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***OFFICIAL NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS SEASON THREAD*** (13-4) - Patriots @ Broncos - Sun 3:05PM EST - Brady v Manning XVII - Page 58

post #1711 of 5799
Mike Reiss had his weekly chat today and said as far as the Dobson situation he heard from 2 sources that it was less about him mouthing off and more about him struggling to get open during practices so who knows

He also quoted something that Mike Lombardi previously said which I thought was interesting
Quote:
This might be the biggest issue, Bob, and I'm reminded of something that current Patriots assistant to the coaching staff Michael Lombardi once said during his time working in the media: The Patriots have to be careful of not having a similar situation to what unfolded with Miami with Dan Marino in his latter years. The playbook had become so thick, and once veteran receivers Mark Duper/Mark Clayton weren't around, Marino didn't have anyone else to rely upon because it was so hard for the young guys to pick up. I wonder if that's exactly what we're seeing.
post #1712 of 5799
Thread Starter 
^ good quote. and definitely makes sense a bit. maybe that's what it looks like we're running a dumbed down offense at the moment as well.
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post #1713 of 5799
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 31m31 minutes ago
The locker room was much more lively today than yesterday. Vince Wilfork, Darrelle Revis among players who have said they've moved on.

Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 24m24 minutes ago
Revis: "We’re very upbeat. It’s been a short week this week, and we made the corrections and moved #OnToCincinnati."

Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 10m10 minutes ago
Revis: "You’ve just got to move on. It was an embarrassment, yes it was, but at the same time, we’ve got to put it in the past."
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post #1714 of 5799
Thread Starter 
Quote:
BzCVUtwIcAEOjDd.png:large


something isn't right. the team RARELY comes out with statements like this. brace yourselves...bout to get bumpy laugh.gif
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post #1715 of 5799
This season is weird
post #1716 of 5799
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 25m25 minutes ago
I spoke to Dobson for a couple minutes. He heard about the story, immediately spoke to Belichick about it to express concern.

Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 24m24 minutes ago
Belichick told Dobson he had his back and would release a statesmen to "kill the story, Dobson said.
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post #1717 of 5799
I have to admit, I'm way too emotionally invested in the state of the New England Patriots. These last two weeks have really rustled my jimmies. There's so many thoughts running through my head as it pertains to this team.

1) Everyone and their mother had the Patriots being a championship contender this year. Everyone was excited about acquiring Revis and Browner. Writers said the Patriots FO was doing their due diligence in acquiring these two cornerbacks. Revis was going to be the shutdown guy, and Browner was going to be the physical corner. BB was getting praised for holding off on giving Talib a big contract and signing a better corner to a better deal (Revis) . Now that things haven't looked so great 25% into the season, everyone wants to highlight the negative moves made by the FO in the last decade. I think BB has done a great job putting together a competitive roster year after year. Since 2001, the Patriots have been in five Super Bowls. FIVE. It's frustrating to see how quick people turn heel when things don't go as planned right away.

2) It seems the downfall of the Patriots has been exaggerated/accelerated because folks are eager to finally close the door on the Patriots being a Super Bowl contender; something that has held true for the last decade and a half. When it comes to slandering the Patriots, the thirst is real, and that's something that I can understand. Hopefully Patriots fans are keeping a level head and realizing that the season is still young. I still believe this is a Super Bowl caliber roster . A Super Bowl caliber TEAM ? We'll see .

3) In a place located in the deepest, darkest depths of my soul, I almost feel relieved the Patriots are perceived as buns. It almost takes the pressure off. Expecting your team to go 16-0 every year and win the Super Bowl is some stressful ****. Maybe getting home field throughout isn't the path of least resistance. Maybe they need to sneak into the playoffs and make a run, ala Eli . The NFL is weird .

4) Brady is not buns. His offensive line is buns. He has no receivers who are strong/physical enough to break tackles and get that extra yardage. Brady has looked terrible as of late; but he is still a living legend and is still more than good enough to win a Super Bowl.

