

I'll probably regret this...

But out of curiosity, who is in your top 10?

Me? Eh, hmm.. First, I think im supposed to be slightly offended at you probably regretting the question. Is it due to my yearly biased, even though its the optimism in me, viewpoint of the Packers? Or because I was labeled as the one who said Jennings was top 3 even though it was a Pitt fan? I'm not oblivious to everything else going on in the NFL. I just happen to be very confident this year will finally be Jermichael Finleys year 8)

To answer your question I always saw it a little bit pointless cause after the first 4 or 5 its a cluster **** of inconsistency. But if i had to pick my top 10, going by who I want on my team in order to win it all, headed into the 2013 season.

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Manning
4. Brees
5. Big Ben
6. Eli
7. Ryan
8. Luck
9. RGIII
10. Wilson

Wont know how well Kap is figured out until after this year. He was handed 6 wins and provided a new look to the team mid-season which was a huge advantage. I said who I want on my team to win for a reason. Stats aside Luck, RGIII, Wilson, and Kap have already showed me enough to think they'll give my team a better chance to win than Romo. Said it multiple times, if I were the GM of that team I would have cut Romo 3 years ago. Yet people are preparing themselves for the same song and dance in Dallas once again. I hope i dont need to explain why Flacco isnt in there (not sure if people do). Im willing to bet he throws 3 interceptions in the season opener.
 
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Yeah, see you think you have me pegged, only you don't. I'm fine if you want to say Brady was one play away from one less SB. Bothers me none.

The guy has been to 5 Super Bowls. Want to reduce it by 1? Go right ahead.

Still more SB wins than Peyton.
Still more appearances than Peyton.
Still a lesser roster of weapons than Peyton
Still more head to head wins vs Peyton
Still more playoff wins than Peyton
Still a better win % than Peyton


So by all means. If it means that much to you, pull the tuck rule game off his resume, cool by me.

I mean, the Giants won like 3 plays after the Tyree catch. The Raiders had an entire series still to finish the game, couldn't do it. Went to OT, still couldn't finish the game. But hey, one play. :lol: Almost the exact same scenario, but not close. :lol:

Team
team
Peytons number **** on toms
team
team
team

Peyton would have A MUCH better career in NE and his career is already better now. I wish i could just off the record hear BB say who he would rather have on his team. We all know who would be.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
^Pretty sure he meant All Time.

Well I hope not considering I only started comprehended what the hell was happening on the field starting around maybe the year 1997 and had enough insight to start making judgements around maybe 1999. I wasnt even old enough to remember Troy Aikman playing idk how I could give an accurate top 10 list without having any first hand knowledge of the Montanas, Marino's, and Elways (although I remember when I was little seeing him get the spinnaroonie touchdown against the Packers in the Superbowl)
 
Peyton Manning isn't considered as possibly the greatest of all time amongst his peers because of his numbers or MVP awards.

We can argue until we're all blue in the face, but there's so much subjectivity based on the variables that we all want to focus on, look past or don't even think about. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are two completely different quarterbacks. The reason why Manning is considered the best of all time is because of the command and understanding he has of everything involved in the dynamics of a play. He is the coach, OC, and the quarterback every single play. He devises his own audibles and calls his own plays at the line, which is why he stands there until .01 on the play clock because of the depth to which he goes when making sure everyone goes where he wants them to. He does not need a coach because he knows more about schematics than that coach. He's so prepared for what looks a defense gives him and has seen it all, so much so that he could be a defensive coordinator if he wanted to be.

Brady has some of these capabilites, but he's also paired with one of the better football minds of this era. Brady has worked Bill's system to perfection. To the likes that probably no one else can. It doesn't mean that Brady needs Bill to be great, rather, they just happened to have their career paths coincide. Essentially, they've taken the Brees/Payton dynamic to its pinnacle.

