R.I.P Trayvon

doyung9 said:
LyonBC1 said:
^^there CLEARLY is if you don't see that you're blind or just in denial. If a black neighborhood watchman killed a white kid they would've been charged immediately. There was also the case of the woman who was using Stand your ground who fired a warning shot and is in prison for 20 yrs. there are probably several others to, to deny race is playing a role is straight up laughable
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And to say race is 100% the reason this happened is even more laughable.
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Never did I say it is 100% the reason did I?? If so please cite where you read that coming from me. I said it played a role
 
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doyung9 said:
Basically, that's all I'm trying to say. I don't think people understand that the purpose of the American Legal System is to make the best decision with the actual facts provided and use a little amount of speculation necessary, if any.

I'm not dense nor naive, of course, it's ridiculous to think George Zimmerman or anyone else on this planet doesn't have their predispositions about black people, white people, fat people, short people, ugly people, pretty girls, juiced up guys, nba players, criminals etc.

But there is ZERO PROOF that he shot Trayvon Martin because he's black. I really wish people would let that go.

This is about whether Zimmerman was inside his rights to shoot Trayvon Martin. That's it. And if Trayvon did in fact go BACK toward Zimmerman and instigated the confrontation, then there's not much else to say.
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I try to look at it for what it is unbias and look at what is presented at hand. I do know gz has contradicted and lied on numerous occasions. But how it plays into his actions and what happened is an entire different story.

I will say one thing the defense, are and have in most part done a hell of a job. The prosecution however damn near sound like court appointed attorneys.
 
doyung9 said:
Elpablo21 said:
When was it confirmed as fact Trayvon went back towards Zimmerman and instigated the confrontation?
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I haven't been following as closely as others, but I believe that's part of the defense's current argument. Also, I believe the girl whom was on the phone with Martin confirmed him saying he had made it back to the house. By default, that means he left again.

For the longest, I was under the impression of "he never made it home"... but if that's not true, I don't have any sympathy for him other than the fact that no one deserves to die over anything so stupid.

I have walked BACK into confrontations in numerous settings; work, school, bars, etc... and everytime, I always have to remind myself that I walked away for a reason. Going back always, always results in trouble. And before people jump down my throat for my "don't have any sympathy" comment, like I said, I've done stupid **** like this before. (by stupid ****, I mean puffing my chest out to prove a point).

If Trayvon Martin made it back to his house, left, and ran into Zimmerman again, he was looking for Zimmerman. That's a more plausible assumption than:

"Punk" = "Black"
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Thx for the info, I havent seen much info about him making it back home and coming back out.

They're going for the acquittal? Feels like a reach.
 
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doyung9 said:
I'm not going to go back and forth with you or anyone else, because I frankly don't have the time, but a few things.

1. You cannot say with any certainty that his skin color had anything to do with this. There is a reason banks and other establishments ask for hat, sunglasses, and HOODS be removed before entering. Hooded pullovers, when pulled over your head, offer significant cover from recognition. Unlike you, I'm not going to assume I know what George Zimmerman would have done to a "white man in a suit" (funny how quick some people are to throw that term out there) or in a polo.

2. You're creating most of these "implications". "Punk" does not mean black. From what he said, NOT WHAT YOU THINK HE SAID OR THINK HE MEANT BY WHAT HE SAID, punk is referring to who always gets away in that neighborhood, which by PROVEN CONTEXT OF THE CONVERSATION, can only be traced back to the burglars who'd been breaking in that neighborhood.

3. You're over here reaching, like most people, because deep down inside, anytime something happens to someone "black", it's gotta be racism right? Can't be anything else. Meanwhile, YOU'RE BEING EXTREMELY RACIST AND PRESUMPTUOUS by convincing yourself of facts about this case that are merely your theories. And why?