This upcoming game is one of the biggest regular season game the Patriots have had in years . I still don''t believe in the Bengals. Maybe it's because I have been conditioned to see the Patriots blow teams out , but I have the Patriots winning 28 to 17 Sunday night.
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post #1718 of 5799
i think sports writers can be bitter people
when what happens to the pats or the pats play differently than expected - the writers turn on them because they look like they don't know what they're talking about/writing about


i believe that is in part why the brett favre story turned out the way it did - and i ain't even a fan of his
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post #1719 of 5799
great post NooEra

1. I agree 100% about BBs moves this offseason ; a lot of people are playing monday morning QB based off of 4 games . not to mention Browner hasnt played 1 snap in the reg season , and other than the Chiefs game our defense has been sound . Bill DOES however deserve some slack for the moves hes made once the preseason started , and the offensive moves he has made . letting Tommy Kelly go ? trading Mankins for Tim Wright who can barely get on the field , knowing that Scarneccia is gone ? letting Woodhead go ? there was a stat they put up about offensive players we missed that was shocking -- we couldve gotten keenan allen instead of dobson , and i believe it was vincent jackson instead of some other buns receiver we selected

2. people are very quick to try and say the Patrots run is over , but surprisingly the criticism has been fairly rational and come with a strong defense of Tom Brady . i wouldve assumed it would be centered around Brady being done , but instead its about the O line and BBs moves -- or lack thereof -- with regards to giving Brady pieces

3. also agree here . it feels nice to have the pressure off , and to be in a situation that forces the team to really look at what the issues and problems are . although im a bit worried , part of me is excited to see what the guys are made of and what kind of resiliency they have . i want to see a Patriots team on Sunday against the Bengals play with an anger and fire that I haven't seen since the 45-3 Jets route 3 years ago

4. also agree . Greg Cosell had a great little quote about Brady this year , and how the question of whether or not he is done isnt even valid . he said that without Brady , the Patriots probably have the LEAST talented offense in all of the NFL , and that his play is indicative of him perceiving and expecting constant pressure . obviously any QB who isnt very mobile will have a dip in production and efficiency given those circumstances
post #1720 of 5799
Thread Starter 
yeah NooEra...good stuff. i agree with most of it for sure.

on BB...i feel like heading into this year they definitely tried to add some big pieces and i think it's still too early to write off the Revis signing. we've also yet to see Browner. but offensively, i feel like it's too little and too late. knowing how long receivers take to get acclimated in our system, they really needed to add an offensive threat a 2-3 years ago. and as soon as Hernandez got nailed, something needed to be done. but nothing was done. as much as BB gets credit for keeping this team competitive, i think just as much credit goes to TB12. he covers up a TON of shortcomings on this team, or at least used to be able to. now at 37 years old, he can't. it's understandable and it shows. i mean you look at what Denver did on BOTH sides of the ball for their aging QB and then you look at what we did, and it's like, what the ****? we just have not done enough on the offensive side of the ball to help give Brady a good chance out there.
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post #1721 of 5799
Thread Starter 
i know it's Skip and everyone hates Skip, but.....


Quote:
Nothing new in New England
All signs point to another good year for the Patriots

Originally Published: October 3, 2014
By Skip Bayless | ESPN.com

Go ahead and hate, haters.

Celebrate the downfall of Coach Condescending and Tom Terrific. Please convince yourselves it's finally safe to write off Bill Belichick and Tom Brady just four games into a season.

Let me hear you, Doubting Toms: Brady finally got old! He lost his zip, aim and nerve! Belichick hastened his demise by providing a sorry offensive line and sorrier receivers! Die, dynasty, die!

Now hear me: The New England Patriots will rise like the phoenix from the ashes of Monday night's 41-14 loss in Kansas City and land at the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, Arizona, playing in Super Bowl XLIX. This will begin Sunday night in Foxborough, Massachusetts, when New England defeats unbeaten Cincinnati 24-21.

Go ahead, laugh.

While you can.

The Patriots, who lead the NFL in Jealousy Generated, soon will shut up skeptics from sea to doubting sea. Here are 12 reasons No. 12 will lead them to yet another 12-4 record ...

Beware the NFL's red herring game

It's doubtful the 1985 Bears would have beaten the Chiefs in that stadium on that night. Twelfth Man Seahawks fans still generate the loudest media hype, but Chiefs fans again set the decibel record for an outdoor stadium, inspiring their team to play (and their coaches to coach) a near-perfect game.