This isn't me staking my claim for Manning as the greatest of all-time, but it's shedding light on what people involved in football think on the matter. Brady, through experience, can do a lot of these things that Manning does. Manning is just a whole new extreme. The argument can carry from there as to what actual difference it makes if Manning sucks in the clutch and Brady doesn't or the comparison to Super Bowls, but Manning, on every Sunday, generally carries much more on his plate than Tom Brady. His preparation and football mind is second to none.

Sidenote - I have a friend who ran into a former player at his job (this job allowed them to talk for long durations) and when my friend disclosed he was a big football fan, they got to chatting. He asked him questions along the lines of what's being discussed in this thread. The former player said that Brady is a straight killer and unbelievable...He also said, BUT, Manning is on a whole other level.
 
Peyton Manning isn't considered as possibly the greatest of all time amongst his peers because of his numbers or MVP awards.

We can argue until we're all blue in the face, but there's so much subjectivity based on the variables that we all want to focus on, look past or don't even think about. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are two completely different quarterbacks. The reason why Manning is considered the best of all time is because of the command and understanding he has of everything involved in the dynamics of a play. He is the coach, OC, and the quarterback every single play. He devises his own audibles and calls his own plays at the line, which is why he stands there until .01 on the play clock because of the depth to which he goes when making sure everyone goes where he wants them to. He does not need a coach because he knows more about schematics than that coach. He's so prepared for what looks a defense gives him and has seen it all, so much so that he could be a defensive coordinator if he wanted to be.

Brady has some of these capabilites, but he's also paired with one of the better football minds of this era. Brady has worked Bill's system to perfection. To the likes that probably no one else can. It doesn't mean that Brady needs Bill to be great, rather, they just happened to have their career paths coincide. Essentially, they've taken the Brees/Payton dynamic to its pinnacle.

This isn't me staking my claim for Manning as the greatest of all-time, but it's shedding light on what people involved in football think on the matter. Brady, through experience, can do a lot of these things that Manning does. Manning is just a whole new extreme. The argument can carry from there as to what actual difference it makes if Manning sucks in the clutch and Brady doesn't or the comparison to Super Bowls, but Manning, on every Sunday, generally carries much more on his plate than Tom Brady. His preparation and football mind is second to none.

Sidenote - I have a friend who ran into a former player at his job (this job allowed them to talk for long durations) and when my friend disclosed he was a big football fan, they got to chatting. He asked him questions along the lines of what's being discussed in this thread. The former player said that Brady is a straight killer and unbelievable...He also said, BUT, Manning is on a whole other level.

This answered what i was about to take way too much time typing out.
 
Well put 651, but wasn't Bill a defensive guy? You don't find yourself feelin just a little bit dirty saying that Brady only teams with Bill's coaching mind?

Brady is VERY much like Peyton at this point in their career's in the way they do master the play calls at the LOS. Peyton is just a ton more animated about it.


I enjoy bantering on about it on here, and they are both worthy of discussing, but both are in the top 3-4-5-6 QB's of all time, so we're honestly splitting hairs. I've argued on Brady's side that it seems like I don't like Peyton, when in fact I like him very, very much. His fanbase, maybe not so much. :lol:


I look forward in a few years to mentioning Andrew in this same discussion with top 3-4-5-6, just sad that Barkley will not be a part of it. I thought he was going to be one of those types, but the USC jersey just ruined him like all the other ones. :smh:
 
This answered what i was about to take way too much time typing out.

no way :lol:
you've never even come close to anything that paul just said :lol:

and Paul, my only issue with your argument is the notion that BB is some offensive mastermind. that part doesn't fit imo. i'm not saying brady doesn't owe anything to belichick....but all great QBs have a great head coach to work with. if anything...BB realized that with Brady, he can plug in pretty much anyone at the other skill positions on offense and not have to worry about the offense. you're seeing it this year, when you can say peace out to 300+ receptions and not panic. of course, we'll see how that works out.

but back in 2006, if you look at the names that the Pats had on offense and realize they went to the freakin' AFC champ game...it says it all.
 
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I hear ya both. I can't claim to know the nuances of how BB developed an offense or if there's any special formula he uses, but to me, BB is just a superb coach who knows the game even if his label is being more a defensive mastermind.