Because just like the idiot I spoke to yesterday who told me "life is about assuming things in life", in regards to this same topic, YOUR PERSONAL ASSUMPTIONS IN REGARDS TO THIS CASE ARE BLINDING YOU TO WHAT'S ON PAPER.
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1. No one can say anything with Certainty... :rolleyes TM wasn't at a bank, or on private property with a dress code. He was in a place that he had a legal right to be. Whether or not his clothes made GZ uncomfortable is COMPLETELY based on GZ's personal prejudices. And as far as the suit, I honestly don't think it would've mattered if the man was white or black, the suit implicates socioeconomic status, I believe that GZ's prejudice was based on race and socioeconomic status. No one knows tho, unless they can read his thoughts... that's why you view the circumstances.

2. Punk does not mean black. True. But he states "these punks always get away" and states that TM was black... who are "these punks" lets not be naive. That was the context...

3. Stuff happens to black people all the time that is entirely their fault, But, if you live in America and don't see the clear prejudice that exist then you are truly sheltered. Just look at the disproportionate sentences that african americans receive compared to other races for the exact same crimes. GZ's preconceived notions and prejudices were clear in his decision to follow TM. Now GZ was well in his right to follow TM, but you're not being serious if you don't think his personal prejudices were at play. I'm not implying he's a Klan leader, but race was certainly a factor.

To address your last statement... This is a discussion board, I'm here to discuss and share my opinions and listen and hear others. Many in here do a tremendous job of having an opinion without getting worked up. You are writing in all caps and personally calling me a racist. It seems, you are letting your emotions get the best of you. And of course I'm stating my theories. No one was there, everything is a theory, from the medical examiners to what the jury perceives. :lol:
 
shoelyesses said:
in most part I agree with the exception of race. Race, religion, sex and money is the cornerstone and pretty much the root to any and every aspect of everything. Its the reason we have wars, hell it is the motivation of everything be it good or bad in the world.

We don't know if it had all to do with his race, but his race indeed was a factor, it is equally absurd to think we live in a colorblind society, or to think he was a colorblind individual. This is not to say his sole purpose reasoning was based on race and only race. But based on testimony and the fact a large majority of the previous burglaries were young to middle aged black males, the fact that he fit this description did resonate in his mind.

We cant say well if  he was white/Asian/Spanish etc... how would he have responded because it is to many factors to definitively say if he was white he would've did this or that.
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make sweeping statements much?
 
Because there is none. He pulled all of that out of his ***. If Martin made it home and came back out, this case may have been over already. There has been nothing of substance offered during the trial that says that. :rolleyes



And if you don't think race played a big part you may be slow. He on the phone profiling him. He's called the cops on black children before. Come on.
 
about the punk thing, lets be real. People arent just going to come out and call you the n-word. So they find other words to use. Thug, punk etc.
 
Superb said:
u do know right that his dad was a magistrate in a totally other state then florida right?
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yes but that still doesn't mean he never met or talked to others. Like I stated in reference to myself and military. I have had connections or "juice" if you will with other military companies and what not just off the fact of my years in and my rank.

Do I think his father has any pull or "juice" to directly affect the verdict NO!!!!!!! But I think his father played a key role in getting him the best representation, representation he felt would provide the best counsel for his son. I do believe his father to be a excellent reference point, in regards to how to take on the case, court decorum etc....

In other words I don't think his title hurt him at all.
 
HarlemToTheBronx said:
He made it home and came back out to confront Zimmerman? Source?
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This. If this is the case, I missed it. Unless dude has knowledge of stuff the rest of the world doesn't.

I'd argue that Trayvon had every right to confront George. He was standing HIS ground because he felt threatened and in imminent danger. Why doesn't the law apply there?
 
shoelyesses said:
timbo109 said:
make sweeping statements much?
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how so name me one factor in life in any aspect where race, money, religion, sex has absolutely no bearings.
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Yeah it's pretty naive to think otherwise, we all have engrained biases even If its only to a small degree. Hell even things like height and general appearance (tattoos, piercings, etc.) are used to pre judge people before having meaningful interactions
 
DWalk31 said:
1. No one can say anything with Certainty...
eyes.gif
TM wasn't at a bank, or on private property with a dress code. He was in a place that he had a legal right to be. Whether or not his clothes made GZ uncomfortable is COMPLETELY based on GZ's personal prejudices. And as far as the suit, I honestly don't think it would've mattered if the man was white or black, the suit implicates socioeconomic status, I believe that GZ's prejudice was based on race and socioeconomic status. No one knows tho, unless they can read his thoughts... that's why you view the circumstances.