I'll be the first to admit the Patriots looked miss-the-playoffs hapless in every phase -- couldn't run or pass or stop the run or the pass. But it appeared Brady's offense (with rookie starters at center and guard) underestimated how much the record decibels would disrupt execution, and Belichick's defense was caught flat-footed by many of K.C. coach Andy Reid's creative wrinkles. Shame on Belichick.

But bad quickly turned into misleading worse.

Result: hilarious overreaction to yet another of the NFL's addictively astonishing outcomes, such as Tennessee 26, Chiefs 10 in that same stadium on opening afternoon; Carolina 24, Detroit 7; Giants 45, at Washington 14; Atlanta 56, Tampa Bay 14 followed by last Sunday's visiting Tampa Bay 27, Pittsburgh 24.

Wait, with Brady still reasonably healthy, bettors are jumping off New England's bandwagon as if this is a stock-market panic, plunging the spread an insane four points? The Pats, who opened as a three-point favorite, are now a one-point underdog? If I were a betting man ...

Bottoms up

I'm certainly not suggesting Belichick scripted this debacle, but it will serve as the perfect launching pad for a team many predicted would make it to the Super Bowl or at least to the AFC title game for the fourth straight season. I predicted Seattle over New England in the Super Bowl, and I am loving all the preposterous doom-saying reverberating on TV and radio. The Patriots will NOT love it. Advantage: Belichick.

As Brady said Wednesday, his teams have always had the ability to "grind it out" when things look bleak -- to figure it out on the fly, lead the league in instant ingenuity. Brady emphasized that "we have a lot of high-character individuals in the locker room." Do they ever. And now that locker room is embarrassed and angry and hyper-focused and ready to play with what San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich calls "appropriate fear." (The Spurs and Patriots organizations have modeled themselves after each other.)

Beware the Patriots coming off an all-time, big-stage humiliation returning to prime time Sunday night to take on the 3-0 Bengals, who beat them 13-6 in the rain in Cincinnati last season. This team (like Florida State in college football) is so much better than it has played.

Tom Brady/Tom Hardy

Brady reminds me a little of Tom Hardy's Oscar-worthy portrayal of Bob Saginowski in James Gandolfini's final movie, "The Drop." Bob is a nice, polite, easygoing guy ... who will shoot you in the face if he has to. Brady is at his greatest when he plays mad -- when he hits Rob Gronkowski with a touchdown pass and runs all the way to the end zone to helmet-butt him in a jarringly maniacal celebration. We're about to see Angry Brady thanks to Belichick.

I was surprised at how surprised (to the point of outrage) ESPN's Steve Young and Trent Dilfer were after Monday night's game that Belichick yanked Brady after Brady threw the interception returned for a touchdown that made it 41-7 with 10:34 left. Young said Brady should've been allowed to "clean up the mess." Brady didn't exactly sound pleased with the decision, saying, "I do what I'm told."

I would have been surprised if Belichick hadn't taken him out. Imagine the backlash if Brady had gotten hurt in the final 10 minutes of what was looking like the worst blowout ever suffered in the Belichick era.

But if Brady is starting to boil because he was benched ... advantage: Belichick.

Collective amnesia

Young was equally passionate in his defense of Brady before the game, when he criticized the Patriots organization for not giving Brady enough help to "attack the Super Bowl."

Sorry, I have no sympathy for Tom Brady, BECAUSE HE'S TOM BRADY. Last season, the Patriots scored the NFL's third-most points -- while Gronkowski missed nine games, including the 43-22 playoff win over Andrew Luck's Colts. I made the case all season on "First Take" that Brady should be MVP because his go-to receiver was a seventh-round pick who was a college QB, Julian Edelman, who will never invite Randy Moss comparisons.

So Belichick didn't cheat Brady by allocating far more money for positions other than receiver. He paid homage to him. Or maybe, like some Pats fans, he was just spoiled by him. Why wouldn't Belichick believe Brady could repeat last year's feat?