I almost want to say its a Mike Leach approach to offense and spatial awareness. Also with the acronym of K.I.S.S. involved. It's really a simple scheme that uses the entire field to its advantage and lets Brady toss it to the spot that the defense is allowing him to throw. He gets rid of it quick and the tempo quick and reads decisive. That's obviously a dumbed down explanation, but it also gives some explanation why a few love to refer to Brady as a checkdown quarterback.

I need to add that the players Bill does draft and keep all fill one specific role or have specific skillsets and to both, they have to have a team first attitude. No your role and execute is a motto I can see and that plays a huge part with the cohesion you see from year to year with the Pats despite having millions of no names become successful in that organization.
 
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You guys know his name isnt Paul right? 
laugh.gif
 
 
You guys know his name isnt Paul right?  :lol:  

Dland, you know what's funny? when i was digging for CP's post on brady v manning earlier today...i saw you said the same thing back in 2011 :lol:

i figured the Paul in his name was for St. Paul, MN or something...but it's easier to call people by something in their SN. like we call him Paul or 651...or call dudes CP or Pro even though we might know their names.
 
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Brady is VERY much like Peyton at this point in their career's in the way they do master the play calls at the LOS. Peyton is just a ton more animated about it.

This is the main reason my Dad is annoyed with Manning and will choose Brady every single time. "You don't need to do all this **** and hop around. Brady just stands calm and delivers without all the bulls***."

:lol:


And I have no real connection to St. Paul, but used this as a screenname because I heard this line in a rap lyric from one of my dudes I played college with and rolled with it. I had no idea at the time I'd be the poster I am today and figured for a lurker, the name did not matter. I'm stuck with it now. :lol:
 
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I almost want to say its a Mike Leach approach to offense and spatial awareness. Also with the acronym of K.I.S.S. involved. It's really a simple scheme that uses the entire field to its advantage and lets Brady toss it to the spot that the defense is allowing him to throw. He gets rid of it quick and the tempo quick and reads decisive. That's obviously a dumbed down explanation, but it also gives some explanation why a few love to refer to Brady as a checkdown quarterback.

that's exactly what makes brady so effective and great tho. he doesn't need a guy with 4.3 speed or a 6'4" receiver that can just run fades all day. whether he has reche caldwell or randy moss...he wins. whether it's checkdowns for days to no name WRs or bombs to Moss...he wins. the guy can read a defense like no other and make due with what he has like no other. like a marino to a degree.

i am perfectly willing to concede that if you put a barrel 50 yards down the field, brady isn't going to hit the barrel as much as manning is. or brees even. but brady KNOWS he might not be able to hit that target, and that is what has made him into what he is today. he knows his limits and works within them. he knows the throws he can make, and he usually knows the ones he can't. peyton's raw talent might be on another level...but brady's mental aspect of the QB position is on another level. and that's why he's done what he's done, and why we're able to have this conversation.
 
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You guys know his name isnt Paul right? 
laugh.gif
Dland, you know what's funny? when i was digging for CP's post on brady v manning earlier today...i saw you said the same thing back in 2011
laugh.gif


i figured the Paul in his name was for St. Paul, MN or something...but it's easier to call people by something in their SN. like we call him Paul or 651...or call dudes CP or Pro even though we might know their names.
Thats funny.  I'm just trying to educate everyone. 
laugh.gif
  And thats a good point with SNs and us not knowing everyone's names.  I just bet you that the large majority of people think his name is Paul.
And I have no real connection to St. Paul, but used this as a screenname because I heard this line in a rap lyric from one of my dudes I played college with and rolled with it. I had no idea at the time I'd be the poster I am today and figured for a lurker, the name did not matter. I'm stuck with it now.
laugh.gif
Thats funny because, I too, signed up for NT with no real intentions of being a regular poster.  I actually lurked for years prior to signing up. I just used part of my name and my favorite number.  Obviously, its way too late to change now.
 