2. Punk does not mean black. True. But he states "these punks always get away" and states that TM was black... who are "these punks" lets not be naive. That was the context...

3. Stuff happens to black people all the time that is entirely their fault, But, if you live in America and don't see the clear prejudice that exist then you are truly sheltered. Just look at the disproportionate sentences that african americans receive compared to other races for the exact same crimes. GZ's preconceived notions and prejudices were clear in his decision to follow TM. Now GZ was well in his right to follow TM, but you're not being serious if you don't think his personal prejudices were at play. I'm not implying he's a Klan leader, but race was certainly a factor.

To address your last statement... This is a discussion board, I'm here to discuss and share my opinions and listen and hear others. Many in here do a tremendous job of having an opinion without getting worked up. You are writing in all caps and personally calling me a racist. It seems, you are letting your emotions get the best of you. And of course I'm stating my theories. No one was there, everything is a theory, from the medical examiners to what the jury perceives.
laugh.gif
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And their lies the problem... ppl try so hard to be unbias, and appear colorblind, and completely absolved of any racial/sexual preference or bias that they actually appear bias/prejudice and in many times racist.

Ppl try to be so socially pr and pc, that often times their words/actions come across rather foolish and unrealistic...or completely sheltered from the real world.  
 
Im black and in my nice suburb neighboorhood i watch all races that dont look like they belong there. Mostly white since there arent much blacks out where i sty too even walk through.

So yea if I see a white person that doesnt look or belong in my area then yes I will be on alert same as black folks as well
 
superblyTRIFE said:
HarlemToTheBronx said:
He made it home and came back out to confront Zimmerman? Source?
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This. If this is the case, I missed it. Unless dude has knowledge of stuff the rest of the world doesn't.

I'd argue that Trayvon had every right to confront George. He was standing HIS ground because he felt threatened and in imminent danger. Why doesn't the law apply there?
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Nobody has yet to answer this
 
superblyTRIFE said:
This. If this is the case, I missed it. Unless dude has knowledge of stuff the rest of the world doesn't.

I'd argue that Trayvon had every right to confront George. He was standing HIS ground because he felt threatened and in imminent danger. Why doesn't the law apply there?
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Actually there is evidence though circumstantial maybe. If you follow the timing which is possible due to the fact that Zimmerman was on the phone with police dispatch most of the time, Martin had sufficient time to get to Brandy's Green townhouse and lock himself up safely inside. As the girl Martin was speaking to on the phone testified, he did get within a house or two of the townhouse. That townhouse is the last on a long row. The fight occurred at the far other end of the row. Thus, Martin had to double back to get to that place. The only other possibilities are that Martin hid in waiting or he ran around like a chicken with its head cut off, going in circles.
 
Well that's contingent on the idea that Zimmerman's claims that he was walking back to his car and was ambushed is false, which hasn't been proven.

So state rests and the defense's motion for dismissal is going. Where do yall think this is headed?

I don't see 2nd degree as happening at all. Less certain on manslaughter
 
Superb said:
Im black and in my nice suburb neighboorhood i watch all races that dont look like they belong there. Mostly white since there arent much blacks out where i sty too even walk through.

So yea if I see a white person that doesnt look or belong in my area then yes I will be on alert same as black folks as well
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do you follow them around or call the cops on them? Do you approach them and ask what they are doing there?
 
Ok so has the state rested its case what's going on? I haven't been able to keep up with the trial today
 
superblyTRIFE said:
I'd argue that Trayvon had every right to confront George. He was standing HIS ground because he felt threatened and in imminent danger. Why doesn't the law apply there?
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Trayvon had every right to verbally confront George.  Being followed does NOT give you the right to physically confront/assault someone.  If Trayvon felt that he was in imminent danger, he had a cell phone and could of dialed 911.   
 
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