With Gronkowski trying to return from knee, back and elbow surgeries, Belichick did sign Brandon LaFell, who became a Brady favorite during camp. So this offense can begin to click like last season if ...

Brady recommits to strangely underutilized targets

Word is Brady is down on Danny Amendola, who's still capable of filling Wes Welker's jitterbugging shoes. Brady, I'm told, has become less and less impressed with Amendola's football IQ and unwillingness to play with minor injuries. Amendola had two 10-catch games last season. He now has three catches in four games. That must change, and will now.

So must this: Second-year receivers Aaron Dobson and Kenbrell Thompkins were healthy inactives Monday night. Huh? The Boston Globe reported Dobson has been in coordinator Josh McDaniel's doghouse. Has Thompkins been in Brady's?

Both have some deep speed. Both had their moments last season. If both are now blended back into the passing attack, it will start looking much more explosive. Ditto Shane Vereen, who had a 10-catch game and two eight-catch games last season. So far: two five-catch games.

Brady still has enough weapons, if he's desperate enough to use them. Even Brady can't pull off routinely forcing passes to a double-covered Edelman.

Gronk will start to Gronk

The only good sign Monday night was Gronkowski's late catch and bulldoze for a TD.

Brandon Browner is finally eligible

He's coming off a PED suspension to join the great Darrelle Revis at cornerback in what could turn into a secondary rivaling Seattle's.

Collective amnesia II

Just last season, a Pats defense that lost Vince Wilfork for the last 12 games and Jerod Mayo for the last 10 -- and that did not have Revis or Browner -- managed to get New England to the AFC title game. This defense will get much better than last year's.

Belichick will soon be proved right about trading offensive guard and leader Logan Mankins

In Belichick you must trust. In 2003 the world pretty much ended when he released Lawyer Milloy -- and New England won the Super Bowl. In 2005, Belichick released Ty Law and still won the division. In 2009, he traded Richard Seymour and Mike Vrabel ... division champs. In 2010, he traded Randy Moss and finished with the NFL's best record, 14-2.

The offensive line won't keep offending fans

The Pats used an unheard-of five line combinations Monday night. Utter desperation. But watch Belichick find the right fit and watch rookies Bryan Stork and Cameron Fleming start to play like vets. Belichick deemed Mankins disposable because he saw something in these kids.

The East is no beast

Second-year QB EJ Manuel was just demoted in Buffalo. Many Jets fans would like to see second-year QB Geno Smith demoted. It sounded as though Miami coach Joe Philbin at least considered demoting a struggling Ryan Tannehill last week. Advantage: Belichick.

The Pats are 2-2, not 2-12

Under Belichick, they've started 2-2 three times, finishing 14-2 in 2003, 10-6 in 2005 and 12-4 two years ago. They have four of the next five games at home.

So you had better laugh now. Belichick nearly always laughs last, behind closed doors.
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post #1722 of 5799
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Mike Reiss @MikeReiss
Patriots waived WR Kenbrell Thompkins today and promoted LB Ja'Gared Davis from the practice squad.


indifferent.gif x 100
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post #1723 of 5799

:x 

Promotion of LB Ja'Gared Davis from PS addresses special teams void w/ core player Nate Ebner out, as well as depth at thin spot on D-Mike Reiss

 

Was it really that serious of a problem or was Kenbrell just bad?:{ He was actually the other guy opposite Edelman who made plays, I just can't believe he was that bad enough to be waived.

  •  

 

Browner and Tyms will also be inactive Sunday according to Reiss

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post #1724 of 5799
Thread Starter 
it makes no ******* sense at all...it's almost like they're looking for ways to sabotage the team so we struggle, brady looks bad, and then they can trade brady and save money by playing Jimmy G. i'm reaching obviously, but that's what it looks like.
Quote:
Marc Bertrand @Marc_Bertrand
"I have a lot of confidence in him, a lot of trust. He’s a great guy. It’s fun to be out there with him." - TB12 on Thompkins in July.