I almost want to say its a Mike Leach approach to offense and spatial awareness. Also with the acronym of K.I.S.S. involved. It's really a simple scheme that uses the entire field to its advantage and lets Brady toss it to the spot that the defense is allowing him to throw. He gets rid of it quick and the tempo quick and reads decisive. That's obviously a dumbed down explanation, but it also gives some explanation why a few love to refer to Brady as a checkdown quarterback.

that's exactly what makes brady so effective and great tho. he doesn't need a guy with 4.3 speed or a 6'4" receiver that can just run fades all day. whether he has reche caldwell or randy moss...he wins. whether it's checkdowns for days to no name WRs or bombs to Moss...he wins. the guy can read a defense like no other and make due with what he has like no other. like a marino to a degree.

i am perfectly willing to concede that if you put a barrel 50 yards down the field, brady isn't going to hit the barrel as much as manning is. or brees even. but brady KNOWS he might not be able to hit that target, and that is what has made him into what he is today. he knows his limits and works within them. he knows the throws he can make, and he usually knows the ones he can't. peyton's raw talent might be on another level...but brady's mental aspect of the QB position is on another level. and that's why he's done what he's done, and why we're able to have this conversation.

I agree...And ultimately, it's what makes these debates so damn hard and impossible to come to a consensus.
 
You guys know his name isnt Paul right?  :lol:


Dland, you know what's funny? when i was digging for CP's post on brady v manning earlier today...i saw you said the same thing back in 2011 :lol:


i figured the Paul in his name was for St. Paul, MN or something...but it's easier to call people by something in their SN. like we call him Paul or 651...or call dudes CP or Pro even though we might know their names.


Thats funny.  I'm just trying to educate everyone.  :lol:   And thats a good point with SNs and us not knowing everyone's names.  I just bet you that the large majority of people think his name is Paul.

And I have no real connection to St. Paul, but used this as a screenname because I heard this line in a rap lyric from one of my dudes I played college with and rolled with it. I had no idea at the time I'd be the poster I am today and figured for a lurker, the name did not matter. I'm stuck with it now. :lol:
Thats funny because, I too, signed up for NT with no real intentions of being a regular poster.  I actually lurked for years prior to signing up. I just used part of my name and my favorite number.  Obviously, its way too late to change now.

I appreciate it. I'd rather be 651 over Paul, but that's my own damn fault.
 
I'm the same, I lurked for a while, never thinking I would ever actually post. (I was here for the Jordan forum)

Then one day I said I wonder what Sports and Training is........annnnnd I was ******. :lol: Been posting ever since.

Jordan stuff was just searchin out info, no need to talk to nobody, but sports, oh, I can type. Ohhhh, I can type. :nthat:

And I just call him 651, takes too long to get to the end of his SN to even know it says Paul. Just like nobody except Deuce actually types 1708 when speaking to me. :lol:
 
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silly me. i'll just go back to the zoo now.

:rofl:

easy to see when someone has run out of ammo

Ammo? ive explained how Cassels offense was second in points scored in another thread. your response was "context." How much more would they produce? a whole one step up in the afc? the offense was elite no matter what. Matt clearly isnt Tom, that goes without saying. But it is much easier to replace a brady in BB's system.
 
silly me. i'll just go back to the zoo now.

:rofl:

easy to see when someone has run out of ammo

Ammo? ive explained how Cassels offense was second in points scored in another thread. your response was "context." How much more would they produce? a whole one step up in the afc? the offense was elite no matter what. Matt clearly isnt Tom, that goes without saying. But it is much easier to replace a brady in BB's system.

2nd? you sure about that, zoo keeper?

cause 8th sounds better.

matt cassel took a lambo and turned it into an acura...whoop dee ******g doo. we missed the playoffs. scoring (another empty stat) alone means nothing. the patriots didn't win the division and missed the playoffs...that's as useful as **** on a nun. there's your context, master.

and nice try with, "first place schedule". you skimmed over AFC West, NFC West. where you play all four teams...not just the first place teams.
 
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