Edited by DeadsetAce - 10/4/14 at 2:37pm
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post #1725 of 5799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce View Post

it makes no ******* sense at all...it's almost like they're looking for ways to sabotage the team so we struggle, brady looks bad, and then they can trade brady and save money by playing Jimmy G. i'm reaching obviously, but that's what it looks like.

it almost feels like that with what's going on in Foxboro especially with Brady getting the call to sit on the bench, it's little but that doesn't happen with Brady at ALL, I'm just going to take this day to day, hopefully Tyms can be a good asset to us. 

 

Let's get this win Sunday:hat

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post #1726 of 5799
Thread Starter 
^ yeah for sure. according to our main beat writer, this move was some sort of message sending to the team to get focused and get it together:
Quote:
Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
I thought earlier this week, based on the loss, Belichick could release a bigger name to send a message. He surely did that w/ Thompkins.
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post #1727 of 5799
Pretty bummed out at KT's release,he never really got a chance to do much this season. Hopefully Dobson and Tyms can pick up the slack. Hopefully the team responds well to whichever message BB is trying to send.
post #1728 of 5799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce View Post

it makes no ******* sense at all...it's almost like they're looking for ways to sabotage the team so we struggle, brady looks bad, and then they can trade brady and save money by playing Jimmy G. i'm reaching obviously, but that's what it looks like.
Quote:
Marc Bertrand @Marc_Bertrand
"I have a lot of confidence in him, a lot of trust. He’s a great guy. It’s fun to be out there with him." - TB12 on Thompkins in July.

nah that's what it looks like :{

 

like I've stated before.......I'm a Brady fan first and this **** has me livid. I get on a ******* gambling site and see we cut KT. 

 

I DONT ******* GET IT

 

I never thought I would get more frustrated than when my canes started losing but this season has been bugging the **** outta me 

post #1729 of 5799

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce View Post

^ yeah for sure. according to our main beat writer, this move was some sort of message sending to the team to get focused and get it together:

 

Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
I thought earlier this week, based on the loss, Belichick could release a bigger name to send a message. He surely did that w/ Thompkins.

 

I REALLY hope that's not what this is about.

 

You get drummed on national TV and the message sent is cutting a guy whom you deactivated for that game?!? WUT.

 

I'm sure that's going to fly real well with the team.

 

:{

 

Their results vs. the Bengals isn't going to make or break this season, but the Pats gotta show the **** out tomorrow to stray away from this dark cloud hovering over them. Can't think of a game in recent years that means so much this early in a season.

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post #1730 of 5799
Man this is one of the weirdest seasons in a min mean.gif
post #1731 of 5799
indifferent.gif these dudes can't be serious indifferent.gif
post #1732 of 5799
Thread Starter 
that report by Mort a few minutes ago is scary/annoying.

cliffs:

- Brady not happy with personnel changes and current coaching (scheme, playbook, etc)
- Brady not being allowed to have as much input into the game plan and not being allowed to change plays at the line
- the team planning to swap Brady out for Pretty Jimmy sooner rather than later (start of next year)

that second point is the most scary IMO...makes no sense
Edited by DeadsetAce - 10/5/14 at 9:58am
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post #1733 of 5799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce View Post

that report by Mort a few minutes ago is scary/annoying.

cliffs:

- Brady not happy with personnel changes and current coaching (scheme, playbook, etc)
- Brady not being allowed to have as much input into the game plan and not being allowed to change plays at the line
- the team planning to swap Brady out for Pretty Jimmy sooner rather than later (start of next year)

that second point is the most scary IMO...makes no sense

:|:| has bill just lost it or he's not a believer? that's where I stand 

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post #1734 of 5799
Thread Starter 
^ it's Bill's pride that's getting in the way


here's the Mort report:
Quote:

Tension may impact Brady's future

Updated: October 5, 2014, 1:31 PM ET
By Chris Mortensen | ESPN

Brady Uncomfortable With Patriots' Changes
Chris Mortensen discusses the tension between Tom Brady and the Patriots' coaching staff, which may influence whether Brady finishes his career in New England.
Tags: NFL, Tom Brady, New England Patriots

Tension exists between Tom Brady and the New England Patriots' coaching staff, and multiple sources told ESPN that they believe it could influence whether the quarterback finishes his career with the team that he has led to three Super Bowl titles.

Two sources told ESPN that former rookie quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo was drafted as Brady's successor and the move could happen "sooner than later." No source suggested that "sooner" would mean a change during the 2014 season.

Much of Brady's frustration relates to the downsizing of the Patriots offense that stems from questionable personnel decisions and the retirement of longtime line coach Dante Scarnecchia after the 2013 season, the sources told ESPN.

With Pro Bowl guard Logan Mankins being traded before the season, the line now coached by Dave DeGuglielmo is so inexperienced that Brady's input into game plans, personnel groups and pre-snap adjustments has significantly diminished.

One team source told ESPN that a conservative approach is necessary and said everyone needs to be patient to allow the team and staff to get on the same page. Brady's declining performance also has been cited internally, a source told ESPN.

Nevertheless, the circumstances have affected Brady's confidence and performance, sources told ESPN, and the Patriots have had little success providing the talent needed to execute the team's previous approach -- a complex scheme that can change dramatically on a weekly basis.

The team's draft history also is under fire. The Patriots have used 11 draft picks on receivers since 2002 and only two -- Deion Branch and former college quarterback Julian Edelman -- have made any impact. The signing of Danny Amendola as a slot-receiver replacement for Wes Welker has proven to be a failure, too.

Even though Patriots coach Bill Belichick chuckled when asked Monday night about Brady's status, more than one source told ESPN that "nobody is untouchable."

Brady has stated publicly he wants to play another four or five years, at least. Sources close to the quarterback told ESPN that remains true but acknowledge that his career may end with another franchise unless Patriots owner Robert Kraft intercedes.
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post #1735 of 5799
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce View Post

^ it's Bill's pride that's getting in the way


here's the Mort report:

wtf-animated.gif

Gonna be a real travesty if Bill's ego gets in the way of Brady retiring a Pat mean.gif
post #1736 of 5799
Thread Starter 
^ exactly how i feel. i'm so done with belichick
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post #1737 of 5799
Bill think he emperor Palpatine and found Luke in the draft mean.gifmean.gif
post #1738 of 5799

The Mortenson report falls right in line with what I've been thinking for months and saying on here. If you read between the lines from certain actions & words with management and pick up on the chatter from people who know what's going on with the team...then it shouldn't surprise you.

 

Tom Brady will not end his career with the Patriots and it will not be an amicable divorce.

 

I remember Albert Breer was on the radio this past summer and dropped a TON of gems answering a throwaway question in a regular segment. One of those gems was on the Belichick & Brady dynamic going into the future. Since Bill is such a historian and genuinely cares about that stuff so much, he secretly wants to win another SB without Tom so his career could be looked at in a more favorable light. He said this BEFORE the Mankins trade, too.

 

When Bill drafted Pretty Jimmy in the 2nd Round...he brought up Tom's age & "contract situation" (WUT?) at that time. That **** was completely out of left field for him. 

 

That's why I feel like this Bengals game is so crucial. A good performance at home vs. an AFC contender should keep away a lot of the negativity that's surrounding this team right now. They have to start believing in themselves and the coaching staff if they want to do anything of importance this season.

…Veni, Vidi, Vici...

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…Veni, Vidi, Vici...

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post #1739 of 5799
Thread Starter 
yeah i remember him making the comment about winning after Brady is done. at the time i thought it legitimately meant after Brady retires...not prematurely dumping him of a couple picks or whatever. **** is sad
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Boston Bruins | New England Patriots | Boston Red Sox | Georgetown Hoyas | Michigan Wolverines |
Arsenal FC | Huevos Rancheros Hockey | USMNT
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post #1740 of 5799
If the reports are true,Bill's coming out looking like an extremely selfish and spiteful person. I really hope they do get a W for the sake of this season so that some of the pressure and tension that's been building up dissipates but man it's definitely not an enviable situation to be in right now tired.gif. I always thought it'd be unthinkable to get rid of Brady but if Peyton ******* Manning can get cut than anything can happen ohwell.gif.

Really hoping they can slowly rebuild some of that lost trust.
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NikeTalk › NikeTalk Forums › The Lounge › Sports & Training › ***OFFICIAL NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS SEASON THREAD*** (13-4) - Patriots @ Broncos - Sun 3:05PM EST - Brady v Manning XVII